Goblin Center of Trade about to be invaded

[SangoProduction]

I saw a thread "City Protection," and it reminded me of the situation we are in in my campaign.

So, here's the thing. In a week's time, we expect about 4,000 to 40,000 [I think 4,000 but I can't be sure] orcs to be hitting a Center of Trade owned by the goblins. We need ideas for how best to set up a defense against them. just running out there to fight means certain death. I was thinking of using traps, but we don't know if we'll have time. If we are lucky, the hunter's lodge will have some spare bear traps we can just throw out there.

What we know about the enemy:

They are at least indirectly led by an evil (or at least CN) Elf God.
The majority of the army is orc, but may have human conspirators [the messenger we intercepted was human]
They are going to be hungry. We burned down their food supplies.
Their head commander is likely human, though we can't be sure.
They will be coming from the South West (at least that's where they will start coming from)
MIGHT have a level 4-5 wizard. Might have starved, might have given into cannibalism. We don't know. We got out with our tails between our legs after a relatively major victory.
In all likelihood was not planning on a siege when they started their march.


What we know about this town

Has a river running through the center of the town, half of it on the north, half on the south.
The river runs from North West to South East
Has a city guard of indeterminate size.
Has immense wealth, and multiple, specialized magic craftsmen.
(out of character) We know one of these specialized craftsmen is doing something shady, and refused to help recently - happened to be the most inventive of the bunch [he crafted the wondrous items]
None of the other adventurers accepted our offer to pay them to defend the city / harass the orcs / set traps
Several magical priesthoods, but there was at least 1 which was orcish. Showed to not be traitorous so far, but I don't trust them.
Has farmlands to the North, and plains to the South. About 100 miles out is a forest in all directions except North.
I think it has 2 entrances, by land east and west roads, and 2 by river, though the river flows quickly, so practically only 1 by river.
EDIT: The town has been evacuated.


Our Party (levels are guessed at)

A pyromaniac dwarf sorcerer(2)/rogue(5).
A human Shadow Disciple: Rogue (4), Fighter (2), Shadowdancer (1), Sorcerer(1)
-Specifically spec'ed into providing support for the other rogues
A kill-billy dog person: full rogue (7)
A human cleric of Thor: full cleric (7)


Resources:
About 3000 in gold not already wrapped up in magic items (each)
Potential intervention from at least 1 Elf God
Potential scouting information via Shadow Disciple and kill billy, once we get back to town
A giant wasp, once per day. Might be able to harass them before they get there, but we might only get there within a day or 2 of the attack.
The friendship of the head priest of Palor, who's father founded the town.
The friendship of a large family of goblin farmers. (Likely no class levels aside from one, who's acting as the cleric's student.)
2 level 1 bards, and 1 level 4 bard (all goblin), who was hired to help us gain the favor of an elf god.
-was not hired to fight, or do anything dangerous though.
Friendship of at least 1 guard.

[Sian]

... looking at that party even 400 might be a tall order. You'd need some massive (as in hitting a lot, not that high damage) AoE to even consider defending against that as a small'ish party.

[Keltest]

So off the top of my head, it looks like you have a party moderately well equipped for infiltration and assassination. if you could find a way to kill the commanders of the army, it would seriously hamper the orcs. I would say they might even start infighting without them, but since your goblins have a friendly trade center I don't want to pass judgment.

[SangoProduction]

So off the top of my head, it looks like you have a party moderately well equipped for infiltration and assassination. if you could find a way to kill the commanders of the army, it would seriously hamper the orcs. I would say they might even start infighting without them, but since your goblins have a friendly trade center I don't want to pass judgment.

I was thinking of the same thing, as that would be our best hope, it would seem. I just wanted some contingencies in case they are still like "OK, you didn't kill the elf god thing, we still attack."

[Scheming Wizard]

You need mercenaries. Some creatures in the monster manuals like the Maug and the War troll have prices that will let you hire them. The Sea Serpent is also an option depending on how deep the river is. See if your DM will allow this. They are all pretty reasonable especially if you only need them for a few days. That way you can garrison the goblin town with some kind of protection in case your party dies during the commando raid on the Orc commanders. If worse comes to worse and you all die maybe your DM will let you play the mercenaries and defend the town. I hope your DM meant 400 orcs. Playing out a battle with 4,000 orcs seems impossible in miniatures and in time.

[SangoProduction]

You need mercenaries. Some creatures in the monster manuals like the Maug and the War troll have prices that will let you hire them. The Sea Serpent is also an option depending on how deep the river is. See if your DM will allow this. They are all pretty reasonable especially if you only need them for a few days. That way you can garrison the goblin town with some kind of protection in case your party dies during the commando raid on the Orc commanders. If worse comes to worse and you all die maybe your DM will let you play the mercenaries and defend the town. I hope your DM meant 400 orcs. Playing out a battle with 4,000 orcs seems impossible in miniatures and in time.

Indeed, it seems likely that we won't have to personally defend against 4,000 orcs, instead cutting their numbers down with favors, and having parts of the town take care of those that get through everything we set up. (The elf god is also likely going to be a factor. If my negotiations go well, I could well have the entire elvish god council on our side here...but we aren't even sure one of those exists, the primary god we talked to just mentioned others, though not by name. It was an extrapolation I made.)

The mercenary idea is great. Indeed, we've been trying to find some, but there aren't any truly combat-useful mercs, and the adventurers who came to this town fled rather than joined us (or at the very least, aren't taking offensive, proactive action).

I've got to look into the sea monster possibility though. That completely slipped my mind, as this was a trading route. There could be a sleeping sea monster. We'll solve the problem of having a sea monster in the trade route...as soon as the threat to the center of trade is dealt with.

[Keltest]

Indeed, it seems likely that we won't have to personally defend against 4,000 orcs, instead cutting their numbers down with favors, and having parts of the town take care of those that get through everything we set up. (The elf god is also likely going to be a factor. If my negotiations go well, I could well have the entire elvish god council on our side here...but we aren't even sure one of those exists, the primary god we talked to just mentioned others, though not by name. It was an extrapolation I made.)

The mercenary idea is great. Indeed, we've been trying to find some, but there aren't any truly combat-useful mercs, and the adventurers who came to this town fled rather than joined us (or at the very least, aren't taking offensive, proactive action).

I've got to look into the sea monster possibility though. That completely slipped my mind, as this was a trading route. There could be a sleeping sea monster. We'll solve the problem of having a sea monster in the trade route...as soon as the threat to the center of trade is dealt with.

If youre going to garrison the town, you should also evacuate the non-combatants to somewhere where they wont be caught in the crossfire. They don't necessarily need to reach their shelter before the army hits, they just need to be not in the town.

[SangoProduction]

If youre going to garrison the town, you should also evacuate the non-combatants to somewhere where they wont be caught in the crossfire. They don't necessarily need to reach their shelter before the army hits, they just need to be not in the town.

Already done. Thanks though. As an evil(-ish) character in a good party, I already knew my party would be dissatisfied if non combatants got injured because of this, so I got them out before we left for help. They would likely be of more help by not being in the way, anyway. And if we are lucky, that mass exodus (however temporary they wish it to be) would bring defenders of light and goodness to our rescue.

[Bad Wolf]

What level is the Cleric?

[Extra Anchovies]

Temporarily reroute the river to flow around the city, blocking access from the south-east? At the very least it'll buy you some time. At the very best they'll try to cross in boats with siege towers on them, which should be an easy victory for you.

[SangoProduction]

Temporarily reroute the river to flow around the city, blocking access from the south-east? At the very least it'll buy you some time. At the very best they'll try to cross in boats with siege towers on them, which should be an easy victory for you.

lol. That's actually brilliant. I really wish I took the dig spell now, lol. Well! Onwards my ...gosh darn it! We sent the peasant workers out for their safety...are we really going to have to do this ourselves? (On a more serious note, how would we actually "temporarily" reroute a river?...and I wasn't making fun of your comment, it was truly brilliant.)

[Extra Anchovies]

lol. That's actually brilliant. I really wish I took the dig spell now, lol. Well! Onwards my ...gosh darn it! We sent the peasant workers out for their safety...are we really going to have to do this ourselves? (On a more serious note, how would we actually "temporarily" reroute a river?...and I wasn't making fun of your comment, it was truly brilliant.)

Block the river's path through the city. If it doesn't naturally flow around the city to block access from the southeast (there's a chance it might; ask your DM if it does, he may make it flow that way as a reward for the audacity of the idea), dig a trench to make it do so. Make sure it reconnects with the river's normal route after it passes the city. After the army has been dissuaded/crushed, unblock the normal route and block the trench.

[SangoProduction]

Block the river's path through the city. If it doesn't naturally flow around the city to block access from the southeast (there's a chance it might; ask your DM if it does, he may make it flow that way as a reward for the audacity of the idea), dig a trench to make it do so. Make sure it reconnects with the river's normal route after it passes the city. After the army has been dissuaded/crushed, unblock the normal route and block the trench.

Nice nice. I'll try that out.

[Eno Remnant]

One must wonder why orcs would ever accept human leadership, or follow the whims of an elf god (elves/dwarves and orcs are some of the most bitter enemies in D&D history). Of course, speculation isn't really helping in this situation.

The most practical solution I can think of on the spot, is what is commonly known in Australia as the Brisbane Line. I recommend abandoning the half of the city south of the river, and destroying the bridges that cross it for a few miles in either direction. Slowed down by supply caravans, the orcs would take much longer to get to you if they tried to find a bridge. Even if they didn't, building boats would take a few more days.

This, of course, depends on the depth, speed and width of the river itself. Between the party, you have enough coin to purchase a Decanter of Endless Water (the goblins might even be willing to lend you one, since you're trying to save their hides and all). If you set up a rig to hold it and set it to "geyser", it'll add 30 gallons of water to the river every six seconds. That's not to be sneezed at. Especially not when it would strengthen the current and make crossing even more difficult.

Orcs have light sensitivity in their special qualities, so judicious use of spells like Daylight by your Cleric would leave them all dazzled. It's only a -1 to attack, but they don't get a save against it, and Daylight's radius is 60 feet. Could also be good for sneaking into their camp at night, as they also take a small penalty to Spot and Search checks.

Back to my speculations on elf gods and orc armies, you may want to see if you can kidnap one of the orcs and have your Cleric try Break Enchantment. Like I said, the two races don't get along, and this may be a case of mass-brainwashed army.

That's all I've got to offer, off the top of my head. Hope it helps.

[SangoProduction]

One must wonder why orcs would ever accept human leadership, or follow the whims of an elf god (elves/dwarves and orcs are some of the most bitter enemies in D&D history). Of course, speculation isn't really helping in this situation.

The most practical solution I can think of on the spot, is what is commonly known in Australia as the Brisbane Line. I recommend abandoning the half of the city south of the river, and destroying the bridges that cross it for a few miles in either direction. Slowed down by supply caravans, the orcs would take much longer to get to you if they tried to find a bridge. Even if they didn't, building boats would take a few more days.

This, of course, depends on the depth, speed and width of the river itself. Between the party, you have enough coin to purchase a Decanter of Endless Water (the goblins might even be willing to lend you one, since you're trying to save their hides and all). If you set up a rig to hold it and set it to "geyser", it'll add 30 gallons of water to the river every six seconds. That's not to be sneezed at. Especially not when it would strengthen the current and make crossing even more difficult.

Orcs have light sensitivity in their special qualities, so judicious use of spells like Daylight by your Cleric would leave them all dazzled. It's only a -1 to attack, but they don't get a save against it, and Daylight's radius is 60 feet. Could also be good for sneaking into their camp at night, as they also take a small penalty to Spot and Search checks.

Back to my speculations on elf gods and orc armies, you may want to see if you can kidnap one of the orcs and have your Cleric try Break Enchantment. Like I said, the two races don't get along, and this may be a case of mass-brainwashed army.

That's all I've got to offer, off the top of my head. Hope it helps.

The orcs (and likely even the commander) in all likelihood knows nothing about what their patron is. They call themselves elves, but Normal D&D elves don't exist. There would never have been a rivalry there.

The commander was just a guess at it being a human, but we were definitely tossing around the idea of sneaking in and "suggesting" to the orcs with whispered voices from the shadows, that their commander hides and is weak.
But, human or not, they wouldn't follow him if he wasn't stronger than them.

Again, I like the use of the river. And I think we could well abandon half of the city, evacuating the valuables to the northern side just fine. This is a quick and easy idea that should work well, and we can just destroy the bridges we don't intend to fight in, as this river is deep enough for trade vessels, and passenger ships of at least 300 people comfortably. It'd be difficult to cross, and those that do could get shot by archers (small archers, but archers none the less...wait...I think at least a few of the guards are human).

Our characters don't know about what orcs are, so wouldn't really have that knowledge of the orcs' weaknesses. I think my character would ask his elf god on their next meeting, as soon as he gets back to the town...and you might have actually added 2 or 3 days to our available set up time by mentioning that they wouldn't like to travel in sun light.

And good point on the mind control. We already theorized this quite a while ago...after a couple humans working for someone directly under the evil elf's influence kept going, relentlessly after having broken bones and shattered shields (the DM directly mentioned that the guy's arm was broken, and what not, I think it was a clue. We've seen no further evidence, rather than the typical D&D tropes of "fight till they die" characters, but I still choose to believe this is the case).

My character wouldn't know of the existence of the break enchantment spell, as he neither has it, nor has seen it used, but I guess I could ask the Cleric to inform me of everything he can do, as my character is currently in the mindset of "I MUST LEARN EVERYTHING!!!!!!"

[Eno Remnant]

After further consideration of your assets, I noted the abilities a Shadowdancer can offer. The most notable being Hide in Plain Sight.

If you sent the Shadowdancer out to hide in the plains as the enemy approached, off to the side, and then swing in and attack their supply train. The enemy would be diverted by the attack--or if not, you can obliterate the train and start hitting their rear ranks.

What's important is that he doesn't become engaged on extended combat. It's purely a hit-and-run, and then fade into the shadows. You can only move at half speed if you want to slip away, but searching for him will be slower. That and their light sensitivity will make it harder for the orcs to spot him.

It won't have a large, immediate effect, but it will a) provide a diversion, which I'm sure you can find plenty of uses for; and b) damage their supply train, which will effectively leave them stranded without the resources needed to sustain their campaign if you can repel them.

It's also important to remember that, if you can't win the battle, you need to drag it out as far as you can. You've trashed their food, and you have an efficient way to strike at them further without retaliation (if they try to defend the supply train, it takes troops from the front line, which works to your advantage). Unless they all have ranks in Survival, a lot are going to go hungry.

[SangoProduction]

After further consideration of your assets, I noted the abilities a Shadowdancer can offer. The most notable being Hide in Plain Sight.

If you sent the Shadowdancer out to hide in the plains as the enemy approached, off to the side, and then swing in and attack their supply train. The enemy would be diverted by the attack--or if not, you can obliterate the train and start hitting their rear ranks.

What's important is that he doesn't become engaged on extended combat. It's purely a hit-and-run, and then fade into the shadows. You can only move at half speed if you want to slip away, but searching for him will be slower. That and their light sensitivity will make it harder for the orcs to spot him.

It won't have a large, immediate effect, but it will a) provide a diversion, which I'm sure you can find plenty of uses for; and b) damage their supply train, which will effectively leave them stranded without the resources needed to sustain their campaign if you can repel them.

It's also important to remember that, if you can't win the battle, you need to drag it out as far as you can. You've trashed their food, and you have an efficient way to strike at them further without retaliation (if they try to defend the supply train, it takes troops from the front line, which works to your advantage). Unless they all have ranks in Survival, a lot are going to go hungry.

Yeah, we've pretty much been doing this :) that's why their food supplies have been burned down. Still, a very solid and usable idea. They were then betting on getting resupplied at a fort, which we burned...There may be a 4-5 level wizard we left there...oh boy, this suddenly got a lot harder lol. Here's hoping she starved.

[Bad Wolf]

Have the Cleric cast as many Lesser Planar Ally spells he can. Maybe Hound Archons or something?

[SangoProduction]

Have the Cleric cast as many Lesser Planar Ally spells he can. Maybe Hound Archons or something?

Yeah, planning on it.

[Extra Anchovies]

Have the Cleric cast as many Lesser Planar Ally spells he can. Maybe Hound Archons or something?

Lantern archons.

Yes, lantern archons. Make sure they have Flyby Attack. Ask your DM if you can summon multiple per Lesser Planar Ally because they're so small.

Their 60-foot fly speed makes them immune to ground troops (and lets them outrun horses), while their DR 10/evil and magic makes them virtually immune to archers. If the only enemy caster is a level 4 or 5 wizard, they won't be able to do much either, especially if the archons stay spaced out. Even if the orcs do have some means of reliably hitting back, the archons can cast aid on each other everyone once in a while for the temporary HP. Oh, and that aura of menace means that most of the orcs are going to be more than a little unnerved by the archons' presence.

Command them to fly above the army, focusing down orcs one at a time with the light rays. Sure, 1d6 damage isn't much, but 1d6 damage every round for an entire week will really add up. That's 100,800 rays per archon.

Assuming two lesser planar ally spells per day, that's a total of 14 archons summoned (times however many archons you can summon per LPA). They won't all be showing up on day 1, but you still get a grand total of 806,400 light rays. Assuming 50% accuracy (which is likely since they're only at +2 to hit but are ranged touch attacks), that's a minimum of 67,200 damage, which is enough to kill 13,440 of the 1st-level orc warriors presented in the Monster Manual. On average, though? You'll be killing 47,040 orcs in the course of a week. I'm pretty sure that's efficient enough to be a war crime.

Sure, the orcs can hide behind cover, but at that point you've managed to take an army of orcs and instilled in them a mortal fear of fourteen little floating balls of light. That's enough of a blow to morale that you've basically won already.

Let's see 14 hound archons do that.

[SangoProduction]

Lantern archons.

Yes, lantern archons. Make sure they have Flyby Attack. Ask your DM if you can summon multiple per Lesser Planar Ally because they're so small.

Their 60-foot fly speed makes them immune to ground troops (and lets them outrun horses), while their DR 10/evil and magic makes them virtually immune to archers. If the only enemy caster is a level 4 or 5 wizard, they won't be able to do much either, especially if the archons stay spaced out. Even if the orcs do have some means of reliably hitting back, the archons can cast aid on each other

Command them to fly above the army, focusing down orcs one at a time with the light rays. Sure, 1d6 damage isn't much, but 1d6 damage every round for an entire week will really add up. That's 100,800 rays per archon.

Assuming two lesser planar ally spells per day, that's a total of 14 archons summoned (times however many archons you can summon per LPA). They won't all be showing up on day 1, but you still get a grand total of 806,400 light rays. Assuming 50% accuracy (which is likely since they're only at +2 to hit but are ranged touch attacks), that's a minimum of 67200 damage, which is enough to kill 13,440 of the 1st-level orc warriors presented in the Monster Manual.

Sure, the orcs can hide behind cover, but at that point you've managed to take an army of orcs and instilled in them a mortal fear of fourteen little floating balls of light. That's enough of a blow to morale that you've basically won already.

Let's see 14 hound archons do that.

I like that.
Then the sorcerers cast dancing lights at the gate, and even if they somehow manage to get through, they'd be plenty scared of attacking :)

[Extra Anchovies]

I like that.
Then the sorcerers cast dancing lights at the gate, and even if they somehow manage to get through, they'd be plenty scared of attacking :)

I was actually in the middle of doing some edits when you quoted. I've since finished up the sentence about aid, remembered about the Aura of Menace, and put in the predicted average orcs-killed number. I'm pretty impressed by this myself; I'll need to remember lantern archon spam as a tactic against low-level armies.

Also, Dancing Lights. Yes. Good idea. The orcs won't know which spheres are lantern archons and which are decoys. Excellent.

[Yahzi]

it'll add 30 gallons of water to the river every six seconds. That's not to be sneezed at.
It's not even worthy of a blink, let alone a sneeze.

5 gallons a second is not actually even noticeable to a river. It's a good fire hose. It will knock a person down if you aim at them. But it is wholly outclassed by a river. The Mississippi (admittedly one of the largest rivers in the world) moves 1.6 million gallons per second. So even a small river, that is a thousand times smaller than the Mississippi , moves 1,600 gallons a second. The Mississippi is a mile wide and 200 ft deep; our small river would be 50 ft wide and 20 ft deep. Even 25 ft wide and 10 ft deep would move 400 gallons a second, which means a Decanter adds about 1% total flow.

People routinely over-estimate the value of a Decanter (or more accurately, under-estimate the volume of water used by industrial/agricultural/natural processes).

[SangoProduction]

It's not even worthy of a blink, let alone a sneeze.

5 gallons a second is not actually even noticeable to a river. It's a good fire hose. It will knock a person down if you aim at them. But it is wholly outclassed by a river. The Mississippi (admittedly one of the largest rivers in the world) moves 1.6 million gallons per second. So even a small river, that is a thousand times smaller than the Mississippi , moves 1,600 gallons a second. The Mississippi is a mile wide and 200 ft deep; our small river would be 50 ft wide and 20 ft deep. Even 25 ft wide and 10 ft deep would move 400 gallons a second, which means a Decanter adds about 1% total flow.

People routinely over-estimate the value of a Decanter (or more accurately, under-estimate the volume of water used by industrial/agricultural/natural processes).

"moves 1.6 million gallons per second" how far, across how much distance is that "1.6 million gallons"? Is that the entire river, or a foot, or what? I was trying to do calculations, because I know that for a rectangular prism scales in that way, but a river is a bit closer to half a cylinder. So...tried to...we don't know the actual length of the cylinder.

I still agree that 5 g/s isn't that much, compared to a river, but I like to fill my idle curiosities. (looking at a gallon of milk, and comparing it to the river in my town, it doesn't look too incredible...but given enough time, it might conceivably increase the level/flow rate a noticeable amount.)

[Keltest]

"moves 1.6 million gallons per second" how far, across how much distance is that "1.6 million gallons"? Is that the entire river, or a foot, or what? I was trying to do calculations, because I know that for a rectangular prism scales in that way, but a river is a bit closer to half a cylinder. So...tried to...we don't know the actual length of the cylinder.

I still agree that 5 g/s isn't that much, compared to a river, but I like to fill my idle curiosities. (looking at a gallon of milk, and comparing it to the river in my town, it doesn't look too incredible...but given enough time, it might conceivably increase the level/flow rate a noticeable amount.)

Unlikely. While there are a good number of variables affecting that, an extra 5 gallons of water a second is not going to accumulate quickly enough to affect the river to any significant degree. Unlike , say, a lake, a river has water exiting the system as well, and that is going to cause significant problems for any attempts to drastically alter the flow or water level by adding more water.

I much easier way to increase the level is to dam the river. If the water being added is greater than the water can exit, it will continually rise. If youre just adding in more water without restricting the rate it can exit the river, you probably aren't going to alter the level of the water much, and it certainly wont continually increase.

[Coidzor]

"moves 1.6 million gallons per second" how far, across how much distance is that "1.6 million gallons"? Is that the entire river, or a foot, or what? I was trying to do calculations, because I know that for a rectangular prism scales in that way, but a river is a bit closer to half a cylinder. So...tried to...we don't know the actual length of the cylinder.

I still agree that 5 g/s isn't that much, compared to a river, but I like to fill my idle curiosities. (looking at a gallon of milk, and comparing it to the river in my town, it doesn't look too incredible...but given enough time, it might conceivably increase the level/flow rate a noticeable amount.)

It goes past a given point, IIRC (http://water.usgs.gov/edu/measureflow.html), so 1.6 million gallons of water would start on one side of that point and then by the end of the second that much water would be past that specific point. How much distance that is in terms of the river's length is determined by the width and depth of the channel, which I don't know the exact math for offhand.

[Bad Wolf]

Isn't there such thing as storm elementals or something? A Cleric of Thor should be able to get them as a Planar Ally.

[noob]

The great problem of orc armies is if they all have crossbows and shoot a lot they have a good chance of doing some critical strikes(you are hit one time every 20 orcs who shoot at you if you are crazily armored so 800 orcs kills you in one turn if they spot you) so most of the things they can see will not last long also maybe those orcs carries entire carts full of arrows and will start building some siege weapons breaking your walls and breaking more and shooting at everything(except themselves).

[SangoProduction]

The great problem of orc armies is if they all have crossbows and shoot a lot they have a good chance of doing some critical strikes(you are hit one time every 20 orcs who shoot at you if you are crazily armored so 800 orcs kills you in one turn if they spot you) so most of the things they can see will not last long also maybe those orcs carries entire carts full of arrows and will start building some siege weapons breaking your walls and breaking more and shooting at everything(except themselves).

Well, ...We may have ****ed up, (maybe not, depending on your perspective) but they were planning on instead invading a nearly dead-magic world with virtually no defenses, and 1 last city. We...made it so they couldn't, and they'd go hungry. We predict that they'd attack this town (if only for food). I doubt they really "planned" to siege anything. But you do have a point on those cross bows. It's something we've got to be careful of. We'll make a point of scouting that in particular.

I didn't mention that, didn't come to mind, sorry.