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View Full Version : Roleplaying How to Play a Paladin in a Setting Where "The Law" is Usually Not "Good"



Dlkpi
2015-07-22, 12:32 AM
I'm DMing in a home brew setting where the people running the show are arguably not very nice people. I haven't fleshed out a lot of the details of the world yet - mostly it's still painted in broad brush strokes - but as an example, people can get sent off to the mines for even petty crimes (think Les Mis stuff here).

One of my players wants to play a Paladin, and I'm having some trouble advising him on how to do so in a world where doing what is good will frequently put him in direct conflict with the legitimate (albeit not very Good) authorities of the land.

Any advice?

Mechalich
2015-07-22, 01:32 AM
Even in an evil state the actual physical laws on the books, such as they may be, will probably forbid a lot of the usual horrible things. After all, it is not in the interest of an evil state to allow rampant murder, blatant theft and armed robbery, or a variety of other crimes. A hypothetical paladin can stand on ceremony behind the rule of law in such cases, to the point of even exploiting corrupt laws to a degree in some cases - ie. if slaves are property, beating another man's slaves might be considered malicious destruction.

The really troubling part is a situation where the state explicitly allows, with full legal sanction, shocking abuse of one class by another. Caste-oriented societies commonly have this, as in a samurai can simply execute a peasant for looking at him funny. That sort of thing can be more difficult to counteract.

Of course, there's no problem with a paladin answering to a higher law. After all, the paladin already probably worships a god whose faith is, if not outright prohibited, highly discouraged. Such a paladin is likely to end up joining/leading a rebellion against the extant authority in short order, they will just have to be careful to do so in a very law-abiding (in terms of the laws of war) sort of way. This is, actually, more or less the story of Star Wars (original trilogy): with Luke Skywalker as your hypothetical paladin, whose entire faith and very identity was illegal.

Super Evil User
2015-07-22, 01:35 AM
Depends on the severity of their crimes. Real life's your best bet for examples here: no government is perfect and horrible things have happened because of them, but that doesn't mean there aren't good people working on the inside. However, if it comes down to genocide or something that your other players will find completely heinous and Evil, then...

Another thing you have to consider is the frame of reference you're using when determining morality relative to a society. To usit seems that France as depicted in Les Miserables was horribly unjust, but they might not have had anyone better than that back then.

Oberon Kenobi
2015-07-22, 02:36 AM
Well, my first question would be: what sorts of things have you and the table agreed that the party are going to be getting up to? What are the general themes?

If it's a game where the PCs are rising legends, then being in opposition to a corrupt regime and wanting to replace them is a great long term character goal, though I'd advise patience and working within the strictures of the law, changing the system from within, that sort of thing. Whatever method people use to get into power can be used to put less tyrannical people in power, without tearing the system down completely.

If it's a more low-key game, I'd advise that they apply their energies towards changing the world in smaller ways. Let them help those smaller communities and people down on their luck, so that they never have to attract the attention of the authorities in the first place. Let them be a better example to guards, appealing to their better, more forgiving nature, fostering cooperation between the authorities and the people they're meant to protect at least on a small scale. It won't always work out, but... Dura Lex, Sed Lex.

More broadly, though, a Paladin's code of conduct comes from their deity and possibly order, not from the local penal code, so I'd look to that as your best source of advice. Different deities have different views on what constitutes legitimate authority, whether it's the consent of the governed or divine right by birth or whatever else, so let that view guide them.

5ColouredWalker
2015-07-22, 03:16 AM
Code of Conduct
A paladin must be of lawful good alignment and loses all class abilities if she ever willingly commits an evil act.

Additionally, a paladin’s code requires that she respect legitimate authority, act with honor (not lying, not cheating, not using poison, and so forth), help those in need (provided they do not use the help for evil or chaotic ends), and punish those who harm or threaten innocents.

'Is the authority legitimate?' is the first question you need to ask. If not, you don't need to respect it at all merely acknowledge it's existance.


A lawful neutral character acts as law, tradition, or a personal code directs her
Emphasis added.

Ok, so you can be lawful when directed by a personal code, which could direct you against the laws of the land [As best you can while respecting it if legitimate.]. Just make sure that your character actually has one that you don't make up on the fly [Take some time to write one out, even if it's vague, refine it later], and stick to it while doing good.

Eldan
2015-07-22, 03:30 AM
Don't follow the law. Nothing says that either Paladins or lawful characters have to follow it. They consistently follow codes of some kind. That's all.

BWR
2015-07-22, 03:37 AM
Illegal =/= chaotic.

Paladins are not obliged to follow evil laws. Their lawfulness is the idea that there should be proper strictures and guidelines for everyone, that society is a good thing and everyone should be working towards the greater good (in the good and nice sense of making a good place for everyone and not in the 'I can excuse anything because of X' sense). A well-defined society with laws to guide and help people and to prevent the whim and emotion from clouding issues, to ensure that people are treated appropriately and decently.
An evil culture may have laws but laws that permit or promote evil are abominations and should be fought against wherever possible. This doesn't mean a paladin needs to try to kill every manifestation or enforcer of these laws s/he comes across, but it does mean the paladin will likely try to interpret the law (we really need two words for this) to promote Good and/or try to change the law to the better.

hamishspence
2015-07-22, 06:26 AM
Illegal =/= chaotic.

Paladins are not obliged to follow evil laws.

Pretty much.

The WOTC article on the subject:

http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sg/20050325a