Lawful bard + Oratory skill synergy

[SolkaTruesilver]

I was thinking of playing a bard next, however, I do not like the idea of having to sing at peoples (as Elan said, it's pretty silly). Or to play a musical instrument...

I really love the "Perform : Oratory" option, where I have to make a speech to inspire/order peoples around. It's more in my line (rather than sing, I don't like the idea of being the target of thrown dices. d4s are nasty)

and the idea stroke me: what about being a Politician? Diplomacy, Bluff and Sense Motive are the same needed skills..

However, the anti-lawful alignement required doesn't really fit for a politician. I would like to know if there is any really GOOD reason to refuse a Lawful bard?

Except, off course, the Paladin/Bard combo, two classes who uses Charisma..

If I promise I will NOT multi-class into the Paladin or a Monk, is it okay to make a lawful bard? Should I change some of the spells in the spell list?

So.. Politician = Lawful Bard, what about it?



and I would like to know. If my Perform skill is "Oratory" (making speeches), can I get bonuses to Diplomacy checks made to influence a crowd? Or just someone, if I have the opportunity to make a good speech to influence him?

[Lord Iames Osari]

I always let bards be lawful, and I would allow Perform (oratory) to synergize with Diplomacy. It's ultimately a DM call, though.

[EvilElitest]

Hmmmmmmm, paladin bard sounds interesting
from,
EE

[Triaxx]

Smite, Smite, Smite the evil.

[mikeejimbo]

You could go the other route. That is, change the Politician's Alignment. I don't see that they have to be Lawful, just non-Chaotic. A Neutral Politician, I think, would be fitting.

[Amphimir Míriel]

I think Politicians are not lawful, as a rule (they tend to abuse and bend laws to their own benefit, or even draft laws that benefit themselves or their contributors)

-

Now seriously, I believe oratory is completely valid as a bardic music substitute... For example, see the role of Dilios (played by David Wenham) in the movie 300... Consider all of his narrator monologue along the movie as an extended "Inspire Courage" effort on the soldiers on the last scene of the movie.

Bardic music is not "bluff, bluff, bluff the stupid ogre!"... it should be something much more significative!

[Minchandre]

I think Politicians are not lawful, as a rule (they tend to abuse and bend laws to their own benefit, or even draft laws that benefit themselves or their contributors)



That would actually be the very definition of Lawful Evil.

[Amphimir Míriel]

That would actually be the very definition of Lawful Evil.

True enough

[Triaxx]

Sorry.

{voice} Ask not what evil can smite you, but what evil you can smite. {/voice}

[Nocte]

The oratory-diplomacy synergy makes sense, but, diplomacy allready have 3 synergies, bluff, knowledge(nobility and royalty), and sense motive. So with one more there will be +8 bonus, +12 with thet feat that makes synergies +3.

A politician in game terms, may be an aristocrat.

There is a bard in eberron, who uses perform oratory.

[SolkaTruesilver]

I don't like the idea that Politicians are only Aristocrats. After all, Aristocrats are more a social standing than any job. Why couldn't the common people become a politician?

And the basic idea wasn't to make a politician out of a bard. I just wanted a lawful bard, and tought up the idea of politician for the flavor..

[Townopolis]

I'd allow the synergy from perform: oratory, but remove the synergy from Knowledge: nobility and royalty. Which, since Knowledge is a non-essential skill for you, ends up as a bonus anyways.

[Amphimir Míriel]

After all, Aristocrats are more a social standing than any job. Why couldn't the common people become a politician?


At the risk of skirting a bit too near the "real politics" banned area, you could argue that modern day politicians are some sort of contemporary nobility.

Heck, some writers even speak of "the political class" as a whole...

Also, regarding "the common people becoming a politician" when was the last time you actually saw that? These days, being rich is an actual requirement for running for office.

Now, back to D&D... yes, in fantasy literature there are a lot of examples of "common guys" becoming rulers (Conan comes to mind)... but politicians? dunno

[ocato]

I'll have to agree with the sentiment that politicians aren't necessary Lawful. Many politicians act outside the law and hold it to very little regard. A lawful evil character may do what he wants evily within the law, but a Chaotic character would use a good public face as a mask with which to hide his constant subverting, ignoring, or side-stepping of laws, traditions, and good clean fun.

[mabriss lethe]

Other ways to play a "bard"

The Cultist:
Keep everything the same as the base bard in the SRD, except alter the alignment restriction to "Any non-good"

Now it's a simple matter to change the flavor to fit the new idea of the "bard" in question. Ditch the silly musical instruments and singing songs. replace them with implements of ritual magic, daggers, sigils, creepy robes, you get the idea. Rename all their abilities to reflect the new flavor as well, Bardic music, becomes "Litany of Shadows" mechanically identical, but instead of singing/playing to create a magical effect, the cultist calls upon the names of dead gods while chanting sonorously in inhuman languages (thank you lovecraft...) With DM approval you could swap the operative skill from "Perform" to "spellcraft". Likewise, replace "Bardic Knowledge" with "Forbidden Lore."

Optionally, you could swap the "summon monster" spells on the bard list to "summon undead" from the Libris Mortis book. gives'em a creepier feel without upsetting game balance all that much.

Theoretically, you could do this sort of swap job for any of the alignments as long as you pick an appropriate flavor for it.

[SolkaTruesilver]

Also, regarding "the common people becoming a politician" when was the last time you actually saw that? These days, being rich is an actual requirement for running for office.


Well, I don't want to sound political, but it's not because it's the case in the U.S. that it is the case everywhere. And this country doesn't get the monopoly on democracy.

Common people in Canada can get elected, and run for offices. They don't have to be peticulary wealthy to manage it.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

All you have to be is be the leader of the Leading Party. and anyone can do that. The only reason why most politician leaders are medium rich to rich, is that to become leader of the party you'' have to pay out of your own pocket for advertisemnt.

[SolkaTruesilver]

Well, people can contribute to your campaign. And I think there are some really harsh limitation about the way you can use your own money in the Canadian's political system (and even harsher in Quebecker's political system).

and you can run for office (office being a ministry) while not going for the top position.


But, let's come back to the Politician thing. Warhammer Fantasy Role Play has the exact kind of "Career" for this, it's called the Demagogue. The man who play on the crowd with as much ease as a pianist plays his melody. He can make them angry, happy, or fearful with the right speech.

A good Tribun, in short :smallbiggrin:

[Vhaidara]

Politicians, lke lawyers, are, by definition, non-lawful. And USUALLY evil.

[Rift_Wolf]

A truly great politician would probably be Neutral. Lawful; nothing gets done, Chaotic; too much happens all at once.