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Yvian
2007-05-02, 11:17 AM
The posts says about it all. I need help in finding a good Tiny or diminutive PC Class. BOED has two, Musteval and Fladrin, but these have level adjustments of +5. I am hoping to find somethig a bit lower than that.

Thanks for your help.

Bagera
2007-05-02, 03:37 PM
Try an awakened animal.

Jack_Simth
2007-05-02, 04:55 PM
MM:
a Grig is Tiny, LA +3.

Reduce Person and Permanency (from the same 9th level Wizard) costs 3,040 gp to hire (90 gp for the Reduce Person at caster level 9, 450 for a 5th level Permanency spell at caster level 9, 2,500 gp for the 500 xp - and still within the "Commonly Available" threshold for spells, although only just). Combine with a small LA +0 race (Kobold, Gnome, Halfling, and so on), and you're down to Tiny. It's dispellable, though.

Arbitrarity
2007-05-02, 05:14 PM
Boost the CL to 20, and it costs 3700, can't be dispelled by anything short of a cleric on steroids, or some *** UMD'ing a bead of karma.

Or epic. But we don't say that.

True about the costs.

Remember, permanency says it can't be dispelled unless the CL of the dispeller is greater than the CL of the caster (at the time of casting).

Jack_Simth
2007-05-02, 05:27 PM
Boost the CL to 20, and it costs 3700, can't be dispelled by anything short of a cleric on steroids, or some *** UMD'ing a bead of karma.

Or epic. But we don't say that.

Actually, a Caster Level 20 effect (Dispel DC 31) will be Dispeled by a caster level 11 Greater Dispel Magic 5% of the time.

The possible issue with a caster level 20 Permanency and Reduce Person, though, is finding the caster - the equipment section quite explicitly mentions that if the extras bring the spell in at over 3,000 gp market, it's not commonly available. At caster level 20, the Reduce Person isn't so bad (200 gp), but the Permanency becomes 500*5 (xp)+50*20=3,500 gp - which is over the commonly available cap.

Mewtarthio
2007-05-02, 07:55 PM
Try the new and improved Variant Kobold (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060420a) designed to actually be worth LA +0. It gets the "Slight Build" quality, which essentially makes it a Tiny creature whenever being Tiny would benefit it.

the_tick_rules
2007-05-02, 08:20 PM
A.K.A the Nichole Richie build lol.

Khantalas
2007-05-02, 08:58 PM
Nitpicking, yes, but...

Tiny class? How does that work?

Yvian
2007-05-02, 09:25 PM
A.K.A the Nichole Richie build lol.

See, I would call that the Karen Carpenter build.

I am not sure about the awakend animal idea, I would like opposable thumbs. That would leave me with what - a monkey?

Reduce person is out. It's a nice idea but that is going to be outside the paramaters probably. We will be starting out at 3rd level, which kinds of knocks out the Grig as well.

I like the idea of the Kobold. But it is tiny for opposed skill checks and a few other things. Not like for AC, mounts, and such things - which is where my mind is.

Quirinus_Obsidian
2007-05-02, 11:04 PM
I prefer the Pixie over the Grig though. That is, the pixie without Irresistable Dance. so NOT worth the extra +2 LA when she can take it laters on anyway.

Fax Celestis
2007-05-02, 11:07 PM
See, I would call that the Karen Carpenter build.

I am not sure about the awakend animal idea, I would like opposable thumbs. That would leave me with what - a monkey?

Squirrels have opposable thumbs. Try an awakened Skiurid.

Mewtarthio
2007-05-02, 11:50 PM
I like the idea of the Kobold. But it is tiny for opposed skill checks and a few other things. Not like for AC, mounts, and such things - which is where my mind is.




Slight Build: The physical stature of kobolds lets them function in many ways as if they were one size category smaller. Whenever a kobold is subject to a size modifier or special size modifier for an opposed check (such as Hide), the kobold is treated as one size smaller if doing so is advantageous to the character. A kobold is also considered to be one size smaller when "squeezing" through a restrictive space. A kobold can use weapons designed for a creature one size smaller without penalty. However, the space and reach of a kobold remain those of a creature of their actual size. The benefits of this racial trait stack with the effects of powers, abilities, and spells that change the subject's size category.

It's not at all unreasonable to assume this applies to AC, which does indeed carry a size modifier. It's only a slight stretch to imagine this works on mount choice, though others might disallow it. Additionally, Tiny creatures normally have a reach of 0, meaning they must enter an opponent's square (provoking an AoO) to attack, cannot flank, and cannot make attacks of opportunity. A variant kobold has none of these downsides.

I suppose the question is: What, exactly, are you using a Tiny character for?