OP time

[True believer]

Hello dear members

I will join a party of level 5 in an OP game. The party was lacking any melee character so i was called to filling that gap. The problem is that i was always a caster type of person so my knowledge in melee builds luck some serious skills.

I decided to go for Human fighter 4/Warrior of darkness 8/Thrall of Orcus 8
I will use the feat magical training for the necromancy spell requirement

But expect that i am lost. Any suggestions ???

[Bad Wolf]

By OP, I'm going to assume overpowered. First, we need to know the power level of the other characters. Because they might choose a moderately powered Cleric with Malconvoker, while you show up with a pixie Hulking Hurler.

[True believer]

By OP, I'm going to assume overpowered. First, we need to know the power level of the other characters. Because they might choose a moderately powered Cleric with Malconvoker, while you show up with a pixie Hulking Hurler.

Our wizard will end up an incantatrix and our druid a planar shepherd. So as a melee character i am afraid that i will not be able to keep up. I dont want to be able to kill gods, i am looking for something to close the gap and to do my part efficient.

[(Un)Inspired]

Sounds like you need a DMM Cleric to keep up with those two.

You'll ruin your enemies and you can still be a full caster.

[Red Fel]

The first question: Why does the party need a melee character? I mean, casters can pretty much cover the spectrum, particularly at OP levels. Why is dedicated melee needed? "Tradition?"

The second: Do you want to play that character? Because if you would rather be playing caster (and your caster-leaning build suggests that you do), all of the optimization advice in the world won't make you enthusiastic about melee.

And the third: What kind of melee character are you going for? The kind that tears off faces in the surprise round? The meat shield? The guy who hurls mountains? That's a very relevant consideration here.

Because otherwise, as has been mentioned, you could easily play a melee-oriented DMM Cleric and be done with it.

[Renen]

Also, why not a single dip into warblade or some such? Thats IF you arent taking the suggestion to become a DMM cleric.

[True believer]

The first question: Why does the party need a melee character? I mean, casters can pretty much cover the spectrum, particularly at OP levels. Why is dedicated melee needed? "Tradition?"

The second: Do you want to play that character? Because if you would rather be playing caster (and your caster-leaning build suggests that you do), all of the optimization advice in the world won't make you enthusiastic about melee.

And the third: What kind of melee character are you going for? The kind that tears off faces in the surprise round? The meat shield? The guy who hurls mountains? That's a very relevant consideration here.

Because otherwise, as has been mentioned, you could easily play a melee-oriented DMM Cleric and be done with it.


1st:
I am replacing a player and the DM said to me that i can choose any built i like as it fits the base purpose of the character gone. The previous character was a melee barbarian.



2nd:
Actually yes !!! The theme around these two prestige classes is interesting and as we have a heavily RP campaign i think i will enjoy them


3rd:
My main purpose will be to keep the enemy away of the casters. I am trying to find a way to "lock-down" enemies fast so i am thinking about tactics like improve trip and such or to go unarmed and deliver stun attacks. But i really want to explore my choices since this particular campaign is scheduled to go up to epic levels and no changes will be allowed as soon as i join the party.



ty for your time :D

[True believer]

Also, why not a single dip into warblade or some such? Thats IF you arent taking the suggestion to become a DMM cleric.


just for curiosity Why not swordsage ? WIS to AC is a nice synergy for any cleric

[Red Fel]

3rd:
My main purpose will be to keep the enemy away of the casters. I am trying to find a way to "lock-down" enemies fast so i am thinking about tactics like improve trip and such or to go unarmed and deliver stun attacks. But i really want to explore my choices since this particular campaign is scheduled to go up to epic levels and no changes will be allowed as soon as i join the party.

I know you like those PrCs, but one of the best ways for a melee character to act as a bulwark between enemies and allies, and to lock down anything that moves, is to play a Crusader (Tome of Battle). Straight Crusader will do you, but you can dip Barbarian (with the Whirling Frenzy and Spirit Lion Totem ACFs) to allow him to more effectively dive into action. Make liberal use of the Thicket of Blades stance, and combine it with feats like Combat Reflexes, Karmic Strike/Robilar's Gambit, Improved Trip/Knock-Down/Stand Still, and you can pretty much lock up all movement within your threatened area. In the first round of combat, you use Pounce and Whirling Frenzy to dive into the thickest group of enemies; you then take AoOs on pretty much any movement within your threatened area thanks to Thicket of Blades; and anytime you hit somebody, you can knock them prone, thanks to Knock-Down, or lock their movement, thanks to Stand Still.

It's clean and easy. It won't make you a powerhouse, but it will keep you functional.

[(Un)Inspired]

I know you like those PrCs, but one of the best ways for a melee character to act as a bulwark between enemies and allies, and to lock down anything that moves, is to play a Crusader (Tome of Battle). Straight Crusader will do you, but you can dip Barbarian (with the Whirling Frenzy and Spirit Lion Totem ACFs) to allow him to more effectively dive into action. Make liberal use of the Thicket of Blades stance, and combine it with feats like Combat Reflexes, Karmic Strike/Robilar's Gambit, Improved Trip/Knock-Down/Stand Still, and you can pretty much lock up all movement within your threatened area. In the first round of combat, you use Pounce and Whirling Frenzy to dive into the thickest group of enemies; you then take AoOs on pretty much any movement within your threatened area thanks to Thicket of Blades; and anytime you hit somebody, you can knock them prone, thanks to Knock-Down, or lock their movement, thanks to Stand Still.

It's clean and easy. It won't make you a powerhouse, but it will keep you functional.

I think on of the best ways for a melee character to lock down anything that moves is to cast wall of stone to create a thunderdome around themselves and there target.

Followed by Dimensional Anchor.

Both of which a cleric can cast...

[Renen]

just for curiosity Why not swordsage ? WIS to AC is a nice synergy for any cleric

Oh I meant IF you arent just gonna go cleric. Though even then it might help abit. I said warblade mostly if you are going melee only and want full BAB

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

A Human lacks the reach and size to reliably control opponents as a tripper. Consider switching that to something like a Water Orc (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/elementalRacialVariants.htm#racesOfWater) Half-Minotaur Mineral Warrior (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20031003e) with the level adjustment bought off (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/reducingLevelAdjustments.htm). Half-Minotaur is a +1 LA inherited template, Mineral Warrior is a +1 LA acquired template, so you could have started as a Half-Minotaur, bought off the +1 LA at your 3rd character level, gained Mineral Warrior, and then bought off that LA at your 6th character level.

That will make you a large size Humanoid (Orc, Earth), you'll have Str +18, Dex -2, Con +12, Int -6, Wis -4, Cha -4, +7 natural armor, 40 ft. land speed, swim 40, burrow 20, darkvision 60 ft., scent, +2 to listen, search, and spot, DR 8/Adamantine, +4 to escape Maze and the ability to always know which direction is north, Track as a bonus feat, and a natural gore attack that deals 1d8 damage.

From there, you go Fighter 6/ War Hulk 10/ Orc Paragon (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/racialParagonClasses.htm#orcParagon) 3/ whatever 1. Get TWF and wear Gloves of the Balanced Hand (MIC), take EWP: Kusari-Gama (DMG p144-145) along with Knock-Down (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineAbilitiesFeats.htm#knockDown) and Knock-Back (RoS), and use the Dungeoncrasher ACF from Fighter in Dungeonscape. Get the Feathered Wings graft in Fiend Folio, fly above opponents and use Knock-Back to bull rush them into the ground. You'll need to Power Attack for -2 to hit all the time to use Knock-Back, even though it won't benefit your damage directly since the Kusari-Gama is a light weapon. However, you'll Dungeoncrash them when you bull rush, dealing an extra 8d6+(3x Str) damage per hit. Make the Kusari-Gamas +1 Wrathful Healing, and get Speed on both once you can afford it.

Your full attack will be six attacks, every hit will strike every opponent in reach, every hit will bull rush each opponent into the ground for Dungeoncrasher damage, every hit will Knock-Down each opponent. You'll get another free attack per opponent knocked down from Improved Trip, each of those attacks will hit every opponent in reach, each of those attacks will bull rush each opponent for Dungeoncrasher damage again and again and again. Every attack will heal you for half the damage it deals thanks to Wrathful Healing. Focus on getting all the necessary items (www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?187851-3-5-Lists-of-Necessary-Magic-Items) besides that, and you'll be an unstoppable juggernaut of destruction.

[OldTrees1]

Your full attack will be six attacks, every hit will strike every opponent in reach, every hit will bull rush each opponent into the ground for Dungeoncrasher damage, every hit will Knock-Down each opponent. You'll get another free attack per opponent knocked down from Improved Trip, each of those attacks will hit every opponent in reach, each of those attacks will bull rush each opponent for Dungeoncrasher damage again and again and again. Every attack will heal you for half the damage it deals thanks to Wrathful Healing. Focus on getting all the necessary items (www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?187851-3-5-Lists-of-Necessary-Magic-Items) besides that, and you'll be an unstoppable juggernaut of destruction.

Add in Combat Reflexes if you want to hit each opponent multiple times outside of your turn as well.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Add in Combat Reflexes if you want to hit each opponent multiple times outside of your turn as well.

I thought that should be a given, but consider this: If just one of those opponents stands up, your AoO will hit every opponent in reach and dungeoncrash them all again. If that opponent then tries to move away, your AoO will hit every opponent in reach again, dungeoncrash them all again, you'll get to knock down that opponent again, get a free attack from improved trip that hits everyone in reach, and dungeoncrashes them all again.

[OldTrees1]

I thought that should be a given, but consider this: If just one of those opponents stands up, your AoO will hit every opponent in reach and dungeoncrash them all again. If that opponent then tries to move away, your AoO will hit every opponent in reach again, dungeoncrash them all again, you'll get to knock down that opponent again, get a free attack from improved trip that hits everyone in reach, and dungeoncrashes them all again.

Mighty Swing working on an AoO is not something people would assume before they read the ability. So I like explicitly stating it rather than assuming it as a given.

But yes, Combat Reflexes is almost but not quite a Feat Tax for Warhulks because it is that good.