What class(es) would Gandalf be in 5th edition d&d

[Spacehamster]

Not pure wizard since he also fights with his sword and staff not just spells? So maybe evocation wizard with couple of fighter levels?

[Magic Myrmidon]

Cleric, maybe. Gets some fighting skills, and his magic is more subtle than fireballs and such. And he's pretty much a god, himself, so "divine" stuff fits.

Edit: That being said, it's difficult to achieve satisfactory emulation of any LOTR character in pretty much all D&D editions.

[Dienekes]

Not pure wizard since he also fights with his sword and staff not just spells? So maybe evocation wizard with couple of fighter levels?

His class is *screw you I'm Gandalf*

More seriously, Gandalf is a strange beast. He has some spells that are pretty distinctively in the wizard spell list. He uses a sword as well as the next guy. Probably has at least a divine rank. Had speak with animals. Had his own magic mount named Shadowfax that seemed to appear whenever he needed him.

in short, he's either multiclassed up the whazzoo or a gestalt.

[Takewo]

He is a Maia, so probably most of his features would come from his race rather than his class, for maiar are powerful beings.

[Shining Wrath]

No perfect fit available; he's a non-standard race, for starters.

But I'll propose Cleric, Light Domain.

[Ninjadeadbeard]

Aasimar Valor Bard.

But Gandalf is more of an NPC, so probably a straight Angel (afb so can't remember the CR10 one).

[DracoKnight]

Not pure wizard since he also fights with his sword and staff not just spells? So maybe evocation wizard with couple of fighter levels?

Or a Deva (from the MM) who was given 20 levels in Evocation Wizard with the Weapon Master feat, with Greatswords, Longswords, and two other weapons of some kind or another.

[EvilAnagram]

Aasimar Cleric of Light.

He's a maiar, his power comes from the undying lands and the light of Eru. When he says, "I wield the flame of Anor," he's specifically referring to the sun, a flower from one of the trees of Valinor.

[Ralanr]

Bard (without singing) /cleric multiclass.

At least that's my guess. He might be a Druid, the brown wizard definitely has Druid in him.

[Naanomi]

He has magic items and 'blessings' that make puzzling out his own abilities tougher

[MrStabby]

Mechanically - probably a warlock (pact of the blade). Strong apparently at will spells, good blasting ability, no tie to a specific element or school and passable with his chosen sword. He doesn't have healing spells but does have abilities like "disguise self" (think being mistaken for Saruman) and thaumaturgy.

[DracoKnight]

Mechanically - probably a warlock (pact of the blade). Strong apparently at will spells, good blasting ability, no tie to a specific element or school and passable with his chosen sword. He doesn't have healing spells but does have abilities like "disguise self" (think being mistaken for Saruman) and thaumaturgy.

That actually makes a lot of sense.

[Orvir]

I may have an opinion on this subject.

[EvilAnagram]

At what point does he use a spell that qualifies as blasting?

[Naanomi]

Gandalf's actual spell casting is spotty at best.

-racial ability: alter self
-racial ability: immortality
-racial ability: foresight into future events
-racial ability: supernatural perception, including seeing through illusions

-maybe magic: telekenisis
-maybe magic: create fire
-maybe magic: inspiration of others
-maybe magic: creating lightning and thunder

-probably magic: create light
-probably magic: dispel magic darkness
-probably magic: minor prestidigitation
-probably magic: resist/banish other 'evil'

-definetly magic: helped raise the river water
-definetly magic: blessed some beer
-definetly magic: did something that made the walls of the mountain shudder
-definetly magic: made explosive pine cones
-definetly magic: can operate magic runes

-talked about but not really shown: "I once knew every spell in all the tongues of Elves or Men or Orcs, that was ever used for such a purpose. I can still remember ten score of them without searching in my mind."

[Sigreid]

Well, as a literary character he's just like Merlin. Meaning he's exactly what is required for the story and not confined by game rules. But, if I were to quantify either of them I would skip classes and races all together and admit that they are demi-gods.

[Malifice]

I kinda second the lore bard sentiments.

He was renowned for 'kindling the fire in men's hearts' - ie his bardic inspiration is oratory and not performance.

A dip into fighter for TWF style and the DW feat to pack 2 versatile weapons at once. Maybe DW feat and Paladin for divine smite.

But yeah - really an angel and not a PC.

[Zevox]

Edit: That being said, it's difficult to achieve satisfactory emulation of any LOTR character in pretty much all D&D editions.
This, and it goes double for Gandalf, whose race has nothing approaching a proper equivalent in D&D. There is no good fit for him.

[Ralanr]

This, and it goes double for Gandalf, whose race has nothing approaching a proper equivalent in D&D. There is no good fit for him.

I would imagine making Gimli a fighter wouldn't be too farfetched.

Considering Gandalf wasn't in his true form, why should his PC race be considered close to it?

[Zevox]

I would imagine making Gimli a fighter wouldn't be too farfetched.

Considering Gandalf wasn't in his true form, why should his PC race be considered close to it?
Gandalf's abilities come primarily from what he was, not from study or any other source D&D uses to explain magic. See the fact that his power was increased when he returned as Gandalf the White: he didn't learn anything new that caused that, the Valar were simply allowing him to use more of his strength at that point. Also, saying he wasn't in his "true form" implies something that's not accurate - the Ainu ability to take on physical form isn't like D&D shape-shifting, it's described as being to them like putting on clothing is to us. He hasn't changed his form, merely put a physical one over his true state of being as a spirit.

Gimli being a fighter is fine, true, but then you'd get into arguments over about what level he would be, which will never get resolved because different people come away from LotR and D&D with different impressions of how their power levels compare.

[TheOOB]

Gandalf's abilities come primarily from what he was, not from study or any other source D&D uses to explain magic. See the fact that his power was increased when he returned as Gandalf the White: he didn't learn anything new that caused that, the Valar were simply allowing him to use more of his strength at that point. Also, saying he wasn't in his "true form" implies something that's not accurate - the Ainu ability to take on physical form isn't like D&D shape-shifting, it's described as being to them like putting on clothing is to us. He hasn't changed his form, merely put a physical one over his true state of being as a spirit.

Gimli being a fighter is fine, true, but then you'd get into arguments over about what level he would be, which will never get resolved because different people come away from LotR and D&D with different impressions of how their power levels compare.

Yup, Gandalf is basically a demigod. Also note that he only used anywhere close to his full power twice(vs the Balrog and vs Sauraman).

[Malifice]

Gimli being a fighter is fine, true, but then you'd get into arguments over about what level he would be, which will never get resolved because different people come away from LotR and D&D with different impressions of how their power levels compare.

For mine (as at the Council of Elrond, and having regards to DnD's 'Tier system of renown'):

Gimli would be a Champion Fighter in the 7-9ish level range personally. GWF and Defense style.

Would have Boromir around the same level with the Noble background. A S+B (dueling) Fighter. Shield Master feat. Probably a BM to reflect his training in Gondor (rallying strike, commanders strike, parry, sweeping attack).

The four hobbits all being 1-3 level Thief Rogues (with later Fighter dips of varying size, particularly Merry and Pippin)

Legolas would be a Wood Elf BM Fighter also in the 5th level range with the Marksman and Mobile feats. Archery style. Parry, Riposte, accurate strike, evasive footwork. A two level dip into Rogue for expertise in acrobatics and perception and cunning action, and 3 levels in Ranger for TWF style, favored enemy (orcs and goblins), Hunters mark, horde breaker and favored terrain/ primal awareness.

Aragorn is a variant 'spell less' Outlander Ranger 8 (see unearthed arcana), Champion Fighter 3.

Gandalf (for ****s and giggles) is a Lore Bard 16/ Devotion Paladin 3 with the Dual Wielder Feat (Staff and sword). He's picked up a few spells like Lighting bolt from the Wizard spell list (thanks to magical secrets). Most of his spells known are enchantment, abjuration and divination spells.

[Magic Myrmidon]

And just to illustrate Zevox's point, I feel like pretty much all of those are significantly higher level than they should be. None of the the LOTR character's can really take on the challenges that a level 10 character should be able to to take on, let alone 20.

[djreynolds]

Gandalf, is a wizard. He's called the white wizard. With the proficiency system, this allows a high level of any class to be as good as a fighter. A fighter just gets more attacks. A 20 level wizard is better with sword than any 1st level fighter, he should be. Gandalf was also a Maia, same as Sauron, and Saruman, even more related to the Balrog than he was to any mortal. He probably had 20's in all stats. His spell casting could be anything.

[Malifice]

And just to illustrate Zevox's point, I feel like pretty much all of those are significantly higher level than they should be. None of the the LOTR character's can really take on the challenges that a level 10 character should be able to to take on, let alone 20.

Such as? Near endless waves of orcs and Uruk Hai (orogs)? A kraken? Trolls (closer to hill Giants than DnD trolls)?

A party of 4 10 level and 4 3rd level PCs (without AoE spells, and with bounded accuracy) are going to be hard pressed indeed against a few dozen Orogs.

Nearest equivalent to a Balrog is CR 20 Balor and they ran away from that. And the Balrog of Moria was 'the' baddest Balrog remaining alive so likely higher than that.

[Malifice]

Gandalf, is a wizard. He's called the white wizard. With the proficiency system, this allows a high level of any class to be as good as a fighter. A fighter just gets more attacks. A 20 level wizard is better with sword than any 1st level fighter, he should be. Gandalf was also a Maia, same as Sauron, and Saruman, even more related to the Balrog than he was to any mortal. He probably had 20's in all stats. His spell casting could be anything.

Radaghast was a 'wizard' too.

Cough Druid cough.

[Raxxius]

Such as? Near endless waves of orcs and Uruk Hai (orogs)? A kraken? Trolls (closer to hill Giants than DnD trolls)?

A party of 4 10 level and 4 3rd level PCs (without AoE spells, and with bounded accuracy) are going to be hard pressed indeed against a few dozen Orogs.

Nearest equivalent to a Balrog is CR 20 Balor and they ran away from that. And the Balrog of Moria was 'the' baddest Balrog remaining alive so likely higher than that.

Gandalf killed the Balrog. That really sums up how you can't really fit Gandalf into a D&D character. He didn't just roll 20 20s in a row while the Balrog chain fumbled for days.

If you do, bard with limited spell list (as middle earth has less blasty, more subtle magic in general)

[Steampunkette]

Gandalf? Battlemaster Fighter with some magical reward boons, ritual caster, and some cantrips from magic initiate.

Alternatively, Eldritch Knight with ritual caster, magic initiate, and some reward boons.

[weaseldust]

First things first, he has spellcasting abilities but rarely uses them in a fight as far as we can see. I think the best explanation for that is that he has levels in Paladin and spends most of his slots on smites. He also has a steed. Oath of Devotion fits best for the glowing weapon. However, I seem to remember that he warns his companions against being charmed by Saruman even when he is present, which suggests he doesn't have 7 levels as a devotion paladin.

Light Cleric also fits. However, if he had more than two levels in it he would have Flaming Sphere automatically prepared and would have had good reason to use in at some point in Moria to block a narrow passage. Either he burned his slots foolishly quickly, or he has at most two levels in Cleric.

On other spellcasters:


I can't see him having Wizard levels because of the spellbook thing. It's a significant enough characteristic of wizards that you can't ignore it.
If he has Sorcerer levels he must be a Favoured Soul (if you want to allow that) because he doesn't have scales or random spell effects.
If he has Warlock levels it's with a fey patron (which kind of makes sense for the lesser gods in his world), he can't have more than two because he doesn't have the paraphernalia of any pact, and he never uses Eldritch Blast for unknown reasons.
If he has Druid levels, he can't have more than 7 or he would have turned into a bird as a means of escape or faster travel at various times.
Levels in Bard or even Ranger might also make sense and I can't see an obvious limit on them.


He could also have a couple of levels in any other class. Fighter is the most likely option, though.

[Naanomi]

Remember that Gandalf never wears armor, even light armor, and his robes are never called out as magical. Unless his race has natural armor, or the Ring he carries offers armor; in DnD terms he probably is a wizard, sorcerer, or monk... Everyone else would be toting leather at least

And he did use battle magic at least once, disarming Gimli/Aragorn/Legolas with telekenisis and fire

[Shining Wrath]

Remember that Gandalf never wears armor, even light armor, and his robes are never called out as magical. Unless his race has natural armor, or the Ring he carries offers armor; in DnD terms he probably is a wizard, sorcerer, or monk... Everyone else would be toting leather at least

And he did use battle magic at least once, disarming Gimli/Aragorn/Legolas with telekenisis and fire

There was also the time during the siege of Gondor that he caused the Nazgul to turn and flee with a beam of light from his upraised hand. Did he turn several wraiths at a distance of several hundred feet? Was it radiant damage of some sort? Dunno, but it was active combat (the Nazgul were harrying the Gondorian troops returning from the loss of Osiligath) and he made the worst enemies turn and run.

We don't know what he was going to do to the Lord of the Nazgul when he rode through the gate of Minas Tirith, but somehow I don't think it involved hitting him with his staff. Unfortunately for purposes of D&D players, the Rohirrim broke upon the rear of the armies of Mordor at that moment, and the Lord of the Nazgul turned and left the gate.

[Ralanr]

He'd be a statless NPC

[MrStabby]

At what point does he use a spell that qualifies as blasting?

I was thinking in the hobbit where they get ambushed at the goblin cave entrance - I think he describes killing a few of the goblins there with a flash. I don't have the book to hand so could be mistaken.

[Dienekes]

Such as? Near endless waves of orcs and Uruk Hai (orogs)? A kraken? Trolls (closer to hill Giants than DnD trolls)?

A party of 4 10 level and 4 3rd level PCs (without AoE spells, and with bounded accuracy) are going to be hard pressed indeed against a few dozen Orogs.

Nearest equivalent to a Balrog is CR 20 Balor and they ran away from that. And the Balrog of Moria was 'the' baddest Balrog remaining alive so likely higher than that.

They actually ran away from the kraken, and they ran away from the troll.

Boromir alone died fighting a bunch of orcs and killed only 4 uruk hai in his death (multiple normal orcs though, around 16). Of them, normal orcs are more akin to D&D goblins and uruk-hai D&D orcs.

As to the Balrog, while it's D&D equivalent is the Balor, they are not the same. Frankly the Balor has abilities and powers that the Balrog is never even implied to have. For however frightening the Balrog is, all it did was: Destroy a door that Gandalf was using magic to keep closed. Survive one fall that should have killed a living creature. Runs and then fights for a total of 10 days. And, most impressively tied in a fight against Gandalf (technically Gandalf got the killing blow, but died soon afterwards so I call that a tie).

Now, I admit I don't have the stats for a 5e Balor in front of me, but I was under the impresison they could at least fly, shoot lightning, and summon creatures. None of which the Balrog has shown the capacity to do.

[GiantOctopodes]

Rewatched Fellowship of the Ring last night. So far, I've seen Gandalf use the following abilities:

Setting off the fireworks in the back of his cart. Produce Flame is the most direct route to have caused this, but Mage Hand and other options are possible depending on exactly what was set up back there.

"I am not a conjurer of cheap tricks". Thaumaturgy cantrip for sure (which is ironic)

Escaping the tower. Conjure Animals (a Giant Eagle is only CR1, so 2 of them with one casting of the spell) Animal messenger, using the moth to send a message to the Giant Eagle NPCs he knew.

Fighting the Control Weather spell Saruman was using on them in the Pass of Caradras. An unsuccessful Dispel Magic or Counterspell.

Creating Light with his staff. The Light cantrip without a doubt.

Keeping the Orcs at bay, and eventually the Balrog. Sanctuary, and / or Protection from Evil and Good.

If there's any other identifiable supernatural abilities he used, please let me know. So far I'm forced to conclude he is either a Cleric or Druid, and since (despite his claims) he does indeed seems a conjurer of cheap tricks (nothing yet above 3rd level) it may well be that he has levels in both. To get all the effects he has produced so far would require a Druid 5 / Cleric 1.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

Books are probably a better case for this. For a full list of all his powers, see this page here (http://www.quora.com/What-powers-does-Gandalf-possess).

[Naanomi]

By movie standards, his 'conjure animals' is more of a 'animal messenger' with the moth delivering a message to the Eagle NPCs he knew

[GiantOctopodes]

By movie standards, his 'conjure animals' is more of a 'animal messenger' with the moth delivering a message to the Eagle NPCs he knew

ah, very true! I shall change it accordingly, thanks!

[MrStabby]

Although to have the eagles as friends may require charm animals - or at least proficiency in animal handling.

[EvilAnagram]

Although to have the eagles as friends may require charm animals - or at least proficiency in animal handling.

The eagles are awakened creatures.

[Naanomi]

The eagles are awakened creatures.
Giant Eagles already speak their own language, no need to be awakened

[Malifice]

They actually ran away from the kraken.

The Kraken is CR 23.

Im not surprised they ran away.


Boromir alone died fighting a bunch of orcs and killed only 4 uruk hai in his death (multiple normal orcs though, around 16). Of them, normal orcs are more akin to D&D goblins and uruk-hai D&D orcs.

I'd have Uruk Hai as depicted in the films as more akin to Orogs (CR2). He was fighting several of them. Lurtz is probably at least an Orc War chief (CR 4). In the movie adaptation he was shot by just the one Orc (Lurtz). In the books he gets peppered by arrows by an entire Uruk Hai war party.

Having regards to bounded accuracy, I'm not surprised that a single Fighter of around 10th level died here.


As to the Balrog, while it's D&D equivalent is the Balor, they are not the same. Frankly the Balor has abilities and powers that the Balrog is never even implied to have. For however frightening the Balrog is, all it did was: Destroy a door that Gandalf was using magic to keep closed. Survive one fall that should have killed a living creature. Runs and then fights for a total of 10 days. And, most impressively tied in a fight against Gandalf (technically Gandalf got the killing blow, but died soon afterwards so I call that a tie).

The Balrog of Moria (Durins Bane) is far more of a force than a 'stock' DnD Balrog (which was inspired by the concept). For starters, check the size difference:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11120/111201466/4629377-9943972076-Balro.jpg

DnD Balors are 'Large' (around the same size as an Ogre).

Durins Bane (like the other six Balrogs) would be the equivalent of Demon Lords.


Now, I admit I don't have the stats for a 5e Balor in front of me, but I was under the impresison they could at least fly, shoot lightning, and summon creatures. None of which the Balrog has shown the capacity to do.

Balrogs have wings. They can fly. It doesn't need to summon anything even if it could (the Abyss isnt a thing in ME) as it has a literal army of Orcs at its disposal. Why bother? In it's arrogance it even told the Orcs to back off.


Remember that Gandalf never wears armor, even light armor, and his robes are never called out as magical. Unless his race has natural armor, or the Ring he carries offers armor; in DnD terms he probably is a wizard, sorcerer, or monk... Everyone else would be toting leather at least

Or he just doesn't want to wear armor, instead preferring to appear as a hobo and a scholar, or that he simply doesn't feel the need to do so thanks to his innate power as a Maia.

Also: Narya. Its described as having the power to inspire others to resist tyranny, hiding the wielder from remote observation (except by the wielder of the One) and giving resistance to the weariness of time:

"Take this ring, master," he said, "for your labours will be heavy; but it will support you in the weariness that you have taken upon yourself. For this is the Ring of Fire, and with it you may rekindle hearts in a world that grows chill."

As a Ring of Power, it likely has other abilities. We're talking artifact level stuff here.


And he did use battle magic at least once, disarming Gimli/Aragorn/Legolas with telekenisis and fire

Another reason why he felt he didnt need to wear armor. He was able to simultaneously incinerate an arrow from Legolas in flight, telekinesis Gimlis axe out of his hand and fling it away, and even set Anduril on fire and push it back, while blinding and stunning the three companions. In the books, when he parried the Balrog, he also shattered its sword. He was able to deflect the Balrogs whip with a barrier of energy too.

Doesnt feel he needs to wear armour, doesnt like wearing it, and feels it doesnt fit the persona he 'wears' making him look like a warrior, and not a scholar and guide.


Rewatched Fellowship of the Ring last night. So far, I've seen Gandalf use the following abilities:

Setting off the fireworks in the back of his cart. Produce Flame is the most direct route to have caused this, but Mage Hand and other options are possible depending on exactly what was set up back there.

"I am not a conjurer of cheap tricks". Thaumaturgy cantrip for sure (which is ironic)

Escaping the tower. Conjure Animals (a Giant Eagle is only CR1, so 2 of them with one casting of the spell) Animal messenger, using the moth to send a message to the Giant Eagle NPCs he knew.

Fighting the Control Weather spell Saruman was using on them in the Pass of Caradras. An unsuccessful Dispel Magic or Counterspell.

Creating Light with his staff. The Light cantrip without a doubt.

Keeping the Orcs at bay, and eventually the Balrog. Sanctuary, and / or Protection from Evil and Good.

If there's any other identifiable supernatural abilities he used, please let me know. So far I'm forced to conclude he is either a Cleric or Druid, and since (despite his claims) he does indeed seems a conjurer of cheap tricks (nothing yet above 3rd level) it may well be that he has levels in both. To get all the effects he has produced so far would require a Druid 5 / Cleric 1.

These are spells or powers he was depicted as using. In the book he clearly states words to the effect of: 'I have learnt every spell known to man and elves, and have several score memorized'. He's either uncharacteristically lying and big-noting himself; or he does know those spells - he just chooses to never use them.

Gandalf simply didn't rely on his spells or cast them (particularly around the Ring, so as not to reveal it's presence to Sauron). He preferred to counsel others into action, and to use his one greatest gift which was to 'inspire fire in the hearts of others' (a power that was amplified by Narya, the Ring of Power Gandalf wore). He saw no point in fighting unless it was absolutely necessary, and there was no other option.

This was a bloke that faced down a Nazgul and Balrog single handedly; yet he also spent a lot of his time hanging out in the Shire, performing party tricks and entertaining children with pyrotechnics. When he suspected that the Ring borne by Bilbo was The One Ring, he spent decades researching it (far away), rather than use magic to determine what it was (again so as not to reveal the rings presence to Sauron... or Sauroman whom he had begun to grow suspect of).

He's immortal, a cousin of Saurons, and has had millennium in ME alone to know how best to proceed. He also has a Wisdom 'the greatest of all the Maia' (i.e. comfortably over 20). It's safe to say he knew what he was doing.

The books are pretty clear that Gandalf intentionally withholds his true power (only revealing it rarely and in the direst of circumstances), and works from the background as council, guide and motivator supreme. His mandate on ME (as he saw it) was to get Men, Elves and Dwarves working together to bring down the Dark Lord - not to do it himself (which he was doubtful he could do even if he tried).

[GiantOctopodes]

These are spells or powers he was depicted as using. In the book he clearly states words to the effect of: 'I have learnt every spell known to man and elves, and have several score memorized'. He's either uncharacteristically lying and big-noting himself; or he does know those spells - he just chooses to never use them.


I'm quite certain that he is indeed much more powerful in the books, or claims to be, it's been many years since I read them. I just think it'll be interesting to determine exactly what is needed to reproduce Gandalf as depicted. Once I finish rewatching the other movies I'll add the notes from those as well. If anyone feels like tackling each and every actual described effect he produces in the books and cataloging exactly what spells are needed to reproduce those effects I would also be very interested to see that. My current theory is the opposite of yours, though- that he actually has relatively minor powers (at least as far as D&D power scale goes), but overdresses them substantially, and makes them out to be far more than they are through airs of mystery and exaggeration.

In terms of his greatest power, "inspiring fire in the hearts of others" can be done through persuasion checks, the ring could be one that granted advantage on such checks.

You talk a great deal about judging him based on what people (including him) say. I'm personally much more interested in judging him based on what he does.

[j_spencer93]

Lets see.

Divine being

Can manipulate fire/smoke in numerous ways
Actually can do something similar to fireball (literally weilds the sun)
can call lighting
can create light, sometimes it can also blind or repel evil
can create a invisible force field (sorta, more apparent in movies then books)
Can shatter a bridge/large stone
speak with animals
knows the words of power, one point claiming he knows almost them all
can break enchantment
can fill others with fear (only worked on weaker being in the book; lowly soldiers actually)
heat metal
create magical "pushes"
cure petrifications (when the hobbit looked into the palanthir)
his words alone can enchant (getting into the palace with his weapon)
telekinesis

fast enough to block arrows
great with a sword
can wield his sword alongside his staff
has surprising strength and speed for a human

Could keep going on but no need. He doesn't even show his power because of the laws of the gods. Can't really base it on what he does because he is restricted from doing anything. A great way to look at his power is to realize the Balor is literally a Balrog, seriously. In 1st edition they were the same. Even stated by designers, they are the same. He took one head on and defeat it by himself at the cost of his own life.

[Malifice]

I'm quite certain that he is indeed much more powerful in the books, or claims to be, it's been many years since I read them. I just think it'll be interesting to determine exactly what is needed to reproduce Gandalf as depicted. Once I finish rewatching the other movies I'll add the notes from those as well. If anyone feels like tackling each and every actual described effect he produces in the books and cataloging exactly what spells are needed to reproduce those effects I would also be very interested to see that. My current theory is the opposite of yours, though- that he actually has relatively minor powers (at least as far as D&D power scale goes), but overdresses them substantially, and makes them out to be far more than they are through airs of mystery and exaggeration.

In terms of his greatest power, "inspiring fire in the hearts of others" can be done through persuasion checks, the ring could be one that granted advantage on such checks.

You talk a great deal about judging him based on what people (including him) say. I'm personally much more interested in judging him based on what he does.

Personally I view the best way to depict his inspiration would be to make him a Lore Bard. Bardic inspiration and expertise in History and persuasion. His spells mainly focus around non visual and non evocation type spells (divination, enchantment and abjuration). Being effectively an angel means paladin fits him as well (divine smite for melee with glamdring and staff and divine sense to sense fallen Maia like the Balrog). It also arguably lets him turn undead (using the flame of anduil) such as what he does with the Nazgul, and gives him proficiency to wield his sword.

DM just let him refluff his bardic focus to a staff.

I like Bard 14/ paladin 5. He'll have 8 spells from magical secrets and a d10 inspiration dice (and cutting words). His song of rest is poetry (which he consistently uses throughout the books).

For spells you can make arguments for any and all of the followong (at a minimum): light, thaumaturgy, pyrotechnics, detect magic, shield, circle of power, summon steed (shadowfax), charm person, dispel Magic, counter spell, message, animal friendship, comprehend languages, heroism, lightning bolt, speak with animals, animal messenger, calm emotions, knock, shatter, suggestion, non detection, foresight, power word stun, mind blank, glibness, true seeing, find the path, remove curse, protection from evil

[j_spencer93]

Personally I view the best way to depict his inspiration would be to make him a Lore Bard. Bardic inspiration and expertise in History and persuasion. His spells mainly focus around non visual and non evocation type spells (divination, enchantment and abjuration). Being effectively an angel means paladin fits him as well (divine smite for melee with glamdring and staff and divine sense to sense fallen Maia like the Balrog). It also arguably lets him turn undead (using the flame of anduil) such as what he does with the Nazgul, and gives him proficiency to wield his sword.

DM just let him refluff his bardic focus to a staff.

I like Bard 14/ paladin 5. He'll have 8 spells from magical secrets and a d10 inspiration dice (and cutting words). His song of rest is poetry (which he consistently uses throughout the books).

For spells you can make arguments for any and all of the followong (at a minimum): light, thaumaturgy, pyrotechnics, detect magic, shield, circle of power, summon steed (shadowfax), charm person, dispel Magic, counter spell, message, animal friendship, comprehend languages, heroism, lightning bolt, speak with animals, animal messenger, calm emotions, knock, shatter, suggestion, non detection, foresight, power word stun, mind blank, glibness, true seeing, find the path, remove curse, protection from evil

Not sure about that. He is renown for his powers over fire, also he doesn't sing to do anything. He simply speaks strange words. Bard doesn't fit. A wizard with high knowledge of the word fits better.

[Malifice]

Not sure about that. He is renown for his powers over fire,

Fire in Gandalfs case meaning 'The fire in the hearts of men'. That was his great power - as a motivator, counsel, and inspiration.

Gandalf repeatedly demonstrates the power to sway the hearts and minds of elves, men and dwarves. This is an actual power, flowing directly from Manwë's commission, and it is much stronger than mere charisma or the ability to intellectually persuade. Tolkien describes it as "kindling" hope in their hearts ... almost as if his inner Maia fire spirit reaches out and stimulates a response in the spirits of those whom he inspires.

It's literally a supernatural power to motivate, inspire hope, and get things happening.

Saruman possess a similar, though more sinister, power of inspiration through his voice (i.e. Dominate person/ monster).


also he doesn't sing to do anything. He simply speaks strange words.

I suggest you read LoTR again. He not only sings but also recites poetry and ballads. A lot.

In the movies Gandalf in introduced singing and humming "The Road Goes Ever On" - a title that encompasses several walking songs that J. R. R. Tolkien wrote for his Middle-earth legendarium.


Bard doesn't fit. A wizard with high knowledge of the word fits better.

A Lore bard (6 proficiencies + expertise) has much more knowledge of the world than a Wizard ever will.

With the exception of the name 'Wizard' - Lore Bard fits almost perfectly.

[TheOOB]

If you must stat Gandalf, do so as a monster and not a PC.

Also several of the abilities he used where from magic items(his sword and ring, not his own abilities). None of his abilities are what one would consider D&D wizardry.

[Malifice]

If you must stat Gandalf, do so as a monster and not a PC.

Also several of the abilities he used where from magic items(his sword and ring, not his own abilities). None of his abilities are what one would consider D&D wizardry.

Depends entirely on his spell selection doesn't it?

He just didn't select flashy evocation or conjuration spells, sticking with divination, enchantments and abjurations.

He is depicted as being roughly equal in power to a Balrog (Balor), the Witch king of Angmar (a Wraith Sorcerer/ Warrior/ King several millennium old), Elrond, Sauruman and Galadriel. All of whom are (barring Sauron himself) the most powerful beings alive in Middle Earth.

CR/EL 20 is about right.

Chuck Sauron in at around CR/ EL 30 (without the Ring). Double his CR with it.

[TheOOB]

Depends entirely on his spell selection doesn't it?

He just didn't select flashy evocation or conjuration spells, sticking with divination, enchantments and abjurations.

He is depicted as being roughly equal in power to a Balrog (Balor), the Witch king of Angmar (a Wraith Sorcerer/ Warrior/ King several millennium old), Elrond, Sauruman and Galadriel. All of whom are (barring Sauron himself) the most powerful beings alive in Middle Earth.

CR/EL 20 is about right.

Chuck Sauron in at around CR/ EL 30 (without the Ring). Double his CR with it.

We doesn't cast spells he learned through years of study and prepared from a book, he is using the divine power of the istari(and some magic items). He doesn't know the spell telekinesis, that's just an ability he has.

Also you can't really stat sauron, in the books he literally never does anything other than manipulate events.

[j_spencer93]

We doesn't cast spells he learned through years of study and prepared from a book, he is using the divine power of the istari(and some magic items). He doesn't know the spell telekinesis, that's just an ability he has.

Also you can't really stat sauron, in the books he literally never does anything other than manipulate events.

Actually not true. He does mention "learning" them vaguely. And that isn't true for Sauron either, unless we are talking about the Lord of the Rings books only, and not the other books in the series.

[j_spencer93]

Fire in Gandalfs case meaning 'The fire in the hearts of men'. That was his great power - as a motivator, counsel, and inspiration.

Gandalf repeatedly demonstrates the power to sway the hearts and minds of elves, men and dwarves. This is an actual power, flowing directly from Manwë's commission, and it is much stronger than mere charisma or the ability to intellectually persuade. Tolkien describes it as "kindling" hope in their hearts ... almost as if his inner Maia fire spirit reaches out and stimulates a response in the spirits of those whom he inspires.

It's literally a supernatural power to motivate, inspire hope, and get things happening.

Saruman possess a similar, though more sinister, power of inspiration through his voice (i.e. Dominate person/ monster).



I suggest you read LoTR again. He not only sings but also recites poetry and ballads. A lot.

In the movies Gandalf in introduced singing and humming "The Road Goes Ever On" - a title that encompasses several walking songs that J. R. R. Tolkien wrote for his Middle-earth legendarium.



A Lore bard (6 proficiencies + expertise) has much more knowledge of the world than a Wizard ever will.

With the exception of the name 'Wizard' - Lore Bard fits almost perfectly.

No. He doesn't sing his spells. He speaks ancient words. I suggest rereading what I said. He does sing and recite poetry alot but not to do his magic. Also, about the fire part. Wrong again to a point, it is never actually stated which it refers too.
Him starting the fire while surrounded by the wolves in the first book, actually the fireball thing he does then too, heating the metal to cause Aragorn to drop it, etc. Numerous examples of him actually manipulating fire.
Then again, numerous times he does wash away fear, etc that supports your point.

I can sing and recite poetry too, doesn't make a me a bard.

[The_Pyromancer]

Personally, I would say an Aasimar Sorcerer/Cleric multiclass. His Cleric domain is Tempest, and his Sorcerous Origin is either something homebrewed or a re-fluffed Draconic origin so his power comes from inherently being a god. That way, he can fight with his quarterstaff and sword and sling around divine-flavored spells.

[j_spencer93]

Aasimar, Sorcerer (Favored Soul)/Cleric i think would work

[PoeticDwarf]

Not pure wizard since he also fights with his sword and staff not just spells? So maybe evocation wizard with couple of fighter levels?

cleric/wizard/paladin

maybe 6 levels in paladin, and the others in cleric and wizard.

Everyone can see he's about lv. 17+, or at least 13 or higher.

[Malifice]

Actually not true. He does mention "learning" them vaguely. And that isn't true for Sauron either, unless we are talking about the Lord of the Rings books only, and not the other books in the series.

Yeah.

Either way, Lore Bard covers both learning different lore (Magical secrets) and 'innate' spell casting.


[QUOTE=j_spencer93;19539768]No. He doesn't sing his spells. He speaks ancient words.

Can you point me to where it says Bards sing spells, or where it says Wizards dont?


He does sing and recite poetry alot but not to do his magic.

How do you know his poetry isnt just how he fluffs his spell casting or song of rest? He's a Maia remember - the very world was created via song.


Also, about the fire part. Wrong again to a point, it is never actually stated which it refers too.
Him starting the fire while surrounded by the wolves in the first book, actually the fireball thing he does then too, heating the metal to cause Aragorn to drop it, etc. Numerous examples of him actually manipulating fire.

Im not saying he doesnt magically manipulate fire. As a Maia he wields the flame imperishable (the fire of creation).

I am saying that his particular specialty was to to use the 'fire' to inspire the hearts of men. To fire them into action. To inspire them, to remove fear, and to guide them. And Tolkien was clear that Gandalf was using the flame imperishable to do this in a supernatural way.

It's why he was given the Ring of Fire - to amplify this very ability.

In the Third Age, Círdan, recognizing Gandalf's true nature as one of the Maiar from Valinor, gave him the ring to aid him in his labours. It is described as having the power to inspire others to resist tyranny, domination, and despair (in other words, evoking hope in others around the wielder), as well as giving resistance to the weariness of time.

Thats how Gandalf resisted corruption. He never sought personal or temporal power (unlike Sauruman) - in fact he actively rejected it when offered - nor did he stray too far from the goals of the Wizards (like the Blue Wizards and Radaghast). From the start of his mission he worked behind the scenes, subtly guiding and inspiring others to defeat Sauron and accept their own destines.

You wouldnt see Sauruman hanging in the Shire entertaining Hobbit kids with minor illusions and fire magic, or wandering around like a hobo.

[j_spencer93]

Yeah.

Either way, Lore Bard covers both learning different lore (Magical secrets) and 'innate' spell casting.

[QUOTE]

Can you point me to where it says Bards sing spells, or where it says Wizards dont?



How do you know his poetry isnt just how he fluffs his spell casting or song of rest? He's a Maia remember - the very world was created via song.



Im not saying he doesnt magically manipulate fire. As a Maia he wields the flame imperishable (the fire of creation).

I am saying that his particular specialty was to to use the 'fire' to inspire the hearts of men. To fire them into action. To inspire them, to remove fear, and to guide them. And Tolkien was clear that Gandalf was using the flame imperishable to do this in a supernatural way.

It's why he was given the Ring of Fire - to amplify this very ability.

In the Third Age, Círdan, recognizing Gandalf's true nature as one of the Maiar from Valinor, gave him the ring to aid him in his labours. It is described as having the power to inspire others to resist tyranny, domination, and despair (in other words, evoking hope in others around the wielder), as well as giving resistance to the weariness of time.

Thats how Gandalf resisted corruption. He never sought personal or temporal power (unlike Sauruman) - in fact he actively rejected it when offered - nor did he stray too far from the goals of the Wizards (like the Blue Wizards and Radaghast). From the start of his mission he worked behind the scenes, subtly guiding and inspiring others to defeat Sauron and accept their own destines.

You wouldnt see Sauruman hanging in the Shire entertaining Hobbit kids with minor illusions and fire magic, or wandering around like a hobo.

Don't quote LOTR wiki please lol. I have read the books numerous times. No where does it clarify exactly what that ring does. So arguing about it is pointless. Second, true about the classes, so once again could go ether way. Third, I actually can say he doesn't sing/recite poetry or buff them that way because he never sings/poetry before or after magic. Fourth, just realized Bards are the most powerful thing in Middle Earth. Fifth, that ring was never once stated to do anything actually in the books except help in his fire magic, MAYBE.

Either way, Personally I think an Aasimar, Sorcerer (Favored Soul, this fits to a T)/Bard (Lore Master). Ok you won me over, Bard fits. However, it works just as well as wizard or sorcerer.

Btw I own the entire Legendarium. I have read them so many time it isn't even funny. Even the Appendixes. A lot of the info presented in the other books in the appendixes, lost tales, and unfinished stories were dropped by Tolkein himself, so claiming they as fact as the wiki does literally goes against his own idea.

[Malifice]

Don't quote LOTR wiki please lol. I have read the books numerous times. No where does it clarify exactly what that ring does. So arguing about it is pointless. Second, true about the classes, so once again could go ether way. Third, I actually can say he doesn't sing/recite poetry or buff them that way because he never sings/poetry before or after magic. Fourth, just realized Bards are the most powerful thing in Middle Earth. Fifth, that ring was never once stated to do anything actually in the books except help in his fire magic, MAYBE.

Either way, Personally I think an Aasimar, Sorcerer (Favored Soul, this fits to a T)/Bard (Lore Master). Ok you won me over, Bard fits. However, it works just as well as wizard or sorcerer.

Btw I own the entire Legendarium. I have read them so many time it isn't even funny. Even the Appendixes. A lot of the info presented in the other books in the appendixes, lost tales, and unfinished stories were dropped by Tolkein himself, so claiming they as fact as the wiki does literally goes against his own idea.

Read appendix B, fourth paragraph, the Tale of Years.

Throughout the Third Age the guardianship of the Three Rings was known only to those who possessed them. But at the end it became known that they had been held at first by the three greatest of the Eldar: Gil-Galad, Galadriel and Círdan. The ring of Gil-Galad was given by him to Elrond; but Círdan surrendered his to Mithrandir. For Círdan saw further and deeper than any other in Middle-earth, and he welcomed Mithrandir at the Grey Havens, knowing whence he came and whither he would return.

"Take this ring, Master," he said, "for your labours will be heavy**; but it will support you in the weariness that you have taken upon yourself. For this is the Ring of Fire, and with it you may rekindle hearts in a world that grows chill.

Also apocrypha from Tolkien himself clearly indicated that Gandalfs main 'power' was the ability to motivate, guide and inspire men to action, and Narya helped him in this task.

Same deal with Sauruman. Except he used his power to dominate and enchant men. He had a voice that no-one aside from the mighty could resist.

[j_spencer93]

Read appendix B, fourth paragraph, the Tale of Years.

Throughout the Third Age the guardianship of the Three Rings was known only to those who possessed them. But at the end it became known that they had been held at first by the three greatest of the Eldar: Gil-Galad, Galadriel and Círdan. The ring of Gil-Galad was given by him to Elrond; but Círdan surrendered his to Mithrandir. For Círdan saw further and deeper than any other in Middle-earth, and he welcomed Mithrandir at the Grey Havens, knowing whence he came and whither he would return.

"Take this ring, Master," he said, "for your labours will be heavy**; but it will support you in the weariness that you have taken upon yourself. For this is the Ring of Fire, and with it you may rekindle hearts in a world that grows chill.

Also apocrypha from Tolkien himself clearly indicated that Gandalfs main 'power' was the ability to motivate, guide and inspire men to action, and Narya helped him in this task.

Same deal with Sauruman. Except he used his power to dominate and enchant men. He had a voice that no-one aside from the mighty could resist.

how have i missed that? I must point out though, they both showcased that ability far before he got that ring. And Saruman himself was good enough to fool even the elves (Elrond and Galadriel to a lesser degree) without a ring.

[Malifice]

how have i missed that? I must point out though, they both showcased that ability far before he got that ring. And Saruman himself was good enough to fool even the elves (Elrond and Galadriel to a lesser degree) without a ring.

Agree re Sauruman. Dude would be easy to represent as an evil enchanter (dominate person/ create thrall works a treat).

Gandalf never really dominated anyone. Commanded occasionally (as a last resort). He spent his time on ME forging alliances and establishing himself with all the major people's, kingdoms and realms, and worked within them to get them to work together against Sauron.

The rohirrim would be doomed without his intervention. Same as the gondorians. He had a hand in bringing them together against Sauron also. The Dwarves of Ereabor owe their existence to him. He counted Elrond of Rivendell and Galadriel as allies. Even in the shire he was well known and had a presence.

He couldnt save arnor however.

For a wandering lore master who is extremely skilled with persuasion, diplomacy and history and other lores, who uses enchantment and abjuration Magic, and had a supernatural gift for inspiring others, Lore Bard fits perfect.

I'm just adding a splash of devotion paladin in to reflect his proficiency with weapons, connection to the West, ability to sense other Maia (including fallen Maia) ability to 'turn' the Nazgul, and give him more motivation to enter melee (which he does a lot in the movie). Divine smite with his staff or sword.

I make him a paladin 5/ bard 14 only to leave room for Sauruman the White to be straight 20th level, and slightly edge him out.

When Gandalf becomes the White he gains a level (of paladin) in order to add his charisma to daves, and gains 9th level spell slots ;)

Although I do agree he's probably better represented as a 'monster' built from scratch.

[Shining Wrath]

We doesn't cast spells he learned through years of study and prepared from a book, he is using the divine power of the istari(and some magic items). He doesn't know the spell telekinesis, that's just an ability he has.

Also you can't really stat sauron, in the books he literally never does anything other than manipulate events.

As already noted herein, he mentions at the West Wall of Moria having once known "every spell of this sort in the tongues of elves, and men, and orcs". When trying to lock the door against the orcs fleeing the tomb, he cast a spell, and when the Balrog took hold of the door on the other side, it began a counterspell. At which point Gandalf spoke a Word of Command - not sure what that is.

There is no question that Gandalf knew, and used, magic spells.


"Then something came into the chamber - I felt it through the door, and the orcs themselves were afraid and fell silent. It laid hold of the iron ring, and then it perceived me and my spell."

[Dimcair]

Gandalf, is a wizard. He's called the white wizard. With the proficiency system, this allows a high level of any class to be as good as a fighter. A fighter just gets more attacks. A 20 level wizard is better with sword than any 1st level fighter, he should be. Gandalf was also a Maia, same as Sauron, and Saruman, even more related to the Balrog than he was to any mortal. He probably had 20's in all stats. His spell casting could be anything.

Classic fallacy of confusing a class and a title....

[Naanomi]

Saruman was a fiend/old one warlock; his patron was a big creepy eye thing...

[Thrudd]

He would be a custom class, a spontaneous caster with his own spell list and features. Certainly some of the things he does in the books are the inspiration for various spells in the first editions of the game.

Describe all the things he clearly does in the books:
Ventriloquism/throws voice
Affect normal fires
Maybe invisibility (goblin town)
Light/continual light
Pyrotechnics (fireworks)
Fire seeds (pinecones)
Knock/wizard lock
Speak with animals
Turn undead(drives away the nazgul)
Summon animals (shadowfax and gwaihir)
Maybe animal friendship
Not sure what we would call his breaking of the khazad dum bridge- shatter?

Implies he might have minor healing ability, but middle earth doesnt really do magical/divine healing, its treated as knowledge and art.

Certainly some type of inspiration ability, perhaps inspire courage (Theoden)
But he does not charm or use magical suggestion, thats what Saruman does.

Some of his abilities would be racial cantrips/spell like abilities. When he dies and is resurrected/reincarnated, he comes back with additional divine type abilities.

Other abilities might be granted by the ring (maybe the fire affecting, and inspiration/fire of the heart)
Some are clearly things he researched and learned at one point, like the spells to open things.

He is proficient with a sword, but there is no suggestion or indication that he is as skilled at arms as the warriors like Aragorn, Boromir and Eomer, so I dont think its necessary to say he has fighter levels.

[weaseldust]

Describe all the things he clearly does in the books:
Ventriloquism/throws voice
Affect normal fires
Maybe invisibility (goblin town)
Light/continual light
Pyrotechnics (fireworks)
Fire seeds (pinecones)
Knock/wizard lock
Speak with animals
Turn undead(drives away the nazgul)
Summon animals (shadowfax and gwaihir)
Maybe animal friendship
Not sure what we would call his breaking of the khazad dum bridge- shatter?

Implies he might have minor healing ability, but middle earth doesnt really do magical/divine healing, its treated as knowledge and art.

Certainly some type of inspiration ability, perhaps inspire courage (Theoden)
But he does not charm or use magical suggestion, thats what Saruman does.

You can do most of that with 3 levels in Devotion Paladin and >3 in Lore Bard. The Bard can get Minor Illusion for the ventriloquism, Light, Invisibility, Speak with Animals, Animal Messenger to call for his eagle chum, Knock and Shatter. The Paladin gets Turn the Unholy (I'm not sure if Nazgul count as undead, but I'm sure they count as unholy) and Find Steed for his horse.

Lay on Hands covers any healing ability, and Bardic Inspiration makes him inspirational.

The only things I'm not sure about are the fireworks and pine cones. The fireworks might just be a result of proficiency with alchemist's supplies, or otherwise as a Bard he could have stolen the spell Pyrotechnics and be using it in an unusual way. The pine cones could be done with Produce Flame, or maybe Fire Bolt, but the Bard doesn't get those. He could take one level in Druid or Nature Cleric, but I find it neater not to give him levels in classes that would let him prepare spells he's shown no evidence of knowing, so I'd prefer to give him one level in Favoured Soul instead and explain the pine cones as being lit by Fire Bolt. Alternatively, creating a spell similar to Fire Seeds would do it, and the Bard could steal that.

It's a bit puzzling given this way of making Gandalf that he doesn't wear armour, but it could be that he has leather underneath his robes, or it could be he knows and prefers to cast Mage Armour. Perhaps he values stealthiness?

[Malifice]

He would be a custom class, a spontaneous caster with his own spell list and features. Certainly some of the things he does in the books are the inspiration for various spells in the first editions of the game.

Describe all the things he clearly does in the books:
Ventriloquism/throws voice
Affect normal fires
Maybe invisibility (goblin town)
Light/continual light
Pyrotechnics (fireworks)
Fire seeds (pinecones)
Knock/wizard lock
Speak with animals
Turn undead(drives away the nazgul)
Summon animals (shadowfax and gwaihir)
Maybe animal friendship
Not sure what we would call his breaking of the khazad dum bridge- shatter?

Implies he might have minor healing ability, but middle earth doesnt really do magical/divine healing, its treated as knowledge and art.

Certainly some type of inspiration ability, perhaps inspire courage (Theoden)
But he does not charm or use magical suggestion, thats what Saruman does.

Some of his abilities would be racial cantrips/spell like abilities. When he dies and is resurrected/reincarnated, he comes back with additional divine type abilities.

Other abilities might be granted by the ring (maybe the fire affecting, and inspiration/fire of the heart)
Some are clearly things he researched and learned at one point, like the spells to open things.

He is proficient with a sword, but there is no suggestion or indication that he is as skilled at arms as the warriors like Aragorn, Boromir and Eomer, so I dont think its necessary to say he has fighter levels.

Sounds like a multiclassed Bard/ paladin.

;)

[Malifice]

It's a bit puzzling given this way of making Gandalf that he doesn't wear armour, but it could be that he has leather underneath his robes, or it could be he knows and prefers to cast Mage Armour. Perhaps he values stealthiness?

He just prefers not wearing it?

His chosen form is 'old hermit/ lore master/ entertainer at Hobbit kids parties'.

Or maybe, it's due to the fact as a Maia he feels he doesn't have to (or has other protections that make it pointless or just not worth the hassle).

It's not like he ever encounters much stuff that poses him any sort of challenge, and the rare things that do (Balrog, Sauruman, Nazgul etc) it's doubtful armor would do jack squat anyways.

Armor just isn't his thing.

[Whyrocknodie]

If you want to insert Gandalf into a D&D campaign, I'd make him a wizard. He might have proficiency with a sword if you like, maybe as a racial trait like an elf gets - he could just swing it around with enthusiasm though, as opposed to proficiency. He's pretty wizardy, if you ask me.

If on the other hand you want to use D&D to play in a Lord of the Rings style universe, you've got a lot of work to do with the possible powers and abilities characters can wield - you don't tend to see flying wizards throwing magic missiles and creating walls of ice, for example.

[Malifice]

My take:

Gandalf the Gray
Medium celestial (appears humanoid), NG
Armor Class: 16 (natural armor)
Hit Points: 215 (19d8+38)
Speed 30 ft.
STR 14 (+2) DEX 13 (+1) CON (15 +2) INT 20 (+5) WIS 22 (+6) CHA 21 (+5)
Saving Throws: Str +5, Dex +4, Con +5, Int +14, Wis +15, Cha +14
Skills Arcana +17, History +17, Persuasion +17, Insight +18, Investigation +11, Perception +12, Performance +11
Senses passive Perception 22 (Truesight)
Languages all (Tongues)
Challenge: 19
Legendary Resistance (3/Day): If Gandalf fails a saving throw, he can choose to succeed instead.
Immutable Form: Gandalf is immune to any spell or effect that would alter his form.
Magic Resistance: Gandalf has advantage on saving throws against spells and other magical effects.
Magic Weapons: Gandalfs weapon attacks are magical.

Spellcasting: Gandalf is a 16th-level spellcaster. His spellcasting ability is Charisma (spell save DC 21, +13 to hit with spell attacks). Gandalf has the following spells prepared:
Cantrips (at will): friends, guidance, light, mage hand, thaumaturgy
1st level (4 slots): animal friendship, command, detect evil and good, shield
2nd level (4 slots): aid, suggestion, animal messenger, shatter
3rd level (4 slots): counterspell, lightning bolt, non detection, remove curse
4th level (3 slots): compulsion, locate creature, control water
5th level (2 slot): hold monster, legend lore, telekinesis
6th level (1 slot): wall of ice, true seeing
7th level (1 slot): delayed blast fireball (pine cones instead of gems), divine word
8th level (1 slot): Mind blank

Actions
Multi attack. Melee Weapon Attack: Gandalf attacks once with his sword and once with his staff. +10 to hit, reach 5 ft. one or two targets. Hit: Either 12 (2d8 + 4) slashing or 8 (1d8 +4) bludgeoning damage. On a hit, Gandalf can expend a spell slot and inflict an extra (8) 2d8 radiant damage per spell level expended (maximum +10d8)

Great Inspiration: Gandalf can grant a bardic inspiration die (d10) up to 5 times per short rest.

Equipment:
Glamdring (+2 longsword) deals an extra 1d8 slashing damage
Grey staff of Aman (+2 Staff, +2 to spell attack rolls and to the DC of spells cast, may be used as a spell focus, wielder can channel a spell slot to unleash a blast of force against a single target within 30’. This requires a spell attack roll to hit and deals 2d8 force damage per level of spell slot used. On a hit, the target must also make a Strength save or be shoved back 10’ or knocked prone (Gandalfs choice)
Narya (Ring of power. Sets Gandalfs AC to 15+dex, grants resistance to fire, +3 to all saving throws, makes wearer immune to the effects of fatigue, allows the wielder to cast Heroism at will (as a 9th level slot, targeting up to 9 creatures, and granting 5 temp HP per round)

[djreynolds]

My take:

Gandalf the Gray
Medium celestial (appears humanoid), NG
Armor Class: 16 (natural armor)
Hit Points: 215 (19d8+38)
Speed 30 ft.
STR 14 (+2) DEX 13 (+1) CON (15 +2) INT 20 (+5) WIS 22 (+6) CHA 21 (+5)
Saving Throws: Str +5, Dex +4, Con +5, Int +14, Wis +15, Cha +14
Skills Arcana +17, History +17, Persuasion +17, Insight +18, Investigation +11, Perception +12, Performance +11
Senses passive Perception 22 (Truesight)
Languages all (Tongues)
Challenge: 19
Legendary Resistance (3/Day): If Gandalf fails a saving throw, he can choose to succeed instead.
Immutable Form: Gandalf is immune to any spell or effect that would alter his form.
Magic Resistance: Gandalf has advantage on saving throws against spells and other magical effects.
Magic Weapons: Gandalfs weapon attacks are magical.

Spellcasting: Gandalf is a 16th-level spellcaster. His spellcasting ability is Charisma (spell save DC 21, +13 to hit with spell attacks). Gandalf has the following spells prepared:
Cantrips (at will): friends, guidance, light, mage hand, thaumaturgy
1st level (4 slots): animal friendship, command, detect evil and good, shield
2nd level (4 slots): aid, suggestion, animal messenger, shatter
3rd level (4 slots): counterspell, lightning bolt, non detection, remove curse
4th level (3 slots): compulsion, locate creature, control water
5th level (2 slot): hold monster, legend lore, telekinesis
6th level (1 slot): wall of ice, true seeing
7th level (1 slot): delayed blast fireball (pine cones instead of gems), divine word
8th level (1 slot): Mind blank

Actions
Multi attack. Melee Weapon Attack: Gandalf attacks once with his sword and once with his staff. +10 to hit, reach 5 ft. one or two targets. Hit: Either 12 (2d8 + 4) slashing or 8 (1d8 +4) bludgeoning damage. On a hit, Gandalf can expend a spell slot and inflict an extra (8) 2d8 radiant damage per spell level expended (maximum +10d8)

Great Inspiration: Gandalf can grant a bardic inspiration die (d10) up to 5 times per short rest.

Equipment:
Glamdring (+2 longsword) deals an extra 1d8 slashing damage
Grey staff of Aman (+2 Staff, +2 to spell attack rolls and to the DC of spells cast, may be used as a spell focus, wielder can channel a spell slot to unleash a blast of force against a single target within 30’. This requires a spell attack roll to hit and deals 2d8 force damage per level of spell slot used. On a hit, the target must also make a Strength save or be shoved back 10’ or knocked prone (Gandalfs choice)
Narya (Ring of power. Sets Gandalfs AC to 15+dex, grants resistance to fire, +3 to all saving throws, makes wearer immune to the effects of fatigue, allows the wielder to cast Heroism at will (as a 9th level slot, targeting up to 9 creatures, and granting 5 temp HP per round)

Much better than I just calling him a wizard with a 20 in everything. Well Done!!!!