How do you explain the connection between Elves, Humans and Orcs?

[ZenBear]

In my custom setting, Elves and Orcs are former Humans that long ago were transformed by competing powers into the divergent races they are, which is why they can interbreed with Humans and other races can't.

How do you justify the lack of half-dwarves, half-goliaths, three-quarterlings, etc?

[Malifice]

Legacy of Tolkien.

Orcs are strongly hinted as being elves twisted by Morgoth. Both they (and elves) can breed with Humans.

For no reason other than 'magic'. It's not like they share a common ancestor with humans (or even that evolution is even a thing in Middle Earth).

[GiantOctopodes]

In my setting, half dwarves, half gnomes, and quarterlings are absolutely all possible. You just don't normally see them, for reasons of attraction and the physical difficulties associated with the, ahem, process.

[VoxRationis]

Simple. Elves, orcs, and humans are all subspecies of the same species. Despite the superficially more human-like appearance of halflings, gnomes, or dwarves, they are divergent enough in morphology and physiology that they can't interbreed with humans. There could be any number of reasons why, from chromosomal incompatibility to histocompatibility problems which cause embryonic rejection, and none of those would really be apparent to a medieval observer except in the end result of "can breed" or "can't breed."
Interestingly, this raises the concept of an elf-orc hybrid. Now, it is not a given that population A and C can interbreed because A/B and C/B hybrids are possible (this is called a ring species), but it's a possibility. In one of my settings, I ruled that they exist but are very rare because elves and orcs are less compatible with each other than either are with humans, acknowledging their existence while explaining why they aren't in the player's guide. (In my other main setting, it's a non-issue because the orcs are extinct and have been for ten thousand years.)

[Nifft]

Humans are just an elf-orc hybrid.

[Coidzor]

Gruumsh and the Elven gods are opportunistic liars who kidnapped populations of proto-human humanoids to have their way with.

Zarus didn't spring from nothing, he was just one of the first modern humans to emerge from the sea of proto-humanity.

So Humans in D&D can reproduce with Elves and Orcs for the same reason that most Europeans contain some amount of Neanderthal DNA.

[1Forge]

In my setting Orcs are like Neanderthals to humans we shared an ancestor waaaay back and are barely comparable. Elves are kind of like watered down eladrin they used to be to fey to interbreed with humans but after hundreds of years somehow elves changed enough that they could interbreed with humans and create viable offspring. Halflings used to share an ancestor with humans and dwarves but diverted long ago, quarterlings are possible with either humans or dwarves but they are sterile and beardless. Most dwarves cannot create children with humans but some with a mutation can make infertile half dwarves. In dragonborn the dragon trait is dominant and always carries in humans elves and dwarves (nit halflings tho) yieflings and aaismar blood carries through dominantly. Eladrin can only interbreed with high elves and other eladrin (the eladrin has a 50% chance of carrying over fully and a 50% of making an elf/a half eladrin elf that has little to no eladrin traits)

Oh almost forgot gnomes! They are isolated interspecies wise pixies could genetically with gnomes but physically its impossible.

[Zevox]

How do you justify the lack of half-dwarves, half-goliaths, three-quarterlings, etc?
I'd presume they exist in extremely small quantities and it just never comes up because nobody playing the game has any interest in them being a thing.

[ZenBear]

I'd presume they exist in extremely small quantities and it just never comes up because nobody playing the game has any interest in them being a thing.

What if a player wants to be one? I always wanted to play a half-dwarf but outside of Dark Sun they aren't supported.

[Daishain]

What if a player wants to be one? I always wanted to play a half-dwarf but outside of Dark Sun they aren't supported.
Then come up with appropriate stats for a race that represents a little of dwarf and a little of (whatever else) This edition encourages DMs to make their own content, use and abuse as best fits your game.

As to the OP. In the D&D world, humanoid species can pretty much all breed together. It is weird, fascinating, and creepy all at once. human/elf and human/orc just happen to be the most common combinations for some reason.

Don't forget about the mongrelfolk, poor bastards don't have a clue how many species they're descended from.

[Kidbuu51]

I don't, every humaniod can bump uglies with others, sure they are out there, but unless my players ask for it I just don't bother, with humans in my campaign long dead and about 20 racial selections with subraces I think they are content.

[Zevox]

What if a player wants to be one? I always wanted to play a half-dwarf but outside of Dark Sun they aren't supported.
*shrug* Either refuse on the grounds that there aren't any stats for them, allow it using stats for something else re-fluffed, or homebrew it, whichever you prefer. I can't imagine it ever coming up with my group, though, so I don't see any reason to put much thought into it myself.

[Naanomi]

In my campaign, in the past all 'humany' races were 'closer' physically and spiritually (all being slave-races of various types to ancient djinn and Dragons) and could technically breed, but only elves and humans did so with regularity. Races moved apart and lost the ability to interbreed except elves/humans since most had some traces of the other bloodlines in their system; though truely purebred human and elf bloodlines would fail to breed.

Technically halflings can breed with other races (stouts with dwarves, lightfoot with elves) for the same reason, statted as just tall/short versions of the regular races. Some gnome/halfling or gnome/dwarf bloodlines might also exist.

Orcs are naturally opportunistic breeders, and half-orcs represent half-Orc/half-anything; usually breeding into Orc tribes until their other heritage is lost in the blend

[Fwiffo86]

I solve this by using the old Mystara mentality. There are no "half" races. The races cannot produce mixed offspring. They can certainly marry, and make with the physicality, but it will never produce children.

In 5e, we dropped the half-elf (not available as a choice). Renamed Half-orc to Orc.

[WickerNipple]

What if a player wants to be one? I always wanted to play a half-dwarf but outside of Dark Sun they aren't supported.

I've allowed Muls in other settings. I don't see the big deal.

[1Forge]

I've allowed Muls in other settings. I don't see the big deal.

yeah i usually just use the stats of one of the parent races.

[Coidzor]

I'd presume they exist in extremely small quantities and it just never comes up because nobody playing the game has any interest in them being a thing.

Somebody spoke too soon.

[Zevox]

Somebody spoke too soon.
The question was how you personally handle the matter. I've never had anybody I've played with express any interest in Half-Dwarves, Half-Halfings, etc, so that response is completely true for my situation.

[RazDelacroix]

In the setting I'm working on, I find myself having to answer this question in more than one way.


What Elves have to say: "The humans are a failed aspiration to faerie beauty. The orcs are a mistake to be swept clean."

What Humans have to say: "Elves are the Feywild's attempt at matching a human. Closest thing it can do. Orcs came from some wizard's attempt at making superior soldiers."

What Orcs have to say: "Elves stole our beauty! Humans stole our good think!" "Brains, you mean?" "That too!"


Fluff-wise, I do allow for half-whatevers within reason. Mechanics wise I recommend using one of the currently established races that is the closest match to whatever you're seeking to do. With the addition of making a note that you may gain an Advantage or Disadvantage in certain social situations when dealing with racial hatred or worse, racial imitators.

"What!? I thought all of your kind sparkle!"

"I'm a half-orc. We do not 'sparkle' in the sunlight."

[Knaight]

I generally don't use nonhumans anyways, but an obvious solution is that there are five distinct species, and the terms "half-elf" and "half-orc" are misnomers for species that superficially look like what you might expect a hybrid to look like.

[Nifft]

Another explanation idea:

- Elves and Dwarves are the same species. Elves are the females; Dwarves are the males*.

- Thus, a half-dwarf is the same (mechanically) as a half-elf. Just rarer, because nerd-girls who fantasize about dwarf-boys are less common than nerd-boys who fantasize about elf-girls.


*) This explains why the party elf and dwarf are usually bickering: it's because they're married.

[dropbear8mybaby]

In my custom setting, Elves and Orcs are former Humans that long ago were transformed by competing powers into the divergent races they are, which is why they can interbreed with Humans and other races can't.

How do you justify the lack of half-dwarves, half-goliaths, three-quarterlings, etc?

Wow... you've pretty much just described my homebrew setting.

I wanted to come up with a historical reason and rationalisation for all the stereotypical tropes of a traditional fantasy setting. One of the things that made this easier was having an orc nation and using the original alignment of orcs, that being lawful evil. I've styled the nation on a semi-roman inspired variant. There is a human nation which is semi-greek inspired who are the greatest sea-farers and traders. They have trade agreements with the orc nation and have had that in place for centuries. This trading nation is also known for its philosophers, mathematicians, etc. Orcs in their nation are considered nobility by birth and reign over lesser humanoid monster races like minotaurs, ogres, goblins, hobgoblins & bugbears. Humans native to the orc nation are actually the largest population but are all considered to have no rank in the strict caste system and are considered chattel. The trading human nation has scholars that are hired by the orcs to help them build things, teach their children. So most of the architecture is based on the human trading nation's style but perverted by orcish aesthetics.

The elves are another matter altogether...

[ZenBear]

Another explanation idea:

- Elves and Dwarves are the same species. Elves are the females; Dwarves are the males*.

- Thus, a half-dwarf is the same (mechanically) as a half-elf. Just rarer, because nerd-girls who fantasize about dwarf-boys are less common than nerd-boys who fantasize about elf-girls.


*) This explains why the party elf and dwarf are usually bickering: it's because they're married.

Hah! That's hilarious! 😆

[Jaredino]

There was one race, originally. All humanoids looked alike and had the same characteristics. These proto people did many of the same things as modern races, such as magic, swordplay, and smithing. However, particularly powerful (AKA high level, like lvl 20 and a few boons) humanoids passed on some of there unique characteristics through the bloodline (because magic), giving the descendants of these creatures features similar to their parents. A mighty spellcaster who mingled with the fey and was physically altered by his magic passes on his affinity with the arcane and his ears, a gift from the archfey. A delver of the deep with a passion of gold who used a magic gem to change his size to better explore the tunnels of the underworld passed on his stature and lust for treasure. A legendary wanderer, fitting in everywhere but staying nowhere, well traveled on more planes than one, passed down his wanderlust and curiosity (to many many many many mates, in many many many different places). A vicious warrior who embraced the feral beasts and his own wild nature to become an untouchable warrior, passing down his love for fighting and his hatred for the weak. I know genes don't work that way, but level 20+ characters are pretty much demigods so I figure normal rules don't apply.

[Dark Ass4ssin 1]

Hmmm. Half-Teiflings seems rather odd. Would that work in a worl where half-dwarves exist?

[Steampunkette]

For my part I will make stats for any half breed a player wants to play. Half elves and half orcs are two of the most common and here's my reasoning.

Humans find elves very attractive and elves feel similarly. Half elves have a long life span so even with the rarity of the pairing and birth, they stay around a long time, inflating their apparent common nature. They also tend to mate and beget more half elves.

Orcs are common, simple, and direct. They may be ugly, but a few beers and those muscles seem welcome! Far more common human and orc mating.

The other common halfbreed is the goblin. Same reason as half orc, but also covers half hob.

[Inevitability]

I haven't really ever thought about it, but if my players asked I'd answer 'Those crossbreeds do exist, but they are rare and not easily noticeable. In addition, genetic defects and birth complications are common amongst them."

[Talon Sky]

Hey, with magic, I'm pretty sure any two species can breed and produce offspring :p but seriously, I think humans can mate with just about anything. They're the most adaptable species, after all. After halflings, anyways.

[Steampunkette]

http://i.imgur.com/dc36Ktk.jpg
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/0e/f6/88/0ef688d372658efbaefcbbaf919a146e.jpg

[Inevitability]

http://i.imgur.com/dc36Ktk.jpg
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/0e/f6/88/0ef688d372658efbaefcbbaf919a146e.jpg

I think putting those in a NSFW spoiler might be necessary. There's at least one instance of partial nudity.

[1Forge]

Hmmm. Half-Teiflings seems rather odd. Would that work in a worl where half-dwarves exist?

Half tieflings don't exist because tieflings are really like 1/65th deamon, how it works in dnd is that magical races can produce offspring with the non magical races, the magic stays dominant for quite some time gauged by the strength of the magic. Aasmar and tieflings are born in high magic bloodlines so their race transferred to their offspring despite their partner (an aaismar and an elf would make an aaismar) now it gets interesting when a tiefling and an aaismar marry, in that case both traits attemp dominance and achieve incomplete dominance ( half of each)

[VoxRationis]

Half tieflings don't exist because tieflings are really like 1/65th deamon, how it works in dnd is that magical races can produce offspring with the non magical races, the magic stays dominant for quite some time gauged by the strength of the magic. Aasmar and tieflings are born in high magic bloodlines so their race transferred to their offspring despite their partner (an aaismar and an elf would make an aaismar) now it gets interesting when a tiefling and an aaismar marry, in that case both traits attemp dominance and achieve incomplete dominance ( half of each)

People keep saying that, but I was under the impression that in 4e and 5e tieflings weren't a result of interbreeding, but a sort of infusion of fiendish qualities.

[1Forge]

People keep saying that, but I was under the impression that in 4e and 5e tieflings weren't a result of interbreeding, but a sort of infusion of fiendish qualities.

nope not 5e at least, both have abyssal ancestors. pg 42 it says they have an "infernal heratage"

[SovelsAtaask]

nope not 5e at least, both have abyssal ancestors. pg 42 it says they have an "infernal heratage"
That's not quite the same thing as breeding with fiendish creatures. I can't recall with 5e, but I know in 4e they came from an ancient empire making some sort of deal with devils that resulted in all the citizens being transformed so the aristocracy could gain more power or something. I'm pretty sure that deal wasn't breed each and every last person with a devil.

[1Forge]

That's not quite the same thing as breeding with fiendish creatures. I can't recall with 5e, but I know in 4e they came from an ancient empire making some sort of deal with devils that resulted in all the citizens being transformed so the aristocracy could gain more power or something. I'm pretty sure that deal wasn't breed each and every last person with a devil.

maybe but it still means the magic traits are dominant and travel over the previous races traits, which still means that you couldnt have a half tiefling (cuz the curse travels through) But ultimately it's the DM's descision based on their settings laws of magic.

[GiantOctopodes]

Does anyone else think that Goblins look suspiciously like a crossbreed between Gnomes and Orcs?

[Shining Wrath]

I'd allow crossbreeding between any two humanoid creatures. With magic, they can even be the same sex ....

I also houserule that Tieflings and Dragonborn are modified humans, and that related creatures exist that are modified elves and hobgoblins and what have. Except the other creatures aren't as modified, because humans are the most malleable race going.

[critter3of4]

In my campaigns, Orcs are more closely related to Dwarves while Goblins are related to Elves.

Meh, to each their own I guess.

[1Forge]

I remember reading somewhere that dragons could breed with almost anything because of their magic, this could explain alot cross-species wise, considering elves are magic, this would suggest that magic adjusts itself to continue living in it's host, creating half-races like half elves. I would assume the stronger magics would stay longer and more prominantly (ex: dragon born and tieflings) this could also explain why their are not often seen half-dwarves.

this explanation has a few holes in it but it brings up some wierd possibilities, what do you guys think?