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GiantOctopodes
2015-07-14, 05:42 AM
So I didn't see a similar thread already, if there is one, awesome. The eventual concept is just that I want to put together a list of all options available to a Beastmaster for his animal companion, with some notes regarding their efficacy or lack thereof. This is very much a WIP and right now I'm just trying to get together all the options, so I can later add more meaningful analysis. If you are aware of a creature that qualifies (CR 1/4 or less, medium or smaller, beast) which is in a location other than the "Misc Creatures" appendix, please feel free to point out what and where it is! I'll be updating this post as we go along.

Baboon - Has a climb speed and pack tactics. Strictly worse than a Wolf other than the climb speed.
Badger - In theory, if you need a tiny (and thus relatively easy to conceal) companion with a burrow speed, this is your pick. Otherwise there is no reason not to go with a Giant Badger over this that I'm aware of.
Bat - Makes a better familiar than Animal Companion, the blindsight is the best range of any creature and it does have a fly speed, so there is some theoretical use as a scout.
Blood Hawk - Has Pack Tactics, and flies. Strictly better combat stats than the Vulture, but it can't be used as a mount, thus the lower ranking.
Boar - Potential Mount. Has relentless, which starts off great and gets worse as you get higher in levels. Otherwise it's strictly worse than the Wolf.
Cat - Again, a better familiar than a mount. No redeeming qualities, except possibly killing Wizards with housecats to keep the tradition alive.
Crab - Amphibious, good Blindsight, but there is no reason I can think of you would ever choose this over the Giant Crab.
Deer- Potential mount. Passable AC, but terrible to hit and damage. Redeemed somewhat by great speed, but not enough to make it competitive with the other options available.
Eagle - Strictly worse than the Blood Hawk.
Flying Snake - Same AC as a Giant Poisonous Snake and great damage, due in large part to not allowing a save against its poison damage. Has a flying speed, blindsight, a swim speed, and flyby attack prevent it from causing AoOs. Less effective against enemies immune to poison damage. For those who want a tiny Animal Companion, or a flying Animal Companion they don't intend to ride, by far the best option.
Frog - Can not attack. Do not pick this. If you want a frog or toad, grab a Giant Frog instead.
Giant Badger - Potential mount. It and its smaller variant are the only companions with Burrow speeds I am aware of. However, multiattack does not work with the Beastmaster's abilities. As a result, with its terrible AC and mediocre to hit bonuses, not the strongest combat option.
Giant Centipede - Climb speed, 30' Blindsight, decent damage due to poison. Compares unfavorably to the Giant Poisonous Snake.
Giant Crab - Potential Mount. The highest AC value I'm currently aware of for Animal Companions. Blindsight in a good range, a swim speed, amphibious and automatic grapple on a hit. A good option under any circumstances, the Giant Crab becomes fantastic in a heavily coastal or otherwise aquatic themed campaign, where he can drag those without swim speeds into the briny depths and provide transport for PCs that need it underwater, so long as they can hold their breath.
Giant Fire Beetle - It provides illumination, but beyond that questionable benefit, is no better than a housecat.
Giant Frog - Potential mount. Amphibious, good jump distance, but perhaps most importantly, it has the ability to swallow a target, with no listed means of them escaping short of the death of the creature, which is harder with the improved stats it gains as an Animal Companion. Pairs beautifully with the mechanical benefits provided by being an Animal Companion.
Giant Poisonous Snake - Potential Mount. Blindsight, 10' reach on attacks, great AC, the best to hit value I'm currently aware of, with attacks that cause great damage due to poison. Has a swim speed, and venom can be harvested from it for your own use. From a strictly Damage Per Round standpoint, the strongest choice in the game, and a pretty darn good choice for other considerations as well.
Giant Rat - Pack tactics. Strictly inferior to a Wolf.
Giant Weasel - Potential Mount. No discernible advantages compared to other choices for a mount.
Giant Wolf Spider - Potential Mount. Blindsight, (minor) poison damage, spider climb, web walker, good stealth scores, and paralysis for up to an hour in very specific circumstances all combine to make a unique, powerful, and flavorful animal companion.
Goat - Potential Mount. Sure footed has some minimal use, and combined with its charge attack it has at least some merit, but it is vastly inferior to the Wolf, amongst others.
Hawk Slightly better AC and to hit can't make up for inferior damage and the loss of pack tactics. You're better off with a Blood Hawk.
Hyena - Potential Mount. Pack tactics. Strictly worse than the wolf.
Jackal - Not even Pack Tactics can save the value of this creature, which is by far the worst choice available of those that include pack tactics.
Lizard - Better as a familiar than an animal companion. Has a climb speed, is otherwise completely useless.
Mastiff - Potential mount. Trip effect on attacks, like the Hyena it's strictly inferior to the wolf.
Mule - Potential Mount. Sure footed and Beast of Burden both provide beneficial effects, just ones better suited to a pack animal than an animal companion.
Octopus - Cannot breathe out of water. In a heavily coastal or aquatic themed campaign, it's average, but even then is vastly inferior to the Giant Crab.
Owl - 120' darkvision and flyby provide redeeming qualities for a creature that is otherwise strictly inferior to the Flying Snake.
Panther - Potential mount. Great speed, a climb speed, and pounce, but sadly you'll never get to use the bonus action attack barring DM houserules. Its abilities do not provide as much synergy with the rules on Animal Companions as other options.
Poisonous Snake - Worse in every possible way than the Flying Snake, there is no discernible reason to ever choose this option.
Pony - Potential mount. Worse in every possible way than the Wolf, it lacks any unique or meaningful characteristics to compensate for its deficits.
Pteranodon (Dinosaur) - Potential Mount. One of two medium flying creatures eligible for taking as an Animal Companion, which makes it a possible flying mount. Has Flyby instead of Pack Tactics, is otherwise strictly superior to the Vulture.
Quipper - Cannot breathe out of water. An average choice only in campaigns set entirely within an aquatic environment, as it lacks even the 30 minutes the octopus can spend out of water.
Rat - Better as a familiar than a Animal Companion, and probably a poor choice even then. There is no discernible reason to ever take this creature.
Raven - Its mimic ability may or may not be useful, depending on DM adjudication. Otherwise strictly inferior to the Blood Hawk and Flying Snake.
Scorpion - Strictly inferior even to the regular poisonous snake.
Sea Horse - Cannot breathe out of water, -and- it lacks any means of attacking. The worst possible choice for an Animal Companion, if I could invent a new color for it I would.
Spider A better familiar than animal companion, it is strictly inferior to the Giant Wolf Spider.
Stirge (HotDQ) - Decent AC and attack bonus, its real strength lies in the fact that you do not need to use your action for it to continue to deal damage. Rather, it deals its damage (5 + proficiency bonus) each turn so long as it remains attached, a condition it must willfully end (it *can* detach itself by spending 5' of movement once the target has taken 10 or more damage, but does not appear to be required to do so), or which requires an action on the part of an enemy to end. A unique choice, it is strongest in the levels before your beast gains its second attack (at 11).
Vulture - Potential mount. One of two medium flying creatures eligible for taking as an Animal Companion, which makes it a possible flying mount. Has pack tactics instead of flyby, is otherwise strictly worse than the Pteranodon.
Weasel - The same is true for it as is true for the Rat, there is no discernible reason to ever take this companion.
Wolf - Potential mount. Good AC, good to hit bonus, free trip effect on attacking, which may provide advantage for other melee combatants, and it has pack tactics. Large enough to serve as a mount, and its abilities are well suited to that purpose. An excellent choice.

Kryx
2015-07-14, 05:47 AM
Animal Buddy: A Guide to the Ranger's Beast Companion (http://community.wizards.com/forum/player-help/threads/4131836)

Giant2005
2015-07-14, 06:20 AM
The Hoard of the Dragon Queen Supplement has a Tiny CR 1/8 Beast in it that is actually quite worth mentioning: The Stirge.
What makes the Stirge interesting is that it only needs to attack once and then it continues inflicting its damage each turn unless someone spends an action pulling him off. At levels prior to 11 that would be quite an asset for a Beastmaster but it would lose its luster post level 11 but that is one of the cool things of the BM - starting with a Stirge doesn't mean you can't change it up when it becomes less useful.

GiantOctopodes
2015-07-14, 06:27 AM
Animal Buddy: A Guide to the Ranger's Beast Companion (http://community.wizards.com/forum/player-help/threads/4131836)

Thanks! As much as this seems much more of a waste of time now, I'll still end up rounding this out since I started already haha. One important note from his guide: He lists the Giant Badger as being able to use its multiattack. Based on the rules for the Beastmaster, since he can command it to take the Attack Action, and multiattack is not the attack action, I don't see how that's supported, unless I'm missing something? Still holds honors as the only companion I know with a Burrow speed, but as far as I can tell, isn't multiattack useless in this context?

and Giant2005, thanks much! That's exactly the kind of info I was looking for! I'll add that in as soon as I have a chance

Giant2005
2015-07-14, 06:31 AM
He lists the Giant Badger as being able to use its multiattack. Based on the rules for the Beastmaster, since he can command it to take the Attack Action, and multiattack is not the attack action, I don't see how that's supported, unless I'm missing something? Still holds honors as the only companion I know with a Burrow speed, but as far as I can tell, isn't multiattack useless in this context?

He probably wrote that guide based off Crawford's tweets that cited the Giant Badger could use its Multi-Attack when commanded by a Beastmaster. That has since changed via the Errata which puts that previous guide out of date - the Giant Badger can no longer multi-attack (Until he gets to level 11) and is now quite useless as a companion.

Kryx
2015-07-14, 06:55 AM
Ya, his guide was likely not updated w/ the errata.

EvilAnagram
2015-07-14, 07:23 AM
Thanks! As much as this seems much more of a waste of time now, I'll still end up rounding this out since I started already haha. One important note from his guide: He lists the Giant Badger as being able to use its multiattack. Based on the rules for the Beastmaster, since he can command it to take the Attack Action, and multiattack is not the attack action, I don't see how that's supported, unless I'm missing something? Still holds honors as the only companion I know with a Burrow speed, but as far as I can tell, isn't multiattack useless in this context?

and Giant2005, thanks much! That's exactly the kind of info I was looking for! I'll add that in as soon as I have a chance

As of the errata, the giant badger can use Multi attack once it has Bestial Fury. The damage is competitive with other classes.

I think you might be undervaluing the boar, though. The extra d6 of damage from and knocking prone from Charge makes it very competitive as a mount, strictly better than the wolf in damage.

Person_Man
2015-07-14, 07:30 AM
Also, this thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?405369-Beastmaster-Ranger-Not-as-terrible-as-it-seems) covers most of the same ground. The strengths and weaknesses of any particular Companion choice depend a lot on how your DM rules. For example, if your DM doesn't allow your Companion to use its Bonus Action, then the Panther is a terrible choice.

GiantOctopodes
2015-07-14, 08:00 AM
As of the errata, the giant badger can use Multi attack once it has Bestial Fury. The damage is competitive with other classes.

I think you might be undervaluing the boar, though. The extra d6 of damage from and knocking prone from Charge makes it very competitive as a mount, strictly better than the wolf in damage.

Ah, thanks for the clarification! No reason I can discern to use multiattack vs two claw attacks in its case, but definitely good to know!

Regarding the Boar, when I'm looking at it, it has worse AC, lower to hit values even before you take into account Pack Tactics (which is HUGE), and its prone attack, instead of applying on every attack, requires 20' of straight movement, which can be difficult to obtain in dungeons or other cramped environments. Combine this with it not having a way of extracting itself without drawing AoOs and only having 40' of movement, and I can't say for sure that it'll even be possible to get the charge attacks on turns after the first, much less a good idea. When it does get the charge, its trip effect is the same as the Wolf gets on each and every attack, and its damage rises from 4 to 7, also identical to what the Wolf gets on every attack. It may be that I'm undervaluing relentless, but otherwise I'm just not seeing it.

Giant2005
2015-07-14, 08:19 AM
I think you are seriously over-valuing the Wolf.
The Wolf isn't terrible but by no means should it be on the same level as the Giant Poisonous Snake.
The only really notable thing the Wolf has going for it is Pack Tactics but even that is kind of worthless considering the Ranger will most likely be casting Beast Bond anyway.

SharkForce
2015-07-14, 01:03 PM
flying snake is probably the best non-mount option by a significant margin. the poison is better than the giant snake's poison because there is no save DC whatsoever, which likely makes it pull ahead against any enemy with decent con saves (but not immunity to poison).

pulls ahead even further when you consider the value of milking the flying snake poison for use on your own weapons, which will remain valuable even as saving throws and con attributes increase.

also, while the crab may have better AC, the flying snake's AC is all dex, which means it benefits a lot from a mage armour spell if someone in the party can spare one. it also benefits better from medium barding if you can persuade your DM that snakes can have barding, though admittedly I don't consider that one an easy sell (and naturally, plate is identical either way).

about the only thing you could do to make it more amazing is make it medium and keep the same stats so that small characters could ride it.

Naanomi
2015-07-14, 01:31 PM
The crab's auto grappling is more effective than one might think; while they are not winning any damage contest they make good pets and are good at positioning for a reaction-attack of opportunity and grab to ruin an enemy's turn

Easy_Lee
2015-07-14, 01:39 PM
For example, if your DM doesn't allow your Companion to use its Bonus Action, then the Panther is a terrible choice.

I agree, but I didn't know this was a common thing.

Madfellow
2015-07-14, 02:40 PM
also, while the crab may have better AC, the flying snake's AC is all dex, which means it benefits a lot from a mage armour spell if someone in the party can spare one.


I'm pretty sure Mage Armor is self only.

Easy_Lee
2015-07-14, 03:41 PM
I'm pretty sure Mage Armor is self only.

It's not. You touch a willing target.

GiantOctopodes
2015-07-14, 04:56 PM
I think you are seriously over-valuing the Wolf.
The Wolf isn't terrible but by no means should it be on the same level as the Giant Poisonous Snake.
The only really notable thing the Wolf has going for it is Pack Tactics but even that is kind of worthless considering the Ranger will most likely be casting Beast Bond anyway.

Yeah, I agree. I was originally going to run DPR comparisons and show how much advantage positively influenced it, and though such analysis would not have been wrong (at 20, vs AC 19 enemies, assuming they make their saves vs poison it's 11.2 damage per hit, or 22.4 per round for the giant snake, vs 10.92 per hit for the Wolf, or 21.84 per round), and talk about how the prone effect is better because though the poison and the ability to harvest it can potentially boost your DPR, this can improve the DPR for the whole party, and so on and so forth. However I realized the levels where there is the narrowest difference in damage are also those where there's very little chance that appropriate CR enemies are ever going to be knocked prone. During low levels, when the knockdown has the greatest impact, the difference in their effective DPR is just too great to justify having the same ranking. The Wolf has been knocked down accordingly. It's likely for the best this way anyway, as this way there's a champion on land (giant poisonous snake), sea (giant crab) and air (pteranodon).


flying snake is probably the best non-mount option by a significant margin. the poison is better than the giant snake's poison because there is no save DC whatsoever, which likely makes it pull ahead against any enemy with decent con saves (but not immunity to poison).

pulls ahead even further when you consider the value of milking the flying snake poison for use on your own weapons, which will remain valuable even as saving throws and con attributes increase.

also, while the crab may have better AC, the flying snake's AC is all dex, which means it benefits a lot from a mage armour spell if someone in the party can spare one. it also benefits better from medium barding if you can persuade your DM that snakes can have barding, though admittedly I don't consider that one an easy sell (and naturally, plate is identical either way).

about the only thing you could do to make it more amazing is make it medium and keep the same stats so that small characters could ride it.

Best tiny animal companion no doubt. Best non-mount flying companion most definitely. But his bigger brother has him beat overall, in my book, and it's actually precisely because of the difference in poisons. The Giant Poisonous Snake can be harvested for Giant Serpent Venom (or whatever they call it) to apply to your own weapons, or those of your allies. Flying Snake Venom is not a type of poison that exists in the rulebook, and thus it cannot be harvested by RAW at all. Now, if your DM allows you to harvest unlimited 7 damage (no save) poison from the Flying Snake, sure, that makes a difference. But that comes back to DM discretion, and I've got to write this up assuming no house rules. Besides, in a straight combat comparison the Giant Poisonous Snake wins anyway. The Giant Poisonous Snake deals 5 more base damage (with the same to hit and AC), deals only 2 less poison damage on a successful save (and thus 4 more total damage) and deals 3 more damage on a failed save (thus 9 more total damage). He doesn't have flyby, but he does have reach.

I can't think of any sane DM that would deny a serpent the use of scale mail :smallsmile: but regardless do want to point out that the flying snake, giant poisonous snake, and giant crab all have +2 or more Dex bonus, so they all have the same AC with medium or heavier armor.


The crab's auto grappling is more effective than one might think; while they are not winning any damage contest they make good pets and are good at positioning for a reaction-attack of opportunity and grab to ruin an enemy's turn

Not to mention that all they need to do is *start* their turn restrained, and even if they escape, it's no movement for them that turn. Definitely very potent.

EvilAnagram
2015-07-14, 05:03 PM
You forgot to mention the Giant Frog's potential as an amphibious vehicle, provided you gain acid resistance.

rhouck
2015-07-14, 07:00 PM
Not to mention that all they need to do is *start* their turn restrained, and even if they escape, it's no movement for them that turn. Definitely very potent.

Can you clarify this point? I understand if a creature is grappled/restrained, then its movement is 0. But if it escapes the grapple and is no longer restrained, then its speed is no longer 0. Why can it not then choose to use its normal movement?

I had thought it was like follows: Creature of speed 30 is grappled and knocked prone. He has speed of 0 as a result of the grapple. On his turn, he spends his action to escape the grapple (he succeeds on the opposed check). Now his movement is no longer 0, but 30 again. He can spend half (15) to stand up, and then 15 to move.

Is there a tweet or rulebook line stating that if you start with speed 0 on your turn, you can not use any movement, even if the condition that reduced your speed to 0 has ended prior to the end of your turn?

Giant2005
2015-07-14, 07:10 PM
I'm disappointed that the Stirge hasn't been added yet! IMO the Stirge is the only beastie that can compete with the Flying Snake for the title of best non-mountable companion.
This would also be the only guide of this sort that would include the Stirge.

GiantOctopodes
2015-07-14, 08:17 PM
I'm disappointed that the Stirge hasn't been added yet! IMO the Stirge is the only beastie that can compete with the Flying Snake for the title of best non-mountable companion.
This would also be the only guide of this sort that would include the Stirge.

My apologies, the situation has been rectified!

SharkForce
2015-07-14, 08:22 PM
I'm disappointed that the Stirge hasn't been added yet! IMO the Stirge is the only beastie that can compete with the Flying Snake for the title of best non-mountable companion.
This would also be the only guide of this sort that would include the Stirge.

the only problem with the stirge is that it is supposed to be full up after a measley 10 HP.

so long as your DM doesn't rule that the stirge explodes in a shower of blood and gore after sucking too much blood out of targets, it can work.

Madfellow
2015-07-14, 08:54 PM
I'm AFB. Do swarms count as beasts or are they their own category?

SharkForce
2015-07-14, 08:59 PM
I'm AFB. Do swarms count as beasts or are they their own category?

animal companion specifies one animal, iirc.

SouthpawSoldier
2015-07-16, 02:18 AM
I'm AFB. Do swarms count as beasts or are they their own category?

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?408528-RAW-RAI-of-Swarms-for-BM-Ranger

Some discussion on the topic of Swarms. My preferred companion (Swarm of Rats), but it does require some DM interpretation/rulings to function.

left
2016-06-28, 12:35 PM
An important consideration is what animals could reasonably wear barding. It maybe possible to break the AC system if your animal is in full plate because you add your proficiency modifier to AC. I think it is perfectly reasonable for a riding horse to have barding, but absurd for a stirge to have barding. A boar or a wolf or snake would be maybe depending on DM.

catman -ranger
2016-08-14, 06:22 PM
Greetings,
I am looking for info on animal companion hp. how much hp do they get and do they level up? I ask because the book makes them seem very weak and says nothing about them leveling.

Alcibiades
2016-08-14, 06:37 PM
Greetings,
I am looking for info on animal companion hp. how much hp do they get and do they level up? I ask because the book makes them seem very weak and says nothing about them leveling.

Animal Companion HP is 4x Ranger Level, as said in the text. Everything they get as you level up is detailed in the Beastmaster text, they don't get any further goodies.

Yes, Animal Companions have taken a fairly sized hit compared to previous editions. They're not front line fighters who can stay in melee for extended periods of time. To get the most out of them in 5E you need to use them tactically.

catman -ranger
2016-08-14, 06:46 PM
Animal Companion HP is 4x Ranger Level, as said in the text. Everything they get as you level up is detailed in the Beastmaster text, they don't get any further goodies.

Yes, Animal Companions have taken a fairly sized hit compared to previous editions. They're not front line fighters who can stay in melee for extended periods of time. To get the most out of them in 5E you need to use them tactically.

yeah, well they were never the most powerful things and yeah seems like 5E nerfed them. One question is exactly how do they level up? what goes up when?

Alcibiades
2016-08-14, 06:52 PM
When you gain a Ranger level, its Max HP goes up by 4. (Since Max HP = Ranger Levels x 4) so it's ill-advised to multiclass with beastmaster, the Companion is squishy enough as-is.

When your proficiency bonus increases, it likewise increases the AC, attack rolls, damage roll, and saves/skills it's proficient in by 1.

catman -ranger
2016-08-14, 07:09 PM
When you gain a Ranger level, its Max HP goes up by 4. (Since Max HP = Ranger Levels x 4) so it's ill-advised to multiclass with beastmaster, the Companion is squishy enough as-is.

When your proficiency bonus increases, it likewise increases the AC, attack rolls, damage roll, and saves/skills it's proficient in by 1.

great! thanks for the info. I appreciate it!

Giant2005
2016-08-14, 11:06 PM
One thing worth noting is that the companion's HP isn't just Rangerlevel *4, it is Rangerlevel *4 or the beast's natural maximum HP, whichever is higher.
That is something worth mentioning because it gives certain companions an advantage over others. For example, a Giant Frog has the most HP of the options (32), which means that until the other companions catch up to it at level 8, it will have the highest hit points.

Aembrosia
2016-08-14, 11:23 PM
Giant riding lizard. Out of the abyss page 131.
Large beast cr 1/4 12 ac 19hp spiderclimb 30. Darkvision. +4 hit 1d8+2

Male steeder. Out of the abyss page 231.
Medium beast 12ac 13 hp spiderclimb 30 leap standing/running jump 60ft. +5 stealth. +4 hit 1d8+2 bite con save acid 1d8. A +4 to grappling.

ad_hoc
2016-08-14, 11:24 PM
One thing worth noting is that the companion's HP isn't just Rangerlevel *4, it is Rangerlevel *4 or the beast's natural maximum HP, whichever is higher.
That is something worth mentioning because it gives certain companions an advantage over others. For example, a Giant Frog has the most HP of the options (32), which means that until the other companions catch up to it at level 8, it will have the highest hit points.

Because companions are restricted by CR and CR is based partly on HP, it is actually generally better to have a companion with low base HP as they will have other features to make up for it. Then, you get to boost up their HP with your feature.

This is a major flaw in the design of the Beastmaster.

Giant2005
2016-08-15, 12:22 AM
Giant riding lizard. Out of the abyss page 131.
Large beast cr 1/4 12 ac 19hp spiderclimb 30. Darkvision. +4 hit 1d8+2


Companions can't be large.


Because companions are restricted by CR and CR is based partly on HP, it is actually generally better to have a companion with low base HP as they will have other features to make up for it. Then, you get to boost up their HP with your feature.

This is a major flaw in the design of the Beastmaster.

That is only true when using the DMG's rules for making custom creatures. The official creatures aren't made by the same metric and there isn't really a correlation, they just seemed to have eyeballed the stats of a creature and then guessed a CR level for them - you can't actually make creatures that are anywhere near as powerful as the official creatures, by using the rules (not without cheesing things and making them specifically for the Beastmaster in order to exploit its mechanics like I did for my creatures in my Ranger Revised homebrew).

ad_hoc
2016-08-15, 12:33 AM
Companions can't be large.



That is only true when using the DMG's rules for making custom creatures. The official creatures aren't made by the same metric and there isn't really a correlation, they just seemed to have eyeballed the stats of a creature and then guessed a CR level for them - you can't actually make creatures that are anywhere near as powerful as the official creatures, by using the rules (not without cheesing things and making them specifically for the Beastmaster in order to exploit its mechanics like I did for my creatures in my Ranger Revised homebrew).

Are you actually saying that HP does not factor into CR of monsters in the MM?

Saeviomage
2016-08-15, 12:40 AM
I would recommend against using a beastmaster's pet as a mount. A regular mount gets to use dash, disengage and dodge without the rider expending any actions. A beastmaster has to spend an action or bonus action to get his mount to do so.

Giant2005
2016-08-15, 05:11 AM
Are you actually saying that HP does not factor into CR of monsters in the MM?

It doesn't in a mathematical sense, but I'm sure it does factor in somewhat when they eyeball a CR out of it. However, due to the eyeballing nature of it, they are so superbly wrong with their assumptions (by the standards of their own rules at least) that it doesn't really matter.
Either way, even if they did use the actual rules to make it, it would only have a minimal impact due to the companion's having the maximum amount of hit points possible.
As an example, even when using the rules to determine CR, these two hit point values have the same defensive CR: 4d8 (average 18) and 3d8+5 (average 18), yet when maximizing hit points, the former is better (32 vs 29).


I would recommend against using a beastmaster's pet as a mount. A regular mount gets to use dash, disengage and dodge without the rider expending any actions. A beastmaster has to spend an action or bonus action to get his mount to do so.

No he doesn't. A mount uses the mounted combat rules regardless of the nature of the mount.
Either way, that is a fairly insignificant thing - the reason one uses their companion as a mount is so they can protect it via the Mounted Combatant feat while it does damage. That is the important part.

Alcibiades
2016-08-15, 05:12 AM
I would recommend against using a beastmaster's pet as a mount. A regular mount gets to use dash, disengage and dodge without the rider expending any actions. A beastmaster has to spend an action or bonus action to get his mount to do so.

This is open to inrepretation, no? An Animal Companion you're mounted on is both your mount and your AC, and there's no indication that one text trumps the other.
Honestly Rangers and Beastmasters in particular struggle enough as is, I'd allow it in my game.

famousringo
2016-08-15, 12:07 PM
I'm late to this party, so maybe I'm wasting my breath, but the best thing about the giant frog isn't the swallow. Chances to swallow small creatures will probably be rare unless you or your party combo with Reduce/Enlarge a lot.

Best thing about the frog is the automatic, no-save Restrain on a hit, giving you and the rest of your party advantage until the target breaks free. Makes frog by far the best pet for control, IMO.

SharkForce
2016-08-15, 01:58 PM
I've actually found that most monsters are pretty good on CR based on the calculation method given in the DMG. there's just some that are wildly inaccurate. and some that are reasonably accurate, but only because CR completely ignores certain things entirely when calculating CR (you could have power word kill as an at-will ability and it wouldn't have any impact on CR whatsoever, for example).

Giant2005
2016-08-15, 02:50 PM
I've actually found that most monsters are pretty good on CR based on the calculation method given in the DMG. there's just some that are wildly inaccurate. and some that are reasonably accurate, but only because CR completely ignores certain things entirely when calculating CR (you could have power word kill as an at-will ability and it wouldn't have any impact on CR whatsoever, for example).

Yeah, I was mostly referring to those OP snakes when I was complaining about the inaccuracies of the CR system. I was intentionally trying to munch out the creature creation rules, but even while minimalizing defensive CR (because Barding and Ranger HP renders it obsolete anyway), I couldn't match the offense of the snakes.

SharkForce
2016-08-16, 12:19 AM
Yeah, I was mostly referring to those OP snakes when I was complaining about the inaccuracies of the CR system. I was intentionally trying to munch out the creature creation rules, but even while minimalizing defensive CR (because Barding and Ranger HP renders it obsolete anyway), I couldn't match the offense of the snakes.

well, i mean, you could certainly get... "creative" with it. there are a lot of abilities that have no impact on CR.

some are even vaguely plausible as things an animal (in a D&D context) might have. (just looking through, a fairly funny one would be leadership plus the ability to speak common).

and of course, you can always give them proficiency in all saves and expertise in a bunch of skills :)

(but yeah, if you're not deliberately trying to cheese the system, the flying snake is pretty hard to improve on).

Saeviomage
2016-08-17, 12:17 AM
This is open to inrepretation, no? An Animal Companion you're mounted on is both your mount and your AC, and there's no indication that one text trumps the other.
Honestly Rangers and Beastmasters in particular struggle enough as is, I'd allow it in my game.

... so if you're mounted on your animal companion, does it get to dash, dodge, disengage and move for free and then do it again when you spend actions?

Why can't you just designate it as an uncontrolled mount and completely free it of the restrictions of being an animal companion?

Duke of Nowhere
2016-11-10, 07:56 PM
Can you clarify this point? I understand if a creature is grappled/restrained, then its movement is 0. But if it escapes the grapple and is no longer restrained, then its speed is no longer 0. Why can it not then choose to use its normal movement?

I had thought it was like follows: Creature of speed 30 is grappled and knocked prone. He has speed of 0 as a result of the grapple. On his turn, he spends his action to escape the grapple (he succeeds on the opposed check). Now his movement is no longer 0, but 30 again. He can spend half (15) to stand up, and then 15 to move.

Is there a tweet or rulebook line stating that if you start with speed 0 on your turn, you can not use any movement, even if the condition that reduced your speed to 0 has ended prior to the end of your turn?

At the start of you turn you use your move piece by piece or all at once. If you stand up you use 1/2 your movement or 15ft. Note that that is a fixed relative value. If you are hit by ray of frost to reduce your movement by 10 feet, you still need 15 feet of movement to stand up if your are prone.

As you move your movement is consumed until you are down to 0 movement, meaning you can't move further that turn. At the START of your turn you movement is avalable again. In the above example of being prone and restrained your movement is set to zero. At the start of your turn you movement is fully consumed by the condition of being restrained. If you break the restrained condition you can regain you full movement next turn. The exception to this is if there is an another effect that modifies you movement during your turn.

BelatedDoom
2017-02-14, 05:43 PM
Panther - Potential mount. Great speed, a climb speed, and pounce, but sadly you'll never get to use the bonus action attack barring DM houserules. Its abilities do not provide as much synergy with the rules on Animal Companions as other options.

Can you explain why the bonus action could not be taken? As it is not considered a multi attack but a bonus action I would have thought it should work.

I am also using the guidelines of the WotC Revised Ranger, in case that affects the ruling at all.

EvilAnagram
2017-02-14, 06:41 PM
Can you explain why the bonus action could not be taken? As it is not considered a multi attack but a bonus action I would have thought it should work.

I am also using the guidelines of the WotC Revised Ranger, in case that affects the ruling at all.

That does affect it. The Revised Ranger simply gives you a way to adjust the stats of the companion, who acts on its own. The PHB Ranger gives it specific ways it can interact with the world.

AsterComelot
2017-04-02, 12:15 AM
I have a question. I just made a beast master ranger but she is also a sailor. Idk what companion to pick that would work well for land and sea. I was thinking one with wings but idk what to pick any advice.