I feel like making a 40k terminator

[Brookshw]

For those unfamiliar with 40k, we're talking about armor/weapons/gear used by a bioengineered super soldier whose primary purpose is fighting. The iconic armor itself is among the best available only used by honored warriors (well, and traitor legion heretics). Features include:
Increasing strength
Medical response + stimulants that get pumped into the wearer
All sorts of vision enhancement
(some versions) teleportation

Default armaments are a power fist and storm bolter (dual barreled machine gun with explosive rounds).
Alternative armaments, giant flame thrower, plasma cannon, minigun thing, back mounted missle launchers, power sword, chainsaw fists, claws, hammers and shields.

Assume wbl appropriate for a 10th level character. Any WoTC content is fine.

So what would you use to match this? Bonus points for working out a space marine, double points for using fluff that matches wh40k lore.

[Deadline]

Let's see. Mechanically, you could use the Magitech Templar homebrew that's floating around here somewhere. Alternatively you could go with, say, a Dwarf Crusader 2/Wizard (Maybe a Conjurer) 3/Runesmith 1/Jade Phoenix Mage 10/Runesmith +4. The healing maneuvers from Devoted Spirit and Delayed Damage Pool from Crusader give you that auto-healing/toughness factor, you're carting around heavy armor, blasting enemies with nasty spells, you can teleport, and you've got a quasi-religious warrior culture character who from a fluff perspective is an elite warrior, is highly respected, and is effectively bedecked in mystical runes of power (which are easy enough to fluff as purity seals). You might be able to replace the Wizard and Runesmith levels with Artificer, if your GM allows infusions to count as spellcasting.

[Brookshw]

Let's see. Mechanically, you could use the Magitech Templar homebrew that's floating around here somewhere. Alternatively you could go with, say, a Dwarf Crusader 2/Wizard (Maybe a Conjurer) 3/Runesmith 1/Jade Phoenix Mage 10/Runesmith +4. The healing maneuvers from Devoted Spirit and Delayed Damage Pool from Crusader give you that auto-healing/toughness factor, you're carting around heavy armor, blasting enemies with nasty spells, you can teleport, and you've got a quasi-religious warrior culture character who from a fluff perspective is an elite warrior, is highly respected, and is effectively bedecked in mystical runes of power (which are easy enough to fluff as purity seals). You might be able to replace the Wizard and Runesmith levels with Artificer, if your GM allows infusions to count as spellcasting.

Interesting build and I could see it. Kinda makes me think librarian terminator with the spell caster chasis. I'm not not sure how to tackle gear though. Vaguely recall explosive ammo which could work with a heavy repeater for the bolter though we'd need to crack the attack speed. Not really sure how to do the default power fist. A battlefist was my first though but requires warforged (though that's sort of appropriate with the whole created soldier bit, just loses points for non-organic). Refluffed staves and wand chambers could probably work for a few things maybe. Not really sure how possible this would be with wbl of a 10th. Hmmm....

[Sayt]

Generally speaking, I think Dark Heresy/Deathwatch/Black Crusade are better for representing Terminators, as they're 'native' to the rules system and within the intended tech spectrum.

That being said! I feel a Storm Bolter would probably be something like a Flaming Burst repeating double crossbow, with armour they lets you ignore 1handing crossbow penalties.

A magical battlefist seems about right for a Power fist. A Thunder Hammer is probably a Warhammer, maybe with PF's Impact quality (I don't know if 3.5 has an analogue, but if it doesn't it should be compatible). Daemonhammers are probably Holy [Chaotic Outsider] Bane Minotaur Greathammers.

Power weapons are...probably unfortunately modeled as Brilliant Energy Weapons.

Heavy Flamer is probably a staff or rod with Blast of Flame.

Tactical Dreadnaught armour.... I can't remember the specific name, but there was a suit of ****-heavy armour in Races of Stone. Mountain or Battle Plate, I think? IIRC it does require a feat which prereq's Dwarf.

[dascarletm]

Interesting build and I could see it. Kinda makes me think librarian terminator with the spell caster chasis. I'm not not sure how to tackle gear though. Vaguely recall explosive ammo which could work with a heavy repeater for the bolter though we'd need to crack the attack speed. Not really sure how to do the default power fist. A battlefist was my first though but requires warforged (though that's sort of appropriate with the whole created soldier bit, just loses points for non-organic). Refluffed staves and wand chambers could probably work for a few things maybe. Not really sure how possible this would be with wbl of a 10th. Hmmm....

For the battlefist, obtain a way to wield a larger gauntlet as your weapon, and use a wand chamber of Greater Mighty Wallop. Activating the Wand is turning on the power field.

For Armor, use mechanus armor as your base, and make it intelligent. That makes it pricey, but you have to start somewhere.

[Deadline]

Interesting build and I could see it. Kinda makes me think librarian terminator with the spell caster chasis. I'm not not sure how to tackle gear though. Vaguely recall explosive ammo which could work with a heavy repeater for the bolter though we'd need to crack the attack speed. Not really sure how to do the default power fist. A battlefist was my first though but requires warforged (though that's sort of appropriate with the whole created soldier bit, just loses points for non-organic). Refluffed staves and wand chambers could probably work for a few things maybe. Not really sure how possible this would be with wbl of a 10th. Hmmm....

The idea would be to duplicate the ranged weaponry with spells (burning hands or energy substituted cone of cold for the flamethrower, fireball for the missile launcher, etc.), but in the case of the bolter you could probably get by with a hand crossbow with the Splitting enchantment on it, plus something else to replicate the explosive nature (Flaming Burst was already mentioned). But terminators mostly shine in melee. To replicate the powerfist, you could just use a Gauntlet or Spiked Gauntlet with the enchantments of your choice (and Greater Mighty Wallop as one of your spells). At higher levels, the base weapon damage die is less important than the modifiers you add.

[atemu1234]

There are armor symbionts in Dragon Magazine, if I am not mistaken.

[Brookshw]

Some great suggestions gang, thanks for the ideas. Definitely a good call to use flaming burst instead for the bolter but I'm drawing a blank on a dual crossbow, jog my memory? Splitting would definitely help and we've some good suggestions on the power fist, I especially like the turning it on by activating the wand chamber idea, fits the fluff very well.

How do you crank up the attack speed on the bolter to get the autocannon though?

Good point on brilliant energy for power weapons. I was originally thinking force but BE does seem to fit better.

I suppose something to let you count as large might also make sense, they are pretty freaking huge. Powerful build or something perhaps.

Toss in some kythons and now we're playing space hulk!


Generally speaking, I think Dark Heresy/Deathwatch/Black Crusade are better for representing Terminators, as they're 'native' to the rules system and within the intended tech spectrum.


True but its always fun to see what you can do with D&D's toolbox :smallbiggrin: someone did do a kinda interesting and large d20 40k version but that wouldn't be as much fun.

[Sagetim]

I'm kind of surprised that no one has suggested using a warforged fighter/juggernaut and components to replicate what you're aiming for. I know they have a bow component that can shoot magical bolts at the cost of hp (which I think is frankly dumb, it shouldn't cost hp to fire it). I can't quite recall, maybe it has 20 shots per day before it starts costing hp? Anyway...

You would be going with some kind of optimizing cheese to get oversized weapon proficiency or something like it, then getting an oversized armbow (or whatever it's called) installed, then proceed to mow things down with said armbow. The Collision enhancement from Expanded Psionics would be good for a raw +5 damage, while Screaming for +1d6 sonic damage would help represent the explosive impact of the shots while ignoring most elemental resistances.

Enlarge person shenanigans could net you some extra size category for damage dice shenanigans, and rapid reload would probably be enough to get your full normal attacks per round with the arm bow. Tack on rapid shot for extra attacks per round.

If you want a shotgun, then get Manyshot and Greater Manyshot (another Expanded Psionics Handbook thing, in this case a general feat). You might want to vary the build up a little though, since greater manyshot allows you to apply precision damage to all of your attacks with it (so, mmmm, mmm, sneak attack/sudden strike/skirmish/etc).

Other shenanigans to boost your ranged attacking damage would include psionic shot and greater psionic shot, while replicating force blades would be easier done as ghost touch screaming weapons.

There's probably some kind of sundering shenanigan to let you sunder a target's armor and also hit them for damage in one blow. That would probably more accurately represent the rending power of a force weapon than the 'ignores armor but doesn't damage it' aspect of a Brilliant Energy weapon.

There's bound to be a weapon enhancement somewhere that adds force damage to your weapon, slap that onto the component bow for more middle fingers at things with resistances. You could also grab 1d4 ectoplasmic damage from another expanded psionics handbook weapon enhancement that I can't quite remember the name of. Ectoplasmic? Whatever. Ectoplasm damage may as well be untyped for what few things actually have resistance to it.

[Mr Adventurer]

Clockwork armour (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cw/20070212a), with two Oil Chambers (Dungeonscape). Make it +1, give it the lowest Intelligence level with the lesser power to CMW, 10 ranks in Spot, or continual Deathwatch depending on whether you're more interested in the medical abilities or sensors.

I may have thought about this a little bit.

Other magic items that can be said to be a part of the same suit: boots, bracers, belt, gauntlets, helmet. Spread the love around the slots, it's easier and cheaper.

Your Vest of Resistance is your Black Carapace.

EDIT: I second the Battlefist+wand chamber with wand of Greater Mighty Wallop. Battlefist alone doesn't do the Power Fist justice. To get the most out of GMW though you're going to need a wand with a high caster level, which makes it ruddy expensive. Possibly play a class that can just learn and cast GMW instead...

[Mr Adventurer]

Storm Bolter could be a Rod of Wands (that one from Eberron where you can activate multiple wands) with wands of Scorching Ray

[Brookshw]

. You could also grab 1d4 ectoplasmic damage from another expanded psionics handbook weapon enhancement that I can't quite remember the name of. Ectoplasmic? Whatever. Ectoplasm damage may as well be untyped for what few things actually have resistance to it.

Lots of good thoughts, this one especially caught my eye as a potential basis for a plasma cannon if we could crank the damage high enough.

What caught your eye about the screaming property for power weapons? The general lack of resistances?


Storm Bolter could be a Rod of Wands (that one from Eberron where you can activate multiple wands) with wands of Scorching Ray

Sounds like a great way to do the flamer, especially if we wanted multiple settings for it. Good call on the vest for the black carpace and oil chambers. Now how do we work in the mag lock boots?

[Mr Adventurer]

Boots of the Mountain King?

[hamishspence]

For those unfamiliar with 40k, we're talking about armor/weapons/gear used by a bioengineered super soldier whose primary purpose is fighting.

And "ordinary" human inquisitors.

[Brookshw]

And "ordinary" human inquisitors.

Nothing says inquisition like showing up with giant armor and a flamer while screaming "burn the heretic" :smallwink:

[samduke]

For those unfamiliar with 40k, we're talking about armor/weapons/gear used by a bioengineered super soldier whose primary purpose is fighting. The iconic armor itself is among the best available only used by honored warriors (well, and traitor legion heretics). Features include:
Increasing strength
Medical response + stimulants that get pumped into the wearer
All sorts of vision enhancement
(some versions) teleportation

Default armaments are a power fist and storm bolter (dual barreled machine gun with explosive rounds).
Alternative armaments, giant flame thrower, plasma cannon, minigun thing, back mounted missle launchers, power sword, chainsaw fists, claws, hammers and shields.

Assume wbl appropriate for a 10th level character. Any WoTC content is fine.

So what would you use to match this? Bonus points for working out a space marine, double points for using fluff that matches wh40k lore.

all the comments are very interesting.. on this subject, I have a preference for the chainfist, assault cannon, cyclone missile launcher. terminator... at one point they were legal in the game think they have been nerfed now though.

[Brookshw]

all the comments are very interesting.. on this subject, I have a preference for the chainfist, assault cannon, cyclone missile launcher. terminator... at one point they were legal in the game think they have been nerfed now though.

Haven't played the tabletop since 2e and have no idea what's legal/nerfed now but if you have any thoughts on recreating/emulating them with D&D content I'm all ears. Maybe necklace of fireballs is a decent alternative for the missile launcher but it seems a bit underpowered comparatively.

[BWR]

The power armor (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/technologyGuide/armor.html) from PF's Technology Guide might work, even if it will not be anywhere as powerful as even a bog-standard SM, nevermind a Terminator. It is high tech and can be fixed with high tech gear.


If you can't have or don't want actual tech, a refluffed Aegis (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/classes/aegis)(with some minor modifications) might work, or an altered synthesist (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ultimateMagic/spellcastingClassOptions/summoner.html)summoner (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/advanced/baseClasses/summoner.html)

[Tvtyrant]

My suggestion is to make a 1/day persisted Body of War spell item to be a warforged titan, then rod of many wands on wands of launch item to launch explosives at the enemy.

[Brookshw]

My suggestion is to make a 1/day persisted Body of War spell item to be a warforged titan, then rod of many wands on wands of launch item to launch explosives at the enemy.

Now that you've said Titan I'm thinking about upping the ante to a, well, Titan (http://www.games-workshop.com/en-PL/Knight-Warden). Probably would need to dig into artificer wand-fu to emulate those armaments.

[Sagetim]

Since the first time I saw the screaming weapon property (which adds 1d6 sonic damage) it captured my heart as the kind of thing I would want to put on any weapon a character of mine would use. But yeah, the general lack of resistances to sonic damage, it's invisible nature, and the fact that it would make a lot of noise all help to simulate the loud and proud power of a bolter.

I can't recall if 3.5 has a feat for reloading a heavy crossbow as a free action. I know pathfinder does, but we're generally talking 3.5 here. Bearing this in mind, having rapid reload and basing your weapon on a light crossbow seems to be the way to go for machine gun type weapons. Flaming, Screaming, Collision (+5 physical damage for a +2 enhancement bonus), Ghost Touch, and +5 is probably what I would have on such a weapon when all was said and done. Which would give it a damage of: +5 to hit, 1d8+1d6 fire+1d6 sonic+10 damage (plus modifiers from the character and other gear. Greater Bracers of Archery would give a +1 to hit and +2 damage, I think).


Edit: For a titan, there's the warforged titan statted up in the ebberon campaign setting. It would just be a matter of arming it with different weapons if you wanted a rough analogue. You don't even necessarily need wands if you're willing to make it more thematically anagulous than requiring it to have damage output in the same ballpark. Some small catapults on it's back to hurl flasks of alchemist's fire, a ballista for one arm and a sized up screaming ghost touch sword sword in it's hand, and you have a magical murder machine ready to go.