Build Help for Fighter/Cleric

[BranMan]

Hello,

In Adventurer's League, I recently started playing a fighter/cleric. I currently have one level in each. V. Human for polearm master, dueling style, shield, quarterstaff, nature domain for shillelagh, for that sweet 1d8 + 1d4 + 10 damage a turn if both attacks hit. Yesterday I got to level three, and I'm not sure where to put the next level. If I go cleric, I get two very circumstantial abilities, turn undead and charm plants and animals. If I go fighter, I get action surge, which could let me toss a guiding bolt for 4d6, then move up and attack with advantage on the d8 and hit for about 31 damage if they all hit. Not bad for level 3. However, if I continue with Fighter, it will delay cleric progression by a good bit.

So here's my question: should I take most of my levels in Fighter, or cleric? It would definitely be nice to get a bunch of healing and be a spellcaster in addition to being a competent melee tank, but fighter levels could get me a martial archetype and an extra attack or two. Alternatively, I could re-build my character to take Magic Initiate at level 4 fighter and lose the cleric levels, and take shillelagh through that.

Are there many good cleric spells for a melee combatant? Clearly bless is always nice, and things like protection from evil and blindness can be helpful, but not many (lower level) cleric spells really stand out to me that much.

Any help is much appreciated!

[WickerNipple]

Are there many good cleric spells for a melee combatant? Clearly bless is always nice, and things like protection from evil and blindness can be helpful, but not many (lower level) cleric spells really stand out to me that much.


The typical cleric low level spell combo is Spiritual Weapon + Spirit Guardians.

[tieren]

If I were you I would try to get to level 5 with one of the classes and then level the other to level 5 and take it from there.

If you are going to be staying a melee combatant taking 13 levels in fighter (EK) to get 3rd level evocation spells can be nice and the shield spell will be your friend along the way, between that and spiritual weapon/spirit guardians you'd be all set (and get 3 attacks after fighter 11, plus the spiritual weapon attack on the bonus action). Maybe pick tempest cleric for more combat effects.

cleric 7/ EK 13

[Ardantis]

Even if you're just dipping fighter, I would still go for at least one more level to get action surge. After that, it looks like your stats are optimized for spellcasting (high wis). I'd honestly go straight cleric after the one more fighter level- action surge benefits spellcasting as much as weapon combat, and you'll only be behind one spell level.

[KorvinStarmast]

Yesterday I got to level three, and I'm not sure where to put the next level.

If I go cleric, I get two very circumstantial abilities, turn undead and charm plants and animals.
If I go fighter, I get action surge, which could let me toss a guiding bolt for 4d6, then move up and attack with advantage on the d8 and hit for about 31 damage if they all hit. Not bad for level 3.

Are there many good cleric spells for a melee combatant?
Clearly bless is always nice, and things like protection from evil and blindness can be helpful, but not many (lower level) cleric spells really stand out to me that much.
Bless: boosts Party DPR and party saves.
That is goodness right there. Your objective: keep making that concentration save!

As to how to answer the question: Who else is in your party? How big is it?
Do you expect to encounter undead?

Nice feature of turn undead:
It breaks up a mob, keeps ghouls away from your party and thus less chance to get paralyzed, It recharges after a short rest.

If you don't expect to encounter undead, consider how good this second level spell is: Lesser Restoration.
As you go up in level and monster CR increases, Lesser Restoration has some benefits the keeps your party members in a fight.

You touch a creature and can end either one disease or one condition afflicting it. The condition can be blinded, deafened, paralyzed, or poisoned. While that may not seem like you getting a power boost, your party keeps its damage dealer hitting on all cylinders rather than losing one when a save is missed.

In a small party, that's a considerable benefit.

If I have misunderstood your question, sorry. Currently playing a cleric.

Another serious damage dealing spell is Inflict Wounds. On a hit, the damage is non trivial.

Make a melee spell attack against a creature you can reach. On a hit, the target takes 3d10 necrotic damage. At Higher Levels. When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 2nd level or higher, the damage increases by 1d10 for each slot level above 1st. Normally, for a spell attack, your proficiency and your Wis bonus is included in your attack rolls, and your Wis bonus is included in your damage rolls.
3d10 + wis bonus. Not a bad smack to the face, but it does cost a spell.

What would I do? Hard to say, as I don't know your group's composition.

If you really like action surge, take 2d level Ftr. Hard to argue against the benefit of that particular skill. I'd then proceed to Cleric 4 for ASI or feat addition. Then reassess: another cleric or begin to boost fighter? If you are the sole tank, the latter might be the better choice.

There are some decent spells at 2d level that help in a lot of ways: remember that keeping your party in the fight keeps the party DPR up.

Alternately, slipperychicken's point about ASI and DC increase is very good advice.

My motto for playing cleric: it's not all about me.

[Slipperychicken]

If I were you I would try to get to level 5 with one of the classes and then level the other to level 5 and take it from there.


Seconding this. If you take Cleric to 5, you can have an "extra attack" for 3d8 by keeping up Spirit Guardians. It also makes it a lot harder for enemies to get past you or run away.

Also, I think you'll want a wisdom ASI at character level 5 (fighter 1/ cleric 4), as that governs both your attacks and your save DCs.

If you don't yet know which fighter subclass you want, I'm thinking champion (19-20 crit range) or EK (shield, expeditious retreat, maybe find familiar).

[PotatoGolem]

Normally, for a spell attack, your proficiency and your Wis bonus is included in your attack rolls, and your Wis bonus is included in your damage rolls.
3d10 + wis bonus. Not a bad smack to the face, but it does cost a spell.



While I agree with a lot of what you said, this isn't true. You only add your spellcasting mod to damage if you have a particular class feature that allows you to do so (Agonizing Blast, 6th level dragon sorc, 10th level Evoker). IIRC, Clerics don't get a way to add Wis to anything other than cantrips.

[Yorrin]

For a Fighter/Nature Cleric good drop points include:

Fighter 2- Action Surge
Fighter 5- Second Attack
Fighter 11- Third Attack

Cleric 8- Divine Strike
Cleric 17- 9th level spells

So I'd look at a Fighter 11/Cleric 9 or Fighter 2/Cleric 18 personally.

[ZenBear]

The best way to do Fighter/Cleric, IMO, is F6>C4>F12>C8. Get your first extra attack and two ASIs, then start picking up spells until your 3rd ASI from Cleric. Then pick up two more ASIs and another extra attack from F12 and finish up Cleric for more spells, a 6th ASI and Divine Strike.

I don't know how spell casting levels stack but EK might be your best bet if you really want those 5th level slots. Otherwise BM or Champ both work just fine.

[Yorrin]

I don't know how spell casting levels stack but EK might be your best bet if you really want those 5th level slots. Otherwise BM or Champ both work just fine.

You get 1/3 of your EK levels added onto your Cleric level, essentially. So an EK 3/Cleric 4 has spell slots as a 5th level Cleric, but only access to 2nd level cleric spells and 1st level EK spells.

[ZenBear]

You get 1/3 of your EK levels added onto your Cleric level, essentially. So an EK 3/Cleric 4 has spell slots as a 5th level Cleric, but only access to 2nd level cleric spells and 1st level EK spells.

So you would count as Cleric 12 for slots with 4th level Cleric spells and I think 2nd level EK spells in my build?

[Yorrin]

So you would count as Cleric 12 for slots with 4th level Cleric spells and I think 2nd level EK spells in my build?

EK 12/Cleric 8?

correct

[PoeticDwarf]

If I were you I would try to get to level 5 with one of the classes and then level the other to level 5 and take it from there.

If you are going to be staying a melee combatant taking 13 levels in fighter (EK) to get 3rd level evocation spells can be nice and the shield spell will be your friend along the way, between that and spiritual weapon/spirit guardians you'd be all set (and get 3 attacks after fighter 11, plus the spiritual weapon attack on the bonus action). Maybe pick tempest cleric for more combat effects.

cleric 7/ EK 13

Cleric 8 gives some extra damage, and he goes melee as he said. 8/12 sounds stronger for me, and otherwise 9/11 for lv. 5 spells (contagion!)

[Citan]

Seconding this. If you take Cleric to 5, you can have an "extra attack" for 3d8 by keeping up Spirit Guardians. It also makes it a lot harder for enemies to get past you or run away.

Also, I think you'll want a wisdom ASI at character level 5 (fighter 1/ cleric 4), as that governs both your attacks and your save DCs.

If you don't yet know which fighter subclass you want, I'm thinking champion (19-20 crit range) or EK (shield, expeditious retreat, maybe find familiar).
Thirding this, probably the safest way to go.
Action Surge is great but as long as you have only one attack and very few spell slots, it's just a nice bonus either way. Going Cleric 5 first gives you more spell slots and versatility to be either better at buffing or at damaging.
Only reason to start with Fighter would be going Fighter 6 to max ASI earlier. Good plan only if you really have poor WIS.
If you can get at least to 18 WIS with one ASI, Cleric 5 all the way.

As for the final balance, I'd say don't think too much about now unless you're sure of your playstyle. You'll have plenty of time to think about it (especially since you'll probably choose how to level depending on how your allies grow up too). :)
With that said, a classic build is Fighter 11 / Cleric 9: expert at none but good at all (3 attacks in Attack, Action Surge, spells up to lvl5 and decent spell slots reserve). Or Fighter 12 / Cleric 8 if you really need two other ASI/Feats.


If you are going to be staying a melee combatant taking 13 levels in fighter (EK) to get 3rd level evocation spells can be nice and the shield spell will be your friend along the way, between that and spiritual weapon/spirit guardians you'd be all set (and get 3 attacks after fighter 11, plus the spiritual weapon attack on the bonus action). Maybe pick tempest cleric for more combat effects.
cleric 7/ EK 13
Disagree on going to lvl13 for a melee combattant, wholeheartedly agree on everything else. Especially for this build, the Eldricht Strike at lvl 10 will be greatly useful (and for me justifies in itself going at least 10 in Fighter). Guidance yourself > Hit BBEG with a weapon attack > Banish or Contagion > one less dangerous enemy to worry about. :)

[Ramshack]

3 Fighter - Second Wind, All Armor /Weapon Proficiencies, Action Surge, Fighting Style, Battlemaneuvers or 19-20 Crit Range

17 Cleric - War, Tempest are good choices, possibly light for more blasty options.

[Ramshack]

3 Fighter - Second Wind, All Armor /Weapon Proficiencies, Action Surge, Fighting Style, Battle maneuvers or 19-20 Crit Range

17 Cleric - War, Tempest are good choices, possibly light for more blasty options. 9th level spells.

[KorvinStarmast]

While I agree with a lot of what you said, this isn't true. You only add your spellcasting mod to damage if you have a particular class feature that allows you to do so (Agonizing Blast, 6th level dragon sorc, 10th level Evoker). IIRC, Clerics don't get a way to add Wis to anything other than cantrips. We will disagree for the moment. Spell attack that requires a dice roll to hit includes prof and wis bonus. Spell damage from spell attack that requires a dice roll to hitadds the wis bonus to dmg bonus as well, just as a fighter's dmg bonus does from str .. <That's the distinction.

As you say, the general case for spell attacks as spells, that don't require a die roll "to hit," do not grant the Wis bonus. (IIRC, light cleric with Sacred flame does get that bonus ... )

I'll get the cite from PHB when I am near the books. (If what I am saying is our DM's home brew ... I'll need to clarify that).

EDIT: Hmm, the .pdf I have of the basic rules seems to bear out your point. Will follow up with PHB reference. Looks like it's a home brew.

Thanks for raising that point.

It can, however, crit! See this month's sage advice. :smallbiggrin:

Can spell attacks score critical hits? A spell attack can definitely score a critical hit. The rule on critical hits applies to attack rolls of any sort.

@Citan:
Good points on getting to cleric 5, since third level spells are a substantial boost in goodness with such things as remove curse, dispel magic, and some interesting domain spells. (Tempest gets Call lightning, which can be quite the smackdown if the concentration saves are made during a fight).

[ZenBear]

IIRC spells never add spellcasting modifier to damage unless explicitly stated in the spell description or through a class feature.

[Citan]

3 Fighter - Second Wind, All Armor /Weapon Proficiencies, Action Surge, Fighting Style, Battlemaneuvers or 19-20 Crit Range

17 Cleric - War, Tempest are good choices, possibly light for more blasty options.
Too bad, OP already went Nature Cleric 1.
Also, I agree that War (from +10 to attack roll to plain resistance to physical) and Tempest (max one thunder/lightning spell, wings) provide nice abilities beyond proficiencies and 2d6/turn bonus damage.

But these two are clearly spellcaster builds. Your Attack is only 1 powerful attack (weapon+2d8), so mainly a "I have nothing better to do" ability.

F11/C9 provides on par attack with many classes, action economy flexibility with bonus action attack after cantrip, and more importantly an enemy at disadvantage against next spell on any hit. Or casting a cantrip and making an attack in the same turn.
Seems to synergize pretty well with Contagion, Banishment, Hold Person, Bestow Curse...): weapon attack empowers your spell which in turn empowers your weapon attacks. :)


@Citan:
Good points on getting to cleric 5, since third level spells are a substantial boost in goodness with such things as remove curse, dispel magic, and some interesting domain spells. (Tempest gets Call lightning, which can be quite the smackdown if the concentration saves are made during a fight).
Thanks, although I was just emphasizing the goodness of Slipperychicken's description of Cleric 5 benefit, continuing on Tieren's initial (wise) advice. :)

[rhouck]

Too bad, OP already went Nature Cleric 1.

It's AL so he can change that if he wants. Not like a home game where you have to ask permission from the DM.

[Ramshack]

3 Fighter 17 Cleric is definitely a more caster oriented build. I was merely offering an alternative to the more melee oriented builds being suggested. You can still make strong melee attacks and use your bonus action for spiritual weapon. Your melee attacks are much stronger than your cantrip option would otherwise be. Plus a full host of cleric spells for when you need them.