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DracoKnight
2015-07-15, 09:51 PM
Out of curiosity, what CR would this (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B66RprYE6_HHQ3dsekRzSjN5UGc/view?usp=sharing) be?

JNAProductions
2015-07-15, 09:53 PM
Why does it have 2 HP?

No, really-why does it have 2 HP? This thing can and will die to a level 1 anything that wins initiative.

That being said, let's see:

HP: CR 2 (Due to Legendary Resistance)
AC: CR 30+ (Due to AC 19 and Magic Resistance)
Atk: CR 13
DPR: CR 4

So it's CR (4+13+30+2)/4
CR 49/4
CR 12

CR 12 with TWO HP. DracoKnight, I think you done goofed.

DracoKnight
2015-07-15, 11:13 PM
Why does it have 2 HP?

No, really-why does it have 2 HP? This thing can and will die to a level 1 anything that wins initiative.

That being said, let's see:

HP: CR 2 (Due to Legendary Resistance)
AC: CR 30+ (Due to AC 19 and Magic Resistance)
Atk: CR 13
DPR: CR 4

So it's CR (4+13+30+2)/4
CR 49/4
CR 12

CR 12 with TWO HP. DracoKnight, I think you done goofed.

It's supposed to be easy to kill, because I've built it to be a hoard encounter. If my players are smart and roll well, they'll kill these things quickly. If they don't they're gonna get captured and dragged to a hellish gladiator pit.

Ralanr
2015-07-16, 07:37 AM
It's supposed to be easy to kill, because I've built it to be a hoard encounter. If my players are smart and roll well, they'll kill these things quickly. If they don't they're gonna get captured and dragged to a hellish gladiator pit.

What level is the encounter, cause at some point people drop orcs in one hit.

Startouched
2015-07-16, 10:42 AM
JNAproductions is mistaken in the formula he's using to calculate CR.

The Defensive CR is calculated as the CR bracket in which your monster's hp fits + (deviation from expected AC of a monster of the same CR)/2.

The HP is low enough to qualify you as a CR 0, but we treat it as though it has 12 hp to account for legendary resistance as the DMG tells us to. (RAW CR 0 monsters don't have anything added to them to account for legendary resistance, but that seems to be an oversight. That means that it's HP bracket is that of a cr 1/8. It's effective AC is 23 (+2 from magic resistance, +2 from flight with effective ranged options), so we bring it up five stages, concluding that it has a defensive CR of 3.

The Offensive CR is calculated as the CR bracket in which your damage per round fits + (deviation from expected to hit bonus/DC of a monster of the same CR)/2

The damage per round is probably 60 (AoE's assume two people are hit by the spell, so the aura adds 32 whilst the conventional attacks deal 28). Since the 32 damage is unresistable, I'm going to say that your effective to hit bonus is +8 rather than +5 or +6. Overall that gives you an offensive CR of 9.

Average of offensive and defensive CR is 6, so the monster is a CR 6 ignoring the Consume Life feature. If you factor in consume life, it probably is a CR 8 or 9.

However I have to say that I really wouldn't recommend using these things, they just seem bizarrely balanced. There really shouldn't be such a colossal discrepancy between offensive and defensive CR, especially with these things having such great Dexterity. Altogether though it is of course your call.

PoeticDwarf
2015-07-17, 06:07 AM
Out of curiosity, what CR would this (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B66RprYE6_HHQ3dsekRzSjN5UGc/view?usp=sharing) be?

This can't be real, he just kills his slave (kobold), he uses comsume life and he is OP.

Or he can't use it, and he's killed in one round.

Ninja_Prawn
2015-07-17, 06:29 AM
...concluding that it has a defensive CR of 3.

...Overall that gives you an offensive CR of 9.

There really shouldn't be such a colossal discrepancy between offensive and defensive CR

On imbalance between offense & defense: most villains built as NPCs with spellcasting classes have high offensive CR and low defensive CR. As a specific example, the main villain (a wild mage) for Act 1 of the campaign I'm currently working on has Offensive 9 & Defensive 1 for an average of 5 (though the 'intended adventure path' doesn't involve fighting her in direct combat). I don't necessarily see this as a problem.

A friendly NPC druid that I planned as a pure healer (with like 6 CON) ended up at CR 2 purely because she has Call Lightning as a domain spell. The Offense/Defense discrepancy is just unavoidable in some cases.

Startouched
2015-07-17, 06:36 AM
Entities with PC classes (primarily full casters) are a bit of an exception, since they tend to have a wide array of abilities that indirectly bolster their defensive potential that the DMG can't really account for. The CR system isn't quite functional when applied to them, I find. (An example of this is the CR 9 Archmage, with ninth level spells. In my experience the Archmage is an immensely swingy fight with the potential to go down trivially easily or cause a TPK depending on your initiative rolls)

This exception is totally irrelevant to the subject at hand though, since it's a generic stat sheet rather than a full caster.