Stealth Warlock [3.5]

[Maeglin_Dubh]

Warlock, with the at-will Darkness and Invisibility and Flight, seems like a good infiltrator chassis. His skill list seems to be lacking for the purpose, but apparently Chameleon is a solid dip to help with that?

What other methods should I consider to make a super-sneaky Warlock?

[mabriss lethe]

There are several feats in Drow of the Underdark that allow you to burn a use of a Darkness SLA for alternate effects. They pair rather well with the darkness invocation because it's an at-will resource.

[Troacctid]

Chameleon doesn't really help much with that, actually, since it doesn't get Hide or Move Silently as class skills, not does it advance your invocations. It's a good lategame dip once you can get actual stuff off the floating feat, but it's pretty useless for you before, like, level 12 or so.

A better option would be Urban Savant, which is more or less the gold standard of skillmonkey options for Warlocks. Full casting, and it has the class skills and skill points you need, plus useful class features.

You'll also probably want the Blend Into Darkness feat to hide in plain sight.

[Maeglin_Dubh]

Does +1 to Existing Spellcaster Level advance blast die and available Invocations?

[Troacctid]

Yes it does. See Complete Arcane, page 18.

[ben-zayb]

How about a Beguiler "dip" at level 1 for (6+Int)x4 skill points to pour on stealth, among other things, then taking the Able Learner feat by having the (human) subtype or by being a Changeling*. Unseen Seer, qualified via Beguiler but progressing Warlock, will give you couple of skill points and stealth skill as class skills, in case Able Learner just doesn't cut it.



* (AFB but RAW says Changelings qualify for Chameleon, which suggests RAI of qualifying for Able Learner too)

[J-H]

Scout might be a decent dip if you want to take a level to dump skill points into things like Hide. Lots of skill points, all the class skills you want, and 1d6 of skirmish fits well with your standard-action eldritch blast.

[Socratov]

One thing though, the darkness invocation explicitly states that it cannot be pierced by darkvision. So you will need a way to see through magical darkness (or get the voidsense invocation)

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Spellthief 1/ Warlock 4/ Assassin 1/ Unseen Seer 10/ whatever, you'll need to pick two divination spells for your two Assassin spells known. Be sure to take Practiced Spellcaster and Darkstalker, and Craven is another great choice. Spellthief allows you to use wands of Wizard spells from the schools that it gets access to. Make the character a Human for Able Learner to make it easier to meet all the skill requirements.

You could choose to advance your Assassin spellcasting with four of those Unseen Seer levels to get 3rd level spells, which qualifies you for Spellwarp Sniper and/or Arcane Trickster (Spell Hand feat), but it costs you four levels of Warlock invocations and damage.


One thing though, the darkness invocation explicitly states that it cannot be pierced by darkvision. So you will need a way to see through magical darkness (or get the voidsense invocation)

There's also a feat called At Home In The Deep in Drow of the Underdark. There's also Blend Into Shadows, which enables you to make a hide check as a swift action even while being observed, which is amazing with a sneak attacking Warlock.

[Sagetim]

I would figure with blend into darkness you're halfway done. I would suggest using able learner and just taking hide and move silently as cross class skills. Alternatively, pick up martial study with Shadowhand to make hide a class skill once you qualify for it. Between that, Blend into Darkness, and your darkness ability you'll be able to use hide in plain sight within your darkness warlock power quite effectively. Add in a cloak of elvenkind and boots of elvenkind, or armor enhancements, and you'll be fine on stealth even without full ranks in move silently. The advantage of this method is that it lets you focus on warlocking things instead of jumping into some kind of messy multiclassing option that doesn't have to do directly with warlocking stuff.

Edit: Oh, right Martial Study doesn't require anything in 3.5. So you could take that at one, along with able learner, and as a warlock power devil sight (or whatever the first level one that lets you see through darkness and magical darkness is. I think that's devil's sight). Then pick up blend into darkness asap and darkness as your second warlock power, while the third least power can go to eldritch spear for long ranged blasting.

[Socratov]

Hm... I'll see if I can think up something when I'm back home and have access to my digital collection. I think a stealth warlock focused on scouting would be fantastic.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Changeling Rogue 1 (racial sub level)/Warlock. Get 10+Int skills at first level, and with Able Learner they're effectively class skills all the time. Sneak Attack + Craven is a nice damage boost at all levels, and Social Intuition combos well with Beguiling Influence. Beyond that... most good rouge/caster PrCs require spells of a specific level, which the Warlock does not RAW qualify for. (But given that invocations have equivalent spell levels, it's worth asking your GM). I think the only one you qualify for is Daggerspell Mage, which is... a decent option, but does require two crappy feats.

Alternate option: If you can persuade your GM that a spellthief casting a stolen spell counts as "able to cast Xth level spells," then the Master Spellthief feat means you're golden: Unseen Seer, Spellwarp Sniper, Arcane Trickster, all that good stuff open up to you.

[KillianHawkeye]

One thing though, the darkness invocation explicitly states that it cannot be pierced by darkvision. So you will need a way to see through magical darkness (or get the voidsense invocation)

Devil's Sight least invocation grants vision through darkness and magical darkness out to thirty feet. It's probably a lot more useful than 30-foot blindsense for these purposes, and available earlier.

[Socratov]

Devil's Sight least invocation grants vision through darkness and magical darkness out to thirty feet. It's probably a lot more useful than 30-foot blindsense for these purposes, and available earlier.

I'd take it as long as I coulnd't take voidsense since it also reveals invisible and just about everything. Plus, you'd need to couple these invocations. I'd also say that if you are high level enough I'd walk around with a bag of marbles which I darknessed everyday at the beginning of hte day to create a sort of darkness bomb or darkness beads to throw around creating chaos and confusion.

[Thurbane]

Yes it does. See Complete Arcane, page 18.

That's what I thought too, but apparently not. It does boost access to and number of invocations known, but doesn't boost damage die.

[Urpriest]

That's what I thought too, but apparently not. It does boost access to and number of invocations known, but doesn't boost damage die.

That page specifically says it boosts eldritch blast damage. Or was there errata?

[Sagetim]

That page specifically says it boosts eldritch blast damage. Or was there errata?

If they eratta'd that damage isn't advanced, that would be nonsensical.

[Karnith]

That's what I thought too, but apparently not. It does boost access to and number of invocations known, but doesn't boost damage die.

That page specifically says it boosts eldritch blast damage. Or was there errata?
There was no errata regarding how Warlocks interact with PrCs (unless it was an update in a later book?), so I am also curious as to what this is referring to. Per Complete Arcane:

Warlocks benefit in a specific way from prestige classes that have "+1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class" or "+1 level of existing spellcasting class" as a level advancement benefit. A warlock taking levels in such a prestige class does not gain any of his class abilities, but he does gain an increased caster level when using his invocations and increased damage with his eldritch blast. Levels of prestige classes that provide +1 level of spellcasting effectively stack with the warlock's level to determine his eldritch blast damage [...] and his eldritch blast caster level(Emphasis mine)

[Thurbane]

My apologies, I was getting confused with boosts to CL only, such as from the Practiced Magic feat. PrCs that actually boost +1 effective (arcane) level of existing class do indeed boost damage.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I did something similar once using Arcane Trickster. Granted, there was a house rule that being able to use an invocation which mimics a 3rd level spell counts as being able to cast a 3rd level spell for purposes of qualification (which normally it does not), but even that can be sidestepped with Nosmiatic Chirgeon. Also picked up Mindbender dip for Mindsight. I was the party recon scout and mobile fire support.

While it wouldn't really work very well in mid to high levels of optimization, it works perfectly well at most tables.

[Maeglin_Dubh]

If I used Shadowcaster, would Noctumancer advance both my mysteries and my invocations and blast?

[Troacctid]

If I used Shadowcaster, would Noctumancer advance both my mysteries and my invocations and blast?

Yes, and you could even finish up with Mystic Theurge after you've taken all 10 levels of Noctumancer, since Shadowcaster can count as the divine side of Mystic Theurge. However, you'll need to talk to your DM about qualifying for Noctumancer, because taking extra levels of Wizard to get 2nd level arcane spells isn't really a viable option.

[Sagetim]

If I used Shadowcaster, would Noctumancer advance both my mysteries and my invocations and blast?

Yesbut.


Yes, but you would still need to get the ability to cast 2nd level arcane spells somehow, such as having a level of sorcerer and precocious apprentice as your level 1 starting feat and class level. Since Noctumancer says it adds +1 to arcane spellcasting class that can be applied to warlock. And because of the way it's entry in mysteries/spells is written, you can have it advance warlock instead of the class that actually gave you 2nd level arcane spells.

[Maeglin_Dubh]

So, Noctumancer would be better entered as a Beguiler or something.

Back to Warlock. It seems Changeling Rogue1/Warlock19 is the best way to go, since Warlock doesn't qualify for very much in the way of PrC's.

[Troacctid]

Urban Savant is an easy prestige class to qualify for as a Warlock.

[Sagetim]

There's Binder (for Naberius) cheese to counter the con damage from hellfire warlock, but I wouldn't suggest it. Mostly because I think any plan that involves dealing con damage to yourself is a dumb plan.

Enlightened Soul has some really nice essences if you're willing to give up on variety in your options (some of which you can get back with extra invocation, but still). Being able to drop a dimensional anchor on a target with each hit is pretty nice.

And if you want raw damage dealing power, go with a psionic race so you can pick up psionic shot, greater psionic shot, and psychic meditation (you don't need fell shot, you already do touch attacks).

[Socratov]

There's Binder (for Naberius) cheese to counter the con damage from hellfire warlock, but I wouldn't suggest it. Mostly because I think any plan that involves dealing con damage to yourself is a dumb plan.

Enlightened Soul has some really nice essences if you're willing to give up on variety in your options (some of which you can get back with extra invocation, but still). Being able to drop a dimensional anchor on a target with each hit is pretty nice.

And if you want raw damage dealing power, go with a psionic race so you can pick up psionic shot, greater psionic shot, and psychic meditation (you don't need fell shot, you already do touch attacks).

(emphasis by me)

Seriously, you call that cheese? What's next, vest of legends?

Enleightened soul is bad. It doesn't advance your invocations and instead slows progression of your EB. But you get a shiny pari of wings, but that's about it. And if you want a warlock to give raw damage power, go for a glaive- or clawlock.

But this warlock will be focused or geared towards sneaking and scouting. using a whole different set of