First 5e Game, need help chosing class

[ChaosRonin]

Hey all, In the next couple days my DnD group will be having our first 5e game moving from our 4e campaign as it wasn't going anywhere, and I need some assistance choosing my class >.>

So we have a Bard going Valor, Warlock going Tome, Death Cleric and a Archer Fighter or Ranger not sure which his going yet.

Anyways I am thinking of going as the tank or the party and plan on picking up Sentinel at some point so I am kinda stuck between going Paladin or a melee oriented Cleric. Mostly i would just like peoples opinions on what they would go and why, hopefully it will help me finally pick one.

Thanks

[Ninja_Prawn]

Tanky paladin looks like a good choice, considering party composition. Take Sentinel/Shield Master/Protection and you can't go far wrong. Which race were you looking at?

[Kd7sov]

What's your character concept? While it's certainly possible to start with class and build from that, I always find it more satisfying to go the other direction.

So, for instance, you want to tank; if I understand correctly that means your character focuses on guarding the other party members. Why, in-character, is that a priority of theirs? What led them to decide these people were people they should protect?

I notice you specify paladin or cleric; why not, for instance, Battle Master Fighter?

[coredump]

Tanky cleric, Paladin, fighter.... all solid choices. I like Battlemaster fighter, but all three have their benefits.

[The Shadowdove]

There are plenty of options

Versatile tank = oath of ancients paladin (heals and smites/half spell damage aura)

Damage and feat heavy tank = fighter

Pure hp and damage reduce = bear barbarian (d12 hp, con mod to ac, and half damage vs every damage except psychic)



In my opinion, build wise, paladin and barbarian take the cake.

Barbarian is a bit tankier in general. Imagine, every 100 damage = 50 damage. It's a big buffer of health with tons of mitigation. None of which requires you to do anything but "fly into a rage". This can be very fun to role play, and is best played by someone who intends to spice up the rage role playing with vivid imagery.

paladin has slightly less health, but a 10 foot aura that passively grants half damage to spell damage for you and your allies. Also a hefty heal. And potential nova damage with smiting on critical hits and expended spell slots.

Another option is shifter Druid.

Your stats are replaced by the animals, and your health reverts back to whatever it was when you shifted (given you aren't knocked to 0). So you can turn into a bear, gain lots of health, take damage, revert back to a full hp humanoid, shift again.

[1Forge]

thi smight not be a popular choice but i like bard/ paladin, they dont necissarily take tons of damage but i find they are awesome at dishing out damage at alot of targets, then spamming dex saves. I mean it's kinda tanking if you keep the enimys attention (I'm afb but i think theres a feat you could take to allow you to taunt enemys into attacking/allowing you to intercept enemys attacks to allys.)

If you do this only put a max of 3 levels in bard and the rest in paladin, the 3 levels will only slow paladin development slightly, but give you spam spells, skills galore, and extra smiting slots.

If this dosent work go for a fighter, but spice it up many people make fighters 2D and lacking in personality exept smash. To counter this multiclass a level or two or take a feat, that will make you more unique.

[PotatoGolem]

As between the two options you posted, definitely Paladin. Clerics are less of a melee powerhouse than they were (at least in 3.x), and a Paladin is a better frontliner. Ancients is really tanky- between +Cha to saves and half damage from spells, you're hard to take down with spells, and with a shield, plate, and d10 HD you have the AC and health to be a tough fight in melee. Make sure to take shield master- it's an incredible feat.

[JAL_1138]

If not paladin, Battlemaster with Polearm Master + Sentinel. (Which is also a good feat combo on a paladin.)

[Naanomi]

Life Cleric with Heavy Armor Mastery is a pretty strong tank, especially at low levels

[ChaosRonin]

Thanks for all the replies so far, sorry about the late response got distracted with Warframe :P

Anyways here some more info.


Tanky paladin looks like a good choice, considering party composition. Take Sentinel/Shield Master/Protection and you can't go far wrong. Which race were you looking at?

Im thinking of going V.Human or H.Elf for Paladin or V.Human/Dwarf for the Cleric


What's your character concept? While it's certainly possible to start with class and build from that, I always find it more satisfying to go the other direction.

So, for instance, you want to tank; if I understand correctly that means your character focuses on guarding the other party members. Why, in-character, is that a priority of theirs? What led them to decide these people were people they should protect?

I notice you specify paladin or cleric; why not, for instance, Battle Master Fighter?

I haven't gotten all of it tuned out yet but basically, bonds are important to him and will do his best to protect his friends and allies. As for fighter I played a Hybrid Barb|Fighter in 4e and wanted to try something with magic to create are more battle-mage feel whether its with offense spells or defense/support spells basically a front liner with spells to help him out.


There are plenty of options

Versatile tank = oath of ancients paladin (heals and smites/half spell damage aura)

Damage and feat heavy tank = fighter

Pure hp and damage reduce = bear barbarian (d12 hp, con mod to ac, and half damage vs every damage except psychic)



In my opinion, build wise, paladin and barbarian take the cake.

Barbarian is a bit tankier in general. Imagine, every 100 damage = 50 damage. It's a big buffer of health with tons of mitigation. None of which requires you to do anything but "fly into a rage". This can be very fun to role play, and is best played by someone who intends to spice up the rage role playing with vivid imagery.

paladin has slightly less health, but a 10 foot aura that passively grants half damage to spell damage for you and your allies. Also a hefty heal. And potential nova damage with smiting on critical hits and expended spell slots.

Another option is shifter Druid.

Your stats are replaced by the animals, and your health reverts back to whatever it was when you shifted (given you aren't knocked to 0). So you can turn into a bear, gain lots of health, take damage, revert back to a full hp humanoid, shift again.

Dunno the Barb doesn't really appeal to me and didn't fit in with my concept really, as for Druid I had heard that the wild shape forms kinda fall of in usefulness pretty quick.


As between the two options you posted, definitely Paladin. Clerics are less of a melee powerhouse than they were (at least in 3.x), and a Paladin is a better frontliner. Ancients is really tanky- between +Cha to saves and half damage from spells, you're hard to take down with spells, and with a shield, plate, and d10 HD you have the AC and health to be a tough fight in melee. Make sure to take shield master- it's an incredible feat.

Yea I plan to pick up Sentinel and Shield Master and go sword and board with a longsword

[silverkyo]

Dunno the Barb doesn't really appeal to me and didn't fit in with my concept really, as for Druid I had heard that the wild shape forms kinda fall of in usefulness pretty quick.



Wildshape druid starts off a little later but becomes one of the strongest tanks due to the cheese of it. When you wild shape, you gain temp HP of the monster you change to, so every single attack against you is a completely wasted attack, because once the temp HP is gone, you just do it again. And again. And again. Low level you have a tough time spamming it but later on they become the strongest tanks in the game with infinite wild shape, you can never kill them.

[PotatoGolem]

Wildshape druid starts off a little later but becomes one of the strongest tanks due to the cheese of it. When you wild shape, you gain temp HP of the monster you change to, so every single attack against you is a completely wasted attack, because once the temp HP is gone, you just do it again. And again. And again. Low level you have a tough time spamming it but later on they become the strongest tanks in the game with infinite wild shape, you can never kill them.

The problem with this is that you don't get unlimited wild shape until level 20. You're limited to wild shape 2/rest from level 2 to 19, and the beasts' power really drops off past a certain point. CR 12-ish enemies are going to burn through a CR 4 form's HP pretty quick. Yes, moon druid is practically unkillable at level 20, but most campaigns either don't reach 20 or play maybe 1-2 sessions at level 20.

[Citan]

Hi! :)

As others have said before, it probably would be best to choose from fluff if you're hesitant, since many good build exists for tanking.

With that said, a pure Paladin would probably be a no-brainer choice for what information you gave: Auras to protect allies (aligned with your fluff, and good with at least 2 other fighters), some damage dealing spells and bunch of healing/utilities, good control options (Command / Compelled Duel)... All three Oaths could be good:
- Devotion is probably the most aligned with your background but could be a bit tiptoing on your Cleric Friend.
- Ancients provides a top aura (resistance to magic) and nice mix of spells (ensnaring strike, moonbeam, misty step) which nobody will have in your group.
-Vengeance is you want to be more offensive but your party seems already pretty potent here. :)

Still, Cleric and Druid have their merits: Druid has plenty of useful spells that you alone will have and Moon Druid Wild Shape becomes good in tanking after some levels (especially with ability to burn spell slots to regen). Or be Land Druid with Shillelagh and use all the good spells (Conjurations, Absorb Element/Elemental Bane, Moonbeam, healing/utilities).
A War Cleric (a bit like Paladin but less fight more spells) or Life Cleric (for funny interactions with your Death friend) are not wrong choices either.

So, my main recommendation would be going Ancients Paladin (EDIT: especially if your go Sword and Shield). Then Druid if you like being mainly a caster (tank with conjurations ^^ or protect by debuffing enemies) with sporadic tanking/damaging as WS. Otherwise War/Life Cleric.

[Shining Wrath]

I'm not certain that what you need is a tank. I don't see anyone sneaky in your party, and both the bard and the cleric ought to be able to fight in the front lines, and the fighter or ranger archer won't be squishy. For that matter, the Warlock isn't super squishy.

You might consider Rogue, Monk, or Wizard.

[Citan]

I agree with you on that note but OP already has his character concept set as it seems.
With that said, Paladin is versatile so he can burst damage if need arises.
If OP dropped his initial concept, I'd recommend Wizard only: Rogue is too striker-focused, Monk is good controller but IIRC cannot draw enemies, whereas Wizard can fulfill both roles very well, as well as a correct tanker with some spell combinations. And much more versatile.

[Belac93]

If you want to be a full spellcaster, I would suggest warlock. They are not very squishy, and have some very interesting options. I would say Fiend if you want more combat focused and Great Old One for a more skill focused game.
For a half caster, paladin is nice. Oath of Devotion has good powers, being able to create a glowing magic weapon by level 3 is nice. Ancients gives you magic resistance, enough said. Vengeance I would suggest for a more high damage dealer.
For no casting or quarter caster I would say either fighter/rogue multiclass for damage or full totem barbarian for survivability.

[Shining Wrath]

If OP wants to tank but also have some spell casting, I'll have to second Paladin. As noted, a Moon Druid tanks pretty well and you're a full caster with some interesting out of combat options.

Totem barbarian with certain choices (bear) tanks pretty well.

Just for giggles and grins, consider Wizard (Abjuration).

[ChaosRonin]

Hmm never really considered wizard or druid. Im not stuck in my concept, but I made it in response to no one else in the party being a frontliner. You guys think we need a sneaky type more than a tank type? Gona have to give druids and wizard a look see never really delved deeply into them. Anyways im off to bed now il check back tomorrow. Thanks all

[djreynolds]

Battle master is great cause it gets you used to working with short rests to replenish superiority die but you can still just swing away. Ease into spell casting, but maneuvers are not spells but gives some resource management training. Precision, trip, and menacing. Also distract is good.

I'm a champion and we have no feats. He's really starting to shape up. I'm done increasing strength and grabbed archery at 10th cause its worth 4 points of dexterity and I can throw that into wisdom for saves and con for hit points.

[Submortimer]

Anyways I am thinking of going as the tank or the party and plan on picking up Sentinel at some point so I am kinda stuck between going Paladin or a melee oriented Cleric. Mostly i would just like peoples opinions on what they would go and why, hopefully it will help me finally pick one.

Thanks

Sentinel on a cleric can be bonkers. Here's the kicker: Spirit Guardians.

Round 1: SG, tell it to ignore your allies. Move in, hit everything the light touches for 3d8 (wis save for half).
Enemy round: everything is hit for 3d8 (save for half), and their speed is reduced to half, so they're not running very far.
Round 2: catch any stragglers with your snow globe of glittery death, Hit them in the face with your mace, and cast Spiritual weapon to hit them with your bonus action with a bigger, floatier, glowier mace.
Enemy round 2: 3d8 (save for half)
Repeat til everything is dead, then heal the wounded.


5e clerics are beastly.

[Submortimer]

Anyways I am thinking of going as the tank or the party and plan on picking up Sentinel at some point so I am kinda stuck between going Paladin or a melee oriented Cleric. Mostly i would just like peoples opinions on what they would go and why, hopefully it will help me finally pick one.

Thanks

Sentinel on a cleric can be bonkers. Here's the kicker: Spirit Guardians.

Round 1: SG, tell it to ignore your allies. Move in, hit everything the light touches for 3d8 (wis save for half).
Enemy round: everything is hit for 3d8 (save for half), and their speed is reduced to half, so they're not running very far. Hit them with your OA to keep them close by.
Round 2: catch any stragglers with your snow globe of glittery death, Hit them in the face with your mace, and cast Spiritual weapon to hit them with your bonus action with a bigger, floatier, glowier mace.
Enemy round 2: 3d8 (save for half), pin down any runners with your weapon.
Repeat til everything is dead, then heal the wounded.


5e clerics are beastly.

[Knaight]

So, for instance, you want to tank; if I understand correctly that means your character focuses on guarding the other party members. Why, in-character, is that a priority of theirs? What led them to decide these people were people they should protect?

On the other hand, this can also be ignored entirely. They happen to fight that way is a perfectly legitimate answer, and it doesn't necessarily tie into any sort of deeper personality. The emphasized personality traits and background elements could easily have relatively little to do with the build.

[Sigreid]

As between the two options you posted, definitely Paladin. Clerics are less of a melee powerhouse than they were (at least in 3.x), and a Paladin is a better frontliner. Ancients is really tanky- between +Cha to saves and half damage from spells, you're hard to take down with spells, and with a shield, plate, and d10 HD you have the AC and health to be a tough fight in melee. Make sure to take shield master- it's an incredible feat.

Toss in Shield Master and you effectively get evasion too.

[GiantOctopodes]

haven't read the whole thread yet, so forgive me if this is repeated content, but here are my thoughts:

Between those two, definitely paladin. After all, you already have a cleric! Having a "direct competition" environment is never ideal for part cooperation. Besides, 5E Paladins are BEASTLY. Lots of fun, can't recommend it enough.

Your other options for a tanky melee choice are Barbarian (very tanky, no spellcasting on multiple fronts so fewer out of combat options), fighter (the most ASIs of any class, deals a lot of damage, Battle Masters make the best tanks but Eldritch Knights are a lot of fun too), Druid (off the beaten path, still effective as a tank, lots of out of combat options), or Monk (less traditional as well, more based on avoiding damage than tanking it, but has the best enemy positioning abilities of anyone in this list- they can hold people where they want them with sentinel and push them around as needed with way of the open hand, which imho can be a *lot* of fun, and can push them together for AOEs and position them tactically for other party members in general). My first choice for you would be Paladin, second would be Monk, 3rd would be Druid, 4th Barbarian, 5th Fighter, but that's just me! What do you find exciting (or not) about those classes, and what are you looking for in your gaming experience?

Of the 3 key pillars (combat, interaction, exploration), which most appeals to you as a person, and what do you envision becoming most engaged in?

Really though, if Paladin was one of your first thoughts, with that party composition, you can't go wrong with that choice.

[ChaosRonin]

Damn all the mention of the druid really got me interested in it, I have never really played a real caster, there spell list looks really interesting and like someone else said they bring something completely different to the party, hmm I might try Druid simply because its something I have never done.

[Citan]

Hmm never really considered wizard or druid. Im not stuck in my concept, but I made it in response to no one else in the party being a frontliner. You guys think we need a sneaky type more than a tank type? Gona have to give druids and wizard a look see never really delved deeply into them. Anyways im off to bed now il check back tomorrow. Thanks all

Damn all the mention of the druid really got me interested in it, I have never really played a real caster, there spell list looks really interesting and like someone else said they bring something completely different to the party, hmm I might try Druid simply because its something I have never done.

Fufufu I'm amongst the ones hardselling you the Druid. ^^
With that said, I didn't understand that they were no frontliner (thought that Valor Bard at least was going melee). If there is nobody else who wants to go in melee, then you'll have to provide the aggroer indeed.

For that part, Paladin is a bit better than Druid in first levels to tank himself. In counterpart, Druid has much more versatile gameplay with his spells and can use Conjuration creatures to tank. Also, while you won't be able to cast spells while WS, you can sustain concentration. For example, cast Moonbeam then WildShape. You can now attack in melee while using your bonus action to heal or move Moonbeam area.
>>> If you're curious, go on and try Druid it's a pretty solid choice as well as fun. :)

By the way, I didn't mention any multiclass since I guessed your DM doesn't authorize it?

[ChaosRonin]

Fufufu I'm amongst the ones hardselling you the Druid. ^^
With that said, I didn't understand that they were no frontliner (thought that Valor Bard at least was going melee). If there is nobody else who wants to go in melee, then you'll have to provide the aggroer indeed.

For that part, Paladin is a bit better than Druid in first levels to tank himself. In counterpart, Druid has much more versatile gameplay with his spells and can use Conjuration creatures to tank. Also, while you won't be able to cast spells while WS, you can sustain concentration. For example, cast Moonbeam then WildShape. You can now attack in melee while using your bonus action to heal or move Moonbeam area.
>>> If you're curious, go on and try Druid it's a pretty solid choice as well as fun. :)

By the way, I didn't mention any multiclass since I guessed your DM doesn't authorize it?

Yea I think I will go with the Druid, hehe came asking about Paladin and Cleric and ended up with Druid. Would you recommend Land Or Moon? It seems like Land actually get the better end of the stick but have to take an action to Wildshape and they don't get the Elemental forms but are way better casters. As for Multiclass he hasn't said anything for or against yet so I am not sure I am going to assume yes

[Flashy]

Yea I think I will go with the Druid, hehe came asking about Paladin and Cleric and ended up with Druid. Would you recommend Land Or Moon? It seems like Land actually get the better end of the stick but have to take an action to Wildshape and they don't get the Elemental forms but are way better casters. As for Multiclass he hasn't said anything for or against yet so I am not sure I am going to assume yes

They also have substantially worse wild shape forms in general. If you want to be a melee druid moon is pretty much the only choice. Since you can't cast spells while shapeshifted the land druid bonus spells don't really do anything for you, and would limit your wildshape to CR 1/2 instead of CR 2 for most of the early game. The wildshape progression slows down a bit as you progress, but especially in the very early and very late game moon druid is generally considered overwhelmingly powerful.

[Shining Wrath]

For tanking the Moon Druid is clearly better because you can choose higher CR beasts - level ÷ 3 once you reach 6th. For spells the land druid is better. The bonus action wild shape can save your bacon in surprise encounters.

[Ninja_Prawn]

The bonus action wild shape can save your bacon in surprise encounters.

Get it? 'Cos you could Wildshape into a boar?

...Which is made of bacon!

:smallcool:

[Shining Wrath]

Get it? 'Cos you could Wildshape into a boar?

...Which is made of bacon!

:smallcool:

Strongly recommend not saying that to a boar form druid.

[Citan]

Strongly recommend not saying that to a boar form druid.
Guys... You killed me with this streak of jokes XD


Yea I think I will go with the Druid, hehe came asking about Paladin and Cleric and ended up with Druid. Would you recommend Land Or Moon? It seems like Land actually get the better end of the stick but have to take an action to Wildshape and they don't get the Elemental forms but are way better casters. As for Multiclass he hasn't said anything for or against yet so I am not sure I am going to assume yes
For a pure class, if you want to tank Moon Druid is the best choice by far.
Technically, you could fulfill the role as a Land Druid, but you'd generally have to do it through Conjurations (didn't play a pure Land Druid so maybe I'm mistaken, but he seems a bit frail on the defense side). Apart from that, the selling points of Land imo are...
- First: extra spells, some of them not being available to a "normal" Druid. This is the best benefit by far.
- Second: "Arcane recovery", always nice although not so great (at lvl20 you get 10 points worth, so you can recover one lvl 6 and one lvl4 slots).
- Third: Immunities to poison/disease, immunity to charm/frighten from some creatures: situationally good.

Moon Druid nets you...
- Higher lvl CR (=you can really use your WS in combat)
- Auto-magic attacks when WS
- Life regen as WS.

So, unless you're really interested in one Land Circle in particular, I'd recommend Moon.

As for my question about multiclassing, it's because if authorized, adding Paladin Devotion 3 (+CHA to attacks, smites, you still get lvl9 spells) or Paladin Ancients 7 (Auras +CHA to saving throw, resistance to spells, smites, druid spells up to lvl7) to any Druid would net you some goodies.
Although you lose Unlimited Wild Shape and casting as a beast which are awesome, and it's MAD so it's not necessarily a good choice if your character has a chance to go up to lvl 20. ^^

TL;DR Start as a Moon Druid, enjoy making your enemies "bear" you, and stay as a pure Druid unless 1) you're sure that you'll never make it to 20th lvl or 2) you get bored playing Druid (which I'd say is improbable but you never know...)
Have fun!

[PoeticDwarf]

Hey all, In the next couple days my DnD group will be having our first 5e game moving from our 4e campaign as it wasn't going anywhere, and I need some assistance choosing my class >.>

So we have a Bard going Valor, Warlock going Tome, Death Cleric and a Archer Fighter or Ranger not sure which his going yet.

Anyways I am thinking of going as the tank or the party and plan on picking up Sentinel at some point so I am kinda stuck between going Paladin or a melee oriented Cleric. Mostly i would just like peoples opinions on what they would go and why, hopefully it will help me finally pick one.

Thanks

Because it's your first 5e game, you can keep it simple (in my first 5e I was a social cleric, without melee options, big mistake). So you can go for the paladin or maybe archery ranger/fighter.

[ChaosRonin]

Thanks for all the advice everyone. So I manage to get to the table after work and got to roll for my status ended up with, 13, 14, 11, 9, 16, 14 not really the best. Our bard managed to get an 18 so his starting with a 20 in cha after racial the lucky ass. Hmm wood elf movement speed and dark vision don't carry over to wilds have do they? Maybe dwarf is the better option.

[Flashy]

Thanks for all the advice everyone. So I manage to get to the table after work and got to roll for my status ended up with, 13, 14, 11, 9, 16, 14 not really the best. Our bard managed to get an 18 so his starting with a 20 in cha after racial the lucky ass. Hmm wood elf movement speed and dark vision don't carry over to wilds have do they? Maybe dwarf is the better option.

Moon Druid makes an ideal choice for a character with mediocre rolls since you replace all your physical stats (Str, Dex, Con, HP, AC, etc) with the stats of the form you shift into. Since you don't get ANY racial features in animal form don't choose your race on that basis.

[Ninja_Prawn]

Thanks for all the advice everyone. So I manage to get to the table after work and got to roll for my status ended up with, 13, 14, 11, 9, 16, 14 not really the best. Our bard managed to get an 18 so his starting with a 20 in cha after racial the lucky ass. Hmm wood elf movement speed and dark vision don't carry over to wilds have do they? Maybe dwarf is the better option.

Yes, racial features only apply while you are actually a member of the relevant race.

Also, your stats are solid. Better than the standard array, which is by no means weak. Just having 1no 16 is better than anything you can get from point buy or the SA, and allows you to start with a +4 modifier. That's pretty insane.


SA: 15 14 13 12 10 8
Rolls: 16 14 14 13 11 9

[Citan]

Thanks for all the advice everyone. So I manage to get to the table after work and got to roll for my status ended up with, 13, 14, 11, 9, 16, 14 not really the best. Our bard managed to get an 18 so his starting with a 20 in cha after racial the lucky ass. Hmm wood elf movement speed and dark vision don't carry over to wilds have do they? Maybe dwarf is the better option.
For a Druid, there are not many good races indeed (thanks for making me realize with your thread how little choice there is for WIS based characters).

Good news is, as Druid in melee, you don't need DEX or STR. Ever. ;) You'll either be useing Shillelagh or being WildShape. And as WS, you get physical stats of the beast so STR, DEX, CON. With that said, having a decent DEX is always good for armor and Initiative. Consequently...


Abilities usefulness
STR: you can dump it hard (unless you want to keep option of Paladin multiclass).
DEX: the "no-metal armor" Druid policy means you're stuck with Hide as best armor (max dex +2), so no point in going higher than 14 (and you'll WS often anyways).
CON: good stat for HP and sustaining Concentration. 14 is a minimum, especially if you don't plan on getting proficiency through Resilient or Warcaster feats.
INT: rarely "attacked" and no benefit for your class either, so you can dump it hard (your proficiency will help compensating anyways).
WIS: your golden stat, so obviously 16+ at start, 18 ASAP and possibly 20 if you don't care about Feats.
CHA: some attacks target charisma, it's used in many social skills, and if you want to keep chance to multiclass Paladin, having at least 14 will be necessary for Auras to be useful.

Basically, before taking race choice into account the two obvious stats will be WIS 16, CON 14 (since always good for casters and HP). Also INT 9 since you just don't care at all. You still have 13, 11 and 14 for STR, DEX and CHA. Then your main choices will be...


Candidate races
- Aasimar: +1WIS, +2CHA, darkvision, necrotic+radiant resistance, Light cantrip, Lesser restoration + daylight once a day.
- Human: +1 to all ability scores, .
- Variant Human: Feat, +1 to two stats, +1 skill.
- Half-Elf: +2CHA, +1 on two stats, darkvision, immune to sleep, 2 additional skills.
- Hill Dwarf: Con+2, WIS +1
- Wood Elf: +2DEX, +1WIS, darkvision, immune to sleep, Perception.
Detailed suggestions and opinions for each race in the spoiler.


Hill Dwarf is an obvious choice: you get 16 in CON from the get go, and first ASI will allow you to get WIS to 18. Also, unless I'm mistaken, when WS you have the speed of the beast, so being less mobile as humanoïd is less important.
Hill Dwarf a) STR 11 / DEX 14 / CON 16 / INT 9 / WIS 17 / CHA 14 (you forego the multiclass possibility but get decent charisma for saving throws).
Hill Dwarf b) STR 14 / DEX 14 / CON 16 / INT 9 / WIS 17 / CHA 11 (you'll have to up CHA with the first ASI, then either Resilient or another ASI is you want to multiclass).

With that said, other choice can be good also.
Wood Elf if you like for fluff, put 11 in DEX.
Wood Elf: STR 13 / DEX 13 / CON 14 / INT 9 / WIS 17 / CHA 14
You'll increase DEX and WIS with first ASI and you can multiclass later if you want without any problem.

Half-Elf: similar bonuses to Wood Elf, even better since another +1 to stat (+1WIS, +1 DEX). You can go
a) STR 13 / DEX 11(+1) / CON 14 / INT 9 / WIS 16(+1) / CHA 14(+2) if you intend think probable to multiclass to get +3CHA, or
b) STR 13 / DEX 14 / CON 14 / INT 9 / WIS 16(+1) / CHA 11(+2) and put the last +1 in either INT to remove malus, CON if you plan on getting thougher by ASI or Resilient, DEX if you plan on getting Resilient.

Aasimar: similar to Half-Elf, with one less stat tradeoff for resistances. Half-Elf far better imo.

Human: +1 to all stats is nice, getting you STR 13(+1) / DEX 11(+1) / CON 14 (+1) / INT 9(+1) / WIS 16(+1) / CHA 14(+1). So, ootb multiclassing, no penalty in INT, potential to bump CON and CHA with Resilient feat. Still, the lack of skills/abilities/feats is a bit disappointing.

Variant human: can be a nice alternative, because Feats are very good (if only Warcaster since you'll be in melee or Resilient for a third saving throw). Best bet would be
STR 13 / DEX 11(+1) / CON 14 / INT 9 / WIS 16(+1) / CHA 14. Starting Feat Warcaster or Resilient DEX/CON as you prefer, on your first ASI bump WIS and your other stat.


TL;DR: If you don't really care about races AND you don't care about multiclassing possibility, take Hill Dwarf. Otherwise, Half-Elf/Wood Elf, Human normal and Variant are solid choices too (in the order of my personal opinion best choice > less choice).

Edit: note about multiclass: multiclassing Paladin won't give you heavy armor proficiency. So multiclass will get you a bump in armor only if GM agrees to say that your additional class legitimates breaking the "no-metal armor" policy of Druids so you can equip the best Medium Armors.

Also, about INT, it's certainly a dump stat in terms of mechanics, with that said, it's also the one stat used to remember about many creatures, history and such. Since there is no Wizard nor Arcane Trickster or Eldricht Knight in your party, you may check with them that one has at least a decent INT and/or skill proficiency for those situations. :)

[ChaosRonin]

Citan wow mate, thank you very much for your post Its fantastic, very detailed just what I needed :) I don't think I am going to bother multi-classing If we ever get to 20 I like the Idea of being virtually untouchable :)

Hmm, even tho Dwarf is the superior choice stat wise I don't think I would enjoy it, I don't really like playing dwarfs. Both Half-Elf and Wood Elf look really good, tough decision. As an Elf I like the Idea thematically of being able to live 7000 + years oth Half-Elf gives you good stats all around.

What do you think are essential feats? I'm thinking Sentinel and Warcaster/Reslient.

[Sigreid]

Moon Druid makes an ideal choice for a character with mediocre rolls since you replace all your physical stats (Str, Dex, Con, HP, AC, etc) with the stats of the form you shift into. Since you don't get ANY racial features in animal form don't choose your race on that basis.

True, bot those stats are actually above average. That's a good roll.

[Flashy]

True, bot those stats are actually above average. That's a good roll.

Oh, totally. To be honest I didn't look at them all that closely, I just noticed that there were a couple 11s and one below 10. That's actually a great statblock for a MAD character.

[KorvinStarmast]

Get it? 'Cos you could Wildshape into a boar?

...Which is made of bacon!
Actually, a boar is that from which bacon is made. Smokey The Boar reminds us all that with out extra salt and smoking, there is no bacon.

To answer the opening question, barbarians make for good tanks. Bear totem looks pretty good.

[JellyPooga]

STR: you can dump it hard (unless you want to keep option of Paladin multiclass).
DEX: the "no-metal armor" Druid policy means you're stuck with Hide as best armor (max dex +2), so no point in going higher than 14 (and you'll WS often anyways).
CON: good stat for HP and sustaining Concentration. 14 is a minimum, especially if you don't plan on getting proficiency through Resilient or Warcaster feats.
INT: rarely "attacked" and no benefit for your class either, so you can dump it hard (your proficiency will help compensating anyways).
WIS: your golden stat, so obviously 16+ at start, 18 ASAP and possibly 20 if you don't care about Feats.
CHA: some attacks target charisma, it's used in many social skills, and if you want to keep chance to multiclass Paladin, having at least 14 will be necessary for Auras to be useful.


I agree with this wholeheartedly, but I differ in my opinion about whether Str or Int should be higher. As a Moon Druid, you've got absolutely zero use for Strength. None, zip, nadda. Ok, it has one possible exception; carry capacity, but on the other hand, you're a Druid; get someone else to carry it, like an animal.

If it were me with those rolls, building a Druid, I'd go something like:
Wood Elf
Str: 9
Dex: 14+2=16
Con: 14
Int: 11
Wis: 16+1=17
Cha: 13

I'd be inclined, with this build to go Land Druid and spend more time out of wildshape; full on caster-Druid. This, however, is not so much what you were looking for with the tanking. More suited to the aggro-drawing beef-meister, I think, would be;

Half Elf
Str: 9
Dex: 13+1=14
Con: 14
Int: 11+1=12
Wis: 16
Cha: 14+2=16

NB-I might even be inclined to switch Dex and Int. If you really need high Dex, you've a Wildshape for that, but no beast form will give you higher Int! In combat, the only thing Dex is going to do for you is give higher initiative; after round one, your AC and Acrobatics (if you use it at all) will be dependant on your wild shape form.

Odd numbered stats are pretty useless unless you're looking at a Feat that grants a +1 (Resilient (Con) or (Wis) is a favourite choice of mine for characters that lack one or both proficiencies). A Race that grants +1 Wis is not going to do you any favours with your highest stat being an even number. The only exception would be Variant Human, putting both one of your Racial +1's and taking a Feat that grants +1 Wis to get an effective +2 for Wis:18.

If, as you say, you're looking at the likes of Sentinel (an excellent choice for a tank), then you're not looking at getting the odd +1 from your Feats. Even stats are strictly better, if that's the case.

Half-Elf is, I think, a strictly stronger option between Wood Elf and Half-Elf. You will maintain the bonus skill proficiencies and high mental ability scores you get from being Half-Elf whilst in Wild Shape, whereas the benefits of Wood Elf will largely be lost (except the +1 Wisdom, which really isn't doing much for you). This is to say nothing about the roleplaying aspects involved; if you prefer the Wood Elf fluff, then totally go for that. My advice here is strictly from a TO point of view.

If you decide to go Half-Elf Moon Druid; a word on skills. You'll have 2 from Race, 2 from Class and 2 from Background. Have you given any thought to what Background you want? Folk Hero, Hermit and Outlander are all thematically appropriate. Between your Class pick and Background, you should have all the "Druid-y" skills covered (Nature, Survival, Animal Handling).

Your Racial skills, on the other hand can be anything. If you've got the high Cha I suggested above, then investing in both Intimidate and Persuasion will make you as effective out of combat as you'll be in combat; a secondary face-character to the Bard, perhaps, but even he will botch a roll every now and then (and nothing's quite as scary as a Bear...that's some grounds for Advantage right there if you play your cards right!)

Alternatively, Stealth is always handy to have and with your wildshape options, you can scout better than anyone. Weasels have an impressive 16 Dex and proficiency in Stealth (which you gain when in that form), so it's not so necessary to have the proficiency yourself at lower levels, but at higher levels, when Bat and Hawk form become available, the Stealth proficiency will come in handy.

Acrobatics is also nice to have, but probably a better option would be Athletics. Most things Acrobatics can do with regards to evading danger, Athletics can do also, except Athletics has offensive capability also, in the form of Grappling, which is a solid tanking tactic.

Don't forget Perception! Whether you get it from Class, Background or Race, you do not want to miss the opportunity you're high Wisdom offers. Everyone wants high Perception; you'll be second only to those Rogues and Bards that put Expertise in it, in that regard.

[Citan]

I agree with this wholeheartedly, but I differ in my opinion about whether Str or Int should be higher. As a Moon Druid, you've got absolutely zero use for Strength. None, zip, nadda. Ok, it has one possible exception; carry capacity, but on the other hand, you're a Druid; get someone else to carry it, like an animal.

Don't forget Perception! Whether you get it from Class, Background or Race, you do not want to miss the opportunity you're high Wisdom offers. Everyone wants high Perception; you'll be second only to those Rogues and Bards that put Expertise in it, in that regard.
I fully agree with you, but I stated that I kept STR at a correct level in case OP wanted to keep the chance to multiclass at a later level.
Sure, if he's certain not to multiclass, putting the 9 in STR to have higher INT is obviously better.
Also agree that even dropping DEX could be nice, if only he spent most of time wild shaped. Otherwise, it's better to keep +2 for armor/initiative/avoiding spells imo (since, for most of his carrier, he'll have to be humanoïd to cast spells).

I follow you nearly completely on the Skill choices (I say nearly because didn't read in detail :p).


Citan wow mate, thank you very much for your post Its fantastic, very detailed just what I needed :) I don't think I am going to bother multi-classing If we ever get to 20 I like the Idea of being virtually untouchable :)

Hmm, even tho Dwarf is the superior choice stat wise I don't think I would enjoy it, I don't really like playing dwarfs. Both Half-Elf and Wood Elf look really good, tough decision. As an Elf I like the Idea thematically of being able to live 7000 + years oth Half-Elf gives you good stats all around.

What do you think are essential feats? I'm thinking Sentinel and Warcaster/Reslient.

As for Wood or Half Elf, I'd say go Wood Elf only if you prefer for fluff, otherwise I'd say definitely Half-Elf. I find it at least as good to have +2 CHA +1WIS and +1 another than +1WIS +2DEX, considering your rolls. And imo, racial bonus/abilities of Half-Elf are just plain better (Darvision, 2 free skills in whole list, languages, immune to sleep).

For feats, Sentinel can be good choice indeed. First priority should be Concentration protection, so Warcaster/Resilient(CON). I'd recommend...
a) Resilient IF you plan on getting at least 16 CON. (potentially spares another ASI).
b) Warcaster if you don't plan on bumping CON. Sure, you get proficiency only against concentration breaking, but the other benefits allow you to be useful in close range even if you're not wildshaped (so you can bear one-handed weapon and shield and still cast as you like).

For a Pure Druid, you'll get 5 ASI/Feats. If you forego multiclass and be Half-Elf, you'll have many nice choices with this pre-racial distribution (still keep DEX at 14 for Initiative, humanoid armor and evasion).
STR 9 / DEX 14 / CON 14 / INT 13 / WIS 16 / CHA 11.

You put the last +1 in CON to prepare a bump. So...
Starting stats: STR 9 / DEX 14 / CON 14(+1) / INT 13 / WIS 16(+1) / CHA 11(+2).
Then...
1. ASI: +1WIS, +1CON. You now have WIS 18 (+4) / CON 16 (+3).
2. Warcaster.
3. ASI: +1 WIS, +1 INT. You know have INT 14 (+2)
4. Observant: +1 WIS and nice passive Perception/Investigation bonus. You know have max WIS.
5. Sentinel.
Final stats: STR 9 / DEX 14 / CON 16 / INT 14 / WIS 20 / CHA 13.
It's only one example among many in fact, depending on the feats you want and the role you play.

You use other +1 to get INT 14 ootb. So...
Starting stats: STR 9 / DEX 14 / CON 14 / INT 13(+1) / WIS 16(+1) / CHA 11(+2). Intelligent
Then...
1. ASI: +1WIS, +1CON you know have WIS 18 (+4)
2. Resilient: CON you know have CON 16 (+3) and saving throws.
3. ASI: +1WIS, +1CHA you know have CHA 14 (+2)
4. Observant: WIS 20.
5. Sentinel.
Final stats: STR 9 / DEX 14 / CON 16 / INT 14 / WIS 20 / CHA 14
You forego Warcaster benefits to get proficiency in CON. Perfect for a WS Druid. You also get strong bumps to Perception and Investigation and overall good stats for combat and RP when you're not a beast.



You stay with 18 WIS and instead take 4 feats. So...
Starting stats: STR 9 / DEX 14 / CON 14(+1) / INT 13 / WIS 16(+1) / CHA 11(+2).
Then
1. ASI: +WIS, +INT.
2. Resilient:CON.
3. Sentinel.
4. Resilient:CHA
5. Any other (Lucky, Mage Slayer, Mobile, Tough, Savage Attacker etc)...
Final stats: STR 9 / DEX 14 / CON 16 / INT 14 / WIS 18 / CHA 14.
This build would be recommended for a heavy melee Druid who spends most time in WS. You trade a +1 mod to your spellcasting ability for extremely good durability:
- Pretty sure to maintain concentration. :)
- Proficiency in at least CON, CHA, WIS, INT (enfeebling, poison, charm/frighten, debilitating).
- Still one Feat available for customization.
- You could even trade Sentinel for Resilient: STR (for battle tricks and some spells) AND take Resilient: DEX (the +1 is wasted but you can avoid most spells) as 5th feat. Making you proficient in everything to be THE tank.



Objective... Being very good at INT. :)
Starting stats: STR 9 / DEX 14 / CON 14 / INT 13(+1) / WIS 16(+1) / CHA 11 (+2)
1. ASI: +1 WIS, +1 INT.
2. ASI: +1 WIS, +1 INT.
3. ASI: +1 WIS, +1 CON. (or: Observant +WIS)
4. Resilient: CON. (or: Warcaster)
5. Sentinel
Final stats: STR 9 / DEX 14 / CON 14 / INT 16 / WIS 20 / CHA 13
Be the Master of Knowledge in your party without sacrificing your combat ability. Good if you're the only one able to be good at INT.

[ChaosRonin]

Alright you convinced me, I'm going Half-Elf.


If you decide to go Half-Elf Moon Druid; a word on skills. You'll have 2 from Race, 2 from Class and 2 from Background. Have you given any thought to what Background you want? Folk Hero, Hermit and Outlander are all thematically appropriate. Between your Class pick and Background, you should have all the "Druid-y" skills covered (Nature, Survival, Animal Handling).

I think I am going to take Outlander Background, which will give me Athletics, Survival, Perception, Insight and I am thinking of taking Arcana/Stealth and Intimidate/Persuasion depending on my party members skills, hopefully they get back to me soon.

So more CON is generally better? How often does Warcaster's other benefits come up for a Moon Druid. It seems to me like Resliant works better.

Thanks for the builds it gives me a solid idea were to take him. Also how important is it to get to 20 Wis for a Moon Druid? Does the last +1 really make or break spell chance?

[Yagyujubei]

I would consider taking a look at totem Barbarian/Druid MC. If you want to be tanky, you can't get much better than that.

it's quite MAD since you need 13 STR to MC but you can dump INT and CHA and do ok with it.

this will allow you to rage while in animal form which is pretty crazy. you can go bear totem and get resistance to all dmg. effectively doubling the HP of whatever beast you take the form of, as well as adding some dps. on top of that rage gives you advantages on grapples and shoves so pouncing on someone to knock them prone becomes an easily attainable goal.

so here's a possible build:

roll with Wood elf for +2dex +1wis perception, and 35ft movespeed

STR 14
DEX 14 +2 racial for 16
CON 16
WIS 13 +1 racial for 14
INT 9
CHA 11

Skills: Perception(racial), Acrobatics(BG), Stealth or athletics(BG), Animal Handling, Nature

Keep in mind that the PHB allows you to use any two skills from your BG and encourages making custom BGs so don't feel limited by the options there.

split moon druid 17/ totem bard 3 if you want full 9th level casting or 15 druid/5 barbarian if you want a more melee centric build (extra attack works in beast form) or if you really want the ASI's you can sacrifice 9th level spells for a 16/4 split..but I dont think 1 asi is worth trading 9th level spells or extra attack.

[JellyPooga]

I think I am going to take Outlander Background, which will give me Athletics, Survival, Perception, Insight and I am thinking of taking Arcana/Stealth and Intimidate/Persuasion depending on my party members skills, hopefully they get back to me soon.

Waiting to see what your party members is a solid idea, but don't forget that some skills are good to duplicate. Stealth being one of them.


So more CON is generally better? How often does Warcaster's other benefits come up for a Moon Druid. It seems to me like Resliant works better.

The more Con you can squeeze into any build, the better. That's just a rule of thumb, but it's particularly relevant to any caster thinking of getting into melee. Warcaster for a Moon Druid isn't the best choice. In wildshape, you're really only getting 1/3rd of the benefit of the feat, because you can't cast spells at all whilst wild-shaping. I'd recommend taking Resilient (Con) over Warcaster, myself, only taking the latter as a secondary choice later on if you're still struggling to maintain concentration.


Also how important is it to get to 20 Wis for a Moon Druid? Does the last +1 really make or break spell chance?

For a Moon Druid? 20 Wis is not that important. At early levels, your gnarly wildshaping is much more of a focus for your character than spellcasting. At higher levels, when your wildshape forms start to fall behind the power-curve, your spellcasting takes more of a fore, but by that point, the extra +1 for having Wis:20 over Wis:18 is not much to shout about and by no means a necessity. If it were me, I'd focus on picking up Feats. Possibly along the lines of (with the stat array I'd use);

Str: 9
Dex: 11+1=12
Con: 14
Int: 13+1=14
Wis: 16
Cha: 14+2=16

Lvl.4 - Sentinel
---This makes you "tanky"
Lvl.8 - Resilient (Con)
---By this stage, you've got a plethora of spells you want maintained in melee; proficiency in Con Saves is pretty much a must-have.
Lvl.12 - ASI (+2 Wis)
---By now, you're relying more on your spells than your melee abilities in wildshape. You need that Wisdom bump.
Lvl.16 - Mobile
---At this stage, most things you're fighting have greater reach than you do. Mobile not only increases the speed of all your wildshape forms, but also allows you to avoid Opportunity Attacks from using that speed.
Lvl.19 - Lucky (or, frankly, whatever you want by this point)
---At level 19, you're playing with Lvl.9 spells and are officially one of the most powerful beings in existence. An extra +1 to any of your stats, or some minor extra ability you could have picked up at lvl.4 is not going to be a significant increase in your potency by comparison!