Working with templates

[firruna]

Hello playgrounders,

So my group is starting to experiment with adding templates to our characters. Our game is at level 9 right now, and as I almost died the last two sessions, I figure it's a good idea to have a back-up in case I die soon, and it's never a bad thing to have extras around.

I'm going to do a Dwarf with the Half-Celestial (+4 LA), and Natural were-boar (+3 LA) templates, as my 'back-up' By my math that comes out to starting level of 7 without class levels.

Now, I don't have much experience with templates, so I'm not really sure how to go about writing up the base creature, before class levels.
I rolled up starting stats, and then got stuck. Do I:

Chose a template, say Wereboar, account for stat adjustments, do skills, and Animal Hit Die. Then do the same for the Half-Celestial?
OR
Take both templates, add the stat adjustments, extra Hit Die, and then do skills for both?
OR
Am I just wrong?


Then, do I count as level 0, or 7 for feats, stat adjustments, etc.?

For anyone wondering, I rolled up 17, 17, 16, 13, 12, 14 for starting stats, and am debating between Ranger, and barbarian for class. I can use any official source book, Dragon Magazines and Quintessential anything. Any other 3rd party source books I have to run past the DM.

Any help on any of these questions is greatly appreciated.

Thanks
-Firruna

[Kesnit]

Chose a template, say Wereboar, account for stat adjustments, do skills, and Animal Hit Die. Then do the same for the Half-Celestial?

This.


Then, do I count as level 0, or 7 for feats, stat adjustments, etc.?

Level 0.

[firruna]

Thank you.

[firruna]

Should anyone else look at this, what about for languages? Do I do them before or after the Int bonuses from wereboar/Half-Celestial?

[Glimbur]

Languages should happen after templates; if nothing else because those are both inherited templates so you were born with them*.

*unless serious magic because magic is like cheating.

It's also worth noting that being a were-boar gets you 3 animal hit dice, which are not very good because they count towards your effective character level but they don't come with class features. It also makes you ECL 10, which won't fit in with a level 9 party. But you will only have 3 hit dice, which makes you very fragile. Level Adjustment is very painful. You might get some use out of Ur Priest's guide to playing a monster (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?207928-Urpriest-s-Monstrous-Monster-Handbook).

[firruna]

Languages should happen after templates; if nothing else because those are both inherited templates so you were born with them*.

*unless serious magic because magic is like cheating.

Good point, thank you.


It's also worth noting that being a were-boar gets you 3 animal hit dice, which are not very good because they count towards your effective character level but they don't come with class features. It also makes you ECL 10, which won't fit in with a level 9 party. But you will only have 3 hit dice, which makes you very fragile. Level Adjustment is very painful.

Crap, you're right. I read the thing that said 'Level Adjustment' on the wereboar table, and assumed it had taken that into account. Looks like I've got to find something else to mix then. Thanks for pointing this out.


You might get some use out of Ur Priest's guide to playing a monster (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?207928-Urpriest-s-Monstrous-Monster-Handbook).

Thanks, just glanced at it, and will definitely be reading the whole thing later.

[MesiDoomstalker]

If your interested in playing a certain character concept, it be a good idea to explain your concept and the good people here can give you the best way to work the concept mechanically. As a general rule, Level Adjustment (LA) is not very good idea. Ideally, if you have Level Adjustment or Racial Hitdie, the combined total of the 2 should be no more than 3, preferably lower.

[firruna]

If your interested in playing a certain character concept, it be a good idea to explain your concept and the good people here can give you the best way to work the concept mechanically.

Normally I would, by I don't have any real concept in mind. I've just thought for a while now, that it could be fun to run one or the other, and now that the DM said 'Go crazy' I thought I'd do both, at once. Now that I see this isn't going to work, I'm going back to the drawing boards to come up with a concept to build the character around, and will likely come back for some help when I have one.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

I'm going to do a Dwarf with the Half-Celestial (+4 LA), and Natural were-boar (+3 LA) templates, as my 'back-up' By my math that comes out to starting level of 7 without class levels.

Incorrect. A were-boar has three animal hit dice which are not optional, and they count toward your ECL. Without class levels this would be a level 10 character, and you must have at least one class level, so the earliest this would be playable is 11th level. That would be an 11th level character with only four hit dice, only one of which gives any class features.

Let me introduce you to the Tier System For Templates (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=7044), it will give you a pretty good indication of which templates are worth using, and which are only going to make your character weaker overall.

The only version of Half-Fiend or Half-Celestial that would be worth playing IMO is the Half-Goristro (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060630a) for a Strength-based melee character.

The only version of Lycanthrope that would be worth playing IMO would be a custom Were-Serval (Sandstorm) for a sneaky character, using something like a Whisper Gnome (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20040807a&page=3) for the base humanoid. Even then, the character would need to begin play at a high enough level to have bought off some or all of the level adjustment (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/reducingLevelAdjustments.htm).

[firruna]

Incorrect. A were-boar has three animal hit dice which are not optional, and they count toward your ECL. Without class levels this would be a level 10 character, and you must have at least one class level, so the earliest this would be playable is 11th level. That would be an 11th level character with only four hit dice, only one of which gives any class features.

Yes, thank you, that was pointed out above.


Let me introduce you to the Tier System For Templates (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=7044), it will give you a pretty good indication of which templates are worth using, and which are only going to make your character weaker overall.

Cool, I'll take a look.


The only version of Half-Fiend or Half-Celestial that would be worth playing IMO is the Half-Goristro (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060630a) for a Strength-based melee character.

The only version of Lycanthrope that would be worth playing IMO would be a custom Were-Serval (Sandstorm) for a sneaky character, using something like a Whisper Gnome (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20040807a&page=3) for the base humanoid. Even then, the character would need to begin play at a high enough level to have bought off some or all of the level adjustment (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/reducingLevelAdjustments.htm).

Thanks, I'll take this under consideration.

[Demidos]

In lieu of Half Celestial, the Saint template is pretty good (the heavenly concept), as is the half fey (the half-monster concept). As a barbarian or ranger, the feral (generally considered OP), half giant, goliath (not technically a template, but has LA and can be refluffed), half minotaur (generally considered OP), and mineral warrior templates are all generally good choices.

In general terms, anything past LA 3 isnt worth playing because you wont be able to buy it off by level 20, and it also lowers your HD too substantially.

Consider Savage Species progressions to actually take ''levels'' in those classes, but be forewarned that Savage Species is often terribly balanced.

[firruna]

Ok, so I've looked into it, and I think I'm going to go with a Minotaur Barbarian, and then add the Monster Of Legend template to it as I like what that gives.