Sizes for Monk's Unarmed Strike

[Vincent Dragon]

I can only find damage progression for Small, Medium and Large sizes:

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/monk.htm#tableTheMonk
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/monk.htm#tableSmallorLargeMonkUnarmedDamage

But what about damage progression for Fine, Diminutive, Tiny, Huge, Gargantuan, Colossal and Colossal+?

[Morcleon]

Those are the only official ones. You could extrapolate table for other creature sizes using the weapon size chart (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/weapons.htm#weaponSize) if you needed.

[ShaneMRoth]

Those are the only official ones. You could extrapolate table for other creature sizes using the weapon size chart (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/weapons.htm#weaponSize) if you needed.

I concur with this member.

Is the OP contemplating perhaps an Attack on Titan style campaign?

[Curmudgeon]

But what about damage progression for Fine, Diminutive, Tiny, Huge, Gargantuan, Colossal and Colossal+?
There is no "Colossal+" size (see page 99 of Draconomicon). That's only an effective size for Advanced Dragons, and the increased damage is limited to bite, claws, wings, tail slap, crush, and tail sweep. You can get up to effective Colossal size for your unarmed damage with Greater Mighty Wallop, and Improved Natural Attack (unarmed strike) will give you one more effective size boost after that, but it's not "Colossal+".

[ShaneMRoth]

There is no "Colossal+" size (see page 99 of Draconomicon). That's only an effective size for Advanced Dragons, and the increased damage is limited to bite, claws, wings, tail slap, crush, and tail sweep. You can get up to effective Colossal size for your unarmed damage with Greater Mighty Wallop, and Improved Natural Attack (unarmed strike) will give you one more effective size boost after that, but it's not "Colossal+".

I wonder if Dragons would practice a martial art style like Crouching Tiger, Hidden Kobold?

[Vincent Dragon]

Those are the only official ones. You could extrapolate table for other creature sizes using the weapon size chart (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/weapons.htm#weaponSize) if you needed.

You sure there's nothing else official? :smallfrown:

Anyway, at the moment i'm using this

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsterFeats.htm#improvedNaturalAttack

and Arms & Equipment Guide 3.0 table (page 4) to extrapolate damage size progression.


I concur with this member.

Is the OP contemplating perhaps an Attack on Titan style campaign?

Actually i'll make a Dracolich Colossal+ Monk 20 for a friend :mitd:


There is no "Colossal+" size (see page 99 of Draconomicon). That's only an effective size for Advanced Dragons, and the increased damage is limited to bite, claws, wings, tail slap, crush, and tail sweep. You can get up to effective Colossal size for your unarmed damage with Greater Mighty Wallop, and Improved Natural Attack (unarmed strike) will give you one more effective size boost after that, but it's not "Colossal+".

Yeah i know it's only for dragons, but that's exactly my goal, and there's nothing on the text saying the increased damage is limited to "bite, claws, etc". The text says:

"Altough there is no size category larger than Colossal, the largest advanced dragons have a greater reach and deal more damage with their attacks than other Colossal dragons."

It refers to "attacks" in a general sensus.

[Curmudgeon]

... there's nothing on the text saying the increased damage is limited to "bite, claws, etc". The text says:

"Altough there is no size category larger than Colossal, the largest advanced dragons have a greater reach and deal more damage with their attacks than other Colossal dragons."

It refers to "attacks" in a general sensus.
The very next paragraph (after the page break) specifies exactly what Colossal+ damage entails.

[Vincent Dragon]

The very next paragraph (after the page break) specifies exactly what Colossal+ damage entails.

The next paragraph doesn't say that only those dragon's natural weapons are affected by Colossal+

There's a difference between showing only one thing as affected and saying only one thing is affected.

[Curmudgeon]

The next paragraph doesn't say that only those dragon's natural weapons are affected by Colossal+

There's a difference between showing only one thing as affected and saying only one thing is affected.
OK, then, what's the formula for Colossal+ unarmed damage? That's not an actual size, and the only damages given for this effective size are the specific dragon natural attacks listed.

[Vincent Dragon]

OK, then, what's the formula for Colossal+ unarmed damage?

That's exactly why i created this thread to find out :smalltongue:

But i get what you're saying, the problem in this case is that there's no such formula for other sizes besides Small, Medium and Large. Yeah it is RAW i get it, but seems weird to me that a Huge/Gargantuan/Colossal Monk would do the same damage of a Large Monk just because there's no official table for their damage.

[Curmudgeon]

But i get what you're saying, the problem in this case is that there's no such formula for other sizes besides Small, Medium and Large.
There is a formula if you're getting effective size increases from Greater Mighty Wallop (Races of the Dragon, page 115): you use DMG Table 2–2: Increasing Damage by Weapon Size, which Morcleon linked to here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/weapons.htm#weaponSize).

[Vincent Dragon]

There is a formula if you're getting effective size increases from Greater Mighty Wallop (Races of the Dragon, page 115): you use DMG Table 2–2: Increasing Damage by Weapon Size, which Morcleon linked to here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/weapons.htm#weaponSize).

This table doesn't list Monk's Unarmed Damage.

[emeraldstreak]

There's certain math to these increases. Find an extrapolation (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Ultimate_Monk_(3.5e_Optimized_Character_Build)/Highlights) in the second table.

On a sidenote, a dragon suppressing the race requirement of the ectoplasmic fist quori shard can get seven increases that will stack 1) above its size and 2) together with INA and chakra.

[Curmudgeon]

This table doesn't list Monk's Unarmed Damage.
No, and it doesn't list every other weapon in existence, either. But you can use the online table if you just find the unarmed damage for your Monk, like 2d8 at levels 16-19; then just search for that value (2d8) and you'll find it at the Huge bastard sword. If you increment 3 sizes you'll get 6d8. You can instead go to page 28 of Dungeon Master's Guide, or Arms and Equipment Guide has a larger table on page 4 if you find that more convenient.

[Vincent Dragon]

There's certain math to these increases. Find an extrapolation (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Ultimate_Monk_(3.5e_Optimized_Character_Build)/Highlights) in the second table.

On a sidenote, a dragon suppressing the race requirement of the ectoplasmic fist quori shard can get seven increases that will stack 1) above its size and 2) together with INA and chakra.

Thanks! I'm happy that i found the same results this table shows with an extrapolation of the Improved Natural Attack feat, so i guess i'm extrapolating it right :smalltongue:

But could you explain to me WTF is this dragon? :mitd:


No, and it doesn't list every other weapon in existence, either.

The same way Colossal+ doesn't list every kind of natural weapon/unarmed damage progression, but still you insisted that if it doesn't list then it doesn't exist :smalltongue:

Besides that i'm already using the Arms & Equipment's page 4 table like i said on one of my previous posts (my first post after creating this thread). Thanks anyway because i was not aware of the DMG table, so you just gave me new information :smallbiggrin:

[emeraldstreak]

Thanks! I'm happy that i found the same results this table shows with an extrapolation of the Improved Natural Attack feat, so i guess i'm extrapolating it right :smalltongue:

But could you explain to me WTF is this dragon? :mitd:



Kalashtar can embed themselves with quori shards. The ectoplasmic fist one adds the equivalent of a size category increase to unarmed damage, and one can be embedded per limb.

However, powers that suppress racial requirements (Use Magic/Psionic Device, Artificer powers, etc) presumably can suppress the Kalashtar limitation, and then anyone can embed ectoplasmic fists. Thing is, dragons (and others) have more than four limbs.

[Bountious]

I just worked out the (rough) conversion for larger and smaller monks, comparing the monk damage progression to the weapon damage progression, in order to fuse the two. I compared the relations between damage progression for the monk to those for weapons, trying to stay closer to the Monk.

Fine-Colossal
1, 1d2, 1d3, 1d4, 1d6, 1d8, 2d6, 3d6, 4d6
1d2, 1d3, 1d4, 1d6, 1d8, 2d6, 3d6, 6d4, 6d6
1d3, 1d4, 1d6, 1d8, 1d10, 2d8, 3d8, 4d8, 6d8
1d4, 1d6, 1d8, 1d10, 2d6, 3d6, 4d6, 6d6, 8d6
1d6, 1d8, 1d10, 2d6, 2d8, 3d8, 4d8, 6d8, 8d8
1d8, 1d10, 2d6, 2d8, 2d10, 4d8, 6d8, 8d8, 12d8

[zergling.exe]

I just worked out the (rough) conversion for larger and smaller monks, comparing the monk damage progression to the weapon damage progression, in order to fuse the two. I compared the relations between damage progression for the monk to those for weapons, trying to stay closer to the Monk.

Fine-Colossal
1, 1d2, 1d3, 1d4, 1d6, 1d8, 2d6, 3d6, 4d6
1d2, 1d3, 1d4, 1d6, 1d8, 2d6, 3d6, 6d4, 6d6
1d3, 1d4, 1d6, 1d8, 1d10, 2d8, 3d8, 4d8, 6d8
1d4, 1d6, 1d8, 1d10, 2d6, 3d6, 4d6, 6d6, 8d6
1d6, 1d8, 1d10, 2d6, 2d8, 3d8, 4d8, 6d8, 8d8
1d8, 1d10, 2d6, 2d8, 2d10, 4d8, 6d8, 8d8, 12d8

Please check the date on threads you find via search engines before posting and make sure you read the forum rules.

[Roland St. Jude]

Sheriff: Thread necromancy is disfavored here.