Dueling and Unarmed Strikes

[Ziegander]

Since unarmed strikes do not count as weapons I assume Dueling can't be applied to them, no? Which is a shame. Assuming it did, would it be worth a one-level dip in Fighter to pick up the Dueling style as a Monk?

Would a Tavern Brawler Champion Fighter with the two-weapon fighting and dueling styles be worth considering?

[Easy_Lee]

Since unarmed strikes do not count as weapons I assume Dueling can't be applied to them, no? Which is a shame. Assuming it did, would it be worth a one-level dip in Fighter to pick up the Dueling style as a Monk?

Would a Tavern Brawler Champion Fighter with the two-weapon fighting and dueling styles be worth considering?

I believe this and the blade-pact warlock use are the two reasons why they felt the need to write that convoluted errata. You have it right, no unarmed + dueling. To your second question, no, a +2 damage boost is not worth sacrificing progression. To your third question, I don't think so. In the hands of anyone but a leveled monk, unarmed strike is at best a d4, which is nothing to get excited over. You could use a whip and get finesse and reach instead if you're willing to take a d4.

[Malifice]

Since unarmed strikes do not count as weapons I assume Dueling can't be applied to them, no? Which is a shame. Assuming it did, would it be worth a one-level dip in Fighter to pick up the Dueling style as a Monk?

Would a Tavern Brawler Champion Fighter with the two-weapon fighting and dueling styles be worth considering?

Both are pretty useless on a monk. You cant use dueling with unarmed strikes (however you could use it when wielding a single monk weapon wielded in one hand and using the martial arts class feature) and two weapon fighting is totally pointless with unarmed strikes as you add your ability modifier to damage when using the martial arts class feature anyway.

[EvilAnagram]

Since unarmed strikes do not count as weapons I assume Dueling can't be applied to them, no? Which is a shame. Assuming it did, would it be worth a one-level dip in Fighter to pick up the Dueling style as a Monk?
You'd get the +2 to damage so long as you stuck to a one-handed melee Monk weapon, but it wouldn't apply to any of your unarmed strikes, just the short sword. You'd essentially be forgoing a level in Monk to get a single +2 damage bonus per turn.


Would a Tavern Brawler Champion Fighter with the two-weapon fighting and dueling styles be worth considering?
That will not work.

If you want Dueling and unarmed strikes, be a Razorclaw Shifter. They can make an unarmed strike as a bonus action using Dex for the attack and damage, and if you take Tavern Brawler you'll get the 1d4 damage die. Use a rapier, and stay straight Fighter. You'll have the benefits of both Dueling and TWF, but you'll be able to take Defense instead of TWF for your second style.

Compare this build:

4 attack at 1d8+7 damage
1 attack at 1d4+5 damage
Average total of 55.5 damage


to a Two Weapon Fighting build:

5 attacks at 1d8+5 damage
Average total of 47.5 damage

[Ziegander]

:smallsigh:

Like, I said, assuming that dueling did apply to unarmed strikes, then would it be worth a level for +2 to every unarmed attack you make?

The Champion Fighter is not intended to be a multiclass with a Monk. It's a separate question. Again, if you could apply the dueling bonus to unarmed strikes, would a Tavern Brawling Champion with two-weapon fighting and dueling be worth consideration or would it be tremendously behind in damage output?

[Giant2005]

if you could apply the dueling bonus to unarmed strikes, would a Tavern Brawling Champion with two-weapon fighting and dueling be worth consideration or would it be tremendously behind in damage output?

Dueling and Two-Weapon Fighting are mutually exclusive - they cannot operate simultaneously, so no unless you want to have more fighting styles available to you (Which is inadvisable), having both isn't a good idea.
If Dueling applied to Unarmed Strikes, I think it would be worth dipping a single level of Fighter on a Monk though.

[EvilAnagram]

Like, I said, assuming that dueling did apply to unarmed strikes, then would it be worth a level for +2 to every unarmed attack you make?
You'd be taking a level for +8 damage per turn. I think that would be worth it, though by RAW that can't happen, as you know.


The Champion Fighter is not intended to be a multiclass with a Monk. It's a separate question. Again, if you could apply the dueling bonus to unarmed strikes, would a Tavern Brawling Champion with two-weapon fighting and dueling be worth consideration or would it be tremendously behind in damage output?
You're asking if two mutually exclusive options could stack, would they be worth it? Sure. Why not? They'd be right around normal TWF damage. It would average 47.5 damage.

[Ziegander]

You're asking if two mutually exclusive options could stack, would they be worth it? Sure. Why not? They'd be right around normal TWF damage. It would average 47.5 damage.

Yeah, I guess. I mean, if you're able to apply dueling to unarmed strikes, then I don't know that they are mutually exclusive anymore. In such a case, utilizing unarmed strikes would be the only possible way to combine both two-weapon fighting and dueling, wouldn't it? I just wondered if it would be worth it for any builds.

[Giant2005]

Yeah, I guess. I mean, if you're able to apply dueling to unarmed strikes, then I don't know that they are mutually exclusive anymore. In such a case, utilizing unarmed strikes would be the only possible way to combine both two-weapon fighting and dueling, wouldn't it? I just wondered if it would be worth it for any builds.

Dueling requires a melee weapon wielded in one hand and no other weapons. Two-handed fighting requires a melee weapon wielded in two hands.
Even if Unarmed Strike is benefiting from Dueling, those benefits would stop if the character was using a Two-handed weapon.

[EvilAnagram]

Yeah, I guess. I mean, if you're able to apply dueling to unarmed strikes, then I don't know that they are mutually exclusive anymore. In such a case, utilizing unarmed strikes would be the only possible way to combine both two-weapon fighting and dueling, wouldn't it? I just wondered if it would be worth it for any builds.

They are still mutually exclusive. The only way to marry Dueling to a bonus action attack with full damage is the Razorclaw Shifter build.

[djreynolds]

It is assumed you are kicking, head-butting, kneeing and throwing elbows. And your unarmed strikes go up in damage. And you can add dexterity to those strikes. Not a bad deal.

[PoeticDwarf]

Since unarmed strikes do not count as weapons I assume Dueling can't be applied to them, no? Which is a shame. Assuming it did, would it be worth a one-level dip in Fighter to pick up the Dueling style as a Monk?

Would a Tavern Brawler Champion Fighter with the two-weapon fighting and dueling styles be worth considering?

If you'er a high level monk, you can get 1lv 1 fighter if it works (the lv. 20 monk features isn't that good).

But it doesn't work. So you can better go for a level in warlock (hex) rogue (sneak attack) or something else for extra damage.
I'm a 14 monk 1 druid, but that was for fluff (entangle, create/destroy water, animal friendship are still all nice)