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Ashdate
2007-05-02, 09:50 PM
Here's the quick story: My brother's DM is letting my brother (an 8th level Wizard) use Polymorph, as it reads in the 3.5 Player's Handbook.

I admit this is cruel of me, but I don't really like his DM, as he screwed over a Cleric of mine a few months ago, and now I think it's time for a little payback :smallamused:

So yes, I'm looking to break his DM with Polymorph, as written. Any suggestions? A quick look through the 3.5 Monster Manual gave me Digesters, Rust Monsters, Tendriculoses, Wyverns, and Ogre Mages, but I know there must be some other monsters out there waiting to assault this poor DM. Any help?

Yes, I realize this is petty of me.

- Eddie

the_tick_rules
2007-05-02, 09:57 PM
can ya do vampire and make him your undead slave? use some black lotus to soften his con up first.

Hario
2007-05-02, 10:07 PM
Polymorph into a Sarrukh (Savage Species), initiate the pun-pun loop= win. but that's if you want to be truely saddistic and initiate a bad old joke and overmentioned at that.

J-man
2007-05-02, 10:09 PM
Uhmm.. if you do not like him, do not play with him. Ruining a game because you "can" is just stupid.

Ramza00
2007-05-02, 10:17 PM
What books do you have access for feats and forms.

What lvl are you again? Your brother character is lvl 8 what lvl are you?

Fax Celestis
2007-05-02, 10:22 PM
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/ff_gallery/50150.jpg

Rukanyr.

Ashdate
2007-05-02, 10:25 PM
Uhmm.. if you do not like him, do not play with him. Ruining a game because you "can" is just stupid.

You're absolutely right. See, the genius about this is that I don't play in this group. My brother was just looking for 4th level spells to take and I felt mischievous :)

I think the Pun-Pun loop is way too complicated. I just want to give my brother the ability to polymorph into several creatures that are pretty kick ass.

I think my brother has access to most of the books (his DM has quite a collection) so I figure I'd just tell them what book they're from and let him pick and choose.

Also, you can't do a vampire. Vampires are undead, and like Outsiders are not polymorphable. I think that kills the Rukanyr idea doesn't it?

- Eddie

Lord Iames Osari
2007-05-02, 10:27 PM
Polymorph into a Sarrukh (Savage Species), initiate the pun-pun loop= win. but that's if you want to be truely saddistic and initiate a bad old joke and overmentioned at that.

Pun-Pun (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=491801), in case you weren't familiar with him.

ShneekeyTheLost
2007-05-02, 10:28 PM
can ya do vampire and make him your undead slave?

Can't Polymorph into Undead.

As written, you're limited to 8 HD of critter. Nothing smaller than Fine, no Incorporeal or Gaseous Forms either.

Pretty much, you're looking for Extrodinary abilities, and physical stats.

Trolls, for instance, have 6 HD. They also have Regeneration 5, +12 Str, +4 Dex, +12 Con, Large Size, Darkvision, +5 Natural Armor Bonus, and Scent. This would be good, although not as broke as it can be. However, you get full spellcasting while in this form. Energy Resistance (Fire) is your friend).

Rust Monster, you already know about

The Ettercap has a poison which does 1d6 dex, and secondary damage 2d6 dex. Nasty. Can throw webs too.

Cloakers are nice to try out. All the Moans are Ex rather than Su

Dragons aren't good yet. Your caster level isn't high enough.

Fey aren't too good, most of 'em have killer Su not Ex

Turning into an 8 headed Hydra is always fun...

A Remorhaz has only 7 HD, so it fits. Any weapon makes a save or get melted. Anything hitting you with a natural attack takes 8d6 damage. Plus, +11 Natural Armor isn't bad...

Shambling Mound is immune to Lightning and also has a +11 Natural Armor

Oozes are pretty good defensive forms, being immune to just about everything but one weakness...

Starbuck_II
2007-05-02, 10:29 PM
Here's the quick story: My brother's DM is letting my brother (an 8th level Wizard) use Polymorph, as it reads in the 3.5 Player's Handbook.

I admit this is cruel of me, but I don't really like his DM, as he screwed over a Cleric of mine a few months ago, and now I think it's time for a little payback :smallamused:

So yes, I'm looking to break his DM with Polymorph, as written. Any suggestions? A quick look through the 3.5 Monster Manual gave me Digesters, Rust Monsters, Tendriculoses, Wyverns, and Ogre Mages, but I know there must be some other monsters out there waiting to assault this poor DM. Any help?

Yes, I realize this is petty of me.

- Eddie
1) Trent (29 Str, Dr/slashing, deals double to objects, great sundering, and all around good).
2) 8 headed Hydra (just alot of attacks).
3) Annis Hag I not bad I hear
4) Carrison Crawler for the paralysing
5) Cloaker: Scream special attack has four uses: Hold Monster at will (standard action up to 30 feet, sadly Cha based for us non Sorcerors), or area bane, fear, etc effects. They affect all but you in 30 foot area so not good in a group.
6) Rust Monster
7) Wyverns

These are just ideas.



Trolls, for instance, have 6 HD. They also have Regeneration 5, +12 Str, +4 Dex, +12 Con, Large Size, Darkvision, +5 Natural Armor Bonus, and Scent. This would be good, although not as broke as it can be. However, you get full spellcasting while in this form. Energy Resistance (Fire) is your friend).
You don't get special qualities of the form like fast heal or Regen. But everything else.


Cloakers are nice to try out. All the Moans are Ex rather than Su

A Remorhaz has only 7 HD, so it fits. Any weapon makes a save or get melted. Anything hitting you with a natural attack takes 8d6 damage. Plus, +11 Natural Armor isn't bad...

Shambling Mound is immune to Lightning and also has a +11 Natural Armor

Oozes are pretty good defensive forms, being immune to just about everything but one weakness...

Agreed, though Shambling immune to lightning not a extraordinary quality thus not gained?

Fax Celestis
2007-05-02, 10:31 PM
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/ff_gallery/50150.jpg

Rukanyr.

Let me clarify: 7 HD abberration that has 6 claws, 3 bites, and a slam as a natural attack routine, and also has poison, decent natural AC, and decent physical scores. With the correct spellage, you can rock the casbah with this sucker.

Ramza00
2007-05-02, 10:35 PM
Assume Supernatural Ability from Savage Species, can do some real cheese with it such as the beholder (gauth or beholder kin's) eye rays. Remember they are free actions thus you can still cast other spells that round ;) Works better as a sorcerer since the DCs are Cha based.

Hydra is another good one, 8 natural attacks (you can get upt ot 16 if you have your party fighter cut them off and your cleric healing you, but you need time to do that) with assume supernaturall ability you will have 8 breath weapons doing 3d6 damage

Ramza00
2007-05-02, 10:37 PM
Troll regeneration is an ex special quality not an ex special attack. You only get ex special attacks with polymorph

Koga
2007-05-02, 10:57 PM
Polymorph into the tarrasque.

Or if the GM lets you, the undead tarrasque which hasn't seen the light of day sense AD&D. (And for good reason..)

Fax Celestis
2007-05-02, 11:00 PM
Polymorph into the tarrasque.

Or if the GM lets you, the undead tarrasque which hasn't seen the light of day sense AD&D. (And for good reason..)

Sorry, too many HD. Try again.

Ashdate
2007-05-02, 11:09 PM
Let me clarify: 7 HD abberration that has 6 claws, 3 bites, and a slam as a natural attack routine, and also has poison, decent natural AC, and decent physical scores. With the correct spellage, you can rock the casbah with this sucker.

And what book is that out of? All research I do puts it in the 3.0 Fiend Folio...

- Eddie

13_CBS
2007-05-02, 11:27 PM
Polymorph into a Drizzt clone. That'll tick anyone off.

ArmorArmadillo
2007-05-02, 11:27 PM
Let me clarify: 7 HD abberration that has 6 claws, 3 bites, and a slam as a natural attack routine, and also has poison, decent natural AC, and decent physical scores. With the correct spellage, you can rock the casbah with this sucker.
Only issue is that it is 3.0, but yes, this has utterly WRECKED a game I've seen when interacting with polymorph.

Also, see if your DM is letting you stretch the definition of "Share Spell" to allow your familiar to polymorph with you.

Person_Man
2007-05-02, 11:35 PM
My advice is not to use it. I'm all about having fun with optimal cheese, but abusing Polymorph almost always leads to game breaking. Unless your brother wants his friend to hate him, I'd avoid it.

Also, the War Troll from MMIII.

Mewtarthio
2007-05-02, 11:42 PM
Or if the GM lets you, the undead tarrasque which hasn't seen the light of day sense AD&D. (And for good reason..)

What's so special about an undead Tarrasque? He does lose his Regeneration ability, y'know.

Ramza00
2007-05-02, 11:45 PM
Fiend Follo has a 3.5 update here

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/20030718a

Armads
2007-05-04, 10:09 PM
8 Headed Hydra. You need to be large before you can do it, though, so Enlarge yourself before polymorphing.

Haedrian
2007-05-05, 05:04 AM
Personally, I'd turn into a small flying creature, then zap people from afar

Fireball has a nyce range :)

Starbuck_II
2007-05-05, 09:09 AM
8 Headed Hydra. You need to be large before you can do it, though, so Enlarge yourself before polymorphing.

Why would 8 headed need enlarge: it can't wear armor.
You only need Enlarge person if wearing armor to turn into a troll so armor doesn't meld.

NullAshton
2007-05-05, 09:20 AM
Er.... you might actually need enlarge. Polymorph inherits everything from Alter Self, and Alter self has a clause which only allows you to assume forms one size category different... huh. "You can’t cause a subject to assume a form smaller than Fine" seems to imply that you can polymorph into any size creature, but it doesn't explicitly say that you can.

ghost_warlock
2007-05-05, 10:13 AM
Not to mention that multiple magical effects that increase size do not stack. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/enlargePerson.htm)

Piccamo
2007-05-05, 10:27 AM
Let me clarify: 7 HD abberration that has 6 claws, 3 bites, and a slam as a natural attack routine, and also has poison, decent natural AC, and decent physical scores. With the correct spellage, you can rock the casbah with this sucker.

<3 the Clash reference.

Premier
2007-05-05, 10:43 AM
You're absolutely right. See, the genius about this is that I don't play in this group. My brother was just looking for 4th level spells to take and I felt mischievous :)

So you're not only ruining several people's fun in order to have your petty vendetta over a game, but you're actually doing it to a group of gamers (including your own brother) you're not even actually a member of. Because make no mistake, the only thing your successful "breaking of the DM" will achieve is make the guy frustrated and rightfully vindictive, and soon he'll be taking unfair but inevitable vengeance on the players.

Seriously, I'd be ashamed if such an idea even crossed my mind.

BrokenButterfly
2007-05-05, 11:46 AM
Look, don't abuse Polymorph, it's not fun for a DM. I had to house-rule it in my campaign last Thursday and am getting abuse for it, because our caster built his entire character around the concept of its' abuse. Eight/Nine-Headed Hydra that can Sneak Attack for 4d6 with all of its' attacks is a bit too powerful at 8th/9th level.

Starbuck_II
2007-05-05, 12:13 PM
Look, don't abuse Polymorph, it's not fun for a DM. I had to house-rule it in my campaign last Thursday and am getting abuse for it, because our caster built his entire character around the concept of its' abuse. Eight/Nine-Headed Hydra that can Sneak Attack for 4d6 with all of its' attacks is a bit too powerful at 8th/9th level.

Did the Hydra flank? Remember Hydras reach is 5 feet les than its space.
Hydras have reach like a horse of their size.

Tor the Fallen
2007-05-05, 05:50 PM
Tell your bro to polymorph the party fighters. Poly the monk into something with a lot of arms, poly the fighters into beasties that can still swing a weapon.



Did the Hydra flank? Remember Hydras reach is 5 feet les than its space.
Hydras have reach like a horse of their size.

Dude, it's a 9th level character that turns into a freakin hydra for ungodly amounts of sneak attacks. Whether or not it 'flanks' isn't quite the issue.

BrokenButterfly
2007-05-05, 07:00 PM
Yep, thats one flanking hydra. Powerful tank on one side, flanking sneaka-hydra on the other spells death for all. Even constructs...

Laurellien
2007-05-05, 07:43 PM
Yep, thats one flanking hydra. Powerful tank on one side, flanking sneaka-hydra on the other spells death for all. Even constructs...

I'll have you know I'm not a tank, I'm more of punching cushion with a sting.

Oh, and I have information about our party that will make you pleasantly surprised (read: horrified and a mental case)

And darn straight you're coming in for abuse, you nerf just about anything that this player does which isn't strictly below average. I mean, you stopped him from making himself LOOK like a bear with alter self, despite the fact he was wasting a spell in combat which would have no tactical advantage... I mean, you're acting like it's his fault?