Please help with Ranger Build

[techsamurai5000]

I just started playing a 5e campaign and it's a first for all of us. I played 3e and 3.5e extensively, but I skipped 4e and haven't played in years so I'm a bit rusty on my character building as it is and now the rules are all different...

Anyway, I am already a 4th level Ranger so I can't change the first 4 levels (so I can't start as a Fighter or a Rogue for the saves or skills) and I've already taken the Two-Weapon Fighting Style and Sharpshooter (I know not specializing isn't ideal here, but my party is very back heavy.. 1 frontliner, 3 casters, and me so I have to switch between ranged and melee a lot). I came up with 3 builds to choose between and they're all the same up to 11th level. At that point, I don't know where to turn and I was hoping some of you that are more experienced with 5e could help.

At 11th level, I'll have:

Ranger (Hunter) 8 / Rogue (Assassin) 3 - at this point I'll have Two-Weapon Fighting, Sharpshooter, Assassinate, and Alert

From here I could either go:

Ranger 15 / Rogue 3 / Fighter 2 - This would add Archery Style and Action Surge to double up on the Assassinate round plus another feat (Defensive Duelist or Lucky) for a total of 3 feats or,

Ranger 17 / Rogue 3 - 5th level spells at 4 feats (Defensive Duelist AND Lucky?) or,

Ranger 16 / Rogue 4 - Give up 5th level spells for a 5th feat.

What do you all think?

[coredump]

Its not very fulfilling, but my advice is to wait until you are at least 9-10th level before worrying about it. See how the game develops, see what PCs are still with you. See if you like the Ranger stuff or the Rogue stuff better. See how often you wish you had another fighting style and Action Surge....

No need to decide at 4th level when you don't need the answer until 12th level.

[techsamurai5000]

I guess the biggest question is how bad is losing that 5th level spell going to hurt?

And is that 5th level spell more awesome than Action Surge+Assassinate?

[GiantOctopodes]

the biggest missing piece here is, what's your party composition? Also, what do you most enjoy in the game?

Personally I like Ranger single classed, and if you're going to multiclass my favorite combo (though steep stat requirements) is Ranger 5 / Bard 6, to get skills, expertise, haste, and more. There are other options but that one is my personal favorite. My reasons are detailed here: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?424239-Ranger5-Bard6-X

I'll point out that crits aren't as impactful as many people seem to give them credit for (they only double dice, not static modifiers, so unless you get a lot of bonus dice from somewhere, like a Paladin or heavily invested Rogue it doesn't do that much), and you can only sneak attack 1/round, which remains true even if you action surge. Not saying Rogue is a bad choice, just things to keep in mind. Also, if you stretch that to Ranger 5 / Bard 10, you have 5th level spells, including swift quiver if you really want it (imho haste is better). You seem to want ASIs though, any particular reason? What did you have in mind for picking up with them?

(In terms of getting ASIs with that build, you would go Ranger 5 / Bard 6 / Battlemaster or Eldritch Knight Fighter 8 to still snag 5 ASIs, and either have maneuvers aplenty or more spell slots, with the better one imho being Battlemaster)

I guess my point is, I'd love to have more info, to be able to give better advice

[techsamurai5000]

OK, we have a Paladin Tank, a Bard, a Sorcerer, and a Wizard (no redundancy here!! :biggrin:) I'm kind of a variable.. ranged until the bad guys get too close, then switch to melee since we only have 1 dedicated frontliner.

I want to avoid multiclassing into any of those classes.. I don't want to step on anyone's toes. As for assassinate, I'm kind of more interested in the advantage on rolls instead of crits, which are also nice. roll20.net's dice roller hasn't been my friend :smalltongue:

With Action Surge, I could do 2 volleys as an opener. I just don't know if it's worth what I'd have to give up.

In my group, it's everyone's first time with 5e and some people's first time with DnD in general.

Thanks for any help you can give!

[djreynolds]

What are your stats? Are you or the bard scouting? Who's aiding that paladin with healing? 4 levels of assassin gives auto crit, cunning action and two expertised skills.4 levels of fighter battlemaster gives you trip, party, and presicion. 12 levels rangers gets your volley. 5 asi, two fighting styles. Grab sharpshooter.

Don't forget tempest or war cleric.

[techsamurai5000]

Str 14, Dex 20, Con 12, Int 11, Wis 16, Cha 10

I am scouting, the bard is healing, though I do have the Cure Wounds spell for emergencies. I was looking at 4 levels of rogue for the extra ASI at 4th level and I don't really want to keep track of superiority dice...

But what's better? A 5th level spell or a 5th ASI?

[Citan]

Hi! :)
First, if you want simple multiclass, I second the Ranger / Bard suggestion. Not so MAD dependent (if you drop WIS and instead pump CHA as your spellcasting stat) and brings many good things, while not necessarily tip-toing on other class (Bard has many spells to choose from and you won't be a full spellcaster anyways).

Also, it seems you have only one front-liner. Options will depend on what you want to do...
- Being versatile (balance ranged/melee, crowd/strike) ?
- Geing a striker first (Rogue)?
- Being a crowd controller first (Ranger Volley)?
- Being in melee with Paladin or stay in the back?
- Being good at healing/utility (Cleric, Druid, Bard)

For a ranged crowd cleaner, Volley is a no-brainer with Paladin who aggroes. Also note that Volley is strictly better than Whirlwind as long as you have Crossbow Expert feat.

Bard 6 could net you Elemental Weapon as your main buff: redundant with Hunter's Mark for a Striker, but shines against a crowd. Or any good lvl3 offensive/utility spell.
On that note, I wonder if you could retrain a Magic Secret spell for a higher one when you gain level. I suppose not, could be op otherwise. ^^

Druid is not MAD and very good for your party: many exclusive spells that can help, especially if you stay "away". For example...
Casting Conjure Animals to help Paladin (synergizes with Paladin's Crusader's Mantle).
Or cast Elemental Bane on an enemy to help spike Paladin (Elemental Weapon) and Sorcerer/Wizard. Sure Wizard/Bard(MS) can do this also, but you "free" their Concentration slot for something potentially more useful, so no tiptoeing.

Basically:
- Balanced physical: Ranger 11+ for Volley, Rogue 5+ (ex 12/8 for max ASI), Figher 2.
- Striker >>> pump Rogue essentially (Ranger 12/Rogue8 if you want to stay Ranger as main, maybe take BeastMaster then, otherwise Rogue 11 / Ranger 9). Works in melee and ranged.
- Versatile: Ranger 11+ Volley / Moon Druid 8+ (Life Cleric 1 if your party feels they really lack healing but I don't think so).

Ranger 11 / Druid 9 (or 12/8 if you need ASI) would be my recommendation for you: good ranged attack, occasional tank/melee with WS, many very good spells that cover all needs and synergize with allies, best healing if you drop 1 ranger for 1 life cleric, no multi-ability dependency, perfect fluff-wise and no tip-toeing with other classes.

Note that I dropped Rogue entirely because I feel Assassin is good but a bit expensive for "just" a surprise round. With that said, if it's important for you to have it then I'd recommend Ranger 11 / Assassin 3 / Lore Bard 6 if CHA high enough (for Magic Secrets cheese) otherwise Druid 6.

Str 14, Dex 20, Con 12, Int 11, Wis 16, Cha 10
I am scouting, the bard is healing, though I do have the Cure Wounds spell for emergencies. I was looking at 4 levels of rogue for the extra ASI at 4th level and I don't really want to keep track of superiority dice...
But what's better? A 5th level spell or a 5th ASI?
Depends.
Stats-wise...
If you want to use offensive spells, getting WIS to 18 at least seems mandatory. Then your priority is to get enough ASI bumps for that: perfect thing would be 1 ASI then Resilient WISDOM or 2*(1WIS+1CON).
Otherwise, bumping CON and INT with ASI+Resilient CON should be enough as far as stats are concerned imo (so 2 ASI/feats). Or take Warcaster and Resilient INT. Or drop the matter entirely and stay with those stats.

Feats-wise
What feats are really important for you? I'd say that either Crossbow Expert, Sharpshooter or Warcaster are important depending on your style (pure physical / always ranged / heavy spell use). Any other feat may be good also.

Most builds gives at least 3 ASI/Feats. make your choice depending on how many feats you really really want. :)
My personal suggestion: 4 ASI/Feats: Warcaster, ASI INT+WIS, Resilient:WIS, Sharpshooter.

[Yagyujubei]

your party seems for be rife with magic, so lowing out on your 5th level spell slot wont be an issue at all, go with whatever you think will be the most fun. but that's crazy endgame when this would even come into play so you have plenty of time to think about it.

PERSONALLY looking at your team comp I would go way less magical and stop ranger at level 5 just getting the second attack, and then take rogue to 15. this gets you the 5ASI and 8d6 sneak attack dice which coupled with smites from your pally, and Hold person spells from your mages will be ungodly powerful.

I would pick thief as my subclass because if you aren't going pure rogue i consider it better than assassin, and with all those mages in your group you could have them craft magical devices that you could take great advantage of.

I would consider taking dual wielder and sentinel and focus more on melee combat, hanging up with the paladin you will likely get 2 sneak attacks per round this way.

this is just what I would do though.

[techsamurai5000]

That's a very interesting idea, I'm definitely consider it, but I have a question.. Isn't streak attack limited to one per turn?

[Yagyujubei]

That's a very interesting idea, I'm definitely consider it, but I have a question.. Isn't streak attack limited to one per turn?

yeah, BUT if you OA an enemy you are attacking on their turn not yours.

so basically you can get the sneak attack on your turn, and then again using your reaction to OA an enemy. the reason I mentioned sentinel is just that getting that OA to happen can be pretty difficult and having it makes it much easier to get that OA

[MeeposFire]

the biggest missing piece here is, what's your party composition? Also, what do you most enjoy in the game?

Personally I like Ranger single classed, and if you're going to multiclass my favorite combo (though steep stat requirements) is Ranger 5 / Bard 6, to get skills, expertise, haste, and more. There are other options but that one is my personal favorite. My reasons are detailed here: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?424239-Ranger5-Bard6-X

I'll point out that crits aren't as impactful as many people seem to give them credit for (they only double dice, not static modifiers, so unless you get a lot of bonus dice from somewhere, like a Paladin or heavily invested Rogue it doesn't do that much), and you can only sneak attack 1/round, which remains true even if you action surge. Not saying Rogue is a bad choice, just things to keep in mind. Also, if you stretch that to Ranger 5 / Bard 10, you have 5th level spells, including swift quiver if you really want it (imho haste is better). You seem to want ASIs though, any particular reason? What did you have in mind for picking up with them?

(In terms of getting ASIs with that build, you would go Ranger 5 / Bard 6 / Battlemaster or Eldritch Knight Fighter 8 to still snag 5 ASIs, and either have maneuvers aplenty or more spell slots, with the better one imho being Battlemaster)

I guess my point is, I'd love to have more info, to be able to give better advice

Well a rogue with action surge can get two SA in a round by using action surge to hold an action until a later turn and then you would get SA a second time.

[djreynolds]

Str 14, Dex 20, Con 12, Int 11, Wis 16, Cha 10

I am scouting, the bard is healing, though I do have the Cure Wounds spell for emergencies. I was looking at 4 levels of rogue for the extra ASI at 4th level and I don't really want to keep track of superiority dice...

But what's better? A 5th level spell or a 5th ASI?

If you're going ranger for the primary character, you need 11, just grab a few levels of rogue since he gets uncanny and evasion as well. So just grab 3 levels, I know about the asi but its worth it. Grab assassin. Now grab three levels of battle master, why? Precision, sucks missing on your sneak attack.

Now the crazy part, grab GWF as your style. If you need to drop that bow, the **** has hit the fan. Grab the great sword and swing away. Thanks to cunning action, you can disengage and go back and shoot the bow.

Now you have 3 levels left and you can grab those at 17th level.

Grab assassin early, for 3 and grab battle master as well for 3. Then go ranger the rest of the way and then take a level in assassin for 4, or fighter when you need the feat or asi.

[PoeticDwarf]

I just started playing a 5e campaign and it's a first for all of us. I played 3e and 3.5e extensively, but I skipped 4e and haven't played in years so I'm a bit rusty on my character building as it is and now the rules are all different...

Anyway, I am already a 4th level Ranger so I can't change the first 4 levels (so I can't start as a Fighter or a Rogue for the saves or skills) and I've already taken the Two-Weapon Fighting Style and Sharpshooter (I know not specializing isn't ideal here, but my party is very back heavy.. 1 frontliner, 3 casters, and me so I have to switch between ranged and melee a lot). I came up with 3 builds to choose between and they're all the same up to 11th level. At that point, I don't know where to turn and I was hoping some of you that are more experienced with 5e could help.

At 11th level, I'll have:

Ranger (Hunter) 8 / Rogue (Assassin) 3 - at this point I'll have Two-Weapon Fighting, Sharpshooter, Assassinate, and Alert

From here I could either go:

Ranger 15 / Rogue 3 / Fighter 2 - This would add Archery Style and Action Surge to double up on the Assassinate round plus another feat (Defensive Duelist or Lucky) for a total of 3 feats or,

Ranger 17 / Rogue 3 - 5th level spells at 4 feats (Defensive Duelist AND Lucky?) or,

Ranger 16 / Rogue 4 - Give up 5th level spells for a 5th feat.

What do you all think?

Why you're only taking feats, are all stats already 20?

[techsamurai5000]

The only one I really care about is.. Dex is 20. Stats are listed a few posts up.

[djreynolds]

Take battle master 3, grab archery style and precision and parry, parry is on the level with defensive duelist and precision can add superiority die to your roll, lucky just lets you roll again.

In the guides section is a rogue link to the death dealers handbook. Your ranger build is there. Your just grabbing 3 fighter and 3 rogue, IMO some class features are better than feats. Superiority die, precision, will make sneak attack and sharpshooter hit more often.

Check out the builds, the designer did his homework for us.

[techsamurai5000]

That's an awesome idea, thanks!