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EvilElitest
2007-05-02, 09:36 PM
I don't know if the comic page includes manga, but sense the Judge doom aligment thread was here i might as well do this

What do you think Light's aligment is, from Death Note

No he is not good or neutral

Now he could be LE
He believes what he is doing is right, and is not killing for selfish reasons, he honestly thinks that the world would be better off if he was a god. He act very intellegently and he often has some sort of moral code. However he breaks it whenever he sees the need to
NE He is very self serving in a "I shall be god" sort of way and will not hesatat to do whatever it takes to get what he wants, peace for the world. However he is not doing it for his own benafit
CE, he is completly insane, utterly insane
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Ryuuk
2007-05-02, 09:54 PM
Tried to avoid any spoilers

Light Yagami started the series at most in TN an spiraled towards CE as time passed. His intentions were, from the start were to create, his "perfect" world, eventually getting rid of those who were lazy and useless. By the end of the series he was simply killing those who got in his way, allies and foes alike.

Misa probably CN with a really low wisdom, she followed Light blindly, cutting her lifespan to fractions and losing her memory whenever she was told. She never showed much bloodlust though, she would have been just as happy doing anything else as long as it involved Light.

L would probably be CG-CN. He had a strong sense of justice, but his "competition" against Kira was probably above this in his mind. He did things on his own regardless of the prestablished laws.

Light's Dad is probably NG. He wanted to stop the murders, but he objected when he thought L had gone too far.

Ryuuk, CN-CE. He's bored above all else, and simply drops the Death Note on earth for a change of pace. He makes no attempts to help Light, nor to hurt him, he simply enjoys watching humans struggle.

EvilElitest
2007-05-02, 09:58 PM
1. I want to change the title to Manga aligments, 1. Death note. How do i do that?
2. Light started out as LN, and i think he turned LE when he started killing crimals. However, as the story goes on he becomes NE, but i don't think CE. COuld you provid more evidence, in Spoilder text?
3. L seems N more than anything else, he doesn't reallly care about hte morals, he really just want to get Kira, so i'd say LN, N, CG.
4. Mr. Yagami is so LG, i mean when has he broken a law? He doesn't even use a gun
5. Misa is pretty much right, she is dumb
6. When i learn how to change the title, this is become a spoiler thread
from,
EE

Deel
2007-05-02, 10:05 PM
I agree with most of those, except Light's dad. He has to be lawful good. He wouldn't even use a gun after he had to quit the police, and always abided by strictly lawful concepts, even when it came to L's plans, for the most part anyway. He has been stated, by the creators, as the only real representitive of true justice in death note.

He is one of my more liked characters of the series, along with L, who is pretty much the opposite in terms of lawfulness, I see him as straight chaotic good.

I'd say Light was definitely Lawful Evil throughout 90% or more of the series. He never really completely relied on himself, he twisted and manipulated people all for the vision of his perfect world, whether good intentions or not, killing is bad.

Other than that though, previous post is pretty much on for Ryuk/Misa.

Kojiro Kakita
2007-05-02, 10:31 PM
Hmm, well according to the end, I would have to say he becomes CE


If memory serves when he is cornered instead of giving up he tells Ryuuk to kill everyone. Fortunately the git got what he deserved.


Now if does become a discuss this manga character alignment I have two new suggestions:

Saito Hajime from RK, Kyo from SDK, and current chapter 340+ sasuke.

Ryuuk
2007-05-02, 10:40 PM
I'll concede with Light's dad, he's lawful good as far as it goes, especially during the raid.

Light is still Chaotic in my mind though, he's just smart enough to keep it hidden. His first thoughts about Misa were that he had to kill her (at least until Rem warned him of the consequences), his code of conduct is nonexistent (as long as it can't be triled back to him, he'll do it) and he has absolutely no sense of loyalty towards his allies (Misa, His dad, Takada and Mikami were all expendable).

EvilElitest
2007-05-02, 10:54 PM
I'll concede with Light's dad, he's lawful good as far as it goes, especially during the raid.

Light is still Chaotic in my mind though, he's just smart enough to keep it hidden. His first thoughts about Misa were that he had to kill her (at least until Rem warned him of the consequences), his code of conduct is nonexistent (as long as it can't be triled back to him, he'll do it) and he has absolutely no sense of loyalty towards his allies (Misa, His dad, Takada and Mikami were all expendable).

Sounds NE to me, self serving
Also, just a note to everybody, to keep this from becoming confusing, lets just keep it to one manga at a time.
from,
EE

bluish_wolf
2007-05-03, 02:03 AM
This could be put in either comic or media as it's being both published and aired.

Bearofbadnews
2007-05-03, 02:45 AM
Light: L/G --> L/N --> N/N --> N/E --> C/E

I really thought the direction it went towards the end was pretty disappointing. The manga had this opportunity to establish the awesome situation where we find ourselves rooting for a megalomaniacal genius bent on "making the world a better place" against those who would stand for conventional justice. I really detested the resolution...
The concept of a spiral into evil and madness is basically the point of the story I suppose, so for Light to got out crazy and pathetic makes some sense. But I really would have prefered them to have made Light's death at least a dignified one, at least losing to the original L. I was hoping that Light would turn around and end up on the "good guys" team, dying after battling someone who posed a greater threat. Ah well, it turns out it's just a morality tale after all.

random11
2007-05-03, 05:41 AM
I vote for lawful evil.

The "perfect society" he is trying to create is with a perfect non compremizing law, he is so fanatic about laws and rules that he finds all other methods (like jails) too weak. So without doubt, lawful.

He kills without remorse, doesn't have problems in tricking others to their deaths, he used low criminals just to test his powers, he has no special problem about killing innocents. So he can call it "greater good" if he wants o, but that's as far in evil as any human can get.

bluish_wolf
2007-05-03, 05:47 AM
The fact that he had practically no compulsions to just killing anyone who opposed in the slightest makes me doubt that he was ever good.

I think he only considers the morality of his actions, like, once.

Closet_Skeleton
2007-05-03, 07:51 AM
Light tries to be LE but goes a bit bonkers which would make him possibly CE. I think LE is about right since most dictators end up as psychopaths while still trying to maintain lawful control. When he lost his memory he was the archetypal NG sap.

Onimeno Kyo is chaotic neutral. He seems chaotic evil at many times but doesn't have the ambition or drive to be that evil. He's an adrelaline junkie but he's not as bad as he wants people to believe.

Karellen
2007-05-03, 12:15 PM
Like virtually all reasonably interesting characters, the cast of Death Note is rather too complex to be adequately expressed by a 3x3 grid of personality elements based on an elementary notion of universal morals.

F'rex, take L. He refuses to kill Light off before he has proved that he actually is Kira, even though by doing so he could probably save thousands of lives. Meanwhile, he readily associates with criminals and uses people as pawns through persuasion and blackmail. Light, on the other hand, is a creepy, heartless bastard. Still, he works meticulously towards his ideal of justice, but despite this he uses means that are strictly unjust. In his mind he's doing everything for the greater good, but he's unwilling to sacrifice himself for it. They're not really about either goodness or lawfulness at all.

RuroKen characters, at any rate, are somewhat computable, because the characters are basically one-dimensional personifications of ideology. Particularily Hajime Saitoh, who is Lawful Neutral personified. I guess that's why he's The Man.

EvilElitest
2007-05-03, 07:02 PM
F'rex, take L. He refuses to kill Light off before he has proved that he actually is Kira, even though by doing so he could probably save thousands of lives.

Isn't that good?
from,
EE

Dhavaer
2007-05-03, 07:09 PM
Isn't that good?
from,
EE

It sounds more lawful to me. I've never read the series, though, so I don't know the circumstances.

EvilElitest
2007-05-03, 07:11 PM
It sounds more lawful to me. I've never read the series, though, so I don't know the circumstances.

L seems LN, N, CN, N, or CG to me
from,
EE

Innis Cabal
2007-05-03, 07:13 PM
L is LN, pure and simple, he isnt in it to catch Light by the end, he is in it to show Light he is better, thats not good but he is still trying to bring Kira to justice.
Light is LE pure and simple, one chaotic act dosnt change who you are. When your whole reason for killing is to make a better law filled world you are LE, thats LE by definition
Lights Dad is True Awsome, he has no alignment, he could beat Chuck Norris to death with Bruce Lee and still get home for dinner wit hhis wife and kids
The rest of the cast are either Lawful Plot becuase thats all they are there for, or Chaotic Stupid becuase they fail at helping the plot and make an all togather A+ manga annoying in bits.

And the only reason Light starts doing silly things is becuase Near and Mello are plot devices put in place to make him fall at the end. Near is neither cool as L, or as smart, he makes leaps of faith and is right with no real basis in reality. He sees what he wants to see and the plot is made so he is right. And Mello while an ok character is there to make Near look better and disguise the fact that Near is, in the end a plot device

EvilElitest
2007-05-03, 07:36 PM
L is LN, pure and simple, he isnt in it to catch Light by the end, he is in it to show Light he is better, thats not good but he is still trying to bring Kira to justice.
Light is LE pure and simple, one chaotic act dosnt change who you are. When your whole reason for killing is to make a better law filled world you are LE, thats LE by definition
Lights Dad is True Awsome, he has no alignment, he could beat Chuck Norris to death with Bruce Lee and still get home for dinner wit hhis wife and kids
The rest of the cast are either Lawful Plot becuase thats all they are there for, or Chaotic Stupid becuase they fail at helping the plot and make an all togather A+ manga annoying in bits.
1. Agree with L
2. Agree with Light
3. The rest of cast is cool though, at least Ryuk is, best CE character ever you might say
4. Light's dad is awsome, he is the best. Light's Dad=Link's hat


And the only reason Light starts doing silly things is becuase Near and Mello are plot devices put in place to make him fall at the end. Near is neither cool as L, or as smart, he makes leaps of faith and is right with no real basis in reality. He sees what he wants to see and the plot is made so he is right. And Mello while an ok character is there to make Near look better and disguise the fact that Near is, in the end a plot device

1. Hate near so much, he is so unrealistic.

I don't mind Light losing, but at least a cool person, like L or someone equally cool

Mello is pretty cool once he gets his scar, but i still agree
Mell would be NE or CE?
Near doesn't get an aligment, becaue nobody loves him
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EE

Innis Cabal
2007-05-03, 07:40 PM
Mello..honestly is CN, he is selfish and self centered and is doing what he is doing for such selfish reasons, he isnt evil though, i dont think he is smart enough to be evil. The only thing that makes him better is becuase he just wants to show up Near, and show him how cool he is, which is like showing the color pink the color black, Pink knows black is better its just going to deny it."

EvilElitest
2007-05-03, 07:44 PM
Mello..honestly is CN, he is selfish and self centered and is doing what he is doing for such selfish reasons, he isnt evil though, i dont think he is smart enough to be evil. The only thing that makes him better is becuase he just wants to show up Near, and show him how cool he is, which is like showing the color pink the color black, Pink knows black is better its just going to deny it."

He does hurt innocents to get what he wants

And does anyone know where i can watch eposide 29-30. Youtube does not allow them
from,
EE

Innis Cabal
2007-05-03, 07:45 PM
ya but he also huts bad people to, and Naruto Mania is good

EvilElitest
2007-05-03, 07:48 PM
ya but he also huts bad people to, and Naruto Mania is good

Innocent bad people, that makes him only slightly different than L

And what is Naurto Mania?
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EE

Innis Cabal
2007-05-03, 07:49 PM
its a website sir, go to google and type it in, its free, you can even DL the manga

EvilElitest
2007-05-03, 07:54 PM
its a website sir, go to google and type it in, its free, you can even DL the manga

If what you say is true, then i must take back what i said

Light's Dad=Link's Hat=Innis Cabel

Light, Ryuk, Edward Elric, Greed, Envy, Martel, Frank Archer, Kimblee, Link, Vader, Roy and Daven are good to
from,
EE

Innis Cabal
2007-05-03, 07:58 PM
well i am honored...tell the rest of the following that i am the truth of Links Hat....

EvilElitest
2007-05-03, 08:03 PM
well i am honored...tell the rest of the following that i am the truth of Links Hat....

Only if you join
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EE

Innis Cabal
2007-05-03, 08:10 PM
never going to happen, i am a Epitaph supporter all the way.

EvilElitest
2007-05-03, 08:14 PM
never going to happen, i am a Epitaph supporter all the way.

who is that?

Why can't you surrport both?
from,
EE

Innis Cabal
2007-05-03, 08:19 PM
its a .hack thing, it would take....a long time to explain becuase its pretty deep, ill PM you a link to some of the info, and no, i love Zelda, just finished TP which is the only one i didnt play, but i just cant support him, Midna sure thing, Ganandorf? Sure, Even Zant....but not Link

EvilElitest
2007-05-03, 09:06 PM
its a .hack thing, it would take....a long time to explain becuase its pretty deep, ill PM you a link to some of the info, and no, i love Zelda, just finished TP which is the only one i didnt play, but i just cant support him, Midna sure thing, Ganandorf? Sure, Even Zant....but not Link

1. Why not link?
2. Its links hat, not link, just the hat for all its coolness
3. Why do you not like link? I wouldn't want to make a church in his honor, but i rather like him

Anyways, so here is what i have so far

L=LN
Light=LE
Ryuk=CE
Misa=CE, but CN in mindset, really dumb
Matsuda =NG
Light's Dad = Awsome, LG
Mello=CE
Near=useless,, i mean TN
from,
EE

Kojiro Kakita
2007-05-03, 09:46 PM
How can you disrespect Near like that?

Anyway, once all the Death Note characters have been classified, should we move onto another anime, one that probably many people have seen. (I would suggest Fate/Stay Night but the alignments are already given.

Innis Cabal
2007-05-03, 09:50 PM
Becuase he is a poorly thought out plot device there to simple make an end game for one of the best manga i have ever seen thats how. He comes in wih no real reason to know anything, and within 10 panels guess's everything and it just HAPPENS to be right...odd dont you think. Mello isnt much better but he serves the purpose of "LOOK SHINEY COLORS" for Near untill they have a good enough reason why Near did what he did at the start...which is still major BS.

And Fate/Stay is good...but like you said not hard to guess

EvilElitest
2007-05-03, 10:07 PM
I was thinking Full Metal Alchemist, one of my favorits

Why i hate near, simple


he is like a crappy sequal to L, except even more boring

And innis, why do you hate Link?

Any ways, onto FMA, first off, Edward Elric

I'd say LN

from,
EE

Innis Cabal
2007-05-03, 10:14 PM
Dont hate link, there isnt anything there to hate, i just dont cheer for the good guys....never did, i even said that on the thread, i hate Kefka, i hate Near, i hate Waka from Okami....but i dont hate Link. He is the hero, heck he is one of THE Hero's. He just have a...oh whats the word...oh ya character. He dosnt talk, his past is cilche....ya its all good but still. More back story then "Your from town A, and you like woman B, but youll end up liking zelda(Or midna) would be nice. And if i could offer a suggestion for an anime/manga......King Of Bandit Jing:Twilight Tales- I know Jing is TN but what about does everyone else think about the other characters?

EvilElitest
2007-05-03, 10:18 PM
Dont hate link, there isnt anything there to hate, i just dont cheer for the good guys....never did, i even said that on the thread, i hate Kefka, i hate Near, i hate Waka from Okami....but i dont hate Link. He is the hero, heck he is one of THE Hero's. He just have a...oh whats the word...oh ya character. He dosnt talk, his past is cilche....ya its all good but still. More back story then "Your from town A, and you like woman B, but youll end up liking zelda(Or midna) would be nice. And if i could offer a suggestion for an anime/manga......King Of Bandit Jing:Twilight Tales- I know Jing is TN but what about does everyone else think about the other characters?

LInk doesn't have a back story, or a really vauge one

I like him, he does his job in hte most effective way possible, and thats it.
He also has shown not romantic feelings at all
He is also mute, so no angst:smallsmile:

So are we doing Twilight Tales or Full Metal Alcemist

I vote the second, but i never saw the first
from,
EE

Innis Cabal
2007-05-03, 10:19 PM
see, no one seems to know Jing, or its sequel but it is an amazing manga, anime is ok. It is something i would suggest to you all

EvilElitest
2007-05-03, 10:26 PM
see, no one seems to know Jing, or its sequel but it is an amazing manga, anime is ok. It is something i would suggest to you all


I'll wiki it tommorow, but until then, lets work on FMA, because it is awsome


So i nomonate Edward Elric for LN, any backers?
from,
EE

Innis Cabal
2007-05-03, 10:27 PM
manga FMA or Anime FMA? Cause all the Homonculi are CE

EvilElitest
2007-05-03, 10:38 PM
manga FMA or Anime FMA? Cause all the Homonculi are CE

Both

Manga

Envy=CE
Lust= NE
Greed=LE
Wrath=LE
Pride=???
Sloth=???
Gluttony=LG i mean CE
Anime
Envy=CE
Lust=LE
Greed=LE
Wrath=CE
Pride=LE
Sloth=NE
Gluttony=CE

Edward is LN in the anime, LG in the manga i'd say

Al is NG in the manga, he doesn't exist in the anime (i deny him)
Scar is LE in the anime, CE in the manga
Roy is LN in both
Hues is NG in both
Wingry is NG in both
Tucker is CE in both, but turns NE in the end of the anime
Kimble is LE in the manga, CE in the anime
Grand is N in the manga i think, LE in the anime
Frank archer is NE
from,
EE

Innis Cabal
2007-05-03, 10:42 PM
Greed isnt LE, no way, he wants everything and will do anything to get it, which is CE.

EvilElitest
2007-05-04, 06:14 AM
Greed isnt LE, no way, he wants everything and will do anything to get it, which is CE.

He had code of conduct though, remember

He didn't fight women

He doesn't like to hurt innocents if i can be avoided

He tries to protect his men/women, who he treats very well

He is always willing to talk though things
from,
EE

Kojiro Kakita
2007-05-04, 09:00 PM
Sorry, have to pull out of this discussion. I am not an FMA fan and I am starting to move away from shonen so

Well, here are the manga I have read where alignment discussion will be interesting

Berserk
Hellsing (now that is an interesting one)
Battle Royale (book only)
Elfen Lied (manga and anime)
SDK

EvilElitest
2007-05-04, 11:48 PM
Sorry, have to pull out of this discussion. I am not an FMA fan and I am starting to move away from shonen so

Well, here are the manga I have read where alignment discussion will be interesting

Berserk
Hellsing (now that is an interesting one)
Battle Royale (book only)
Elfen Lied (manga and anime)
SDK

i'm fine, i havn't read all of them, but help yourself

Why not FMA? It is like the best out their, i mean a main character who isn't as dumb a rock
from,
EE

Kojiro Kakita
2007-05-05, 12:26 PM
While FMA is still good, I discovered that I as I get older I am moving away from most shounen and to seinen. The reason why I think the guess the alignment game is better for Seinen manga is that in seinen manga the alignment of characters is much harder.

For example what alignment could Guts from Berserk have?

EvilElitest
2007-05-05, 10:32 PM
While FMA is still good, I discovered that I as I get older I am moving away from most shounen and to seinen. The reason why I think the guess the alignment game is better for Seinen manga is that in seinen manga the alignment of characters is much harder.

For example what alignment could Guts from Berserk have?

I wouldn't know
from,
EE

13_CBS
2007-05-05, 11:56 PM
Hmm, I'd say Tucker is more LN with evil tendencies. He claims that he does what he does for the sake of science.

However, in the anime at least, he does seem to become more CE, since he'll do just about anything to get his daughter back.

As for the homonculi...Glutonny is so dull that I'd try to classify him as Neutral Stupid with evil tendencies. Neutra since he follows Lust around all the time and obeys just about every command she gives (Lawful), but at the same time he can't control his hunger (chaotic). Evil? Well, check out his chuckles in the anime. Evil there.

Lust starts out LE, but ends up leaning more towards the Neutral side (although her motivations are, in the end, selfish).

Anger: NE, I think, a mixture of "gotta do it for momma" + "I hate Ed!"

Envy: CE in the anime at least. By the end of the series he seems to be mostly motivated by "I hate the Elrics!". LE in the manga though.

Greed: CE in the anime, no doubt. Not sure about the manga since I don't read it as much...

Pride/Anger the Fuhrer: LN with evil tendencies, methinks, in the anime. He seems to be completely loyal and obedient to Dante, yet he has no qualms about killing his adopted son and whatnot.

Roy Mustang: LN with some Good tendencies, emphasis on Lawful. He obeys orders, but still feels some pangs of morality when his orders get bloody.

EvilElitest
2007-05-06, 11:34 AM
I"m just going to spoiler this, does any one know how to edit a title? I want to make this thread Spoiler



Hmm, I'd say Tucker is more LN with evil tendencies. He claims that he does what he does for the sake of science.

However, in the anime at least, he does seem to become more CE, since he'll do just about anything to get his daughter back.

I'd Say in the Manga, were he gets less screen time, he starts out LN, but becomes LE when he kill his wife and kid.
I'd still say he is LE in the anime, because if you notice his lines, he doesn't really like working with all these evil people, Such as
"I created these Chimeras for defense not attack"


As for the homonculi...Glutonny is so dull that I'd try to classify him as Neutral Stupid with evil tendencies. Neutra since he follows Lust around all the time and obeys just about every command she gives (Lawful), but at the same time he can't control his hunger (chaotic). Evil? Well, check out his chuckles in the anime. Evil there.
His int is higher than animal, but just barely. He is CE, just devoted to lust


Lust starts out LE, but ends up leaning more towards the Neutral side (although her motivations are, in the end, selfish).
In the anime yes, in the Manga i'd say she is more NE all the way though

Anger: NE, I think, a mixture of "gotta do it for momma" + "I hate Ed!"
yep

Envy: CE in the anime at least. By the end of the series he seems to be mostly motivated by "I hate the Elrics!". LE in the manga though.
I agree with the anime, but he seems more like a serial killer in the manga, why do you say that?


Greed: CE in the anime, no doubt. Not sure about the manga since I don't read it as much...
LE, i think, he has a code of honor.

Pride/Anger the Fuhrer: LN with evil tendencies, methinks, in the anime. He seems to be completely loyal and obedient to Dante, yet he has no qualms about killing his adopted son and whatnot.
I think that is more LE



Roy Mustang: LN with some Good tendencies, emphasis on Lawful. He obeys orders, but still feels some pangs of morality when his orders get bloody.
Seems correct

from,
EE

Aquillion
2007-05-07, 04:58 AM
To get back to the original topic,

Light is Lawful Evil for the most part, I think. His perfect world is basically a world defined by absolute law... and the fact that he seems to think, at the gut level, that those laws don't apply to him is typical of LE, not a sign that he's chaotic. When he lost his memory, he seemed closer to LN or even LG, but it's hard to say... you'd expect him to be the same person who initially made the decisions he made. On the other hand, he screamed when he got his memories back, which implies (at least to me) that for an instant before they 'locked in' properly, he found them horrifying. Note that he made the same answer his father did about guns, too... very lawful there. The rest of the time, the swiftness with which he executed "L" on live TV strongly implies evil (and not a shift over time--he was evil to begin with, and the Death Note just gave him a chance to do something with it without a chance of getting caught.)

L seems Lawful to me, too, but in a different way. He's completely obsessive-compulsive--arbitrarily stacking anything near him in perfect towers, say. His perfection in fighting crime (and in going after Kira) comes from his obsession with making everything line up perfectly, with eliminating flaws in his understanding. That's a hyper-lawful trait... lawful doesn't have to mean "likes the law", after all. L, despite his appearance, is closer to someone you'd expect to find in Mechanus. Probably lawful neutral, although we don't get enough inside his head to say for sure; could be good.

Near is mini-L in that regard, but even more lawful. Mello is chaotic, duh.

Also, Watari > Light's dad. By about a million times. His alignment is Awesome Awesome, or Awesome Squared if you prefer. Watari = Alfred, and Alfred > Batman.

I notice nobody brought up Ryuk yet, maybe because it's obvious. He's very strongly chaotic, clearly. He doesn't seem evil... probably chaotic neutral. Granted, he set things in motion that caused a lot of suffering just for his own amusement, but that strikes me more as a sign of detachment and sheer chaoticness than a sign of evil... there's no real malice in him.

Misa is chaotic evil. Even before she met Light, she was near-arbitrarily killing people for reasons that were, frankly, stupid. It can be hard to judge her alignment because she's so stupid, but her general carelessness towards things strikes me as a chaotic trait, not just a sign of airheadedness, while her willingness to kill innocent people so easily actually makes her one of the more evil people in the cast. She's just so stupid that it's hard to notice it.

EvilElitest
2007-05-08, 12:58 PM
To get back to the original topic,

Light is Lawful Evil for the most part, I think. His perfect world is basically a world defined by absolute law... and the fact that he seems to think, at the gut level, that those laws don't apply to him is typical of LE, not a sign that he's chaotic. When he lost his memory, he seemed closer to LN or even LG, but it's hard to say... you'd expect him to be the same person who initially made the decisions he made. On the other hand, he screamed when he got his memories back, which implies (at least to me) that for an instant before they 'locked in' properly, he found them horrifying. Note that he made the same answer his father did about guns, too... very lawful there. The rest of the time, the swiftness with which he executed "L" on live TV strongly implies evil (and not a shift over time--he was evil to begin with, and the Death Note just gave him a chance to do something with it without a chance of getting caught.)

L seems Lawful to me, too, but in a different way. He's completely obsessive-compulsive--arbitrarily stacking anything near him in perfect towers, say. His perfection in fighting crime (and in going after Kira) comes from his obsession with making everything line up perfectly, with eliminating flaws in his understanding. That's a hyper-lawful trait... lawful doesn't have to mean "likes the law", after all. L, despite his appearance, is closer to someone you'd expect to find in Mechanus. Probably lawful neutral, although we don't get enough inside his head to say for sure; could be good.

Near is mini-L in that regard, but even more lawful. Mello is chaotic, duh.

Also, Watari > Light's dad. By about a million times. His alignment is Awesome Awesome, or Awesome Squared if you prefer. Watari = Alfred, and Alfred > Batman.

I notice nobody brought up Ryuk yet, maybe because it's obvious. He's very strongly chaotic, clearly. He doesn't seem evil... probably chaotic neutral. Granted, he set things in motion that caused a lot of suffering just for his own amusement, but that strikes me more as a sign of detachment and sheer chaoticness than a sign of evil... there's no real malice in him.

Misa is chaotic evil. Even before she met Light, she was near-arbitrarily killing people for reasons that were, frankly, stupid. It can be hard to judge her alignment because she's so stupid, but her general carelessness towards things strikes me as a chaotic trait, not just a sign of airheadedness, while her willingness to kill innocent people so easily actually makes her one of the more evil people in the cast. She's just so stupid that it's hard to notice it.

I argree with what you say about light, just one nitpick

When he screams about getting his memory back, i think that is more because of the massive intake of knowlage in such a short amount of time than guilt. Misa didt he same
Your right, Light without his memories seems LN
And yes, Misa is a complete fool

Just two more things
1. Watari seems LN to me, and not he is not as great as Light's dad, he is good, just not that good
2. Ryuk seems LE to me now that i think about it, compare him to Rem

Rem shows a willingness to break the rules, or at least bend them in Misa's favor, and in the end breaks the rules to save Misa. Ryuk never does that, he follows the rules to the letter
He also is very clear on the terms of how neutral he is, such as telling light about his stalker after first making it clear that he is speaking as a room mate not as a deathgod
He is evil because he finds human's death's funny and loves spreading strife for his own amusment

from,
EE

EvilElitest
2007-05-08, 01:03 PM
To get back to the original topic,

Light is Lawful Evil for the most part, I think. His perfect world is basically a world defined by absolute law... and the fact that he seems to think, at the gut level, that those laws don't apply to him is typical of LE, not a sign that he's chaotic. When he lost his memory, he seemed closer to LN or even LG, but it's hard to say... you'd expect him to be the same person who initially made the decisions he made. On the other hand, he screamed when he got his memories back, which implies (at least to me) that for an instant before they 'locked in' properly, he found them horrifying. Note that he made the same answer his father did about guns, too... very lawful there. The rest of the time, the swiftness with which he executed "L" on live TV strongly implies evil (and not a shift over time--he was evil to begin with, and the Death Note just gave him a chance to do something with it without a chance of getting caught.)

L seems Lawful to me, too, but in a different way. He's completely obsessive-compulsive--arbitrarily stacking anything near him in perfect towers, say. His perfection in fighting crime (and in going after Kira) comes from his obsession with making everything line up perfectly, with eliminating flaws in his understanding. That's a hyper-lawful trait... lawful doesn't have to mean "likes the law", after all. L, despite his appearance, is closer to someone you'd expect to find in Mechanus. Probably lawful neutral, although we don't get enough inside his head to say for sure; could be good.

Near is mini-L in that regard, but even more lawful. Mello is chaotic, duh.

Also, Watari > Light's dad. By about a million times. His alignment is Awesome Awesome, or Awesome Squared if you prefer. Watari = Alfred, and Alfred > Batman.

I notice nobody brought up Ryuk yet, maybe because it's obvious. He's very strongly chaotic, clearly. He doesn't seem evil... probably chaotic neutral. Granted, he set things in motion that caused a lot of suffering just for his own amusement, but that strikes me more as a sign of detachment and sheer chaoticness than a sign of evil... there's no real malice in him.

Misa is chaotic evil. Even before she met Light, she was near-arbitrarily killing people for reasons that were, frankly, stupid. It can be hard to judge her alignment because she's so stupid, but her general carelessness towards things strikes me as a chaotic trait, not just a sign of airheadedness, while her willingness to kill innocent people so easily actually makes her one of the more evil people in the cast. She's just so stupid that it's hard to notice it.

I argree with what you say about light, just one nitpick

When he screams about getting his memory back, i think that is more because of the massive intake of knowlage in such a short amount of time than guilt. Misa didt he same
Your right, Light without his memories seems LN
And yes, Misa is a complete fool

Just two more things
1. Watari seems LN to me, and not he is not as great as Light's dad, he is good, just not that good
2. Ryuk seems LE to me now that i think about it, compare him to Rem

Rem shows a willingness to break the rules, or at least bend them in Misa's favor, and in the end breaks the rules to save Misa. Ryuk never does that, he follows the rules to the letter
He also is very clear on the terms of how neutral he is, such as telling light about his stalker after first making it clear that he is speaking as a room mate not as a deathgod
He is evil because he finds human's death's funny and loves spreading strife for his own amusment

from,
EE

Aquillion
2007-05-10, 08:59 AM
Just two more things
1. Watari seems LN to me, and not he is not as great as Light's dad, he is good, just not that good
2. Ryuk seems LE to me now that i think about it, compare him to Rem

Rem shows a willingness to break the rules, or at least bend them in Misa's favor, and in the end breaks the rules to save Misa. Ryuk never does that, he follows the rules to the letter
He also is very clear on the terms of how neutral he is, such as telling light about his stalker after first making it clear that he is speaking as a room mate not as a deathgod
He is evil because he finds human's death's funny and loves spreading strife for his own amusment

from,
EE
Ryuk only follows the rules because they amuse him, though. Everything he does is just because he finds it amusing--helping Light would make things boring (and he has no reason to, besides). He does help light on a few occasions, going against what he'd said earlier--for really silly reasons, like wanting to eat apples. And if his decision to drop a death note in the human world for his own amusement isn't a character-defining chaotic act, I don't know what is.

Now, granted, if he was human I'd say that these things are also evil... but he isn't. He's a god of death, and it's perfectly normal for him to feel disconnected from human life. It feels, sort of, as if calling him evil would be like calling a thunderstorm or a tornado evil.

EvilElitest
2007-05-10, 12:45 PM
Ryuk only follows the rules because they amuse him, though. Everything he does is just because he finds it amusing--helping Light would make things boring (and he has no reason to, besides). He does help light on a few occasions, going against what he'd said earlier--for really silly reasons, like wanting to eat apples. And if his decision to drop a death note in the human world for his own amusement isn't a character-defining chaotic act, I don't know what is.

Now, granted, if he was human I'd say that these things are also evil... but he isn't. He's a god of death, and it's perfectly normal for him to feel disconnected from human life. It feels, sort of, as if calling him evil would be like calling a thunderstorm or a tornado evil.

[SPOILER]
1. He makes his loop holes very clear though. When he does the appel trick he makes it clear to light what form of tricky would be required to get his help, but he stills follows the rule. He has a very basic code. His intent is chaotic certainly, and his methods are chatoic, but his personal methods are lawfu.
2. If we use D&D aligments, then morals are not realtive and he is evil. I don't think he would care though
[SPOILER]
from,
EE