How would you guys do to successfully manifest Fusion on a Prismatic Great Wyrm?

[Pippin]

Don't look at me like that, they have the best INT score in the entire game. (See ELH, page 185.)


Fusion
Psychometabolism
Level: Egoist 8
Display: Auditory, material, and visual
Manifesting Time: 1 round
Range: Touch
Target: You and one touched willing creature of your type and your size or smaller
Duration: 1 min./level (D)
Power Points: 15, XP

[Nifft]

Be a Dragonwrought Kobold.

Manifest True Mindswap on one of them.

Fusion with its mind while it's stuck in your previous tiny little Dragon body.

[Brookshw]

Just overcoming the size and type restriction? Given that its willing (and magnitudes more powerful than just about any PC) I'd probably just ask it to come down to my level via shapechange.

Assuming its not willing I'd run.

[Rubik]

Just overcoming the size and type restriction? Given that its willing (and magnitudes more powerful than just about any PC) I'd probably just ask it to come down to my level via shapechange.Scroll of Gate, followed by the above.

[Pippin]

Just overcoming the size and type restriction? Given that its willing (and magnitudes more powerful than just about any PC) I'd probably just ask it to come down to my level via shapechange.

Assuming its not willing I'd run.

Well my first plan was to wait until it falls asleep, so that it's willing. I wouldn't ask it anything, since there's no reason for it to be friendly toward me.

[Brookshw]

Well my first plan was to wait until it falls asleep, so that it's willing. I wouldn't ask it anything, since there's no reason for it to be friendly toward me.

So your plan is to wait for one of the most powerful creatures in existence, with the highest int, and magic power to rival the gods, to fall asleep :smallconfused:

You might want to go with Rubic's gate plan assuming: dragon temporarily is not on its home plane, you're casting at cl 39 (all of which can be done), and that you're not hitting a grey area as to whether the duration of fusion bumps up against the immediate action clause resulting in you having to pay the thing somehow.

[Rubik]

So your plan is to wait for one of the most powerful creatures in existence, with the highest int, and magic power to rival the gods, to fall asleep :smallconfused:

You might want to go with Rubic's gate plan assuming: dragon temporarily is not on its home plane, you're casting at cl 39 (all of which can be done), and that you're not hitting a grey area as to whether the duration of fusion bumps up against the immediate action clause resulting in you having to pay the thing somehow.Add Supernatural Spell, Sanctum Spell, and Words of Creation to reduce the scroll's cost considerably.

[Pippin]

So your plan is to wait for one of the most powerful creatures in existence, with the highest int, and magic power to rival the gods, to fall asleep :smallconfused:
Well I thought Dragons eat, sleep and breathe?

The Shapechange way is smart, it's a pity that I don't get its Con score as well though. Also, I never realized that Gate wasn't capped.

I'm thinking of using Nifft's solution along with Gate, this way I get everything but a decent Dex score.


Add Supernatural Spell, Sanctum Spell, and Words of Creation to reduce the scroll's cost considerably.
Or just find/call a 17th-level Wizard and ask him to cast Gate for you, I suppose.

[Rubik]

Well I thought Dragons eat, sleep and breathe?

The Shapechange way is smart, it's a pity that I don't get its Con score as well though. Also, I never realized that Gate wasn't capped.

I'm thinking of using Nifft's solution along with Gate, this way I get everything but a decent Dex score.Once you're cohabitating with the dragon, use Sapechange to become a hagunemnon, use its abilities to gain the hive mind of a dvati and the split ability of an ooze, cut yourself a few times, and dismiss the Shapechange. Then manifest Astral Seed and off yourself to make it permanent.

[Brookshw]

Well I thought Dragons eat, sleep and breathe? Sure, but with that much magical might behind it, much like a wizard, its really only if it wants to. Plus you need to resolve actually getting to it, which again, massive magical power (one of the reason's gates useful)


The Shapechange way is smart, it's a pity that I don't get its Con score as well though. Also, I never realized that Gate wasn't capped.

I'm thinking of using Nifft's solution along with Gate, this way I get everything but a decent Dex score.


Or just find/call a 17th-level Wizard and ask him to cast Gate for you, I suppose.

The control portion that you want to use is capped at cl x 2 hd, so you're looking at cl 39 if you want gate to have a practical effect. Rubik's suggestions can help with that, a 17 level wizard alone won't quite cut it here.

[Pippin]

Once you're cohabitating with the dragon, use Shapechange to become a hagunemnon, use its abilities to gain the hive mind of a dvati and the split ability of an ooze, cut yourself a few times, and dismiss the Shapechange.
Could you please elaborate where we'd be going with that? I'm not sure I got your point, but that looks complicated enough to be very interesting.

[Rubik]

Could you please elaborate where we'd be going with that? I'm not sure I got your point, but that looks complicated enough to be very interesting.Okay. You Fusion with the Shapechanged dragon, gaining everything you normally would from the joining. Then you use the Shapechange effect that's now on you to become a hagunemnon. Hagunemnons are epic level monsters that have the ability to gain up to four (Ex) abilities from different creatures simultaneously, so use that to take an ooze's split ability and the dvati's twin-ness (basically an alternate hivemind) so you can split yourself into pieces, all of which are you. They share the same soul when created, so even when you cancel the Shapechange effect, they should still share your soul.

Then once you're done making whatever changes you like to yourself, manifest Astral Seed and kill yourself. When you reform, you will be identical to the way you were when you manifested Astral Seed (minus a negative level), including the dragon's HD and all the best ability scores between you and the dragon. You'll also have however many soul-bound bodies you had at that time. Put a few in stasis, just in case something bad happens.

[Pippin]

I just wondered: what would happen to my level adjustment if I die and gain the body of a Great Wyrm? What would happen to my level adjustment if I die and gain the same body, but with 64 Int / 65 Wis / 64 Cha ?

[Nifft]

I just wondered: what would happen to my level adjustment if I die and gain the body of a Great Wyrm? What would happen to my level adjustment if I die and gain the same body, but with 64 Int / 65 Wis / 64 Cha ?

IMHO, your LA would become "--", which means you're either an NPC by the rules, or you have ceased to interact with the rules about levels, and therefore any future class level advancement will be purely on the basis of DM whimsey.

Really, at that point you're outside the rules.

[Pippin]

IMHO, your LA would become "--", which means you're either an NPC by the rules, or you have ceased to interact with the rules about levels, and therefore any future class level advancement will be purely on the basis of DM whimsey.

Really, at that point you're outside the rules.
I see. Well if I choose to shapechange into an average human, I'm fairly sure I'll have 0 level adjustment by RAW.

[Nifft]

I see. Well if I choose to shapechange into an average human, I'm fairly sure I'll have 0 level adjustment by RAW.

Shapechange does not affect your level adjustment -- which is good, because if it did, it would screw up Wizards and Sorcerers everywhere.

Know what does, though?

Reincarnation. It sets your level adjustment based on your new body.

That would be a rules-legal way to get absurd mental ability scores and keep them while being rules-as-written legal.

[ben-zayb]

1. use Scroll of Ice Assassin of Protean, and have the protean change to your size
2. use Scroll of Aberrate on yourself
3. use Power Stones of Fusion (you and Protean) and Astral Seed (fused form)
4. kill yourself, and wait for your fused form to reform via Astral Seed
5. congrats, you can now change to any size, and you can change anyone into any type via Aberrate

EDIT: you also gain ****tons ofTO opening up for you, such as being Pun-Pun w/out even needing Manipulate Form, in case you fancy one