Swashbuckler: Warlock or Battle-master dip?

[AmbientRaven]

Hi Folks,

In an upcoming game I will be playing a Swashbuckler in a campaign designed around moral ambiguity (based on firefly, but with more shady happenings).

I'm going for a character concept based loosely on Gambit (the Charm), Han Solo (lovable shady guy) and Syrio Forel (Swordmaster).
I plan for him to be a rotten cheat at cards, and be everybodys friend.

I want to get hex as well as Riposte Maneuver, so I have two options
3 Battlemaster: Action Surge, Medium+Heavy Armour, Shields, Maneuvers (Riposte, precision, 1 other).
Drawback: I wont get Panache until 12, no feat until level 7 (where I will take magical secrets (Hex)
2 Warlock: 120ft Dark vision, Hex 2/short rest (Comprehend languages, truestrike, blade ward and hellish Rebuke possibly as well). Ability for EVERYONE to understand my Panache attempts via Old One ability. Also I can start with 1 warlock / 5 rogue and add the 2nd warlock level later
Drawback: Feating Riposte means its only 1 per short rest.

Some feedback would be fantastic, as i am back and forthing a lot on what way to go with this character

thanks!

[Rhaegar14]

What's the rest of the build? Do you see this character as magical? Since you're going for a specific feel that might be more the thing to make your decision off of.

[AmbientRaven]

Well, talking it over with the GF I think Malcom Reynolds meets Gambit, suave, lovable rogue, not a good guy but not evil.

Im thinking more swashbuckler and feat for 1/Day Hex as it is primarily to help with panache

[Giant2005]

How many Short Rests are you likely to be taking each day?
If the answer is 0, then the Fighter is the superior option (It has 300% more Riposte uses and only 50% less Hex uses).
If the answer is 1 then they are equal in their respective gains (Each option has 300% more of the other's respective resource usage) but the Warlock would be technically better due to gaining its power in fewer levels.
If the answer is more than 1, then the Warlock is the superior option by increasing its Hex uses by a greater percentage than the Fighter increases Riposte uses.

[Citan]

Hi!

A few considerations I'd suggest to keep in mind...


Warlock
Hex
Hex can be "moved" to another creature as a bonus action and lasts up to one hour. So you effectively need only one cast per short rest. Also, it can help grapple by giving disadvantage to STR or DEX check. Nice if you want to keep your prey close to you. ^^

Warlock spells
Apart from Hex, the other spells available to Warlock are situationnally good (only Charm Person could interest you and you can learn it too at lvl1). Therefore, 2-levels dip in Warlock has meaning only if you are interested in having 2 slots and Invocations. Warlock invocations (like the usual empowered Eldricht Blast or getting Devil Sight, free Armor etc).

Warlock Invocations
Many good choices here: either get a strong ranged cantrip (Agonizing+ Repelling), better defense (Free Mage Armor) or roleplay goodies (Persuasion+Intimidation proficiency, free Disguise Self).

Patron
Telepathy from GOO is very nice. I personnally love it. :=)


Rogue
- Rogue Capstone is great but you're decided on multiclassing, so it's out.
- Rogue's 19th is an ASI feat. You also lose 1d6 dice. Too bad.
- Rogue's 18th lvl is great in itself, but you can manage without it imo (or, told otherwise, the benefits of multiclassing are worth it).
- Rogue's 17th lvl is good for a pure Swashbuckler but not great. It becomes very low-value if you go Battlemaster (because Manoeuvers can up your precision). The real value here is the +1d6 SA dice.

Battlemaster
- Fighting Style is a very nice bonus to have. No question here.
- Action Surge is always nice, but your damage burst as a Rogue will be SA so limited to one of your attacks ever. Meaning that Action Surge is nice only if you go Arcane Trickster because you could cast a spell and SA in the same round. And you said you'll go Swashbuckler so...
- Battlemaster manoeuvers are great for everyone, even more so for you (up your "to hit", make someone prone to get advantage, up your AC while moving etc).

My personal recommendations from best to lesser choice...

1) Warlock 1 + Battlemaster 3
You get Hex (for combat) and Charm Person (for outside combat), Telepathy and all the beauty of Manoeuvers (suggestion: Evasive Footwork, Precision Attack and either Lunging Attack or Trip attack).
Your real loss here are not Rogue abilities but the 2d6 dice. These are partly compensated though by combo Hex+Manoeuvers so, in actual combat you only lose something like 1d6 dice depending on your rolls.
>>> Fits with your initial idea, the most physical offensive (damage + precision).

2) Warlock 2 / Draconic Sorcerer 1
You forego Fighter completely. For 1d6 SA loss, you get Warlock spells, Invocations (Agonizing/Repelling Blast, Beguiling Influence, Free Disguise Self) and Draconic Resilience (great since you'll be high DEX). AND a few slots for nice Sorcerer Spells (Shield, Magic Missile, Burning Hands, Sleep).
>>> A build nearly as good in terms of base damage, and much better defense and versatility. You lose burst damage and fun of manoeuvers though.

3) Warlock 3
You get all benefits from lvl 2 + a Pact: Tome (free cantrips and rituals) and Chain (variant familiar to get Magic Resistance shared) are both great additions to your build.
>>> For 1d6 SA loss, get Warlock spells, invocations and either good defense (Variant Familiar) or cantrip versatility.

4) Warlock 3 Chain / Draconic 1
You lose 2d6 SA but get combined benefits of the two previous suggestions. May be worth it or not.

5) Warlok 2 / Fighter 1
For invocations and Fighting Style. Interesting only if you really want a Fighting Style: Archery because you'll go ranged, Two-weapon fighting for dual build or Mariner (the last being the best if you go One-handed: extra mobility and armor). But even so I don't think it's worth it.

[Giant2005]

Keep in mind that you could also get your Riposte from two levels of spell-less Ranger if you are finding yourself unwilling to devote too many levels to multiclassing.
Warlock 1/Ranger Variant 2 is probably better than Battlemaster 3 for your purposes.

[Citan]

Keep in mind that you could also get your Riposte from two levels of spell-less Ranger if you are finding yourself unwilling to devote too many levels to multiclassing.
Warlock 1/Ranger Variant 2 is probably better than Battlemaster 3 for your purposes.
Hey! :) Didn't remember about the Spellless Ranger existence.
You're right it's even better than Fighter unless one really wants the Mariner fighting Style. You only have 2 manoeuvers available but it should be enough most of the time.

Hmmm... Rediscovering this makes my head spin with new multiclass options... ^^

[AmbientRaven]

The extra fighter level though gets shields, action surge and second wind. Almost seems a better option than 2 ranger

[Millface]

The extra fighter level though gets shields, action surge and second wind. Almost seems a better option than 2 ranger

I actually really like 5 levels in Totem Barb for this. Main stats Dex and Con, use a shield and a finesse weapon. You lose out on the +2 damage from raging using finesse, but you still get sneak attacks. Extra attack @5.

Unarmored Defense with Con as your second highest stat should also put you at 21 AC with a shield with a ton of hit points and 3 encounters/day you take half damage from everything but Psychic. You get advantage on dex saves from sources you can see, stacked with evasion this makes you essentially immune to Dex based Magic. Sneak Attacks once per round, more if you go with Sentinel and start using those opportunity attacks.

If you insist on warlock can I suggest Tiefling or Drow? Then you get darkness as a racial to abuse Devil's Sight. If you're dipping in any of these 3 I would suggest leveling up until you get your extra attack. 5 from BM or Barb, 6 from Bladelock. Otherwise it's kind of a waste. I'd rate Barb/Lock>Fighter for this though, and you want to start as the dip class to get your extra attack first, then go Swash for the rest.