Spellcasting and Losing Sight

[Aetis]

I have a quick question.

Say a group of Human PCs are exploring in a cave with a lit torch as their only source of light.

Combat happens, and PC wizard casts summon monster. (casting time of 1 round), and while he's casting, the torch goes out, plunging everyone into total darkness.

Now, PC wizard has no light source and no sight whatsoever. What happens on his turn when he completes summon monster? Does the spell fizzle?

What if the PC wizard was casting a magic missile instead, and gets hit by a readied blindness while spellcasting? Does the spell fizzle?

[Sagetim]

The summoned creatures are still summoned. Targeting is determined when he starts casting (possibly before as he determines what spell he's going to use and how). I don't know if it says this anywhere in the rules, but it makes sense to me.

That said, the summoned creature would show up where it was targeted and if someone is already there, it might fail if that's what happens when you try to summon into an occupied space. Otherwise I would have the summon show up and fall onto whatever is there, hopefully with hilarious results.

Getting darknessed while casting magic missile would fall into the category of 'it doesn't matter, he targeted you when he started casting and it's an auto hit', at least in my book. Now if they had damaged him while casting, that's where concentration would come into play.

[Ashtagon]

From the Magic chapter:


You make all pertinent decisions about a spell (range, target, area, effect, version, and so forth) when the spell comes into effect. For example, when casting a summon monster spell, you need not decide where you want the monster to appear (or indeed, what monster you are summoning) until the spell comes into effect in the round after you begin casting.

What matters isn't whether you could see when you began casting, but whether you could see when the spell comes into effect. (ie when you have finish casting it and it potentially begins to interact with the wider world).

The end result depends on what is a valid target for the spell.

If the only valid target is a creature, I'd say the spell fails unless you can physically touch a target (or otherwise pinpoint the target's location, perhaps with the Scent ability), because you can't cast a magic missile at the darkness.

In the case of summon monster, the monster is summoned into a space. And while you might not be able to see a space, "twenty feet ahead and five feet to my left" is a valid way to designate where the monster arrives. A fireball spell can't be targeted at a creature while blind, but could be targeted at a given five-foot by five-foot square.

I might be tempted to houserule some kind of random variance to where the monster arrives (or the precise square in which the spell "lands"). This would probably require an Intelligence check and use rules similar to the Thrown Splash Weapons from the combat chapter. If this results in trying to cast the spell at an invalid space (e.g., summon monster inside a wall or on an existing creature's space), RAW says the spell should fizzle. A fireball spell creates a pea-sized object that flies out to teh target space; if your "missed aiming" made it go for a solid wall, it would detonate when it was stopped by the solid wall.

Note also that while blind, it is a lot harder to direct a summoned monster to attack a particular foe, as you can't point at then, and have to rely on their physical appearance as you remembered it from when you could see (if you ever had seen that opponent).

[Sagetim]

From the Magic chapter:



What matters isn't whether you could see when you began casting, but whether you could see when the spell comes into effect. (ie when you have finish casting it and it potentially begins to interact with the wider world).

The end result depends on what is a valid target for the spell.

If the only valid target is a creature, I'd say the spell fails unless you can physically touch a target (or otherwise pinpoint the target's location, perhaps with the Scent ability), because you can't cast a magic missile at the darkness.

In the case of summon monster, the monster is summoned into a space. And while you might not be able to see a space, "twenty feet ahead and five feet to my left" is a valid way to designate where the monster arrives. A fireball spell can't be targeted at a creature while blind, but could be targeted at a given five-foot by five-foot square.

I might be tempted to houserule some kind of random variance to where the monster arrives (or the precise square in which the spell "lands"). This would probably require an Intelligence check and use rules similar to the Thrown Splash Weapons from the combat chapter. If this results in trying to cast the spell at an invalid space (e.g., summon monster inside a wall or on an existing creature's space), RAW says the spell should fizzle. A fireball spell creates a pea-sized object that flies out to teh target space; if your "missed aiming" made it go for a solid wall, it would detonate when it was stopped by the solid wall.

Note also that while blind, it is a lot harder to direct a summoned monster to attack a particular foe, as you can't point at then, and have to rely on their physical appearance as you remembered it from when you could see (if you ever had seen that opponent).

This is where having trudged through the sewer will come in handy, "Attack the guy who doesn't smell like ****." And Magic Missile can totally attack the darkness, haven't you see? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_aJgcVv62Y

[Sliver]

And Magic Missile can totally attack the darkness, haven't you see? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_aJgcVv62Y

http://img.pandawhale.com/46534-Simpsons-McBain-THATS-THE-JOKE-ykEL.jpeg

Also, this is better. (https://youtu.be/8Jqrfh51uKE?t=2m18s)

Seriously though, it depends on the spell. Spells that require a specific target, such as Dominate Person or Magic Missile, can't be cast without seeing it. Weapon-like spells, like the Orbs or Acid Arrow, can be targeted at a square, but suffer 50% miss chance for shooting at a target you can't see. Spells that target areas, such as Summon Monster and Fireball, work normally.

[Ashtagon]

Seriously though, it depends on the spell. Spells that require a specific target, such as Dominate Person or Magic Missile, can't be cast without seeing it. Weapon-like spells, like the Orbs or Acid Arrow, can be targeted at a square, but suffer 50% miss chance for shooting at a target you can't see. Spells that target areas, such as Summon Monster and Fireball, work normally.

That's a good catch. Weapon-like spells, normally worse at hitting their target due to the attack roll, become (comparatively speaking) better at hitting your target when you're blind.

I am NOT suggesting that poking your eyes out is a valid char-op technique.

[Sliver]

I'm not sure if you are serious or not, but the 50% miss chance is on top of the required attack roll. You need to pass both in order to hit your target.

Also, it's rarely true that your ranged touch attack spells will have a worse than 50% chance to hit... Most opposition doesn't have a buffed up touch AC.

[Ashtagon]

I'm not sure if you are serious or not, but the 50% miss chance is on top of the required attack roll. You need to pass both in order to hit your target.

Also, it's rarely true that your ranged touch attack spells will have a worse than 50% chance to hit... Most opposition doesn't have a buffed up touch AC.

Compare magic missile to the orb spells...

When you can see, magic missile is a 100% hit chance. Orb spells require an attack roll. Magic missile is more reliable.

When you can't, magic missile is a 0% hit chance. Orb spells require an attack roll and have a 50% miss chance on top of that. Orb spells are now more reliable than magic missile. Note that you still need to have pinpointed your enemy when blinded to even attempt this, which is non-trivial.

Yes, my tongue was quite firmly embedded in my cheek when I posted that one.

[Sliver]

Ah, I didn't get that you were comparing it to the awesome power of Magic Missile.