Brainstorming multi-domain clerics

[Shining Wrath]

The PHB is clear that a single deity can have clerics of more than one domain. For example, Apollo might have Knowledge, Light, and Life clerics. But suppose a devout follower wanted to know the totality of Apollo?

How would you blend Knowledge, Light, and Life (or any other combination of 2, 3, or 4 domains) into one archetype? The simple answer of "let the player choose at each level where a domain feature is granted from among those available in all the domains" seems OP.

Maybe the player doesn't get to choose, the choice is set randomly when the character is created, e.g., "OK, blended domain cleric of Apollo, you will get benefits in this order (dice tumble): Light, Knowledge, Life. So you get the 1st level abilities of a Light cleric, the 2nd level Channel Divinity of Knowledge, the 3rd level Life domain spells, et cetera".

Using the example, you'd have

L1: Light cantrip, burning hands, fairie fire
L2: Channel Divinity: Knowledge of the Ages
L3: Lesser Restoration, Spiritual Weapon
L5: Daylight, Fireball
L6: Channel Divinity: Read Thoughts
L7: Death Ward, Guardian of Faith
L8: Potent Spellcasting
L17: Supreme Healing

An interesting combination and someone who rolled Life, Light, Knowledge would look different.

[JellyPooga]

I think a better way to do it than randomly, would be to sit down (as the GM) and discuss it with the player. Between the two of you, you should be able to come to a consensus about what would be a reasonable progression, both in terms of "power" and the aspects of that deity the player wishes to display with that character.

Though randomly works too! (although it could lead to potentially "broken", as in literally does not work, or indeed "overpowered" combinations)

[Shining Wrath]

I think a better way to do it than randomly, would be to sit down (as the GM) and discuss it with the player. Between the two of you, you should be able to come to a consensus about what would be a reasonable progression, both in terms of "power" and the aspects of that deity the player wishes to display with that character.

Though randomly works too! (although it could lead to potentially "broken", as in literally does not work, or indeed "overpowered" combinations)

If a player's got a concept I'd be inclined to let them run with it ... so long as that concept wasn't "At each level I want the best stuff" :smallamused:

Someone who wanted Knowledge channel divinity, Light domain spells, and Life heavy armor isn't too out of line.

[Yorrin]

Overall I think blending domains would lead to a weakening of the Cleric. Most domains are, after all, built with a certain amount of synergy. I'm thinking especially of the energy-themed domains of Light, Thunder, and Death, where most features are tied in a big way to the domain spells and the other features within that domain. There are some exceptions (Life would combine well with nearly anything, for example) but overall I think this would need to be well thought out to not turn the hybrid domain into a total waste. The character would still have all the power of the Cleric spell list, but would lose a certain thematic focus provided by the current domains.

[Shining Wrath]

Overall I think blending domains would lead to a weakening of the Cleric. Most domains are, after all, built with a certain amount of synergy. I'm thinking especially of the energy-themed domains of Light, Thunder, and Death, where most features are tied in a big way to the domain spells and the other features within that domain. There are some exceptions (Life would combine well with nearly anything, for example) but overall I think this would need to be well thought out to not turn the hybrid domain into a total waste. The character would still have all the power of the Cleric spell list, but would lose a certain thematic focus provided by the current domains.

The theme, of course, is the domain granting deity. If the deity "makes sense", it ought to be possible to blend them in a flavorful and coherent way.

[GiantOctopodes]

My concerns would be twofold:

1) More spells prepared. This is the main one. Even if you had the domain powers granted for just one of the domains at each of the levels where you would normally gain a feature and hybridize it like that, it doesn't change the fact that at 20 with a 20 Wis, a normal cleric has 35 spells prepared, and you have 55 (or less, depending on overlap. In your specific example, 53). This means that you have more versatility than a traditional cleric, and since you have more of the "basics" covered by your domains, you can have more obscure spells ready at a moment's notice. This should have a cost of *some* sort, after all, you're granting 2x the main benefit of the favored soul subclass, generally regarded as the most powerful sorcerer subclass precisely for that benefit!

2) Cherry picking. You brought this one up yourself, and it would definitely be my concern as well. It relies on DM discretion or player restraint to keep powers balanced and it can be hard to balance between not just giving them the best ability of each level mark and not deliberately saddling them with abilities they don't need or want.

The second concern can be overcome, it's an obstacle but far from an insurmountable one. How to fix the balance concerns I have from the first one, I'm not yet certain, but I definitely think it warrants consideration.

[Slipperychicken]

The theme, of course, is the domain granting deity.

The fluff addresses this:


As a cleric, you choose one aspect of your deity's portfolio to emphasize, and you are granted powers related to that domain. Your choice might correspond to a particular sect dedicated to your deity. Apollo, for example, could be worshiped in one region as Phoebus ("radiant") Apollo, emphasizing his influence over the Light domain, and in a different place as Apollo Acesius ("healing"), emphasizing his association with the Life domain. Alternatively, your choice of domain could simply be a matter of personal preference, the aspect of the deity that appeals to you most.

tl:dr: When a deity covers multiple domains (almost always), then the Cleric picks his favorite one.

EDIT: "Knowing the totality of Apollo", to me, would mean getting the domain that the Cleric feels is most central to Apollo's nature.

[Shining Wrath]

My concerns would be twofold:

1) More spells prepared. This is the main one. Even if you had the domain powers granted for just one of the domains at each of the levels where you would normally gain a feature and hybridize it like that, it doesn't change the fact that at 20 with a 20 Wis, a normal cleric has 35 spells prepared, and you have 55 (or less, depending on overlap. In your specific example, 53). This means that you have more versatility than a traditional cleric, and since you have more of the "basics" covered by your domains, you can have more obscure spells ready at a moment's notice. This should have a cost of *some* sort, after all, you're granting 2x the main benefit of the favored soul subclass, generally regarded as the most powerful sorcerer subclass precisely for that benefit!

2) Cherry picking. You brought this one up yourself, and it would definitely be my concern as well. It relies on DM discretion or player restraint to keep powers balanced and it can be hard to balance between not just giving them the best ability of each level mark and not deliberately saddling them with abilities they don't need or want.

The second concern can be overcome, it's an obstacle but far from an insurmountable one. How to fix the balance concerns I have from the first one, I'm not yet certain, but I definitely think it warrants consideration.

I was planning on giving exactly 10 domain spells, possibly those of one domain, possibly mixed from different domains, but no more than the standard 10. An extra 20 spells is indeed too much to give.

[GiantOctopodes]

I was planning on giving exactly 10 domain spells, possibly those of one domain, possibly mixed from different domains, but no more than the standard 10. An extra 20 spells is indeed too much to give.

Ah, makes sense. What you could do, since there's 5 levels of spells (1, 3, 5, 7, 9) and 5 abilities (1, 2, 6, 8, and 17) you could correlate the two and provide spells based on the abilities you'll be granting. They all match up within 1 level except for the 9 / 17 split, but I think it could add more complexity to the choosing of which abilities you grant them and make it more of a fun trade off kinda situation.

[TheOOB]

The solution is making domains specific to the gods in your setting, but that requires a lot of work. In the cited example you'd just have the "Apollo" domain.

[Citan]

Hi! Thanks for opening this interesting (and non-trivial) topic.

I'd suggest a 3-phases processes.
1) Discuss a bit in advance with the player to check what he would actually want as spells/abilities. Two benefits:
- it gives you additional fluff information to interact, and maybe counsel him on abilities/spells.
- you can forbid some combinations from the get-go, avoiding any frustration from the player later.

2) Establish a list of things he'll get automatically whatever happens (easier for both).

3) Create some objectives he'll have to reach if he wants a better choice.

For example, you could...
- Let him choose freely his first ability and 1st level spells.
- Define for him the three next abilities, as well as one of the two spells he get at 3/5/7/9 lvls.
- For 2nd Domain spell, give him a small but meaningful quest to accomplish to get desired spell.
- For 5th ability, a great quest in the corresponding domain.

In practice, with the "Apollo" context, you could for example, for his second 5th level spell, tell him...
- If you want either nondetection or speak with dead, retrieve a lost text of wisdom (Knowledge).
- If you want beacon of hope or revivify, go help a distant village currently suffering from a dangerous (and contagious) disease (Life).
- If you want daylight of fireball, find and destroy the nest of ghouls that has been harassing farmers since a few days.
(Well, obviously not in such a straight way, rather the opposite: you imagine some god-related quests which strongly hint at what their reward is and let him choose one).

It will require some work for you, but as long as it's only for one player, it should be doable. And it is good for everyone: you (some easily justifiable quests), player (much more invested in his character), allies (because more RP/fight/loot/fun as a team). :)