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bbugg
2007-05-02, 08:45 AM
I'm a beginner in the midst of creating a new character. I'm thinking a wizard specializing in fire magic - maybe an evoker?

Anyway, is there any way to change a spell from one type to the fire type? Can, say, shocking grasp be changed to fire grip or some such thing?

Person_Man
2007-05-02, 08:57 AM
The feat Energy Substitution (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/divineFeats.html).

FYI, Fire is the most common resistance/immunity in D&D. So you may run into problems if you specialize in fire spells. Be sure to have backup spells memorized, preferably Summons, Grease, Evard's Tentacles, or other battlefield control magic.

Glorfindel
2007-05-02, 08:59 AM
If you have Complete Arcane, look up the metamagic feat 'Energy Substitution'. It lets you change the energy damage type of a spell. IIRC, the spell will occupy a spell slot of the same level.

Furthermore, the archmage (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/prestigeClasses/archmage.htm) can choose to gain a special ability, Mastery of Elements. But you need an 8th-level spell slot for that ...

bbugg
2007-05-02, 08:59 AM
Yeah? Thanks!
How does that feat work? Where can I find it?
Edit: sniped - thanks Glorfindel

Ikkitosen
2007-05-02, 09:00 AM
Person Man's link.

bbugg
2007-05-02, 09:03 AM
I'm also thinking of taking Bloodline of Fire (forgotten realms regional feat) that gives me a bonus to fire spells (I think it's +2 caster levels). If I change a spell to do fire damage, does it then become a fire spell that gets the bonus?

Ikkitosen
2007-05-02, 09:05 AM
Oh yes indeed.

Glorfindel
2007-05-02, 09:06 AM
Person Man's link doesn't specifically mention it, but I think in Complete Arcane it is stated that it will become (in this case) a spell with the [Fire] descriptor.

Goff
2007-05-02, 09:09 AM
Y'see, when I'm DMing, I throw in scrolls of say ice-ball, acid-ball etc. instead of fireball and allow a sorcerer to choose which type of energy s/he develops a spell as. I just seems ridiculous to me that no sorcerer or wizard would ever have developed freezing hands or acid spray. However, I think RAW your best bet is energy substitution.

bbugg
2007-05-02, 09:12 AM
Excellent! Thanks!
Good point about fire being a common immunity... I'll have to have a backup. Though, I don't mind having weaknesses either - makes things more interesting to play and I don't think our DM will purposefully screw us.

Glorfindel
2007-05-02, 09:17 AM
Not a bad idea. But I have trouble with a Melf's Sonic Arrow which continues to deal damage after striking. Or a Chain Acid-ray.

Douglas
2007-05-02, 10:09 AM
If you really want to specialize in fire spells, the Elemental Savant PrC from Complete Arcane is perfect for that. Also, you can considerably reduce the impact of fire resistance/immunity by taking the Searing Spell metamagic feat from Sandstorm, also available about halfway down the page in this preview (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20050203a).

bbugg
2007-05-02, 10:33 AM
Ohhh... now that's fancy! Thanks Douglas!

Person_Man
2007-05-02, 10:35 AM
Bloodlines are a horrible idea for most builds. You give up spells in exchange for a few minor bonuses.

For example, access to 4th level spells (Dimension Door, Stone Skin, Greater Invisibility, Polymorph) is far more important and powerful than casting 3rd level spells at a +whatever bonus. So a 7th level Wizard is a lot better off then a 6th level Wizard with a Bloodline, even if the Bloodline Wizard casts Fire spells as a 7th level Wizard with whatever bonuses.

bbugg
2007-05-02, 10:36 AM
I'm starting to like this - the Unearthed Arcana Energy Affinity variant to Evokers give another +1 to caster level for a specific energy type. I assume that stacks with the +2 from the Bloodline of Fire.
Combine that with Energy Substitution and Searing Spell, I'm all set!
Burn baby burn...

Douglas
2007-05-02, 10:51 AM
Bloodlines are a horrible idea for most builds. You give up spells in exchange for a few minor bonuses.
I think you're thinking of the bloodlines variant (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/bloodlines.htm), which is not at all what the OP is referring to. Bloodline of Fire (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Bloodline_of_Fire,all) is a feat, not a variant that requires giving up levels for some bonuses.

bbugg
2007-05-02, 10:54 AM
Person_man - as far as I can tell, the Bloodline of Fire regional feat doesn't limit spells...
It adds +2 to CL for fire spells and +4 to savings throws vs. fire and that's it. I think.

Fourth Tempter
2007-05-02, 11:02 AM
Between your Bloodline of Fire and that Evoker (oh, how I shudder at the word) variant, you should keep in mind the efficacy of Scorching Ray. With a +3 bonus to your caster level, you will receive two rays at level 4, rather than at level 7 as is customary. Normally damage-inflicting spells are, well, rather prone to underperformance, but 8d6 at level 4 is hardly something to sneer at.

Oh, yes--do remember to aim for the face.

Fax Celestis
2007-05-02, 11:24 AM
If you're going to be using ray-spells as a primary damage source instead of AoEs, picking up Martial Stance: Assassin's Stance might help too, for an extra 2d6 Sneak Attack.

ShneekeyTheLost
2007-05-02, 11:29 AM
If you are going to be doing a lot of Ray shooting, I highly suggest Point Blank Shot then Precise Shot to keep from shooting your allies in the back in mass combat.

Dausuul
2007-05-02, 11:52 AM
If you really want to specialize in fire spells, the Elemental Savant PrC from Complete Arcane is perfect for that. Also, you can considerably reduce the impact of fire resistance/immunity by taking the Searing Spell metamagic feat from Sandstorm, also available about halfway down the page in this preview (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20050203a).

Anyone else find Searing Spell to be silly?

"My fire is SO HOT THAT IT BURNS FIRE ELEMENTALS WHO ARE MADE OF FIRE!"

Uh... yeah, whatever.

Person_Man
2007-05-02, 12:06 PM
Anyone else find Searing Spell to be silly?

"My fire is SO HOT THAT IT BURNS FIRE ELEMENTALS WHO ARE MADE OF FIRE!"

Uh... yeah, whatever.

Yeah. More importantly, it takes up a higher level slot. If a Wizard is fighting something that's immune to fire damage, he should just cast one of his spells that doesn't deal fire damage, rather then nerfing his spells.

Douglas
2007-05-02, 12:10 PM
Well, if you think of fire elementals as being held together by magic and the magic can only handle fire up to a certain temperature/energy level... Yes, it does seem a little silly, but it is possible to come up with explanations for "why" it works. What's really silly is that something like Shadow Body (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/shadowBody.htm) that only halves fire damage is completely unaffected by the feat despite being less powerful than the complete immunities that are affected.

the_tick_rules
2007-05-02, 01:02 PM
if your good or evil aligned feats from vile or exalted deeds has feats that turn half of your elemental damage into holy or evil damage, which bypasses elemental resistances. and energy substitution as mentioned above.

Fhaolan
2007-05-02, 03:20 PM
Y'see, when I'm DMing, I throw in scrolls of say ice-ball, acid-ball etc. instead of fireball and allow a sorcerer to choose which type of energy s/he develops a spell as. I just seems ridiculous to me that no sorcerer or wizard would ever have developed freezing hands or acid spray. However, I think RAW your best bet is energy substitution.

I've always looked at it as a shortcut issue. If you spend the time in spell research to create a new version of the spell as a different energy type, or find a scroll by someone else who's done that research, everything's good. If however, you don't spend the research time and use the feat, you're taking a shortcut that costs x amount of levels.

Dhavaer
2007-05-02, 08:57 PM
Ooh, ooh! Get Kelgore's Firebolt. First level, 1d6 damage/level. You'll be doing 4d6 at first level, enough to oneshot a white wyrmling. I doubt your DM would throw one at you, though.

Construct
2007-05-04, 01:37 AM
FYI, Fire is the most common resistance/immunity in D&D. So you may run into problems if you specialize in fire spells.

Ah, but that's the beauty of the Energy Substitution metamagic feats; your spellbook can be chock full of Fire-type spells for that thematic zing but when the DM announces that the next umpteen sessions will take place on the Plane of Fire you can swallow your pride and prepare them as Cold-type (or whatever) instead for no increase in spell slot. Alternatively, you can just learn spells regardless of energy type and prepare them with Energy Substitution (Fire) by default.

Toliudar
2007-05-04, 09:58 AM
Construct, I think that the 3.0 version of energy substitution did what you describe. In 3.5, we've lost the "or whatever" option, and you have to pre-determine which energy you can substitute to when you pick the feat.

[Mourns passing of his now-crappy energy sorcerer build.]

Person_Man
2007-05-04, 11:56 AM
Ah, but that's the beauty of the Energy Substitution metamagic feats; your spellbook can be chock full of Fire-type spells for that thematic zing but when the DM announces that the next umpteen sessions will take place on the Plane of Fire you can swallow your pride and prepare them as Cold-type (or whatever) instead for no increase in spell slot. Alternatively, you can just learn spells regardless of energy type and prepare them with Energy Substitution (Fire) by default.

Perhaps. But far more commonly, your DM will just mix in fire resistant/immune creatures into your normal encounters. There are literally dozens of them, and they include some very common D&D foes (dragons, fire elementals, demons, angels, Fire subtype, etc). The big problem with Energy Substitution is that Wizards have to memorize the fire version of the spell. So if you load up all of your slots with fire spells, and then your DM mixes in fire resistant/immune enemies, you're screwed.

Also, if your DM announces the next X sessions will be on the elemental plane of fire, or the minions of the fire lord, or whatever, your build is at a big disadvantage because you've invested so many feats into Energy Substitution, Searing Spell, Bloodline of Fire, etc.

It's a much better tactic for Sorcerers, in my opinion. And it generally works better with sonic or acid instead of fire.

Construct
2007-05-05, 12:11 AM
Toliudar: Ah, that's what I meant. =P
/me takes vocabulary out back and re-edumacates it.

Person_Man: Between the crowd-control, save-or-sucks, ablative meat shields other party members, scrolls, wands and an emergency non-Fire direct-damage or two, a fire-themed wizard should get by just fine and need only a feat or two to stay in character. I'll certainly grant that there are less readily-neutered energy specialisations but short of a deliciously camp acid-loving sorcerer in touch with his black dragon heritage none seem as gratifying to roleplay. Did I say that out loud?
"Buuuuurn, my pretties...