DM Wants to Roll Character Abilities Himself

[Nifft]

Is this normal?

Would you accept a DM rolling the stats for your next character, and telling you what they are?

[Extra Anchovies]

Hell no, I wouldn't. "I'll roll your stats for you" is all too likely to be "I'm going to hand-pick your stats, because I like to play favorites and it would be funny if your character had a 5 in Constitution". I'd at the very least demand that he roll the stats in front of me using my dice, or I roll the stats in front of him using his dice. If he wouldn't be okay with that I'd probably walk then and there.

[ETA: The above applies only to situations where I am not already good friends with the DM. If it's someone who I know to be a good DM and trustworthy person, I'd likely be open to this.]

Of course, that's me being overly cynical and suspicious. If this is a situation you find yourself in, ask your DM why they want to A) generate your stats for you and B) not let you see the stat generation or even know the method used.

Also, it's definitely not a normal thing, because it isn't listed among the suggested ability score generation methods in the Player's Handbook and Dungeon Master's Guide (or in the CRB, if Pathfinder), and I know of exactly zero pen-and-paper roleplaying games where the DM generates stats for the players rather than the players rolling/point buying/arranging arrays themselves.

[Spore]

I have never seen this in practice. What I have witnessed is that when you roll your stats is that your DM wants to witness the rolls which is entirely fine.

[Boogastreehouse]

*



...Of course, that's me being overly cynical and suspicious...

Two other possible motives off the top of my head:

1. The DM wants to make sure everyone is balanced and no one is going to overshadow the others. If it's this one, he's kinda being a control-freak, but I would say that it's the opposite of playing favorites.

2. The DM has had bad experiences in the past with cheaters, perhaps even one of the players in this game. This reason is the one that I wound actually consider the most reasonable.


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[Sagetim]

Do you trust your DM? If so, then this should be fine. Admittedly it's rather odd, if it makes you feel more comfortable then ask them to roll the stats in front of you. As it is, I've been in systemless roleplaying scenarios where the dm has generated stats for a character I was playing based on a consensus we came to in describing the character and their life leading up to the point that the game started. In some cases I found that I had a character with phenomenal stats that the dice would never have given me.

So while my first reaction is suspicion at the DM saying he's going to gen stats, some part of me is willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. If you're not comfortable with it, then don't do it. At the least, you should probably ask why (and then tell us) because I know I'm curious about the reason.

[nerghull]

Does he just want to roll the dice/create scores for you, in order to avoid the 7 in an ability 18 in an other, or does he make the attribution of each ability ?

First case is just another creation method, an improvment of the elite array, with a little bit more flexibility (and potentially favorites), second is puting sticky fingers in the back of your character, and that's dirty, and he shoulds feel ashamed. Shame. Shame.

[Extra Anchovies]

1. The DM wants to make sure everyone is balanced and no one is going to overshadow the others. If it's this one, he's kinda being a control-freak, but I would say that it's the opposite of playing favorites.

Any DM who wants this would be better off using an ability score array or a point buy, because both of those ensure that the PC's ability scores are roughly even without being totally sketchy and potentially indicative of foul play on the part of the DM.


2. The DM has had bad experiences in the past with cheaters, perhaps even one of the players in this game. This reason is the one that I wound actually consider the most valid.

Again, point buys or arrays preclude any and all cheating from ability score generation.

Really, any GM who wants to determine their PC's starting ability scores should use point buy or arrays. Generating the characters' abilities in secret is just going to raise a pile of red flags.

[Boogastreehouse]

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Really, any GM who wants to determine their PC's starting ability scores should use point buy or arrays. Generating the characters' abilities in secret is just going to raise a pile of red flags.

Yeah, I think you're pretty much right.


*

[Lerondiel]

Is this normal?

Would you accept a DM rolling the stats for your next character, and telling you what they are?

Pretty easy really....let the DM 'roll', then tell him/her whether or not the scores are good enough that you're happy to play with them :)

[Crake]

I wouldn't particularly mind, as long as the array i was presented with could be moved around as I pleased (as opposed to being forced to be used in order), and could be worked to fit the concept I was looking to play in that game. Why he would need to do it in secret rather than rolling it in a public space (not necessarily using real dice in front of us, digital dice in a persistent chatlog somewhere work just as well) would be a bit confusing to me, and I would press that question until I got an answer. I'm 100% happy with rolls being adjusted by the DM to balance out the players, so if he wanted to do that in secret because he thought I wouldn't approve of my rolls being messed with, well, then I'd assure him I wouldn't mind.

[Keltest]

As a general rule I am not going to let other people make my character for me. MAYBE if I knew and trusted the DM, but unless were explicitly playing with pregenerated characters, how I spend my stats is for me to decide.

[Taelas]

It is not too unusual, but it's definitely not common, either. I've only see it when DMs make pregenerated characters, not just ability score rolls, though. There really doesn't seem much point to the latter...

[Hiro Quester]

It could be that he wants to balance the party by using a different method for the guy who wants to play a monk, than for the party Cleric and Wizard?

[Grod_The_Giant]

One other idea: he's got some idea about rolling stats in order and then having you pick a class because it's "closer to how life actually works" and "more immersive" and "better roleplaying" and junk like that. Any way you slice it, it's not normal, and is probably a red flag unless proven otherwise.

(If he's doing it in the name of balanced stats, maybe try introducing him to point buy?)

[Shackel]

One other idea: he's got some idea about rolling stats in order and then having you pick a class because it's "closer to how life actually works" and "more immersive" and "better roleplaying" and junk like that. Any way you slice it, it's not normal, and is probably a red flag unless proven otherwise.

(If he's doing it in the name of balanced stats, maybe try introducing him to point buy?)

Really, I wouldn't call that junk at all. If anything, that's probably the strongest reason I'd accept, if my DM was going to do something like that.

Nonetheless, OP, as you can tell by the responses, a lot of it comes down to your trust in the DM. I'll take the minority opinion that it's not malice or ignorance, and that you shouldn't immediately jump to that conclusion. If you're that worried about it, ask your DM about the reason for this, and maybe see if you can work something out.

[OldTrees1]

This is not normal but normality is not inherently valuable.

However I would need to know the DM has a good reason for this. Otherwise it would bug me (arbitrary decisions that add nothing and detract some bug me).

[Threadnaught]

Is this normal?

Would you accept a DM rolling the stats for your next character, and telling you what they are?

Personally? I wouldn't accept someone else having that much power over my character, even if it's random.

I have however, offered to roll for my own players, rolled and allowed them to choose between the numbers I rolled and their own. It's fun to be able to mess with them at the beginning of character creation.


Most recently, they have the chance to choose between the options of, for each character.
Rolling for their stats.
25 Point Buy.
Elite Array.
Accepting 6 of my own rolls, if they chose to roll and don't like the result.

Elite Array is nice and safe, Point Buy gives more customization, Rolls gives them a chance to get something really good, my rolls gives them a second chance to get something good if they don't like their own. I should probably get a few set up for future characters, just so I have some written down and ready.
Yes I do roll stats better than my players sometimes and my stats have been chosen occasionally.

[Psyren]

I would wait to see what the results are. After all, it's not like he can nail me to the chair if he rolls something crappy.

[Hrugner]

I don't think I'd go along with it honestly, character creation is a big part of the fun for me and by giving up pieces of that fun I don't think I'd feel that engaged in the game or interested in the character. I'd be pretty reckless and end up giving the DM a lot of chances to make my new characters for me.

[Nibbens]

Personally, I'd have a problem with this. Mathematically, however, the results are statistically the same (unless you agree with the psycho-dice theory (https://statisfaction.wordpress.com/2011/11/30/psycho-dice/)).

However, I have seen the opposite of the implied worries here. A PCs first game with my group - he was arriving late and wanted to jump in asap, so he asked me to roll up his character while he was on his way. I did...

With 4 other players watching I rolled: 14, 16, 18, 17, 14, 16. I've never rolled so well for any PC I've ever played - and I've played a lot of characters.

On a side note - that player is still with us and has totally owned his character making him better than I ever would. This is the bigger issue here I feel. How much control is he going to allow you after he rolls your stats. That's the question I'd be asking.

[Brookshw]

Is this normal?

Would you accept a DM rolling the stats for your next character, and telling you what they are?

I've never come across this before outside of a video game where you click generate. Very odd.

The best reason I can imagine for this would be a very niche game where the players start off with amnesia and no idea what they can do and the dm reveals these things as they're discovered. I doubt this is the situation here though.

[Sacrieur]

Either point buy or pre-generated stat allocation.

I don't know why rolling stats is a thing.

[Keltest]

Either point buy or pre-generated stat allocation.

I don't know why rolling stats is a thing.

Because sometimes being Bob the Halfling druid with 6 charisma can be fun. Comically low stats are great sources of jokes for serious and non-serious campaigns alike.

[Sacrieur]

Because sometimes being Bob the Halfling druid with 6 charisma can be fun. Comically low stats are great sources of jokes for serious and non-serious campaigns alike.

Nothing is stopping someone with a point buy from rolling their own stats, it just puts a cap on how high they can go with them.

[Nibbens]

Either point buy or pre-generated stat allocation.

I don't know why rolling stats is a thing.

I've noticed when I do it, it's mostly a hold over from when I played 2nd edition - and all my groups seem to do the stat rolling thing too. There's that element of chance that you might wind up with really great or really crap stats - and further change the "character creation dynamic." This works especially well when everyone's creating their characters together. "You have this - okay then I can afford to do that, to get get this" ... and so on.

Although, I will admit - point buys are extremely fair, if not boring. lol.

[OldTrees1]

Because sometimes being Bob the Halfling druid with 6 charisma can be fun. Comically low stats are great sources of jokes for serious and non-serious campaigns alike.

There are point buys for that. Hey, even RAW using the base 8-18 point buy I can drop to a 4 in a stat and age can drop some of those to 1(or 0 but I don't suggest that).

[Keltest]

There are point buys for that. Hey, even RAW using the base 8-18 point buy I can drop to a 4 in a stat and age can drop some of those to 1(or 0 but I don't suggest that).

Yeah, but how many people actually think to do something like that? Sometimes you just want to see which way the dice roll and go with it.

[OldTrees1]

Yeah, but how many people actually think to do something like that? Sometimes you just want to see which way the dice roll and go with it.

You are describing something different. If someone is looking for a low stat then point buy is preferable. However if they just want to roll with it then rolling is obviously the right way to go.

Hey, if the you are good enough with math you can give the roll/point buy as a player by player choice rather than a table by table choice.

[marphod]

On the not-malicious side, it isn't common, but I can see some cause for it.

1) Testing a new dice rolling mechanism for Stats that you aren't sure will work, but would like to experiment with.
2) Giving a higher point buy for MAD characters than SAD characters.
3) Ensuring some reasonable equity between characters, but still liking the random stat generation
4) Knowing that one of the (other) players has a casual relationship with the accuracy of dice rolls and not wanting to single anyone out.
5) You're a new player to the gaming group and the DM has a history with players like in #4.

Some of these are better reasons than others. Some of these have better solutions than others.

I'd ask the DM why. and I'd ask if they plan on publishing all the generated stats so everyone can see what the results were, rather than them being player-secrets.

[LoyalPaladin]

Hell no, I wouldn't. "I'll roll your stats for you" is all too likely to be "I'm going to hand-pick your stats, because I like to play favorites and it would be funny if your character had a 5 in Constitution".
I agree with this 100%. I'd walk if this was mandatory, you are almost guaranteed to get poorly fitting stats.

[Talakeal]

My DM takes this one step further. He asks you what you want to play, and then he makes a character for you. He keeps your character concept in mind, but only as a suggestion, and changes whatever he sees fit. This includes both crunchy mechanics as well as fluff like appearance, background, and name.

[Keltest]

My DM takes this one step further. He asks you what you want to play, and then he makes a character for you. He keeps your character concept in mind, but only as a suggestion, and changes whatever he sees fit. This includes both crunchy mechanics as well as fluff like appearance, background, and name.

Ok, new question. Why does anybody else in your gamer group play with him? Has he really managed to make each and every one of them feel bad when they try to quit?

[Talakeal]

Ok, new question. Why does anybody else in your gamer group play with him? Has he really managed to make each and every one of them feel bad when they try to quit?

Actually half the original group has already quit. None of them did so dramatically though, they just stopped showing up or answering the DM's calls, a luxury I don't have.

[TheTeaMustFlow]

Assuming you can't persuade the man to allow point buy, I'd ask the DM if you can't just roll your stats in front of him - just say you enjoy rolling your own stats. If he won't allow that, ask him why not - unless he has a really good reason, a DM that unreasonable raises alarm bells, to say the least.

[atemu1234]

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Two other possible motives off the top of my head:

1. The DM wants to make sure everyone is balanced and no one is going to overshadow the others. If it's this one, he's kinda being a control-freak, but I would say that it's the opposite of playing favorites.

2. The DM has had bad experiences in the past with cheaters, perhaps even one of the players in this game. This reason is the one that I wound actually consider the most reasonable.


*

In either case, introduce your DM to Point-Buy. It would save time and hopefully work out better.

[JNAProductions]

My DM takes this one step further. He asks you what you want to play, and then he makes a character for you. He keeps your character concept in mind, but only as a suggestion, and changes whatever he sees fit. This includes both crunchy mechanics as well as fluff like appearance, background, and name.

I sorta do this. I tend to ask players what they want and just build it for them, though I always check fluff changes with them.

However, my group is mostly people new to D&D, so this just ensures they get a good character. Once they get more experience, I'll be glad to say "Build your own damn character."

[ShaneMRoth]

Is this normal?

Would you accept a DM rolling the stats for your next character, and telling you what they are?

Not normal.

This is really only a routine measure in the context of tournaments or public events. The referee hands out completely pre-made characters in the spirit of saving time.

This sounds like a DM who has PTMS. Post-Traumatic Munchkin Syndrome.

[marphod]

My DM takes this one step further. He asks you what you want to play, and then he makes a character for you. He keeps your character concept in mind, but only as a suggestion, and changes whatever he sees fit. This includes both crunchy mechanics as well as fluff like appearance, background, and name.

...
For a one shot, a guest star, or a game at a con, sure. For an ongoing tabletop?

Are you allowed to level your characters or change things? Or are you all playing DM proxy characters?

[Talakeal]

...
For a one shot, a guest star, or a game at a con, sure. For an ongoing tabletop?

Are you allowed to level your characters or change things? Or are you all playing DM proxy characters?

We are not allowed to modify or take home our character sheets, or look at anyone's sheet but his own.

When we level up we tell him what we want, and then he levels up the characters after we go home and USUALLY gives us the skills / feats that we have chosen.

[Keltest]

We are not allowed to modify or take home our character sheets, or look at anyone's sheet but his own.

When we level up we tell him what we want, and then he levels up the characters after we go home and USUALLY gives us the skills / feats that we have chosen.

Remind me, what exactly is preventing you from telling this guy that you are no longer interested in gaming with him?

[Dusk Eclipse]

IIRC he plays in another group that has that DM as a player and he doesn't want to jeopardize the second (better) group.

[ShaneMRoth]

Actually half the original group has already quit. None of them did so dramatically though, they just stopped showing up or answering the DM's calls, a luxury I don't have.


Remind me, what exactly is preventing you from telling this guy that you are no longer interested in gaming with him?


IIRC he plays in another group that has that DM as a player and he doesn't want to jeopardize the second (better) group.

Talakeal has to play in Campaign A in order to be able to play in Campaign B?

That sounds like a pretty steep "tax" to have to pay just to get a seat at a table.

It also sounds entirely unenforceable.

[Keltest]

Talakeal has to play in Campaign A in order to be able to play in Campaign B?

That sounds like a pretty steep "tax" to have to pay just to get a seat at a table.

It also sounds entirely unenforceable.

Indeed. If his terribad DM cannot comport himself appropriately at another gaming table, that is on the terribad DM, not on Talakeal.

[ShaneMRoth]

Indeed. If his terribad DM cannot comport himself appropriately at another gaming table, that is on the terribad DM, not on Talakeal.

I wonder if the terribad DM is a relative...

[Shackel]

We are not allowed to modify or take home our character sheets, or look at anyone's sheet but his own.

When we level up we tell him what we want, and then he levels up the characters after we go home and USUALLY gives us the skills / feats that we have chosen.

You know, I was at least not hating the idea of it... until this came up. How does that even make sense? Surely, after the beginning of the game, your characters would learn what they want to learn!

[Threadnaught]

We are not allowed to modify or take home our character sheets, or look at anyone's sheet but his own.

When we level up we tell him what we want, and then he levels up the characters after we go home and USUALLY gives us the skills / feats that we have chosen.

*Doggy pile!*

Yeah, that's kinda dumb. Your DM seems pretty bad, though I've had a habit of hinting at the better option and away from the stupid option a Player is selecting. I won't fill in their Character Sheets until I have absolute confirmation.

[ekarney]

Sure, but on the the following conditions

The DM rolls them as an array for the whole party. So we all have the same numbers to choose from

And secondly, I get to choose where my numbers go. As do the rest of the party.

[ShaneMRoth]

Sure, but on the the following conditions

The DM rolls them as an array for the whole party. So we all have the same numbers to choose from

And secondly, I get to choose where my numbers go. As do the rest of the party.

A strong point, this.

It is well within the DM's discretion to decide on some sort of coherent character generation system.

Even if the players don't think the system is perfect, that system should be "fair" in that each player is given the same level of individual influence on character creation.

The notion of a system in which a character's stats are imposed upon the player... outside of the context of a tournament...? I just don't know...

This entire approach to character creation implies a lack of trust on the part of the DM described in the OP.

I believe that the players must place a great deal of trust in the DM in order for the game to work.

But this trust needs to be reciprocated.

If the DM from the OP is unwilling to trust the players with such a routine level of control of their own characters, I wonder what other trust issues might be impacting game play?

[Extra Anchovies]

But if Talakeal ditches his awful DM, we'll never get to hear any more of his stories about how awful that DM is!

Really though, if you leaving the group the DM is DM for effects the group that the DM is a player in, that's on the DM.

[AzraelX]

My DM takes this one step further. He asks you what you want to play, and then he makes a character for you. He keeps your character concept in mind, but only as a suggestion, and changes whatever he sees fit. This includes both crunchy mechanics as well as fluff like appearance, background, and name.

We are not allowed to modify or take home our character sheets, or look at anyone's sheet but his own.

When we level up we tell him what we want, and then he levels up the characters after we go home and USUALLY gives us the skills / feats that we have chosen.
This is possibly the most absurd thing I've ever heard in my entire life.


Talakeal has to play in Campaign A in order to be able to play in Campaign B?

That sounds like a pretty steep "tax" to have to pay just to get a seat at a table.

It also sounds entirely unenforceable.
Yeah. Under those conditions, you couldn't pay me to play in that campaign. I don't care if Campaign B is so good that they pass around the Elixir of Immortality during the game and thus everyone who participates gets to live forever, that'd just mean you also have an eternity of being subjected to the whims of a DM with serious control issues.


Remind me, what exactly is preventing you from telling this guy that you are no longer interested in gaming with him?
Nothing, and that's a game worth quitting if there ever was one. "I actually have something else planned today, sorry." Then go to the beach, to the library, for a walk, wherever. If there are consequences, just deal with them as they come; don't shy away from them and subject yourself to unfair/unfun/unreasonable treatment, because you're doing yourself a huge disservice.

[Sagetim]

This is possibly the most absurd thing I've ever heard in my entire life.


Yeah. Under those conditions, you couldn't pay me to play in that campaign. I don't care if Campaign B is so good that they pass around the Elixir of Immortality during the game and thus everyone who participates gets to live forever, that'd just mean you also have an eternity of being subjected to the whims of a DM with serious control issues.


Nothing, and that's a game worth quitting if there ever was one. "I actually have something else planned today, sorry." Then go to the beach, to the library, for a walk, wherever. If there are consequences, just deal with them as they come; don't shy away from them and subject yourself to unfair/unfun/unreasonable treatment, because you're doing yourself a huge disservice.

Really? Are you sure this is the most absurd thing you've ever heard? I mean, you've had an account for these forums for longer than I have...And I think Marty the time warping mind flayer with silver hair and katanas kind of takes the cake on the absurd.

To be clear, I'm just being silly.

I think it's fair to say that we want to know what the DM's reasoning for retaining such an unorthodox level of control over the player's sheets is. I could understand a DM saying 'no, you don't get to look at eachother's sheets because that can lead to too much ooc bleedover'. I could understand, if the players were given forewarning, having an experimental campaign where you roll stats in order and pick your class after that. I could even understand having the DM gen most of the character and hand you a background, under the idea that most of your characters formative years were not under their own control.

But once play starts, the players are supposed to have, what was the term...Agency? over their own actions. The players determine what their characters do, and should bear in mind background information and quirks and so on. But it's still up to the players to play the characters. This follows through in the form of players determining what classes they get at each level up, what skills they invest in, what feats they pick up, and so on. The way 3.5 is written, that also includes picking up wizard spells known and such. Even if you wanted to do a 2nd ed flashback campaign with 3.5 rules, you would probably not remove the 2 spells per level a wizard picks up. And if you did something like that, you would have to a) give the players a heads up that such a rule is in effect, and b) adopt some of the other quirks of 2nd edition to help balance the fact that you just stole a lot of player agency from wizard players, such as having the completion of magic items Award xp instead of Cost xp, or allowing players to earn xp for actions that jive with their class's purpose (such as clerics casting divine spells to further their god's agenda, fighters getting killing blows, thieves stealing ****, and wizards getting xp for learning new spells and furthering their understanding of magic).

Anyway, I'm going to stop here before I got more rambly.

[Threadnaught]

There is some value to how Talakeal's DM handles character development and advancement.
For a few levels, not too many though. Players can be given a Character that, like in Vagrant Story, doesn't grow more powerful by learning new abilities, but by remembering them.

It'd only work for a handful of levels if at all, before the PCs reconcile with their past and look to the future.

It could make an interesting game for anyone wanting to run or play it.

[BWR]

Talakeal's misfortune with games is fast becoming legendary around these parts. To the point where I wonder why he even bothers anymore. No gaming is better than bad gaming, unless you thrive on those horrible experiences and the opportunity to recount them at a later date.

To the OP, I'd consider that highly unusual and probably unnecessarily controlling. Simply witnessing the rolls should be enough. Then again, I'm a big proponent of rolling stats and love doing so. OTOH, if the DM has a very specific set-up and setting in mind I can see pregen characters being a useful short-cut, especially for new players, and setting certain limits on advancement is just business as usual. However, rolling stats but allowing everything else to be player determined kind of fails in that case. Assigning scores to make whatever build they want work better is a far better idea, and may be what the DM has in mind. Say you want to play something terrible and terribly MAD like a monk/paladin. Well, here you go, straight 18s. You want to play a druid? here you go, Wis 15 and everything else 9. But actually rolling this will not work if that's the idea.

[lord_khaine]

Another option that i think has not been considered so far, is that the GM is old fashioned enough to not hold with that newly fashion "point buy stuff"
But at the same time wishes the chance to discretely adjust bad rolls, so there isnt anyone who suddenly ends up with completely useless stats.

[AvatarVecna]

Whether this stat generation method is borne of a desire for control, balance, or deterring cheating optimizers, it still comes down a simple fact: there is either a better, less suspicious way of achieving his goals, or his goals are less than benign. Whether your DM's attempt to achieve his goals is due to ignorance or malicious, however, the result remains the same: you have less say in your character than you did before, and you have no idea how he came to give you the stats you have. It could be fair, it could be biased as hell; it could randomly generated, point buy, or DM's choice based on your character concept. Oh yeah, and not getting to choose how your character advances is complete cow poo. Furthermore, your presence in a game this guy is running (or the lack thereof) either has no effect on the other game the two of you are in, or it does, but that's not on you. You are not responsible for this DM's choices in another game, even if they specifically say it's on you.

Come on, say it with me: no gaming is better than bad gaming. Hell, it's not even "no gaming", because you've still got the other game.

[darksolitaire]

I guess DM rolling for PC stats in PBP games with people he doesn't know well is acceptable.

[Earthwalker]

This is not normal but normality is not inherently valuable.

However I would need to know the DM has a good reason for this. Otherwise it would bug me (arbitrary decisions that add nothing and detract some bug me).

Basically this. Even now I am wanting the OP to say he spoke to the GM and the GM gave the reason of X.

I just want to know what is gained from the GM rolling dice in secret as opposed to the players rolling in the open or the GM rolling in the open.

I would play in this game but I would be asking. Why this rule is in place ?

[Earthwalker]

My DM takes this one step further. He asks you what you want to play, and then he makes a character for you. He keeps your character concept in mind, but only as a suggestion, and changes whatever he sees fit. This includes both crunchy mechanics as well as fluff like appearance, background, and name.

I have a nice pasive-aggresive streak (always good for role playing) I would be so empted to answer any question by this GM on what my character is doing with.

"I don't know its your character you tell me".

Then sit back and watch as the GM plays with himself. (Wrong)

[Amphetryon]

I have been this DM. The game was set up in a public space, and I had been asked to run for an indeterminate number of Players who might show up if I agreed to start running a game. I didn't want to have the first session be "[Amphetryon] runs desperately around the room trying to verify point buy totals, help everyone build Characters, and explain rules to new Players all at the same time."

[NomGarret]

I have been this DM. The game was set up in a public space, and I had been asked to run for an indeterminate number of Players who might show up if I agreed to start running a game. I didn't want to have the first session be "[Amphetryon] runs desperately around the room trying to verify point buy totals, help everyone build Characters, and explain rules to new Players all at the same time."

Sure. There is a time and a place for pre-gen characters, and that's it. What's curious is why a DM would just secretly, and possibly individually, roll a stat array, but then presumably hand off the rest of char gen.

[danzibr]

Roll up the DMG and whack him in the head.

[JNAProductions]

Roll up the DMG and whack him in the head.

An impressive feat with a hardcover book.

[LoyalPaladin]

An impressive feat with a hardcover book.
If he can do that, imagine how hard he could hit the DM...

[Trasilor]

So much of this sounds like lazy DMing.

The lazy DM doesn't want people picking feats/skills that would require him to change his campaign. Instead, he ensures that the feats/skills/abilities picked up by the players at specific points will allow them to overcome his pre-planned adventure.

Essentially, they want to play a video game from the 'other side'. In (old school non MMO) video games, players receive new powers/gear/what-have-you at just the right time to defeat the challenge ahead.

Basically, instead of crafting encounters around the players abilities (or just crafting challenging encounters) they craft the characters around their adventure.


The only time I have ever made a character for a player is when they were new. And even then, I presented several options to the player and they selected the ones they wanted.

[danzibr]

An impressive feat with a hardcover book.

If he can do that, imagine how hard he could hit the DM...
In my head I was picturing Popeye arms.

[Telonius]

To the OP ... that would definitely be very, very weird outside of tournaments. Handing out pregenerated characters just to show people completely new to the game is one thing. Using that for an existing group is something else.

This wouldn't necessarily stop me from playing, but I'd want to know from the DM why they're doing this, and why (for example) they're not using arrays or point buy. Depending on how that question gets answered, I might not join that group. "Point buy? What's that?" might be an acceptable answer; a less-experienced DM is something I can work with. But a DM with a dictatorial attitude is not something I'm going to waste my time on.

[Elkad]

An impressive feat with a hardcover book.

My 1e PHB is rollable. It was a hardcover when I was in Jr High, and it still technically has the covers, but they have become rather malleable. I remember some time after I got out of the Army (so early 90s) I stopped using the front cover as a writing surface for my character sheet, because it was like trying to use a sponge as a clipboard. The back cover eventually ended up the same way. My MM and DMG aren't a whole lot better.