How does this sound as a campaign idea?

[wertyou2]

First level, small adventure about defeating a low-level, evil wizard terrorizing countryside. This is successful, and they go off to assorted adventures, and have a jolly old time. Eventually, give them opportunity to gain truesight either through true seeing or some magic item, those who gain it begin seeing things they're fighting as good aligned creatures, average commoners, etc. Eventually, it's revealed that evil wizard has been leading them through elaborate illusion this entire time, using them as weapons to do his dirty work, e.g. when PCs thought they were fighting a dragon, they were fighting a sphinx protecting some evil artifact that the wizard wanted.

This entire time, both the PCs are leveling as usual, and wizard would gain power throughout as well, either through leveling on his own time, or through help of magic items or other such means.
I feel like this could be a cool idea. Does anyone else agree, or have any ideas to make it better?

[EvilAnagram]

I like it.

[DireSickFish]

Sounds like a cool idea. Would you use the "monster" stats or the "real" people stats? It would make for good hint dropping to have the illusions not be using attacks they should. That chimera never uses his breath weapon but has a hell of a charge attack because he's really a war elephant.

The reveal could be good if given enough forshadowing. Otherwise it might feel like a retcon. The truesight should break the illusion fullstop so I wouldn't use that until I wanted the masquerade done with.

[wertyou2]

Sounds like a cool idea. Would you use the "monster" stats or the "real" people stats? It would make for good hint dropping to have the illusions not be using attacks they should. That chimera never uses his breath weapon but has a hell of a charge attack because he's really a war elephant.

The reveal could be good if given enough forshadowing. Otherwise it might feel like a retcon. The truesight should break the illusion fullstop so I wouldn't use that until I wanted the masquerade done with.

Probably the monster stats if I could, since the CR might get a bit wonky otherwise. Some ideas I had for hints would be a "goblin" they kill having a teddy bear on him, or an "orc" with a well written love note.

[Brendanicus]

Sounds like a great plot hook. My only suggestion would be not to have the charade go on for to long. 2 or 3 sessions at the most. You don't want your players figuring it early.

Also, does the evil wizard have an agenda? Is it even a wizard? A Warlock could just as easily do this, but with the added bonus of having the agenda of a mysterious, evil patron.

[Ralanr]

That's so delightfully evil! Do it man!

[snowman87]

Splendid idea! Facing the consequences will definitely add another layer to the story since no one will forget what they did. If one is a Paladin, does he lose his oath or have to make amends? Do the people they killed have loved ones that will come for them? Will they be wanted criminals? The story goes on!

[Millface]

The only issue I see with this (it's a great twist, is that the players are going to feel terribly robbed if they forge relationships with NPCs and locals or build up reputations in the surrounding areas. My first thought would be "ACK! Brilliant!" followed immediately by "Wow, everything I am, everything I've done, everyone I've grown to care for is a lie."

As someone who roleplays deeply, I can't see many character concepts that wouldn't go just a little crazy after this reveal. Many personalities would just say screw it, I'm done. (Imagine you're playing a video game for 8 hours and forget to save, then the power cuts out. I know I've quit games before because of that frustration.)

All in all, great idea, but be careful and expect backlash in and out of character.

[Slipperychicken]

I think it can be done right if you're careful about it and leave enough clues and hints. Being too heavy-handed about it can make it look like an asspull. Perhaps PCs may occasionally make wisdom saves and end up noticing discrepancies like their hands passing through a goblin's ear or orc's tusk like they weren't there, or a skeleton's head feeling like it still had skin on it.

Of course, we also must wonder who they were selling their loot to, and what those barmaids, questgivers, and other friendly NPCs really were.

There will probably be a number of inconsistencies, which a player may write off as bad DMing. Though this may work well for a single adventure, where the differences will be more obvious.

[Shining Wrath]

It would bend brains. It's a great idea, but once you've established that they've slaughtered innocents by the dozens, how do you get them to carry on?

[Slarg]

^ Easy; make a point of it that it's not their fault, and the evil wizard is the one that needs to pay for the crimes.

"The easiest way to make Good characters do evil is tell them they had no control over it". -Order of the Stick.


I think it can be done right if you're careful about it and leave enough clues and hints. Being too heavy-handed about it can make it look like an asspull. Perhaps PCs may occasionally make wisdom saves and end up noticing discrepancies like their hands passing through a goblin's ear or orc's tusk like they weren't there, or a skeleton's head feeling like it still had skin on it.

Of course, we also must wonder who they were selling their loot to, and what those barmaids, questgivers, and other friendly NPCs really were.

There will probably be a number of inconsistencies, which a player may write off as bad DMing. Though this may work well for a single adventure, where the differences will be more obvious.

Could just say the barmaids/questgivers and friendly NPCs were just illusions.


If you really wanted to be evil with it, have them kill someone illusioned as an animal (Say, a deer that was really a woman taking a bath in the woods) and have them eat her XD Might be going a little too far, though.

[Safety Sword]

Of course, we also must wonder who they were selling their loot to, and what those barmaids, questgivers, and other friendly NPCs really were.



Members of the anti-magical resistance who break into the illusion and try to rescue the characters by steering them in the right directions to get to the illusion's "escape hatch".

It's the Matrix Magic after all.

[Kurt Kurageous]

Great idea.

Have them overthrow something permanent in the world that they could handle, like a local lord, village/town reeve, etc.

Then they are wanted by bigger authorities, chased away to a new home, etc. Bond becomes to return and set it right.

The BBEG guy does not need to be a wizard. The party could be well paid while working for what appears to be a legitimate government authority (the Good Guys) giving them righteous orders (in writing and everything!) to do things that, from another perspective, are evil (selfish).

Feel free to use the following NPC sketches/scenario.

Adammit the Wise Found wandering, blinded, dying, and old in the vicinity of Wastrow. He is the recently deposed Lord of the City of Camor. He was deposed in a popular uprising and coup by his longtime friend, Lord Cova.

Lord Unulfr Visison Cova Leige and loyal friend of Adammit the Wise, in charge of taxation and public works in Camor. Cova was struck down by personal tragedy as he witnessed his wife and heirs poisoned. Inconclusive evidence pointed to Adammit. Cova sunk into suicidal depression during his year of mourning, which was ended by the arrival of a wandering noble Hebi Midu Erish bin Thregate, a charming young man seeking experience in the world and sent to Camor via gate from his estate in Thregate. Cova seemed to rally in the next year bolstered by this new friendship. One day the young nobleman took his leave as suddenly as he came, and Lord Cova’s destiny seemed to take as rapid a turn.

Qev’vorn bin Anar bin Graz’zt (aka Baron Acwus von Thregate, Hebi Mindu Erish bin Thregate, Lord Cova) is a cambrion born with a large flaw in his constitution. His parents/lords did not believe he could succeed among the humanoids, but he was hell bent to try. He used, abused, and exploited all of his devilish contacts to overpower and sack a remote estate of a retired adventurer Bifund the Brilliant somewhere east of Nony. This produced little treasure and a lot of attention that made Qev a target of both bounty hunters and a few of his former allies who were promised treasures that never materialized in the looting. Broke and friendless, Qev improved his methods. He assassinated and impersonated the Baron of Thregate in order to rule in his place. But this plan began to unravel almost immediately. He could not long keep the pretense of being Thregate before the servants and a suspicious wife. So the ‘new’ Baron Thregate hastily placed the estate under stewardship, directed an allowance be sent to Camor, and then chose to ‘travel’ in order to unleash another plan to usurp power. Lord Cova was his next victim. Qev arranged the poisonings, and everything went according to plan. Qev is now a popular ruler of Camor because he bought it. He is ruining years of good stewardship by the man he replaced in weeks by implementing popular, expensive, and unsustainable policies and social programs that will bankrupt Camor in a year. The programs are distractions from the debauchery and daily shows of brutish policing and strong-arm tactics of the ‘new’ government of Camor, which now seems run more like an organized crime syndicate than a feudal city.

[dragsvart]

This is a great mind bend, I might have to borrow it someday.

The only problem would be (as others have mentioned) who the adventurers are selling their loot to/buying supplies from/getting quests from/renting rooms from/talking to in villages?

[Safety Sword]

This is a great mind bend, I might have to borrow it someday.

The only problem would be (as others have mentioned) who the adventurers are selling their loot to/buying supplies from/getting quests from/renting rooms from/talking to in villages?

Mind controlled thralls of the BBEG.

[dragsvart]

Mind controlled thralls of the BBEG.

but mind controlling whole villages so that people don't run away screaming from a group of notorious evil murderers that are happily selling their loot. mind controlling 4-6 adventurers and a few people along the way is one thing, whole villages at once is another.

[Safety Sword]

but mind controlling whole villages so that people don't run away screaming from a group of notorious evil murderers that are happily selling their loot. mind controlling 4-6 adventurers and a few people along the way is one thing, whole villages at once is another.

DMs have phenomenal cosmic power.

[dragsvart]

DMs have phenomenal cosmic power.

true, but awesome powers of the DM aside. its like when monsters have a magic item when you loot them but they never use it in the fight with the adventurers, or if a BBEG uses a teleport ring throughout an adventure but it isn't there when they kill him and loot his corpse. if he has the power to control whole villages at a time he wouldn't be someone the adventurers could easily beat after their eyes were opened, not to mention he could probably close their eyes again without too much trouble.

hand-waving the power works but its a question worth considering in case a player asks it or it leads to a cool plot point that could be added.

perhaps one of the first item the acquire for the evil guy could be a magic item that lets him dominate many weak willed people at once (allowing for some stronger willed people to run screaming from the adventurers/murderers and be see as a lunatic by the other enthralled NPCs), that would answer the question of how the adventurers can go into towns as normal while really being seen as a group of insane serial killers/minions of evil and allow for some "insane" people as some cool foreshadowing (not to mention a good quest to reclaim the item so the evil guy cant repeat his scam with some more adventurers).

[Astovidas]

I Like your idea as well! :smallsmile:

And for the problem of selling your loot;
you could just set your campaign in a sparsely populated area, so the BBEG doesn't have to control a whole town, but maybe an outpost with 10 people.
Or they could sell their loot to goblins, orcs and ogres who look like small or big humans. That way, your PCs are not only doing the BBEG's dirtywork, but are also equipping his other minions. :xykon:

But the idea with the magic item, that let's him control others, is nice as well. Especially the "crazy people", who will cry out, that doom is upon them and the butchers of the evil lord have come to slay them all!

As soon as they see through the illusions, you could have them encounter another adventurer group who wants to kill them, because the PCs are "the orcs that have been raiding all the caravans!" and when the PCs try to explain them, that they aren't orcs or try to reason with them they react as if they were insulted; "WHAT did you just say??" - "oh yeah? an yo mama is so ugly, not even a carrion crawler would eat her!" [yeah, sry, not that big of a jokster..] :smalltongue:

[PoeticDwarf]

It sounds cool, but there has to be another team. Maybe a paladin or gold dragon (becoming stronger of course)

[Gritmonger]

I would abandon any character that had leveled by killing innocents. I would not be able to role play using any skill I had gained by practicing it on killing innocent people, especially if I wasn't playing an evil character.

End of campaign would be the reveal. I don't buy the "didn't know what they were doing" excuse. The illusion would have to totally override all senses to prevent verbal and nonverbal communication, and somehow make a fleeing populace look like a charging horde.

[Slarg]

The illusion would have to totally override all senses to prevent verbal and nonverbal communication, and somehow make a fleeing populace look like a charging horde.

Or the illusion makes it whenever they talk you hear squealing instead of speech and replaces them with Goblins/Kobolds/other similarily cowardly creatures so that when you kill the Elite members of the race (The guards/knights) the riff raff (the commoners) flee.

[Elendil412]

You could have the bbeg have an ancient artifact that can only dominate something once.
Like magical chicken pox.
And to solve the problem of players could investigate disappearances in the area.
And the BBEG has been sending people into an illusionary world that no evil person can enter guarding an ancient evil that the BBEG needs for total world domination.
Then you can occasionally give will save against the world, and success means a temporary glimpse the real world. And when the PCs break free they won't have any reputation. Lol

[JoeJ]

I agree with Gritmonger. I generally play good aligned characters, and this would destroy them. Most of my characters who learned they had been going around murdering innocent people would immediately throw down their weapons and go surrender to whatever passes for the authorities.

[Vogonjeltz]

First level, small adventure about defeating a low-level, evil wizard terrorizing countryside. This is successful, and they go off to assorted adventures, and have a jolly old time. Eventually, give them opportunity to gain truesight either through true seeing or some magic item, those who gain it begin seeing things they're fighting as good aligned creatures, average commoners, etc. Eventually, it's revealed that evil wizard has been leading them through elaborate illusion this entire time, using them as weapons to do his dirty work, e.g. when PCs thought they were fighting a dragon, they were fighting a sphinx protecting some evil artifact that the wizard wanted.

This entire time, both the PCs are leveling as usual, and wizard would gain power throughout as well, either through leveling on his own time, or through help of magic items or other such means.
I feel like this could be a cool idea. Does anyone else agree, or have any ideas to make it better?

It sounds like the premise of Quantum Gate (game from the 90s) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_Gate_(video_game)

Which is to say, it sounds like an interesting idea. What you could do is introduce a variety of rules that the employers of the characters have i.e. They're told not to let the targets mislead them, as they specialize in trickery or something, which is intended to prevent the players from being reasoned with.

You could also drop a number of context clues that, if the players are investigative enough, can reveal the charade before too much (or even any) damage is done.

[JackPhoenix]

I think adding ideas how to run a campaign is pointless after 4 months...