Roleplaying 'Reform(ing) Evil'

[atemu1234]

How should I roleplay a character - a former Tiefling Warlord (occupation, not class) who was defeated and now is trying to be good, but doesn't really know how?

[LoyalPaladin]

How far are you trying to reform? Are we talking CE to LG? NE to NG? Maybe just True neutral leaning evil to true neutral leaning good?

I think it's mostly in the actions. You can fall down along the way, but make sure you stand up and try harder next time.

[Segev]

In addition to the "what flavor of Good" question above, one might ask how one "doesn't know how" to be good.

To answer that a little bit, I would start with one of the more classic definitions of good behavior's proscriptions: don't hurt others. The formerly-evil warlord striving to "be good" will start by looking for these sorts of definitions, and will find himself paralyzed by them. He now can't do anything that doesn't in some way hurt another; where's the line, though? Does it "hurt" somebody to trade what you need for something you have, when you're "taking" from them in the process? (Obviously, the answer is 'no,' but our wannabe-redeemed fellow may not be able to tell for sure.)

Also, many evil people view "good" as "weak," so they will have a hard time figuring out how to be "weak."


It works best with a morality pet/external conscience character, I think. On some level, everybody, no matter how evil, knows when they're engaging in villainy; the first serious step for the would-be reformer would therefore be to recognize those instances and...choose otherwise. He may have to fight his own greed or anger to do it, but he should start there.

[atemu1234]

How far are you trying to reform? Are we talking CE to LG? NE to NG? Maybe just True neutral leaning evil to true neutral leaning good?

I think it's mostly in the actions. You can fall down along the way, but make sure you stand up and try harder next time.

Let's say true neutral. He does things that others consider normal things (like go through the day without brutally murdering innocents) but thinks it's some great big accomplishment.

[Telonius]

Breaking out the big cliche:

Ask yourself, what's his motivation?

Why did he decide to stop acting like such a jerk? Simply "losing a war" isn't necessarily the whole explanation. He could have just as easily sworn revenge on the ones who defeated him. What was it that made him go the other way?

[Honest Tiefling]

Breaking out the big cliche:

Ask yourself, what's his motivation?

Why did he decide to stop acting like such a jerk? Simply "losing a war" isn't necessarily the whole explanation. He could have just as easily sworn revenge on the ones who defeated him. What was it that made him go the other way?

This I must agree with. What was his mentality before, and what is it now? Why does he think that murdering the innocent isn't appropriate behavior now? What changed for him?

[atemu1234]

This I must agree with. What was his mentality before, and what is it now? Why does he think that murdering the innocent isn't appropriate behavior now? What changed for him?

He grew up thinking good was inherently weak and that weakness is the worst trait someone can possess. He was beaten by a good guy. He now thinks that being good is a strength. So he wants to be strong.

[dascarletm]

He grew up thinking good was inherently weak and that weakness is the worst trait someone can possess. He was beaten by a good guy. He now thinks that being good is a strength. So he wants to be strong.

So he is still self-serving in his want to do good. Do you plan on your character eventually seeing the error in his line of thinking? yadda yadda true altruism etc. etc.

[Honest Tiefling]

Perhaps he is a more contemplative sort. He does good (but likely is not good) to understand good, to see why it has defeated him. He must find out the answer to why and how it was able to defeat him. Maybe he thinks only by doing good and trying to get into the mindset will he understand this conundrum.

Or he could be more tactical. He does not really care for good, but needs to understand the tactics and mindset of those who do good to better understand how to defeat him. To defeat something, one must think like it.

Neither of these options are really good aligned, but I would say close enough to function well enough within a good aligned party. Which I assume is the goal, as it would be silly to use this character in an evil aligned party. However, they are also the best I can do without knowing the why he thinks good is now stronger then evil. Perhaps something of conviction? There is also the trope that evil betrays evil more easily, but I admit to not being a fan of that.

[Telonius]

Okay, so the emotion that pushes his buttons is shame, and his goal is strength. He's not pursuing Good as a goal in itself, which is probably why he "doesn't know what he's doing." He's focusing on the strength, on what it can give him. You could take that a couple of different ways. He might kind of "overdo it" if he's trying to act in good ways - think, slinging the old lady across his shoulder and carrying her across the street. (It doesn't have to be that kind of caricature, just to give you an idea of the sort of mistakes he might make). Or, he might treat every possible meritorious act as a kind of competition, either with himself or others.

Circling back to the shame, it might be interesting to have him try to hide his past - or at least, really not like it when it's brought up. Would he assume a new identity?

[Scheming Wizard]

I think the main thing is to make his transition a gradual one. It generally doesn't make sense for a character to jump from Lawful evil to Chaotic good one day. Darth Vader did it, but that was an unusual circumstance.

Think more like his fall to the dark side. It starts with something small like his illegal relationship with Padme. Not evil but against Jedi rules. Then he murders the Sand People. That is more questionable. They were kidnapping people and starving them to death, and he kills them for revenge for killing his mother. That is solidly neutral maybe even a little evil. Then he helps the Emperor kill Mace Windu which was evil but also heat of the moment. Finally he murders the younglings which is inarguably evil.

Your Tiefling could not kill a pickpocket who stole from him. Instead just beating him up or intimidating him. Then he goes with the party on a rescue mission. He does it for a reward while the rest of the party has more altruistic motives, but they all do the same work. Finally one session someone asks for help, but the part is missing or busy. There wont be a reward, but he decides to help anyway. Alternatively the party could be going into a hopeless battle and he goes anyway even though the risk completely outweighs any reward.

[Flickerdart]

The fundamental difference is that Good wants to help others and Evil wants to help itself. But what does "itself" mean? Evil people can have friends, families, clans, even nations. An Evil person trying to do good might fall into the trap of simply treating someone in need as part of their "in-group" and then inflicting harm upon some third party for that in-group's benefit.

Consider your warlord. Presumably, he has seen the error of his ways (murder and pillage = bad). Now he comes upon a village full of people who are in trouble. Please help us, they beg him, there is nothing to eat and we are starving. The warlord is determined to help these people, so he organizes them into formation, arms them, and has them assault the nearby baron's castle to seize some food by force of arms.

Is that a Good act? Not really - he could have considered that the baron probably doesn't deserve to be attacked and gone to find a peaceful solution, but he's barely used to thinking about other people, never mind trying to make sure everyone is happy.

[ShaneMRoth]

How should I roleplay a character - a former Tiefling Warlord (occupation, not class) who was defeated and now is trying to be good, but doesn't really know how?

You should roleplay that character like you were the underdog for an Academy Award for Best Supporting Tiefling.

Mechanically, just pick a Neutral alignment that's a good fit and go full Daniel Day-Lewis on that Tiefling.

[SkipSandwich]

The fundamental difference is that Good wants to help others and Evil wants to help itself. But what does "itself" mean? Evil people can have friends, families, clans, even nations. An Evil person trying to do good might fall into the trap of simply treating someone in need as part of their "in-group" and then inflicting harm upon some third party for that in-group's benefit.

Consider your warlord. Presumably, he has seen the error of his ways (murder and pillage = bad). Now he comes upon a village full of people who are in trouble. Please help us, they beg him, there is nothing to eat and we are starving. The warlord is determined to help these people, so he organizes them into formation, arms them, and has them assault the nearby baron's castle to seize some food by force of arms.

Is that a Good act? Not really - he could have considered that the baron probably doesn't deserve to be attacked and gone to find a peaceful solution, but he's barely used to thinking about other people, never mind trying to make sure everyone is happy.

This.

Also, from another viewpoint, if the character's past transgressions are heinous enough, "doesn't know how" could describe less an misunderstanding of what good is, and more a level of doubt about their own redeemability (See Xena of the titular Xena:Warrior Princess for a good example of such a character).

[Thealtruistorc]

Your character wants to understand what makes Good so good, correct? As with anything, the best way to understand something is to experience it done. Let him observe what good-aligned people do, and have him mimic them in what ways he can take note of. Maybe he could imprint on certain aspects of what he considers good, and follow those who to him exemplify those edicts. If given enough time, have him approach them and try and deliberate with them about what they feel "good" really is (this opens up some great opportunities for roleplaying as well as philosophical discussion, a concept normally absent from the gaming table but potent on these boards). Over time, have the warlord start to understand the motivations that drive people to be good, and the results that they obtain from them ("people like it when I help them, so they help me in return when I'm troubled").

Also, I couldn't help but think of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OORsz2d1H7s


You should roleplay that character like you were the underdog for an Academy Award for Best Supporting Tiefling.

Mechanically, just pick a Neutral alignment that's a good fit and go full Daniel Day-Lewis on that Tiefling.

Do I have permission to sig this?

[ShaneMRoth]

Do I have permission to sig this?

Yes, you do.