Wizards and Sorcs don't get familiars?

[pwcsponson]

After playing this game for years, a friend and I just realized that the text never states that you get a familiar at level 1, only that you're able to summon one costing xyz. Is this common knowledge or do people do this all time? (Starting the game with a familiar).

[noob]

It is just that most of the time they say that in their background they took one and the gm is generous and give it for free because the familiar use the cuteness overload attack on the GM.

[Story]

It's only an issue if you're starting at level 1. Otherwise, just ask the DM if you have to count the 100gp against WBL. I think most people will just ignore the issue.

[ComaVision]

I waive it when I DM. It's just cruel to withhold their only class feature.

[Crake]

I waive it when I DM. It's just cruel to withhold their only class feature.

I guess you don't really count game breaking spells as a class feature then? :smalltongue:

[Tiri]

My DM waived the cost for my chicken becoming a familliar since I had already owned it for some years. The in-game reason was that the magical energy radiating from my body transformed it slowly. The out-of-game reason was probably because I had about 5 GP at the time. Not sure if he'll do the same when the duskblade takes Obtain Familliar, though.

[Curmudgeon]

I follow the rules, which means Wizards and Sorcerers summon their familiars after they've had a few encounters and raised the necessary funds. Having to wait for a fraction of a level is hardly debilitating.

[anti-ninja]

I believe I actually did the whole 100gp ritual thing in game not in backstory with my sorcerer ,me and the bard spent a whole week tricking people out of there money for it.shame the campaign ended shortly after that i liked that character.

[Coidzor]

I guess you don't really count game breaking spells as a class feature then? :smalltongue:

Spells are better than class features, so, yeah.

[marphod]

I generally wave it, although I've also found a lot of players consider their familiar more a liability and avoid summoning them. (For the record, I don't think I've ever killed, and rarely attacked, a familiar when running a game, so it isn't ME.)

Likewise, I don't usually keep as close track of finances to need to track how much it costs for Wizards (and Archivists) to scribe into their spell (prayer) books, daily food costs, etc. In exchange, I and my players generally ignore the pocket change that they earn along the way. If, when the PCs are 3rd level or so, the bard spends a couple nights singing for their supper, that's great. Make their perform roll; if they do well, they'll have enough cash for nice rooms, and to not worry about how they are eating and picking up nick-knacks, refreshing low-cost sundries, and the like. If the bard tanks the roll, and no one else finds a way to make pocket cash, they're sleeping in a stable, and are probably not going to want to think about what is in the stew that they are eating.

I don't find small-grain resource management to be a strength of DnD. Carrying capacity is restricted by weight, but not volume or actual physical capability. if I want to do small-scale resource management, I'd want to add limits to how much fits into a backpack, how many weapons they can wear on their belt, and how on earth they are carrying that many bulky items. Torchbearer (a non-d20 based game) does that sort of thing significantly better.

---

Regardless, you might be able to start with one, even if it isn't free -- if your Wiz or Sorc rolls well on their starting gold (11-12 on the 3d4), they might be able to afford to start with one, and not much else in the way of equipment.

[ExLibrisMortis]

Considering how much even a 1st-level wizard's spellbook is worth, I don't think the familiar is much of an issue money-wise. Class features like that should be available from the start. If you really want to 'balance' the 100 gp cost, give the other characters 100 gp extra to spend.

[Username.]

WBL considerations eat up service charges by RAW, which is why this is a non-issue when starting at level 2 or higher. Indeed, you can invoke this concept at level 1 by simply asserting that the character spent the money on the familiar, made some more money, then spent that money on starting gear. If the DM accepts that, or asserts it herself, then that's what happens. Indeed, if you insist on using d20's economic and logistics rules in their entirety and track minute financial transactions, you'll end up with blowouts and exploits in low levels as PCs quickly find skill optimizations that make more money than adventuring, granting wealth far beyond WBL. . . which can only be negated, by rules, by invoking WBL. . . which makes you ask why you bothered tracking trivial service costs in the first place.

On top of this, if the character concept requires a familiar, not granting it forbids you from playing that concept immediately. Given that one level-appropriate encounter gives you more than enough gold for the summoning, you could just as easily handwave such an encounter in your past as the DM or with the latter's permission. . . which works out the exact same way as just ignoring service costs.

[Telok]

Considering how stupid most caster players are about their familiars these days it amounts to half a feat for 100gp.

With some intelligence, planning, and maybe a few spells or a feat the familiar can be a useful resource. Scouting, breaking action economy, poisons, etc., we all know these are possible. But every single sorc/wiz I've seen in the past ten years playing this game either uses the familiar as +3 hp, +2 fort, or +2 init and then stuffs it in a corner of the character sheet and forgets about it.

I say half a feat because it's half of Improved Initative and +2 fort or +3 hp aren't things that are worth 1/7th of a character's lifetime feats.

[pwcsponson]

What prompted the query was that the DM started us all off at level 1, PHB, MM, DMG only. I just ended up roleplaying as a wizard in college, who took out a massive loan to finance his education and I never brought up the situation about whetehr or not a caster gets his familiar with the DM (the DM has allowed it before).

So I have a wizard currently out traveling the countryside as part of his sophomore year finals. He constantly worries that he'll never be able to pay off his crippling student loan debt and really start his life.

Edit: Its incredibly interesting to read the general consensus on the matter. It basically boils down to "give them the familiar because no one wants to finagle trivial crap" and "dont give them the familiar but it doesnt matter anyway - theyll just get it asap because its trivial"

[Sagetim]

The few times I've played a wizard I haven't bothered with a familiar. They're just too dangerous a liability to have, because when they die you get parts of your soul (XP) eaten. If I'm going to lose xp for something, it will damn well be something better than someone blowing up a cat or something when I get hit with an aoe. I may have a wizard have a pet cat, but I will never summon a familiar on a wizard or sorcerer.

As for if you want to have a familiar and what to do about the cash thing, as far as I remember it says that you can start with a familiar and only makes a mention on the price when it talks about replacing or summoning one after the game has started.

When it comes to familiars, the only time I've seen one be useful was when the party duskblade had a white wolf companion because of complete warrior. It was pretty useful for a while, but by high level that white wolf was getting near useless and he got permission to trade the feats out.

[Curmudgeon]

Spells are better than class features, so, yeah.
Spells is the name of the class feature.

[Elkad]

If you roll well on starting gold you can afford a familiar. I let my players have it, along with minimum starting cash, as an option as well (so wizards are getting it for about 45gp effectively).

Personally I take my familiar, or if I trade it away, pick it up at 3rd level (which is the better option if you plan to PrC out). And I typically take Improved Familiar as well. An Imp is just too damn useful. Even if you ignore optimization stuff, it's a flanker/bodyguard as a boar or spider (and a mount if you are small), a tiny flying archer spamming self-poisoned arrows, a invisible flying scout, a skill assist, gives access to Commune a couple levels before the Cleric gets it (if your party even has a Cleric), can help pull guard duty, and a million other things.

Is a cohort better? Sure.

But even a standard familiar has more uses than +2 on Fort saves. It can pour a potion down your throat if you are dying. Blindsense or Scent can save your life, and the empathic link is perfectly suited to transmitting "danger close!" when that invisible guy sneaks up on you. It has total cover in your pocket, so it's fairly safe if you need it to be. Out of your pocket in-combat (assuming you keep it in your square, or the square above you) it's sharing your Mage Armor, Shield, Mirror Images, etc, so it's not as vulnerable as people seem to think. Scouting it has amazing Hide checks and even if it doesn't fly, it typically has climb or swim. A rat with a climbing kit(+2) and a single +1 from elsewhere (another skillpoint at 10 int, or a single point of Dex will do it, or re-allocating it's 4 starting skill points) can take10 across most ceilings.

And then there is all the optimization stuff. Wand-wielding Ravens. Alter Self/poly/shapechange shenanigans.

I love them so much that I typically pick up the feat on partial casters as well. Bard, Duskblade, etc.

[Curmudgeon]

I had this specific cost in mind when I came up with the following house rule.
Favored classes under the normal rules help avoid multiclassing XP penalties, but provide nothing favorable for those class choices. These house rules accentuate positive qualities more than negatives.

If your first class level is in a favored class you get your choice of either a bonus [Racial] or [Regional] feat or 100 gp as a one-time benefit. (You need to meet the feat prerequisites as usual.) Favored Class: Any does not qualify for the bonus feat option (just the gold). A character with Favored Class: Fighter starting as a Fighter may instead select a [Fighter] feat at 1st level, and Favored Class: Monk starting as a Monk may select a fighting style and also get both regular level 1 Bonus Feat selections, without needing to satisfy prerequisites for any of those Monk feats.

Favored classes listed for your character receive 1 extra skill point each level (4 at 1st level). The only Favored Class: Any race which qualifies for this is Half-Elf. (Humans already get both a bonus feat and extra skill points; Half-Elves need a little extra love.)

Multiclassing XP penalties don't happen as long as you have at least 1 level in a favored class. Favored Class: Any does qualify for this exception, so Human characters never have multiclassing penalties.

(Favored Class: First one chosen works the same as Favored Class: Any.)

[marphod]

I had this specific cost in mind when I came up with the following house rule.
Favored classes under the normal rules help avoid multiclassing XP penalties, but provide nothing favorable for those class choices. These house rules accentuate positive qualities more than negatives.

If your first class level is in a favored class you get your choice of either a bonus [Racial] or [Regional] feat or 100 gp as a one-time benefit. (You need to meet the feat prerequisites as usual.) Favored Class: Any does not qualify for the bonus feat option (just the gold). A character with Favored Class: Fighter starting as a Fighter may instead select a [Fighter] feat at 1st level, and Favored Class: Monk starting as a Monk may select a fighting style and also get both regular level 1 Bonus Feat selections, without needing to satisfy prerequisites for any of those Monk feats.

Favored classes listed for your character receive 1 extra skill point each level (4 at 1st level). The only Favored Class: Any race which qualifies for this is Half-Elf. (Humans already get both a bonus feat and extra skill points; Half-Elves need a little extra love.)

Multiclassing XP penalties don't happen as long as you have at least 1 level in a favored class. Favored Class: Any does qualify for this exception, so Human characters never have multiclassing penalties.

(Favored Class: First one chosen works the same as Favored Class: Any.)


Doesn't this VASTLY reduce the relative power of Humans vis-a-vis other Races? Regional and Racial feats often (but certainly not always) are less than idea, but if a non-human PC starts in their favored class and a human starts in the same class, the only difference is that human gets +100gp and a slightly better choice of bonus feats.

That a racial feature does not make.


What do you do for the human-likes that already get a bonus feat (Azurin, Elan, IIRC)? And what about races that have multiple favored classes? (Dragonborn, for instance; although I suspect you don't allow PCs to start as dragonborn)

[Curmudgeon]

Doesn't this VASTLY reduce the relative power of Humans vis-a-vis other Races?
No, I don't think so. Humans already get a bonus feat. They already get bonus skill points. The house rule lets them acquire a familiar immediately rather than having to wait, which is a nice boost for spellcasters. And now they automatically get an exception to all multiclassing XP penalties regardless of their class makeup.

[Hawkstar]

WBL considerations eat up service charges by RAW, which is why this is a non-issue when starting at level 2 or higher. Indeed, you can invoke this concept at level 1 by simply asserting that the character spent the money on the familiar, made some more money, then spent that money on starting gear. If the DM accepts that, or asserts it herself, then that's what happens. Indeed, if you insist on using d20's economic and logistics rules in their entirety and track minute financial transactions, you'll end up with blowouts and exploits in low levels as PCs quickly find skill optimizations that make more money than adventuring, granting wealth far beyond WBL. . . which can only be negated, by rules, by invoking WBL. . . which makes you ask why you bothered tracking trivial service costs in the first place.
The problem isn't Wealth exceeding level... it's Level not keeping up with wealth. PCs should be getting XP for making that much GP.

[Story]

No, I don't think so. Humans already get a bonus feat. They already get bonus skill points. The house rule lets them acquire a familiar immediately rather than having to wait, which is a nice boost for spellcasters. And now they automatically get an exception to all multiclassing XP penalties regardless of their class makeup.

Multiclassing penalties are almost never an issue in practice and the familiar cost is only an issue if you start at level 1 and don't trade it away. So humans get effectively nothing from your houserules.

[Curmudgeon]

Multiclassing penalties are almost never an issue in practice and the familiar cost is only an issue if you start at level 1 and don't trade it away. So humans get effectively nothing from your houserules.
Can you substantiate the bolded part?

[Felyndiira]

You mean they haven't traded the familiar away for Abrupt Jaunt or Metamagic Specialist :smalltongue:?

[Malimar]

I had this specific cost in mind when I came up with the following house rule.
Favored classes under the normal rules help avoid multiclassing XP penalties, but provide nothing favorable for those class choices. These house rules accentuate positive qualities more than negatives.

If your first class level is in a favored class you get your choice of either a bonus [Racial] or [Regional] feat or 100 gp as a one-time benefit. (You need to meet the feat prerequisites as usual.) Favored Class: Any does not qualify for the bonus feat option (just the gold). A character with Favored Class: Fighter starting as a Fighter may instead select a [Fighter] feat at 1st level, and Favored Class: Monk starting as a Monk may select a fighting style and also get both regular level 1 Bonus Feat selections, without needing to satisfy prerequisites for any of those Monk feats.

Favored classes listed for your character receive 1 extra skill point each level (4 at 1st level). The only Favored Class: Any race which qualifies for this is Half-Elf. (Humans already get both a bonus feat and extra skill points; Half-Elves need a little extra love.)

Multiclassing XP penalties don't happen as long as you have at least 1 level in a favored class. Favored Class: Any does qualify for this exception, so Human characters never have multiclassing penalties.

(Favored Class: First one chosen works the same as Favored Class: Any.)


This houserule intrigues me and I may implement some variation on it in my games. (My existing treatment of favored classes is kind of pointless.)

[marphod]

No, I don't think so. Humans already get a bonus feat. They already get bonus skill points. The house rule lets them acquire a familiar immediately rather than having to wait, which is a nice boost for spellcasters. And now they automatically get an exception to all multiclassing XP penalties regardless of their class makeup.

If the Human goes Wizard, they get a familiar. Other classes could be a few pieces of alchemical equipment, or tools, etc.

The question is, at 2nd level, what's the difference between a Human and another Race that decided not to play against type for their first levels?

The 2nd level Human Wizard has (2+int+1)*5 skill points. The 2nd level Elf Wizard has (2+int+1)*5 skill points.
The Human Wizard has 2 feats and scribe scroll. The Elf has 1 unrestricted feat, one regional or racial feat, and scribe scroll.
The Human has a familiar if they want, and some equipment. The Elf has a familiar if they want, and some equipment.
The Human has no Multiclass XP penalty. The Elf has no Multiclass XP penalty.
There might be a slight difference in purchased items and wealth, but that difference becomes increasingly irrelevant as time moves on.
Once the Characters move into Prestige Classes, the Human will again get +1 Skill Point per level; but early skill points are move valuable as they shape your early prestige class and feat selections. Meanwhile the Elf will always have their racial abilities.

This also discourages the RP opportunities of playing against type; a sunk cost fallacy, but I'm less likely to play a race in a non-preferred class as there appears to be a bigger power difference.