Gunslinger that can do everything a rogue can do?

[killem2]

I'm looking for a build or advice that can help mold the gunslinger into a rogue for scouting and such but still be rooted in the ability to kick ass with guns. Any thoughts? :smallbiggrin:

[upho]

Well, after grabbing the Trap Finder (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/campaign-traits/mummy-s-mask/trap-finder) trait and pumping Disable Device, Stealth and Perception, is there anything vital related to scouting a rogue can do that a gunslinger cannot? I certainly don't think you need to dip any levels in other classes or a special build in order to get "enough" scouting prowess.

Unless maybe if you're playing a very unusual type of game with tons of extremely difficult locks and traps plus tons of highly perceptive opponents, I guess.

[Dusk Eclipse]

What do you want from gunslinger? If you only want the guns, you could go Steel Hound Ivestigator (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/hybrid-classes/investigator/archetypes/paizo---investigator-archetypes/steel-hound) and be a badass, gun-totting int-based skill monkey (you become slightly mad since Grit is based on Wisdom). You even get access to deeds starting at level 11, though from a quick look the only one you really need is quick clear.

[Psyren]

What do you want from gunslinger? If you only want the guns, you could go Steel Hound Inquisitor (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/hybrid-classes/investigator/archetypes/paizo---investigator-archetypes/steel-hound) and be a badass, gun-totting int-based skill monkey (you become slightly mad since Grit is based on Wisdom). You even get access to deeds starting at level 11, though from a quick look the only one you really need is quick clear.

Did you mean Investigator?

I think there is a way to get Int-based Grit as well. Maybe a Magus Arcana?

[Dusk Eclipse]

I have no idea what you are talking about [/innocent whistling] I clearly wrote Investigator, not inquisitor, if anyone tells you differently it is a lie! A Lie I say!

[Geddy2112]

There is also the black-powder inquisition (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/inquisitor/inquisitions/inquistions---paizo/black-powder-inquisition) if you want to go the inquisitor route.

[Psyren]

I have no idea what you are talking about [/innocent whistling] I clearly wrote Investigator, not inquisitor, if anyone tells you differently it is a lie! A Lie I say!

:smallbiggrin:


There is also the black-powder inquisition (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/inquisitor/inquisitions/inquistions---paizo/black-powder-inquisition) if you want to go the inquisitor route.

Ahh, I knew there was a Gunquisitor I was forgetting! I was looking through the archetypes like "I just know they did something around this..."

[Extra Anchovies]

Ask for Int-based grit. Gunslinger needs a few buffs anyways (I like to give them 4th-level Ranger spellcasting).

[killem2]

Thanks everyone,

I really wanted either a rogue/scout class that was excellent with guns, or a gunslinger that is really good at what a rogue can do.

These suggestions give me some real starting ground.

[Geddy2112]

Ask for Int-based grit. Gunslinger needs a few buffs anyways (I like to give them 4th-level Ranger spellcasting).

You mean like this (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/ranger/archetypes/paizo---ranger-archetypes/trophy-hunter)?

Int based grit does not seem like a buff, its more MAD if anything.

[Dusk Eclipse]

I think he was referring to the Steel hound, not the base Gunslinger.

[Extra Anchovies]

No, I'm talking about taking the Gunslinger and making all of its Wis-based features Int-based. Maybe swap its saves to good Reflex and Will.

[Coxswain]

Did you mean Investigator?

I think there is a way to get Int-based Grit as well. Maybe a Magus Arcana?

There's a pretty bad archetype (The Siege Gunner (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/gunslinger/archetypes/paizo---gunslinger-archetypes/siege-gunner-gunslinger-archetype)) which uses INT for Grit. If you're up for a one level dip it's not terrible, since you keep quick clear.

OP, other people in the thread have given you a bunch of ideas, but have you thought of just doing 5 gunslinger / 15 rogue? After you get gun training I there's not a whole lot else in the class for you unless you really want signature deed or Dead Shot.

If you want to go Steel Hound, definitely recommend that you ask for INT for Grit. It's a little too MAD otherwise.

[Spore]

Ask for Int-based grit. Gunslinger needs a few buffs anyways (I like to give them 4th-level Ranger spellcasting).

I'd go for Extracts to be honest. It's closer to the whole gunpowder thing.

[Dusk Eclipse]

So... Steel Hound investigator?

[atemu1234]

So... Steel Hound investigator?

This seems to be the consensus...

[grarrrg]

There's a pretty bad archetype (The Siege Gunner (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/gunslinger/archetypes/paizo---gunslinger-archetypes/siege-gunner-gunslinger-archetype)) which uses INT for Grit. If you're up for a one level dip it's not terrible, since you keep quick clear.

It's actually not that bad, and most of the feature work with Scatter weapons, no need to haul around a Cannon.
*You get INT-Grit instead of WIS-Grit, for "rogue" purposes this is solid, as it gives you more Skill Points.
*You lose Nimble, and get a scaling bonus to Know(Engineering). This is a bad trade, as Engineering usually doesn't come up much.
*Lose Deadeye (not a big loss), and can spend Grit when firing a Scatter Weapon to deal extra damage to a target. Just make sure you carry around a Scatter weapon: Dragon Pistol or Blunderbuss, either can be used as 'scatter' or 'normal', but only has a 10ft. base range when shooting bullets. As levels increase you can add the bonus damage to more targets. Overall a fair trade, and can wind up doing a fair bit more damage than Up Close and Deadly Pistolero.
*Lose Gunslinger Initiative, get a passive increase to Scatter Radius. A below average trade, but not horrible.
*4th & 8th replace your normal bonus feats with (Master) Siege Engineer. This is the only truly "bad trade".

Overall I'd say it's perfectly serviceable for 5 levels. The INT based Grit pool is worth the 'wasted' feat.
Level 8+ gets questionable, as then you're wasting 2 feats.

[Coxswain]

It's actually not that bad, and most of the feature work with Scatter weapons, no need to haul around a Cannon.
*You get INT-Grit instead of WIS-Grit, for "rogue" purposes this is solid, as it gives you more Skill Points.
*You lose Nimble, and get a scaling bonus to Know(Engineering). This is a bad trade, as Engineering usually doesn't come up much.
*Lose Deadeye (not a big loss), and can spend Grit when firing a Scatter Weapon to deal extra damage to a target. Just make sure you carry around a Scatter weapon: Dragon Pistol or Blunderbuss, either can be used as 'scatter' or 'normal', but only has a 10ft. base range when shooting bullets. As levels increase you can add the bonus damage to more targets. Overall a fair trade, and can wind up doing a fair bit more damage than Up Close and Deadly Pistolero.
*Lose Gunslinger Initiative, get a passive increase to Scatter Radius. A below average trade, but not horrible.
*4th & 8th replace your normal bonus feats with (Master) Siege Engineer. This is the only truly "bad trade".

Overall I'd say it's perfectly serviceable for 5 levels. The INT based Grit pool is worth the 'wasted' feat.
Level 8+ gets questionable, as then you're wasting 2 feats.

This is a pretty great analysis, thanks for responding. I'll definitely take these points into account the next time I'm looking at multiclassing gunslinger! It's definitely my go-to for reducing MAD on any character build that uses INT heavily, I'm just not a huge fan of scatter weapons in general (mostly from a thematic perspective).

[killem2]

I apologize my work blocks so many things here. But i have pdfs to read. That Siege Gunner what book is that out of?

[Dusk Eclipse]

Inner Sea Combat according to the PFSRD (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/gunslinger/archetypes/paizo---gunslinger-archetypes/siege-gunner-gunslinger-archetype)

[killem2]

Awesome thanks :). PFSRD and Paizo is blocked. T_T

[grarrrg]

Awesome thanks :). PFSRD and Paizo is blocked. T_T

Archives of Nethys (http://www.archivesofnethys.com/ArchetypeDisplay.aspx?FixedName=Gunslinger%20Siege %20Gunner) do you any good?

[killem2]

Archives of Nethys (http://www.archivesofnethys.com/ArchetypeDisplay.aspx?FixedName=Gunslinger%20Siege %20Gunner) do you any good?

/facepalm how could I forget about archives.. I use it all the time at home. thank you, yes it works :D.