Eldritch Claws... with claws

[Nightshade7983]

I am playing a Half-Fiend Warlock, and as a half fiend already have natural claws. I want to get the Eldritch Claws feat (Dragon 358). I have read that unarmed strike can be combined with Eldritch Claws, US being the primary and the claws being secondary. How would this work with pre-existing claws? IE, for a full round attack using the base claws as primary, free action to activate Eldritch Claws and use them as secondary attacks? Seems like this MIGHT work as they could be considered separate weapons. My DM is pretty lax as long as there are no specific RAW to contradict this, and I cannot seem to find any other posts about this combination. I do understand the assumption though that US can be stretched to cover feet, knees, elbows, etc, which is why I am unsure about this.

[Taveena]

I'm playing a mess of a build that involves Girallon Arms, Eldritch Claws, Black Blood Cultist, and the Feral template.

I don't think there are actually any hard limits, because the designers of D&D assumed players wouldn't really be able to get natural attacks. The ruling I normally see is that you are allowed one claw attack per arm, and you can choose which claw attack to use if you've got a bunch of them.

Rules Compendium says a creature can make 'one attack per claw or tentacle', implying that by RAW, a Totemist with Girallon Arms (Totem Bind), Dragon Claws, and Blood Talons (Totem Bind) does, in fact, gain 8 claw attacks per round.

[thethird]

You want the feat beaststrike from dragon magazine. Look for a melee warlock handbook it will be pointed out there.

[Urpriest]

I am playing a Half-Fiend Warlock, and as a half fiend already have natural claws. I want to get the Eldritch Claws feat (Dragon 358). I have read that unarmed strike can be combined with Eldritch Claws, US being the primary and the claws being secondary. How would this work with pre-existing claws? IE, for a full round attack using the base claws as primary, free action to activate Eldritch Claws and use them as secondary attacks? Seems like this MIGHT work as they could be considered separate weapons. My DM is pretty lax as long as there are no specific RAW to contradict this, and I cannot seem to find any other posts about this combination. I do understand the assumption though that US can be stretched to cover feet, knees, elbows, etc, which is why I am unsure about this.

That's not how it works. First, claws on the same limb tend to replace claws on that limb. Second, you're still leaving out your Unarmed Strikes. Remember, Unarmed Strike and Claw are different weapons.

[Taveena]

Where are the rules on claws being exclusive from one another? Not sayin' there aren't any! I just... haven't been able to find 'em.

[Nightshade7983]

That's not how it works. First, claws on the same limb tend to replace claws on that limb. Second, you're still leaving out your Unarmed Strikes. Remember, Unarmed Strike and Claw are different weapons.

That would tend to make sense for the most part, if it weren't for the ability to free-action the eldritch claws, in essence completely changing the weapon itself, which is why I thought it might fly. I was trying to go for a path that didn't require either dipping or burning a feat on improved unarmed strike, though the beast strike idea does seem to be the best idea for maximizing damage. Currently looking into a way to get Improved Unarmed Strike though a level dip, just need to find one for a non-lawful character.

[Taveena]

Chaos Martial Monk (Dragon #335 + #310) or Battle Dancer (Dragon Compendium) are both Chaotic.
Chaos Martial Monk gets you a bonus fighter feat, while Battle Dancer gets you the likely more useful Charisma to AC.

[Nightshade7983]

Chaos Martial Monk (Dragon #335 + #310) or Battle Dancer (Dragon Compendium) are both Chaotic.
Chaos Martial Monk gets you a bonus fighter feat, while Battle Dancer gets you the likely more useful Charisma to AC.

Mmmm probably should have been more specific, and this part is likely to bite me in the rear..... I need to find something that will work for a NE character. CE is the only alignment not allowed in the campaign, though I have been possibly playing her up more as CN.... will have to check with DM on that. Though..... Chaos Martial monk? Is that a one level dip for both a fighter bonus AND unarmed strike? Cause that could net me both Beaststrike and IAS in one dip if so...... *trundles off to check it out*

[Taveena]

Mmmm probably should have been more specific, and this part is likely to bite me in the rear..... I need to find something that will work for a NE character. CE is the only alignment not allowed in the campaign, though I have been possibly playing her up more as CN.... will have to check with DM on that. Though..... Chaos Martial monk? Is that a one level dip for both a fighter bonus AND unarmed strike? Cause that could net me both Beaststrike and IAS in one dip if so...... *trundles off to check it out*

I don't believe Beast Strike is a Fighter Bonus Feat. Anyway, you don't lose Monk Class features for changing alignment, so take a level of Chaos Monk/Battle Dancer in your backstory. Sometime before that, you switched to NE.

Chaos Monk is Dragon #335, Martial Monk is Dragon #310. They're compatible, so you can do both. Interestingly, Beast Strike is only incompatible with Flurry of Blows - Flailing Strike, Decisive Strike, and other FoB replacements work.

Another option, if you'd rather not have that, is a level of City Brawler Barbarian (Dragon #349). It's, shockingly, a Barbarian ACF which trades out some proficiencies for Improved Unarmed Strike, and the benefits of TWF while unarmed. As it's Barbarian, it only requires 'Any Nonlawful', and hey - it's also compatible with Spirit Lion Totem (for Pounce) and Whirling Frenzy (for an extra terrifying Beast Strike UAS per round, in addition to a sizable strength bonus.)

[Nightshade7983]

I don't believe Beast Strike is a Fighter Bonus Feat. Anyway, you don't lose Monk Class features for changing alignment, so take a level of Chaos Monk/Battle Dancer in your backstory. Sometime before that, you switched to NE.

Chaos Monk is Dragon #335, Martial Monk is Dragon #310. They're compatible, so you can do both. Interestingly, Beast Strike is only incompatible with Flurry of Blows - Flailing Strike, Decisive Strike, and other FoB replacements work.

Another option, if you'd rather not have that, is a level of City Brawler Barbarian (Dragon #349). It's, shockingly, a Barbarian ACF which trades out some proficiencies for Improved Unarmed Strike, and the benefits of TWF while unarmed. As it's Barbarian, it only requires 'Any Nonlawful', and hey - it's also compatible with Spirit Lion Totem (for Pounce) and Whirling Frenzy (for an extra terrifying Beast Strike UAS per round, in addition to a sizable strength bonus.)

Sweet thing is according to Dragon 355 pg 76 beast strike IS a fighter bonus feat, for extra yay! =). Also, no backstory option for this, as the characters are already started, an event in game allowed for a semi-gestalt into one other classes abilities, but we got it at level 4.

[ExLibrisMortis]

Psychic warrior x with Monastic Training (psychic warrior) and Tashalatora. Flurry of Blows and unarmed damage as a monk x, nice manifesting on top, 5 fighter/psionic bonus feats. Perhaps you can enter Cerebremancer and get both manifesting and invocations, though in that case I'd go psion, and Tashalatora becomes less attractive.

[Nightshade7983]

Psychic warrior x with Monastic Training (psychic warrior) and Tashalatora. Flurry of Blows and unarmed damage as a monk x, nice manifesting on top, 5 fighter/psionic bonus feats. Perhaps you can enter Cerebremancer and get both manifesting and invocations, though in that case I'd go psion, and Tashalatora becomes less attractive.

Whooo, just personal preference not going into Psionic anything. Still trying to wrap my head around all of that. I think what I am going to do though is just take a dip into fighter for the unarmed strike bonus feat and a BAB, since I just looked into it and would not have the required BAB to get beast strike yet ANYWAY and fighter is compatible with NE. Probably not the optimal way to do it, but sometimes looking into ALL the class options makes my head swim =/ Then I can get Beast strike at my next level allowed feat I suppose. **Nope, need to take 2 level dip into fighter to get the BAB by level 6, which would net me the second feat as well anyway! Yippee.