Special attack when using a ToB maneuver?

[rrwoods]

Specifically, can you use a trip attack when a Tome of Battle maneuver asks you to "make a melee attack"?

[Crake]

Specifically, can you use a trip attack when a Tome of Battle maneuver asks you to "make a melee attack"?

No. A trip attack is a separate option from a maneuver, you cannot do both.

Edit: It is worth noting though that some maneuvers give you additional attacks (sometimes specifically with weapons you are wielding). You can use these additional attacks to make trip attacks if so desired, in the case of attacking specifically with wielded weapons, you would need to have a weapon capable of being used to trip, such as a flail, spiked chain, kama, etc.

[Andezzar]

No. A trip attack is a separate option from a maneuver, you cannot do both.

Edit: It is worth noting though that some maneuvers give you additional attacks (sometimes specifically with weapons you are wielding). You can use these additional attacks to make trip attacks if so desired, in the case of attacking specifically with wielded weapons, you would need to have a weapon capable of being used to trip, such as a flail, spiked chain, kama, etc.I disagree. Many maneuvers have a phrase like "as part of this maneuver, you make a melee attack" and the SRD says
You can try to trip an opponent as an unarmed melee attack.
So the trip attempt is a melee attack and you can use it in place of another melee attack. However many maneuvers won't help much in this case as extra damage is only applied if the action does damage in the first place. Usually tripping does not do any damage, but Improved trip would work around that issue.

If the maneuver descriptions said "as part of this maneuver, you make a normal melee attack", tripping would not work as tripping is not a normal melee attack.

[Extra Anchovies]

Usually tripping does not do any damage, but Improved trip would work around that issue.

No it wouldn't. Improved Trip doesn't make your trip attempts deal damage. It gives you a free attack after you trip, but your trip attempts still deal zero damage; the free attack is what's dealing the damage. Making the free attack is a nonaction that occurs immediately after the trip attempt, so you can't use martial strikes with the free attacks from trips. They'd still work with boosts, though.

[Crake]

I disagree. Many maneuvers have a phrase like "as part of this maneuver, you make a melee attack" and the SRD says
So the trip attempt is a melee attack and you can use it in place of another melee attack. However many maneuvers won't help much in this case as extra damage is only applied if the action does damage in the first place. Usually tripping does not do any damage, but Improved trip would work around that issue.

If the maneuver descriptions said "as part of this maneuver, you make a normal melee attack", tripping would not work as tripping is not a normal melee attack.

Ok, i suppose you're right, though as Extra Anchovies pointed out, improved trip does not actually make your trip attack deal damage, and I believe most martial maneuvers require you actually deal damage to have an effect. As such, any maneuver used in this way would be for the most part wasted, unless the maneuver did something else, such as steel wind to trip two opponents after having moved.

Edit: Easy peasy, page 43 of tome of battle, second paragraph


In addition, you cannot combine special attacks such as sunder or bull rush with strikes, even if you have feats that make such special attacks more potent.

So the answer remains no.

[OldTrees1]

However if Trip is all you wanted, you could always take Improved Trip + Knock-down. Then use your damaging melee attack from your strike to gain a free trip attack to gain another melee attack(not augmented by your strike).

[Segev]

However if Trip is all you wanted, you could always take Improved Trip + Knock-down. Then use your damaging melee attack from your strike to gain a free trip attack to gain another melee attack(not augmented by your strike).

Is there a 3.5 update to knock-down, or is the Sword and Fist version the most recent? (I understand that, without an update, it's 3.5-legal as-is in 3.0 material, but I thought I'd check.)

[Sliver]

S&F has an errata:


Use of this feat cannot be combined with Improved Trip to generate an extra attack, and successful use of this feat does not grant an extra attack through the Cleave or Great Cleave feats.
Insert may into “you may make a trip attack as a free action.”
After “whenever you deal 10 or more points of damage to your opponent in melee” insert: with a single attack

Deities and Demigods has reprinted the feat, but it lacks that bit of text, so...

[Segev]

Ah, rats. It doesn't actually let you double your attacks per round.

[Curmudgeon]

Is there a 3.5 update to knock-down, or is the Sword and Fist version the most recent? (I understand that, without an update, it's 3.5-legal as-is in 3.0 material, but I thought I'd check.)
The most recent version of Knock-Down is actually in the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineAbilitiesFeats.htm#knockDown). It's from Deities and Demigods after the 3.5 update for that book, with some SRD-specific changes.

[Segev]

Oh-ho. Interesting.

[rrwoods]

Thanks for the replies, folks. I was just wondering, as in another thread I had seen someone mention that you can perform a special attack "any time you would make an attack", and I was unaware that Tome of Battle specifically forbids using a special attack in conjunction with a strike.