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the_tick_rules
2007-05-02, 12:47 PM
1. How could a monk overcome cold iron or silver DR. I know there's a few spells and rings that make your weapons silver and such. I also know a monk can't use enchnated gauntlets. But if fighting demons or devils is there any way a monk could like use silver mesh gloves or anything?

2. I remember someone mentioning a feat called hands as weapons from aracana evolved or some book like that makes it so you can enchant your hands with the weapons list of enchantments. If that rights I'm assuming you couldn't do that normally.

Jasdoif
2007-05-02, 01:08 PM
1. A monk can use an enchanted gauntlet just fine. The only question is whether it works with flurry of blows or not (which the FAQ answers both ways, in adjacent questions on the same page. Decidely inconvenient.)

And don't forget monk can make an unarmed strike with any part of his/her/its body, so you could have a cold iron gauntlet, a silver gauntlet, and still be able to use your regular unarmed attacks (kicks, etc). If you're not allowed to use gauntlets as part of a flurry (your DM's call), you can use flurry of blows while you're wearing them, you just can't use the gauntlets in the flurry.

2. You can't normally enchant your hands as magic weapons, no. There are exceptions though, the one off the top of my head is the Kensai's ability to choose unarmed strikes as a signature weapon and add enchantments to them as such.

Darrin
2007-05-02, 01:21 PM
1. How could a monk overcome cold iron or silver DR. I know there's a few spells and rings that make your weapons silver and such. I also know a monk can't use enchnated gauntlets. But if fighting demons or devils is there any way a monk could like use silver mesh gloves or anything?


The "can't use gauntlets" thing is still a bit up in the air, but monks CAN use them. They're not immediately proficient with them, and depending on your interpretation they may or may not be able to use their unarmed damage or flurry abilities. Check with your DM and see how he interprets the gauntlets/unarmed strike thing.

Otherwise, there are a couple work-arounds:

a) Take Kensai levels to enchant your fists with various weapon abilities.
b) Multi-class into a martial adept class, and pick up some maneuvers that bypass or nullify DR.
c) There are a few feats that allow a monk to use martial weapons with monk abilities like flurry... Eberron has a few, and the Dragon Compendium has "Unorthodox Flurry" for light weapons, so take a look at those.
d) Pick up Improved Natural Attack, Superior Unarmed Strike, Monk's Belt, potions of Bulls Strength/Enlarge Person. One of the simplest ways to defeat DR is to just DO MORE DAMAGE.



2. I remember someone mentioning a feat called hands as weapons from aracana evolved or some book like that makes it so you can enchant your hands with the weapons list of enchantments. If that rights I'm assuming you couldn't do that normally.

Not familiar with Arcana Evolved, but it sounds like the Kensai PrC in Complete Warrior.

There are also now a couple feat chains that allow you to spend Stunning Fist uses to buff your unarmed attacks... flaming fists, higher save DCs, etc. PHBII/Complete ???.

Human Paragon 3
2007-05-02, 01:39 PM
I have a couple questions about Flurry of Blows and this seemed like as good a thread as any for it.

Say I have four Flurry attacks coming to me. Must they be simple unarmed strikes, or could I do, say, a Dissarm, Trip, Stunning Fist, Stunning Fist? If this isn't possible, an answer structered as "No, but you COULD do X,Y,Z..." would be appreciated.

Also, in a grapple, if you have multiple attacks (from a flurry or from your BAB or from a feat) can you make multiple opposed grapple roles to inflict damage? Can you take all your attacks (with light weapons) at a -4 penalty? The rules are a bit unclear.

brian c
2007-05-02, 01:46 PM
I have a couple questions about Flurry of Blows and this seemed like as good a thread as any for it.

Say I have four Flurry attacks coming to me. Must they be simple unarmed strikes, or could I do, say, a Dissarm, Trip, Stunning Fist, Stunning Fist? If this isn't possible, an answer structered as "No, but you COULD do X,Y,Z..." would be appreciated.

That's fine. Each of those attacks (disarm, trip, stunning fist, etc) would normally replace a single attack, so there's no difference in them replacing a single attack in a flurry. Of course, the normal limit of number of times you can use Stunning Fist still applies.



Also, in a grapple, if you have multiple attacks (from a flurry or from your BAB or from a feat) can you make multiple opposed grapple roles to inflict damage? Can you take all your attacks (with light weapons) at a -4 penalty? The rules are a bit unclear.

It's not very clear as written, but I think you're only supposed to get one attack while grappling, even if your BAB would normally allow you iterative attacks.

Human Paragon 3
2007-05-02, 03:04 PM
It's not very clear as written, but I think you're only supposed to get one attack while grappling, even if your BAB would normally allow you iterative attacks.

Thats what I thought of at first, but some of the options in a grapple say "in place of an attack," implying that you can make more than one attack in a grapple.

Fax Celestis
2007-05-02, 03:07 PM
Thats what I thought of at first, but some of the options in a grapple say "in place of an attack," implying that you can make more than one attack in a grapple.

They're referring to your single attack you receive while in a grapple; the phrasing is the way it is since there are many kinds of attack you can do while in a grapple.

the_tick_rules
2007-05-02, 03:16 PM
my DM allows me to make multiple grapple/pin attacks in a round. well my dm doesn't allow the enchanted gauntlets to be used, maybe like making special gauntlets and leg plates might be allowed, i'll ask him later.

Human Paragon 3
2007-05-02, 03:19 PM
On the one hand, it's cool to play grappling as the great equalizer. If you can grapple, just grab the big guy and his 6 attacks per round are meaningless. On the other hand, it makes sense for somebody with more attacks to have an advantage even in the grapples.

You are supposed to add your BAB to your STR modifier, so if your BAB is +6/+1, shouldn't you get two attacks? gah!

Foxpaw
2007-05-02, 03:36 PM
1. How could a monk overcome cold iron or silver DR.

Silver or cold iron Kama.

Jasdoif
2007-05-02, 03:41 PM
Like it says in the grappling rules, if your BAB is high enough to give you multiple attacks, you can make multiple attacks for those grappling options say you can use them in place of an attack. You take the usual penalty for iterative attacks in this case (if you can make the "attacks", the second takes a -5 penalty, third takes a -10 penalty, fourth takes a -15 penalty)


When you are grappling (regardless of who started the grapple), you can perform any of the following actions. Some of these actions take the place of an attack (rather than being a standard action or a move action). If your base attack bonus allows you multiple attacks, you can attempt one of these actions in place of each of your attacks, but at successively lower base attack bonuses.

Since flurry of blows isn't listed among the set of grapple options, you can't use flurry of blows in a grapple.

the_tick_rules
2007-05-02, 04:00 PM
Silver or cold iron Kama.

well the damage for that would be tiny compared to unarmed damage. i was thinking of since they have a spell gives a weapon silver properties the teams spell caster could learn that and create a cold iron version of the spell.

Matthew
2007-05-03, 02:09 PM
Thats what I thought of at first, but some of the options in a grapple say "in place of an attack," implying that you can make more than one attack in a grapple.

They're referring to your single attack you receive while in a grapple; the phrasing is the way it is since there are many kinds of attack you can do while in a grapple.

Like it says in the grappling rules, if your BAB is high enough to give you multiple attacks, you can make multiple attacks for those grappling options say you can use them in place of an attack. You take the usual penalty for iterative attacks in this case (if you can make the "attacks", the second takes a -5 penalty, third takes a -10 penalty, fourth takes a -15 penalty)
Since flurry of blows isn't listed among the set of grapple options, you can't use flurry of blows in a grapple.
Indeed, the most usual interpretation is that, during a Grapple, a Character gets as many Attacks as his BAB allows (i.e. 1-4), but none from other sources (such as Flurry, Two Weapon Fighting, Multi Attack or Multi Weapon Fighting).

Hypothetical
2007-05-03, 04:46 PM
well the damage for that would be tiny compared to unarmed damage. i was thinking of since they have a spell gives a weapon silver properties the teams spell caster could learn that and create a cold iron version of the spell.


The Kama is one of the Monks Special weapons. It gets all of the Monks normal unarmed attack bonuses, including damage. So having a Blacksmith build you a pair out of Silver or Cold Iron is actually a good idea.

Jasdoif
2007-05-03, 05:37 PM
The Kama is one of the Monks Special weapons. It gets all of the Monks normal unarmed attack bonuses, including damage.No it doesn't. Being a special monk weapon means you can use it as part of a flurry of blows, that's the extent of it.

rawling
2007-05-03, 06:33 PM
Would it be horrifically unbalancing to allow monks to wear and enchant gloves as weapons, so e.g. they're still dealing unarmed (base) damage (or not, at will), still using monk weapons rather than not, etc.?

Quirinus_Obsidian
2007-05-03, 10:45 PM
Naturally, your DM would have to allow such a powerful feat into the campaign. I have only been able to talk one DM into allowing it for one character...


Hands as Weapons [Ceremonial]
After a ritual in which participants sear your hands with scalding
water, your body can hold special magical abilities.

Prerequisite:

Truename

Benefit:


A character with this feat can add—or have someone

else add—an enhancement bonus or a weapon special ability
(such as flaming or disruption) to her unarmed attacks. She must
add the bonus or abilities normally, such as by enlisting the aid
of someone with the Craft Magic Arms and Armor feat, who
pays the gold and XP Costs, and so on. Like weapons, these
bonuses and abilities can be suppressed, but not permanently
dispelled.
Obviously, some weapon special abilities, such as dancing,
cannot apply to your unarmed attacks.
This feat can be used to modify unarmed attacks with natural
weapons such as claws or a bite attack. Characters with more
than one unarmed or natural attack need not take this feat multiple
times.

Jasdoif
2007-05-03, 10:59 PM
Would it be horrifically unbalancing to allow monks to wear and enchant gloves as weapons, so e.g. they're still dealing unarmed (base) damage (or not, at will), still using monk weapons rather than not, etc.?Not really, since you could do most of that with gauntlets, only the "monk weapons" part is really in question. Even the FAQ suggests the possibility of enchanted gloves.


In fact...I'm just going to quote the two FAQ sections I mentioned earlier.

Can a monk wear a gauntlet and still use her flurry of blows? Does she gain any other special abilities of the gauntlets with her unarmed strikes?

Technically, a gauntlet isn’t an unarmed strike (it has a separate line on Table 7–5: Weapons in the Player’s Handbook), and thus can’t be used as part of a flurry of blows. A monk could wear gauntlets and still use flurry of blows, she just couldn’t attack with the gauntlets as part of the flurry (she’d be using her feet, elbows, knees, and so forth instead).

If that’s too much hairsplitting for you, treat a gauntlet attack as effectively identical to an unarmed strike, except that it always deals lethal damage (even when worn by a monk).

Many magic items called gauntlets aren’t necessarily using the same terminology. Gauntlets of ogre power, for example, aren’t always metal gloves. It’s conceivable that a monk might be wearing magic gauntlets that grant a special benefit on her unarmed strikes without those gauntlets also serving as weapons in their own right. In this case, the monk is making unarmed strike attacks, not gauntlet attacks.

Can a monk treat an attack with a gauntlet as an unarmed strike?

A monk could wear such an item and treat it as an unarmed strike (since the Player’s Handbook says that “a strike with a gauntlet is . . . considered an unarmed attack”), although the damage dealt by the gauntlet would always be considered lethal damage (as noted in the gauntlet entry) and the monk would suffer a nonproficiency penalty (since the gauntlet is a simple weapon). The monk could even use gauntlet attacks as part of a flurry of blows.

Starbuck_II
2007-05-04, 12:09 AM
well the damage for that would be tiny compared to unarmed damage. i was thinking of since they have a spell gives a weapon silver properties the teams spell caster could learn that and create a cold iron version of the spell.
Not if you buy the Kama from Magic Item Comprehedruim cost 6k for +1 kama that deals unarmed damage of your monk level.

It is in the Set Items in the book. Just make a Silvered or Cold Iron Version (or as a Mage in a shop or friendly party one to make one for you).

Problem is you need one to make one (itr says so). So you'll have to buy it or another set piece first (I like the sandals myself).