Princes of Apocalypse and other 5e Adventures difficulty? (spoilers)

[RagnaroksChosen]

So I am running The Princes of Apocalypse adventure. Which so far as been good. However I've noticed that the haunted Keeps seem to me near impossible. They don't really have spots to take short/long rests, and most of the encounters are deadly or quickly go to deadly as the rest of the compounds descend on the PC's. Riverguard keep actualy has a section about raising the alarm. I've had one TPK at Riverguard keep though I think thats due to where they started the fight. And I feel like I could easily get a 2nd one at the Feathergale spire. They fought in the stables area and that seemed like it could get out of hand quick.

I've seen similar sections of Horde of the Dragon queen having some encounters that the party really can't win, or can't win without some heavy GM intervention.

Am I missing something or are these adventures extremely hard? My players could suck that much. Also I try not to pull punches or manipulate encounters that much. As my players have called me out on it (not that they know the encounters but sometimes when blatantly obvious things don't happen they make mention of it) (like at riverguard keep the guys on the wall I was trying to keep out of the fight and one of them mentioned why are they not doing anything...)

Now I've played the old Gygaxian modules and I feel like these are very similar to the brutality (I mean I know this is no Tomb of horrors.)


Thoughts/Opinions/etc?

[PoeticDwarf]

So I am running The Princes of Apocalypse adventure. Which so far as been good. However I've noticed that the haunted Keeps seem to me near impossible. They don't really have spots to take short/long rests, and most of the encounters are deadly or quickly go to deadly as the rest of the compounds descend on the PC's. Riverguard keep actualy has a section about raising the alarm. I've had one TPK at Riverguard keep though I think thats due to where they started the fight. And I feel like I could easily get a 2nd one at the Feathergale spire. They fought in the stables area and that seemed like it could get out of hand quick.

I've seen similar sections of Horde of the Dragon queen having some encounters that the party really can't win, or can't win without some heavy GM intervention.

Am I missing something or are these adventures extremely hard? My players could suck that much. Also I try not to pull punches or manipulate encounters that much. As my players have called me out on it (not that they know the encounters but sometimes when blatantly obvious things don't happen they make mention of it) (like at riverguard keep the guys on the wall I was trying to keep out of the fight and one of them mentioned why are they not doing anything...)

Now I've played the old Gygaxian modules and I feel like these are very similar to the brutality (I mean I know this is no Tomb of horrors.)


Thoughts/Opinions/etc?

You're right, but it isn't about just fighting anything. Especially Horde of the Dragon Queen is about finding another way than just rushing.

[RagnaroksChosen]

You're right, but it isn't about just fighting anything. Especially Horde of the Dragon Queen is about finding another way than just rushing.

No arguments there. Though to be fair (in PoA) there are some places where combat is inevitable. I know in HoDQ there are alot of ways to avoid fights and not get screwed.

I just was curious if others have had this problem, or if I am missing something.

Maybe I am just crazy but it seems like 5e is far more lethal then past editions?

[Envyus]

They don't really have spots to take short/long rests,

This is were the old staple of leaving the compound to rest is a better idea.

[RagnaroksChosen]

This is were the old staple of leaving the compound to rest is a better idea.

Ya that's what I was originally thinking. Though I think this causes more problems. PC's take out a room or two in a given keep (using PoA as an example) then leave. Wouldn't the Keep be even more ready for the PC's then they where before? Like it seems to be there could be an even easier party wipe. They may have changed there defenses now that they see what the PC's can do.


Though this is really the answer to the rest issue.



To every one:

Another question has any one run PoA and or had problems with the Keeps?

[SharkForce]

Ya that's what I was originally thinking. Though I think this causes more problems. PC's take out a room or two in a given keep (using PoA as an example) then leave. Wouldn't the Keep be even more ready for the PC's then they where before? Like it seems to be there could be an even easier party wipe. They may have changed there defenses now that they see what the PC's can do.


Though this is really the answer to the rest issue.



To every one:

Another question has any one run PoA and or had problems with the Keeps?

do they have unlimited resources? because those same people tried to defend the keep before, and instead got successfully raided. now they have fewer people available to guard the same amount of area, unless something odd happened. either they cede some territory, or they must be spread thinner than they were before. they cannot possibly have the same or better coverage *everywhere* than they did before, and if they shift more guards to one location, they have to strip guards from another location, and they already *know* there isn't any point in shifting fewer guards to the location than they had in the first place because those guards got killed.

so they pull guards from elsewhere. that just means that now somewhere else is vulnerable. if the party wants to launch a frontal assault, they'll need to find that somewhere else, and exploit the vulnerability.

[RagnaroksChosen]

do they have unlimited resources? because those same people tried to defend the keep before, and instead got successfully raided. now they have fewer people available to guard the same amount of area, unless something odd happened. either they cede some territory, or they must be spread thinner than they were before. they cannot possibly have the same or better coverage *everywhere* than they did before, and if they shift more guards to one location, they have to strip guards from another location, and they already *know* there isn't any point in shifting fewer guards to the location than they had in the first place because those guards got killed.

so they pull guards from elsewhere. that just means that now somewhere else is vulnerable. if the party wants to launch a frontal assault, they'll need to find that somewhere else, and exploit the vulnerability.

Fair enough. Some of the keeps in this are to easy to defend against lower level PC's.

Also, some according to the book get re-enforced from elsewhere if the PC's leave.