How Much Longer?

[basilisk 89]

How many more strips do you thing we have until O-chul dies? I mean, Xykon is heading to the throne room. I think when het gets there O-chul and like ten of the best soldiers of all Azure City will be guarding it. Then there will be a two-strip fight scene between O-chul and Xykon (of course the soldiers will die immediately) and Xykon will kill him. But right after that, Haley and elan will run into the room and scream something about avenging Roy. And they will fight, and win/tie, but not before Xykon gets what he wants.

[Twilight Jack]

I am unclear. Is this a prediction/spoiler, or did you telekinetically saw open the skull of Isaac Mendez and reconfigure your brain for the ability to see the future?

Which ever it is, this prolly needs some spoiler tags.

Also, there are no soldiers in the throne room, only full bore Paladins of the Sapphire Guard. They very likely have at least a few in the level 6-9 range. Even at medium-low level, Paladins en masse are rather well suited for dealing with a lich who has already cast a number of his spells for the day. I don't think it'll work out for them in the end, but neither would I assume that O-Chul is the only one worthy of hanging out for a panel or two. I think eight simultaneous Power Attacked Smite Evil strikes might make a dent that our resident REALLY badass lich was not expecting.

He'll still kill all of them, of course, unless a couple members of the OotS, Hinjo, or perhaps even Miko (should a stray spell knock out the wall of the prison) intervene.

[the_tick_rules]

i dunno. The elite paladin guard won't be so easy. Plus xykon is burning a lot of spells.

[jindra34]

i dunno. The elite paladin guard won't be so easy. Plus xykon is burning a lot of spells.

he's only gone through 5 today...

[Legendary]

I think it's more than that, but no more than ten. However, he is burning through upper level stuff quickly, it seems.

[Tredrick]

Xykon has cast Finger of Death at least 4 times so far. That is 4 of 6 of his level 7 spells.

One meteor swarm leaves him with two more (assuming he is level 18). He cannot know any other 9th level spells.

2 Greater Invisibilities take up two fourth level slots. Possibly more as the spell would only last 18 rounds and we do not know for how long he was invisible. Might also be a fifth level slot with metamagic to extend the duration.

Overland Flight is a fifth level slot.

[Rakeesh]

Are we sure he's burning spells? Judging from his taunting of Roy, we're looking at like a level 16-20 BBEG here. I imagine Xykon is the sort who would be fond of a whole bunch of magical items.

[Tredrick]

Are we sure he's burning spells? Judging from his taunting of Roy, we're looking at like a level 16-20 BBEG here. I imagine Xykon is the sort who would be fond of a whole bunch of magical items.

Xykon would have lost most, if not all, of his magic items from his defeat in the throne room.

[Klev]

Xykon has cast Finger of Death at least 4 times so far. That is 4 of 6 of his level 7 spells..

I am curious on how you reached that number...

I only counted once against Roy, after that he casted two other spells (against Haley and one guard) but you can't say that they are finger of death...

[Tredrick]

I am curious on how you reached that number...

I only counted once against Roy, after that he casted two other spells (against Haley and one guard) but you can't say that they are finger of death...

446 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0446.html#)

434 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0434.html)

430 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0430.html)

429 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0429.html)

While not labeled as Finger of Death, the effect is identical. Until we get another spell with an identical visual effect, we will use an operational definition that all of them are FoD.

Also, it is possible he is casting them as Silent Spell 8th level versions of them. This would explain the lack of naming the spell.

[bluish_wolf]

Xykon is a sorc though, and they get a good number of spells per day.

[Flubadubdub]

Thats also assuming he has absolutely no magical items left. Sure, the throne room is a loss, but you can't tell me a level 18~ lich would not have extra goodies lying around. I'm sure his tower alone had something of use.

Lets say he doesn't though, which would be odd, but I could see it knowing Xykon. Also, I doubt he would store up on thaaat many finger of deaths. Using up all your level 7 and 8 slots on one spell seems a bit silly to me. Also, 2 more meteor swarms. I'm guessing Roy is considerably higher level than anyone else in the throne room. A meteor swarm would take out any single guy there one hit except possible O-chul. You can't expect them to beat someone that outlevels them by that much

[Imperator]

I would like the paladins to stand up to Xykon for a while and think that they could. However, I expect that for narrative convenience ('clearing the field') they will be killed of fairly quickly.
Then the oots/Hinjo will rush in just as O'chul dies.

[CardinalFang]

Thats also assuming he has absolutely no magical items left. Sure, the throne room is a loss, but you can't tell me a level 18~ lich would not have extra goodies lying around. I'm sure his tower alone had something of use.

Lets say he doesn't though, which would be odd, but I could see it knowing Xykon. Also, I doubt he would store up on thaaat many finger of deaths. Using up all your level 7 and 8 slots on one spell seems a bit silly to me. Also, 2 more meteor swarms. I'm guessing Roy is considerably higher level than anyone else in the throne room. A meteor swarm would take out any single guy there one hit except possible O-chul. You can't expect them to beat someone that outlevels them by that much
Correct me if I'm wrong, but as a sorcerer, he doesn't really have to "store up" his spell slots, no? He can just cast whatever from his more limited list, right?

[Jawajoey]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but as a sorcerer, he doesn't really have to "store up" his spell slots, no? He can just cast whatever from his more limited list, right?

Sorcerers can cast more spells per day than wizards, but they're still limited to a finite number. The tradeoff is that they can't "know" as many spells as wizards. Is that what you're asking about?


Redcloak said that the plan was for Xykon to "kill everyone [in the castle], and animate them as zombies. Summon a few monsters..." I would imagine that if Xykon wasn't already planning on summoning some monsters to help him wipe out the castle, that he would decide to do so once he found out that it was filled with paladins.

Basically, it's not just Lich vs Paladin Horde, it's Lich + whatever monsters he summons vs Paladin Horde. He probably wouldn't bother making zombies until the fight is over. However, if all the paladins are in the throne room, and there are some rooms of just regular guys before then, then Xykon could easily be marching in their with a sizable attack force of his own right off the bat, after having expended 1 AoE and some Animate Deads.

[Moik]

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0431.html

Third row, first panel. What's he gonna summon?

[Alfryd]

Xykon has an Overland Flight spell cast and access to Ghostform, remember? Even in close confines, he doesn't have to afford the paladins any chance to engage in melee, so Smite Evil is useless to them.
Also, if we take it that Roy is level 14ish, and Xykon's level estimate isn't wildly off the mark, that makes the Lich about level 22. If he nipped back to Redcloak for healing now and then, he could probably solo the entire army.

[RMS Oceanic]

My guess on O-Chul's life expectancy:

Two more strips that center around Xykon. Three at best. :( Ignore all other strips that go off to other parts of the battle.

[One Skunk Todd]

When Durkon cast Greater Dispell Magic against Xykon does that mean that a roll was made against every spell Xykon had prepared today? If so could it be that he's lost some other spells due to that, in addition to what he's already cast?

[jindra34]

When Durkon cast Greater Dispell Magic against Xykon does that mean that a roll was made against every spell Xykon had prepared today? If so could it be that he's lost some other spells due to that, in addition to what he's already cast?

1. it was area only dispelling one spell per entity
2. Sorcerers do not prepare spells
3. Dispell never affects non-active spells
4. The only thing that usually causes you to lose spells is revival
So in a nutshell no...

[Rad]

1. it was area only dispelling one spell per entity
2. Sorcerers do not prepare spells
3. Dispell never affects non-active spells
4. The only thing that usually causes you to lose spells is revival
So in a nutshell no...

I guess he meant "prepared" as in "used to buff himself". Like see invisible, flight etc. that would be active spells.

[jindra34]

I guess he meant "prepared" as in "used to buff himself". Like see invisible, flight etc. that would be active spells.

Thats an active spell; prepared spells are ones a wizard is ready to cast on a particular day...

[Closet_Skeleton]

No! O-chul will live on forever in my heart...

[Twilight Jack]

446 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0446.html#)

434 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0434.html)

430 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0430.html)

429 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0429.html)

While not labeled as Finger of Death, the effect is identical. Until we get another spell with an identical visual effect, we will use an operational definition that all of them are FoD.

Also, it is possible he is casting them as Silent Spell 8th level versions of them. This would explain the lack of naming the spell.

It is equally likely that one or more of those castings is Enervation, and the one in 446 specifically looks as if it could be the standard lich negative energy touch attack, or Vampiric Touch. I agree that it seems odd that Xykon isn't naming his spells, but considering that it requires a full round action for a Sorcerer to get metamagic-y, I don't think that's what's going on. Most likely, Rich just realized that we psychopaths of the board would be counting spells, so it's best if some remain unidentified, so we don't extrapolate mechanics from the speed of plot.

But as long as we're going to extrapolate, at level 18+, what do you want to bet that Xykon's Charisma is >22? At 24+, he gets an extra 7th lvl spell slot. He's got a cloak, could it be a Cloak of Charisma?

Most folks assume that Vaarsuvius' little circlet is a Headband of Intellect. I don't see why we can't safely assume the same for Xykon's cloak. Ultimately, I think trying to count Xykon's spells with any degree of real accuracy is going to be difficult at best. Especially if he doesn't take the trouble to unambiguously identify them for us.

[Finwe]

Xykon has an Overland Flight spell cast and access to Ghostform, remember? Even in close confines, he doesn't have to afford the paladins any chance to engage in melee, so Smite Evil is useless to them.
Also, if we take it that Roy is level 14ish, and Xykon's level estimate isn't wildly off the mark, that makes the Lich about level 22. If he nipped back to Redcloak for healing now and then, he could probably solo the entire army.


Lay on hands can do a pretty decent amount of damage to undead if you've got a good cha. I'm guessing that most of the paladins are around level 5-6 and have around 14 cha. If all the paladins were somehow able to lay hands on Xykon for their full amount, they'd have done some serious damage to him. Depending on their number, they might even destroy him from positive energy overload. This is assuming, of course, that they don't simply try to melee him, which they probably will...

[Grasilich]

A bunch of nameless Paladins and O-Chul are not going to do anything to Xykon. They're going to be pounded into post-Paladin paste.

[Arkzein]

But as long as we're going to extrapolate, at level 18+, what do you want to bet that Xykon's Charisma is >22?

He's a level 18 sorcerer with the lich template. You'd be crazy to assume his Charisma isn't in the low thirties.

[jindra34]

He's a level 18 sorcerer with the lich template. You'd be crazy to assume his Charisma isn't in the low thirties.

Any one up for Kentucky Fried Paladin and Mashed Paladins? (besides belkar)

[Kilbia]

Oooh, will there be giblet gravy?

And I'm going to go out on a limb and predict that O-Chul is the *only* one who dies. Why? 'Cause he's the only one we care about.

[Finwe]

He's a level 18 sorcerer with the lich template. You'd be crazy to assume his Charisma isn't in the low thirties.



Yes, he's probably got 30 cha (18 base, +2 lich +4 levels +6 enhancement), plus any inherent bonuses he might have accrued.

[SPoD]

If Xykon is a 20th level sorcerer who started with an 18 Charisma and put every stat boost into it, he would have a 23 Cha, +2 for being a Lich, and probably a Cloak of Charisma +6, for a total of 31. This would give him SEVEN 9th-level spells per day, not to mention seven each of 7th- and 8th-level spells, eight each of 3rd-, 4th-, 5th-, and 6th-level spells.

He's used just one 9th-level spell, and no 8th-level spells.

I think those paladins are toast.

[Twilight Jack]

If Xykon is a 20th level sorcerer who started with an 18 Charisma and put every stat boost into it, he would have a 23 Cha, +2 for being a Lich, and probably a Cloak of Charisma +6, for a total of 31. This would give him SEVEN 9th-level spells per day, not to mention seven each of 7th- and 8th-level spells, eight each of 3rd-, 4th-, 5th-, and 6th-level spells.

He's used just one 9th-level spell, and no 8th-level spells.

I think those paladins are toast.

Exactly my point. I low-balled his Charisma at 22+ to make a point, since that's the absolute minimum that he's working with at this point, even without any enhancements. I too think it's likely much higher, and 28-32 is a good estimate.

[Alfryd]

Lay on hands can do a pretty decent amount of damage to undead if you've got a good cha.
Using lay on hands in this way requires a successful melee touch attack...
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/paladin.htm#layonHands
I'm not certain if touch attacks suffer a miss chance vs. incorporeal targets, but regardless, it's useless against anything airborne.

...and probably a Cloak of Charisma +6...
Do items that boost stats count toward spell-per-day allotments? I'm fairly sure they don't increase your maximum permitted spell level.

Listen, Miko was the best the Sapphire Guard had, and Xykon neutralised her more or less effortlessly. Miko, sans powers and significantly injured, whupped Hinjo's ass, and he's the second best they've got. Xykon is going to wipe the floor with O-chul and company, then proceed to piss on their charred remains from a great height.
(At least in spirit.)

[Rad]

Do items that boost stats count toward spell-per-day allotments? I'm fairly sure they don't increase your maximum permitted spell level.
They do give you bonus slots (not for spell levels you have not reached yet, but Xykon has 9th level spells already). If you lose the item somehow you lose the bonus spells from your unused slots/uncast prepared spells.

[skywalker]

A meteor swarm would take out any single guy there one hit except possible O-chul.


What if all the members of the sapphire guard go through the same training as Miko did? Who's to say some of them haven't trained their monk levels higher than their paladin levels? The point I'm getting to is... *improved evasion*(*s of majesty) On top of that, monks have really nice touch AC's. Meteor swarm has to hit with a ranged touch, and then there's a reflex save involved. Monks have both nice touch ACs and nice reflex saves. Further, as for fingers of death and disintegrates, Monks have nice saves to go with those, too. Add in a little divine grace from being a second level paladin and it starts to get a little more interesting. Xykon has to hit them first. Then he has to beat their saves. I'm not saying that would be hard, but out of 15(low estimate) paladins, quite a few *could* save, assuming he beats the touch AC of every one of them, which I think is unlikely. However, if he were to stop and animate some corpses first, then they would be screwed. But he's Xykon, so he won't. He has "A schedule to keep."

I'm not saying he wouldn't beat them, but they have a fighting chance.

[jindra34]

What if all the members of the sapphire guard go through the same training as Miko did? Who's to say some of them haven't trained their monk levels higher than their paladin levels? The point I'm getting to is... *improved evasion*(*s of majesty) On top of that, monks have really nice touch AC's. Meteor swarm has to hit with a ranged touch, and then there's a reflex save involved. Monks have both nice touch ACs and nice reflex saves. Further, as for fingers of death and disintegrates, Monks have nice saves to go with those, too. Add in a little divine grace from being a second level paladin and it starts to get a little more interesting. Xykon has to hit them first. Then he has to beat their saves. I'm not saying that would be hard, but out of 15(low estimate) paladins, quite a few *could* save, assuming he beats the touch AC of every one of them, which I think is unlikely. However, if he were to stop and animate some corpses first, then they would be screwed. But he's Xykon, so he won't. He has "A schedule to keep."

I'm not saying he wouldn't beat them, but they have a fighting chance.

Miko was a monk prior to becoming a paladin most AC's are paladins from the start...

[Talya]

If Xykon is a 20th level sorcerer who started with an 18 Charisma and put every stat boost into it, he would have a 23 Cha, +2 for being a Lich, and probably a Cloak of Charisma +6, for a total of 31. This would give him SEVEN 9th-level spells per day, not to mention seven each of 7th- and 8th-level spells, eight each of 3rd-, 4th-, 5th-, and 6th-level spells.

He's used just one 9th-level spell, and no 8th-level spells.

I think those paladins are toast.

with a 5 point inherent bonus to charisma, (Wish or Tomes) that goes up to 8 level 6, 7, 8 and 9 spells, 9 level 2,3,4,5 spells, and 10 level 1 spells.

[Elphir]

I have the idea that Xykon will enter the throne room, suddenly notices he is surrounded by paladins, and then he'll have one line:

"Oh...crap"

[jindra34]

I have the idea that Xykon will enter the throne room, suddenly notices he is surrounded by paladins, and then he'll have one line:

"Oh...crap"
Especially if goes up through the floor... Eugene will get to watch. Hmm... will he possibly save the day?

[moleytov]

can I just draw attention to the last panel of the left hand page:
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0422.html
O'chul may well not be at the throne room!!!

[Norenche]

just in that strip he says he goes to Soon's Gate, wich is in the throne, that obviously is on the Throne Room.

[Alfryd]

I'm not saying he wouldn't beat them, but they have a fighting chance.
Xykon isn't going to waste meteor swarm on these mooks, though at level 22 he probably has high enough BAB to ovecome their touch AC.
EDIT: Ah, crap. The save DC versus Horrid Wilting would be 10 + 8 + 10 = 28. So, a few of them might luck out for a round or two.

Of course, Xykon might like to draw things out a little longer for entertainments' sake, but this is hardly comforting.

[moleytov]

Oops, wrong gate. I was thinking of girands or what-dya-ma-call-its gate. *rolls eyes* i'll go and sit in the corner quietly now.

sorry.