Looking for playable monster with certain qualities

[Cirrylius]

Okay. I have friend (no really) who's making my life a living hell pestering me about a new character idea; we're starting a 16th level campaign, everything's on the table, and he wants to play a monster. Sadly, his grasp of the rules is... spotty, and my encyclopedic knowledge of monsters is... less than encyclopedic. He wants to play something that doesn't eat, sleep, or breathe, that can fly, and he changes the topic when I suggest undead.

That's about it.

For reference, he started with a Monster of Legend gargoyle, tossed on Insectile to make it creepy, a level of Fighter because I don't know, and convinced the DM to let him take three negative levels that will be eliminated as he levels up. He didn't realize until later that this left him with a single HD in a 16th level campaign, so now he's flailing wildly (for reference, his next choice was a wyvern).

I hope it doesn't devalue the GitP hivemind too much to act as a search engine to help my spectacular inability to assist this guy, because I'm totally asking the GitP hivemind to act as a search engine so I don't lose my mind assisting this guy.

[IZ42]

I think he might want to look at a construct, though I don't know any flying ones off the top of my head.

[Nevershutup]

A winged(+2(?) LA) warforged would work, non-native outsiders would only need to breathe, and any construct would work, as well as Deathless from the Book of Exalted Deeds.

A hound archon is +5 LA, 6HD
A trumpet archon is +8 LA, 6HD
A succubus is +6 LA, 6HD
Mephits are all +3 LA, 3HD


Those are are just a few examples after looking through the Monster Manual. Also, point out the Necklace of Adaptation and Ring of Sustenance to him, as they seem to be exactly what he wants. I hope this helps!

[Flickerdart]

The following creature types don't eat, sleep, or breathe: constructs, elementals, and undead. If undead are poopooed, you're looking at elemental type creatures and magic robots.

Magic robots are easy - take any old monster and slap on seven to ten levels of Green Star Adept. actually, you can do the same thing with elementals and Elemental Savant. What is it with Complete Arcane and making people into things with no metabolism?

Assuming you want to use your class levels more wisely, there are templates. Dustform works, but it's icky for many reasons like not being able to talk. Half-golem works but there's no information about LA, and it's generally a weird 3.0 template. As far as I know, there's no template that makes you an elemental unless you are already one.

Savage Species is your last resort, and provides a monster class for playing an Air Elemental, but without limbs or a mouth it may be challenging to do stuff.

[NevinPL]

He wants to play something that doesn't eat, sleep, or breathe, that can fly, and he changes the topic when I suggest undead.

Well if you're not against making it a patchwork:

eating and sleeping could be "fixed" with the mentioned Ring of Sustenance. At least the eating part. Also, races like Elves, or Elan don't sleep.
the "doesn't breathe", can be acquired by Air Genasi, or Dust Para-Genasi from Dragon 297.
flying could be acquired by half-celestial\dragon\fiend template.


In general, elemental creatures, constructs, fiends, etc. don't have humanoid metabolism, so they don't need some, or all of the "meatbaggy" essentials.


P.S.
Mentioned Savage Species, is a first place to look for "monsters as PC" ideas, help.

[Necroticplague]

By 'change the subject' do you mean he became distracted while talking, or just doesn't want to play an undead character? Because it seems being a Ghost would be the easiest answer. Playing a Warforged and using his WBL to get a wing graft also seems like a pretty easy option.

If you don't mind abusing the rules a bit, Warforged with Human Heritage (arguably qualifies, since Warforged were made by humans) could have the Winged template applied (since it's technically a humanoid), producing an LA2 character with one feat used up.

[JyP]

One less monstruous option would be to take a elan psion (nomad) 7 (sustenance and flight through psionics). To remove the need to sleep you would need something else. Or if you start at 16th level, it means you can play a psionic mindflayer (with one class level, but 8 RHD I think).

Another option is the Guardian Monster template from Dungeonscape to get rid of the need to sleep (but having eyes giving light for added weirdness). There's no LA with it though, would have to compute it.

Another way would be a 2-headed monster - if only one head is sleeping at a time.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Dragonborn Warforged, with the wings aspect. Dragonborn specifically retain their original type and subtypes, so he would be a Construct (Living Construct, Dragonblood) and still have all of the construct and living construct traits. Alternatively, just a Warforged with the Feathered Wings graft in Fiend Folio would work. Neither of those has any sort of level adjustment.

If he wants something weird, then consider the following: Air Gnome (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/elementalRacialVariants.htm#racesOfAir), Tauric Creature (MM2, SS, LA +3) combining it with a Lammasu (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/lammasu.htm), with a Ring of Sustenance. That gives us the following monster race:

Large size Monstrous Humanoid, appears similar to a Wemic (https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&site=imghp&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1920&bih=1019&q=wemic&oq=wemic&gs_l=img.3..0l2j0i24j0i10i24l2j0i24l2j0i10i24l3.76 9.1337.0.1511.5.5.0.0.0.0.167.576.2j3.5.0....0...1 ac.1.64.img..0.5.574.jYuKG44srxE) but the humanoid portion's facial features are like those of a gnome, and the lion portion has feathered wings on its shoulders.
Str +12, Dex +2, Con +6.
30 ft. land speed, fly 60 ft. (average).
Darkvision 60 ft.
Racial Hit Dice: It begins with eight levels of monstrous humanoid, which provide 8d8 Hit Dice, a base attack bonus of +8, and base saving throw bonuses of Fort +6, Ref +6, and Will +2.
Racial Skills: Its monstrous humanoid levels give it skill points equal to 11 × (2 + Int modifier). Its class skills are Concentration, Diplomacy, Knowledge (arcana), Listen, Sense Motive, and Spot.
Racial Feats: Its monstrous humanoid levels give it three feats.
+10 natural armor.
Spellcasting: It casts spells as a 7th-level Cleric, and can choose spells from the cleric spell list, plus any two of the following domains: Good, Healing, Knowledge, or Law.
Magic Circle against Evil (Su): It radiates a continuous magic circle against evil that affects a 20-foot radius.
Spell-Like Abilities: 2/day—greater invisibility (self only); 1/day—dimension door. Caster level 7th.
Pounce (Ex): If it charges a foe, it can make a full attack, including two rake attacks.
Rake (Ex): Attack bonus as primary attack, damage 1d6 + 1/2 Str bonus.
Natural Weapons: Two claws, 1d6+Str primary, or they can be used to make secondary attacks at a -5 penalty and only add 1/2 its Str bonus to damage.
Automatic Languages: Gnomish and Common.
Level adjustment: +3
Total ECL: 11

As a 16th level character, I would start with one level of Cloistered Cleric (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#clericVariantCloistere dCleric) for three additional domains (the two it gets from racial spellcasting don't grant the domain power, just the domain spell list). Given the creature's shape there is precedent (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/inevitable.htm#zelekhut) for allowing it to qualify for feats and prestige classes as though it had Mounted Combat, and to be treated as being on a mount when it's not. Therefore, take three levels of Prestige Paladin (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/prestigiousCharacterClasses.htm#prestigePaladin) and then start taking Contemplative. That's LA +3/ Monstrous Humanoid 8/ Cloistered Cleric 1/ Prestige Paladin 3/ Contemplative 1+. Trade the Prestige Paladin's Special Mount for Charging Smite in PH2. His racial domain spell lists should be Healing and Law, at Cleric 1 he should trade the ability to spontaneously cast Cure spells for the ability to spontaneously convert prepared spells into Healing domain spells (PH2), his Cleric domains should be Planning and Spell and he should trade his free Knowledge domain for Knowledge Devotion, and his Contemplative domain can be any domain he wants. If he gets high enough level to get a second domain from Contemplative it should be Destiny from Races of Destiny so he can DMM: Persist its 9th level spell.

Feats with two flaws (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/characterFlaws.htm) (more here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?258440-The-quot-Best-quot-Flaws#30)) and the Planning domain should be Ride-By Attack, Spirited Charge, Multiattack, Power Attack, Leap Attack, Extend Spell, Persistent Spell, DMM: Persistent, and Practiced Spellcaster. He should use a large +1 Valorous Lance two-handed, it should have a Wand Chamber with a Wand of Rhino's Rush (SC, Paladin list) in it. He should have a Lesser Metamagic Rod of Extend, a Metamagic Rod of Extend, a standard Strand of Prayer Beads with the Bead of Smiting removed (9,000 gp per DMG pricing), a Reliquary Holy Symbol (MIC), a 3rd level Pearl of Power, a Monk's Belt, a Ring of Sustenance, a Rod of Bodily Restoration (MIC), and a pile of Night Sticks (LM). He's also hired an NPC spellcaster to put Greater Magic Fang (+1 to all) on him at caster level 20th (600 gp), and another to use Permanency on it at caster level 20th (8,500 gp).

Every day he should buff himself with the following spells with the Bead of Karma active for a caster level of 17: DMM: Persistent Divine Power, DMM: Persistent Mass Lesser Vigor (SC, whole party), DMM: Persistent Elation (BoED, whole party), DMM: Persistent Righteous Wrath of the Faithful (SC, whole party), DMM: Persistent Shield (via Anyspell), DMM: Persistent Wraithstrike (via Anyspell, recovered with the 3rd level Pearl of Power), DMM: Persistent Draconic Polymorph (Draconomicon) into himself (specifically allowed by Alter Self) (via Greater Anyspell), Greater Resistance or Superior Resistance (SC), Rod of Extended Greater Luminous Armor (BoED), Rod of Extended Greater Magic Weapon +4 on his lance, Lesser Rod of Extended Magic Vestment +4 on his shield and greater luminous armor spell effects, Rod of Extended Heroes' Feast (whole party), and anything else you can find. With Cha 10 he'll need eleven Night Sticks, with Cha 18 he'll need ten.

When he charges he gets to make a full attack, which is four hits with the lance (Full, Full, -5, -10), two claws (-2, -2), and two rakes (Full, Full). Spirited Charge doubles his damage with every attack, or triples his damage with the lance. The Valorous lance deals double damage on a charge, which makes it x4. Rhino's Rush doubles the damage of his first attack, which would be with the lance for x5. He'll be Power Attacking for his full +13 BAB, which is +13 damage on his claws and rakes or +26 damage on the lance, or it's +26 and +52 with Leap Attack and none of that counts as being multiplied for stacking multipliers (Complete Adventurer errata). Wraithstrike allows all of his melee attacks to be resolved as melee touch attacks. He can use Smite Evil plus Charging Smite on that first hit to add an extra +9 damage (Smite Evil adds +1 damage per Paladin level, Charging Smite adds an additional +2 per Paladin level).

That means one lance hit at (2d6+68 + 1.5 Str) x5, three lance hits at (2d6+59 + 1.5 Str) x4, two claws at (1d6+30 + 1/2 Str) x2, and two rakes at (1d6+30 + 1/2 Str) x2.
Let's say he starts with Str 14, +12 race, +6 Divine Power, +8 Draconic Polymorph, +2 Elation = 42 for a +16 bonus. That would put his lance attacks at +24/+24/+19/+14 (+Cha bonus on the first one), his claw attacks at +19/+19, and his rake attacks at +21/+21. If he hits their touch ac with each of those attacks, he'll deal 10d6+460, 6d6+249, 6d6+249, 6d6+249, 2d6+76, 2d6+76, 2d6+76, 2d6+76. Replace that 10d6+460 with 6d6+249, and he uses no spells or limited-use abilities (Smite Evil) and can do that every round, all day long. If he's flying he can instead make a dive attack, dealing double damage with every attack (first lance x6, other lance attacks x4, claws and rakes x3), but can't use Leap Attack so the total damage will be slightly lower (but still absurd).

On top of that he'll probably have the highest AC in the party at ~45 (-1 size, +X Dex, +10 natural, +8 shield, +12 armor, +Wis+1 monk), amazing saving throws (Fort +14+Con+Cha, Reflex +10+Dex+Cha, Will +10+Wis+Cha, all +3 if using Superior Resistance instead of Greater Resistance), and he'll be buffing the whole party with Fast Healing 1, Elation, Righteous Wrath of the Faithful, and Heroes' Feast all day, every day.

[Telonius]

Other things that would meet the criteria:

- Warforged Warlock with Fell Flight
- A character that willingly fails the save on a Binding (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/binding.htm) spell (Minimus Containment version); receptacle is an object that can be made to fly by the character.
- Elf with Vow of Poverty and a means of flight

[Xeno426]

flying could be acquired by half-celestial\dragon\fiend template.
Half-dragons only get flying if the base creature was large to begin with. I don't have the book on hand, but I'm pretty sure the half-celestial and half-fiend were the same.

[Troacctid]

Half-dragons only get flying if the base creature was large to begin with. I don't have the book on hand, but I'm pretty sure the half-celestial and half-fiend were the same.

Half-celestial and half-field get wings no matter what, but the +4 LA makes them basically unplayable.

I would just go with a Dragonborn Warforged and enjoy the full 16 class levels.

[Cirrylius]

Thank you everyone for your responses, you have NO IDEA how much time you've saved me hearing more impossible ideas to bounce off.


By 'change the subject' do you mean he became distracted while talking, or just doesn't want to play an undead character?

The latter, or... something. Same with Warforged- sorry, forgot to include that:smallannoyed:

Mephit might be appropriate- the very first concept he started with was a piece of statuary or armor or something in a deific realm that was animated by an adversarial trickster god to cause some damage and be a nuisance before being destroyed... that didn't get destroyed, and is continuing to live and troll the cosmos out of spite.

2nd Ed. had "mephit messages" in Planescape; basically a living glitterbomb that powerful creatures would send to each other to deliver a particular message related to its element type. He might just bite :smallsmile:

Edit: Before I forget, is there some kind of clockwork template? Am I thinking of Effigy Creature? His second concept was basically a mindless mechanical butler that went crazy and started killing people... then never stopped.

[Know(Nothing)]

Point him to the Necropolitan. It's an undead that is pretty much deliberately for PCs. Then consider the Feathered Wings graft. Between the two, I think you're looking at around 13,000gp, and being a level behind, but you might be able to work that part out with your DM.

[Telonius]

You'd have a few options for Constructs. Awaken Construct is a thing, and as long as you can find one that flies, that would work. The only weirdness would be advancement. Is the game going to take place over more than one level? I believe Consruct size (and hit dice) are usually set at creation, and they typically don't advance. If the DM rules otherwise (either allowing them class progression or additional monster HD) then that's fine.

One type of Construct that flies: the Zelekhut Inevitable (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/inevitable.htm#zelekhut). 8 RHD and LA of +7, so that puts you at 15th level even if you just take the Monster Manual one with no adjustments.

Check out the Astral Construct (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/monsters/astralConstruct.htm) monster. "Fly" is one of the options from Menu A. Usually they're only temporary (called into being from the Astral Construct (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/astralConstruct.htm) psionic power), but there are ways of getting around that (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?147559-Making-a-permanent-astral-construct). If you can get a permanent one, it's an eligible target for Awaken Construct, from Spell Compendium.

[Curmudgeon]

A winged(+2(?) LA) warforged would work
Actually, no, it wouldn't.
“Winged” is an inherited template that can be added to any animal, giant, humanoid, monstrous humanoid, or vermin (hereafter referred to as the base creature) that does not already have a fly speed. Construct creatures aren't eligible for the Winged template.

[Flickerdart]

You'd have a few options for Constructs. Awaken Construct is a thing, and as long as you can find one that flies, that would work. The only weirdness would be advancement. Is the game going to take place over more than one level? I believe Consruct size (and hit dice) are usually set at creation, and they typically don't advance. If the DM rules otherwise (either allowing them class progression or additional monster HD) then that's fine.
Awaken Construct doesn't give an LA, so it doesn't work with the "playable" requirement.

[Ezekiul]

If you're fine with some homebrew stuff, I occassionally play (and often let my players play) monster classes from this homebrew (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?142724-3-5-Improved-monster-classes-adapting-creatures-for-player-use-taking-requests). Its been fairly reasonable so far and players are usually happy with the ones they've played.

It was an attempt by some players to trade LA for RHD and giving the abilities at mostly reasonable levels. Its formatting has messed up a little due to its age, but still worthwhile to look at.

[ExLibrisMortis]

A useful list. (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=dn84s875ppp2vglug7vhefkvb4&topic=12219.0)

You could be an air elemental creature, which turns you into an elemental with a 100' fly speed (perfect). Manual of the Planes.

[Necroticplague]

Actually, no, it wouldn't. Construct creatures aren't eligible for the Winged template.

That's why I mentioned Human Heritage, to turn it into a Humanoid.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

That's why I mentioned Human Heritage, to turn it into a Humanoid.

Prerequisite: Half-human race or human-descended race.

I doubt you could convince anyone that a Warforged has a human parent or ancestor.

[Fouredged Sword]

Warforged is a good base. Solid no eating and sleeping with an LA of 0.

Now we just have to add some method of all day flight for free.

Well, lets go down the list.

At level 16, you can get
A - overland flight (wizard 5) available from 9th level wizard
B - Fell flight warlock invocation (BE IRON MAN! FIST LASERS PEWPEWPEW!)
C - Druid. Wildshape into something with wings 24/7. You maintain your type (living construct) so you keep all the nice perks.

And many more!

[Necroticplague]

Prerequisite: Half-human race or human-descended race.

I doubt you could convince anyone that a Warforged has a human parent or ancestor.

Warforged were made by House Cannith, a human dragonmarked house. That arguably makes them descendents of humans. Weak argument, though, I'll admit.

[Curmudgeon]

Warforged were made by House Cannith, a human dragonmarked house. That arguably makes them descendents of humans. Weak argument, though, I'll admit.
Only if you confuse "constructor" and "progenitor". Very weak argument indeed.

[Fouredged Sword]

Technically they ARE the progenitors of the warforged, if you use a secondary definition

"a person who originates an artistic, political, or intellectual movement."

Someone in that house started the warforged as a political concept. He is their progenitor.

[Telonius]

Oddly enough, Warforged (a corporeal, living creature) is a valid target for Half-Dragon. Its type then changes to Dragon; would that mean it has to eat, breathe, and sleep, then?

[Xeno426]

Technically they ARE the progenitors of the warforged, if you use a secondary definition

"a person who originates an artistic, political, or intellectual movement."

Someone in that house started the warforged as a political concept. He is their progenitor.

But not "descendant".

[torrasque666]

But not "descendant".

Especially given that there's evidence that the giants of Xendrik were the original creators.

[Rater202]

There's a list of high quality homebrewed monster classes here. (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=270.0)

If the DM can be talked into allowing homebrew, well, there's probably something that can be done with some combination of those classes.

[mabriss lethe]

Here's an oddball choice: Ghostwalk's +0 La ghost template. It's actually an Outsider, not an undead. You could be a real terror if you get yourself a shellcraft manikin to puppet, maybe in a lovely shade of riverine?

[Inevitability]

Oddly enough, Warforged (a corporeal, living creature) is a valid target for Half-Dragon. Its type then changes to Dragon; would that mean it has to eat, breathe, and sleep, then?

Yes. A templated monster has the traits of its new type but the features of its original type. Being a dragon now means it has to eat, breathe, and sleep.

That is, unless you interpret it as gaining the traits of both types, which makes more sense in some ways (such as monsters not losing racial weapon proficiencies and vermin remaining mindless). In such a case, the rules would still conflict, though.

[ShurikVch]

Homunculus (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/homunculus.htm) before 3.5 was LA: +3

How about the Incorporeal Subtype (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#incorporealSubtype)?
The Basics of Incorporeality (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040928a):
Because it lacks a physical body, it has no Strength score. Theoretically, an incorporeal creature may have a Constitution score, but such a creature would be strange indeed. In any case, incorporeal creatures don't need to eat, drink, or breathe. In fact, they cannot do these things because they have no Strength scores and they can't affect physical objects (or even air).Disembodied Spirit (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/pg/20030924a) template is LA: +0

[Segev]

Any Outsider with the [evil] subtype can get into Fiend of Posession (Fiend Folio, back of the book). It comes with Etherealness as a supernatural ability and the ability to merge with inanimate objects.

Also from the Fiend Folio (I think; might be the MMII) is the Maug, a kind of sapient construct designed as a mass-produced soldier with a listed ECL. Can't fly, though; he'd need class levels for that.

As has been mentioned, simply playing Elemental Savant (take "Air" for flight) all the way up to its 10th level would make you a near-full caster who is an elemental (again, air elemental is your best bet for these requirements).