Player Character Lycanthropes

[Darksidebro]

Hello everyone just a quick question here.

Do you agree with player's playing Lycanthropes as-is? Or do you opt to change something? I think the "immunity to non-silver non-magical weapons" trait is rediculous to use for Player Characters. Even giving them Resistance instead is still kinda overpowered..

And yes I know it says the DM has the power to take over the character until lycanthropy is cured, but I'm not worried about that. A player wants to play a Wereboar. I think it's a great backstory and idea, just iffy on the balance of it.

So, what's a DM to do?

[Daishain]

Why does he want to play a wereboar? Is it primarily due to it being a neat idea, or just because he wants the power boost?

If it is the latter, tell him no. If he persists, replace the player. You don't need to be messing with that crap.

If it is the former, work with the player on toning down the advantages so there isn't a notable power imbalance with the other players. If need be, start cutting his base racial features, or adding mechanical disadvantages

(alternatively, you could give the other players boosts of similar power that fit with their character concept, but that isn't recommended unless that's the kind of campaign you want to run)

[Darksidebro]

Why does he want to play a wereboar? Is it primarily due to it being a neat idea, or just because he wants the power boost?

If it is the latter, tell him no. If he persists, replace the player. You don't need to be messing with that crap.

If it is the former, work with the player on toning down the advantages so there isn't a notable power imbalance with the other players. If need be, start cutting his base racial features, or adding mechanical disadvantages

(alternatively, you could give the other players boosts of similar power that fit with their character concept, but that isn't recommended unless that's the kind of campaign you want to run)

It's definitely not for a power boost. This player regularly chooses not-optimal designs and the such for flavor.

[Flashy]

I'd let them play a shifter from the eberron unearthed arcana (http://media.wizards.com/2015/downloads/dnd/UA_Eberron_v1.pdf) and just call it a wereboar. It's probably the best pre-existing fix you're going to find. For a wereboar I'd probably go with longtooth shifter with the bite attack refluffed as a gore.

[RazDelacroix]

As I do not have my Monster Manual on hand, all I can really do is throw out some ideas.

Personally, I would allow a PC to be a lycanthrope. Since the character, if we are nice DM's, should be in control of themselves it would make since to tone-down the respective monstrous aspects for playability reasons. Full-on monster superness is reserved for those poor souls who either cannot control their bestial aspects, or those who were never PC's to begin with!

Perhaps we can have the character use a Reaction in order to benefit from Resistance vs. non-silver weapons? At least until level 8 or 10 where it should be a constant factor. At whatever level that resistance becomes baseline we can have the PC use a Reaction in order to be Immune to non-silver weapons.

The afflicted/natural/whatever/experimented/awizarddidit PC should have Advantage on ability checks when dealing with beasts that correspond with whatever animal they derive from (In Our Case; boars and pigs!). Natural critters would 'smell' that our PC is 'one of us! one of us!' and at least be neutral / non-hostile. And the PC may find their taste for bacon GONE. Unless they're cannibals.

[Kurt Kurageous]

I'd say sure, but make the disease progressively manifest.

Initially, no effect beyond those mentioned (sympathy for pigs, etc) and waking up to find your room a mess one night a month.

Once the party has leveled, start mixing in awareness. And this is curable as it is a disease, so NPCs may want to "fix" him.

[Daishain]

Once the party has leveled, start mixing in awareness. And this is curable as it is a disease, so NPCs may want to "fix" him.
Curse actually. Still fixable, but it takes more than a level one paladin to do it.

[Giant2005]

I second the Shifter idea.
Were-creatures really are just far too powerful compared to everyone else - I played a Were-creature in a Gestalt game once (I chose to instead be a were-bear rather than having a Gestalt class) and even then he was significantly more powerful than everyone else. If the others don't have some hefty advantages, he will seriously outshine them.
If you don't want to take the Shifter route, I'd suggest letting him be a were-boar and just beefing everyone else up and shifting up the general power level of your campaign. Give the others an epic boon or two of choice and if they choose their boon/s wisely enough, they should be on a comparable level to a Were-Boar.

[Xetheral]

Why does he want to play a wereboar? Is it primarily due to it being a neat idea, or just because he wants the power boost?

If it is the latter, tell him no. If he persists, replace the player. You don't need to be messing with that crap.

I highly recommend against replacing players on the grounds that they persist in making a request after being turned down. That's a good way to get a reputation as a power-hungry DM ("Thou questioneth my will?!? Begone from mine sight!" [sic])

Instead, if the request is impossible, I recommend learning to say no nicely in as many different ways as possible. Players will ask you for things, and if you turn them down they'll ask again. It's part of the job, and in my opinion a far cry from valid cause to expel a player.

[Daishain]

I highly recommend against replacing players on the grounds that they persist in making a request after being turned down. That's a good way to get a reputation as a power-hungry DM ("Thou questioneth my will?!? Begone from mine sight!" [sic])

Instead, if the request is impossible, I recommend learning to say no nicely in as many different ways as possible. Players will ask you for things, and if you turn them down they'll ask again. It's part of the job, and in my opinion a far cry from valid cause to expel a player.
Perhaps I should clarify. There's questioning a decision, and then there's whining about not getting something you want and/or repeatedly hunting for ways to break the DM's game. It is the latter category I don't recommend putting up with, that's no fun for anyone to mess with.

[Xetheral]

Perhaps I should clarify. There's questioning a decision, and then there's whining about not getting something you want and/or repeatedly hunting for ways to break the DM's game. It is the latter category I don't recommend putting up with, that's no fun for anyone to mess with.

Thanks for clarifying!

[Rhaegar14]

I mean, you could pretty easily refluff Barbarian rage to be a were-creature transformation. Especially if you mixed in Shifter for the natural weapon. Maybe take the bear totem 3rd level ability, then swap out the vulnerability to psychic damage for vulnerability to silver weapons.

[ZenBear]

I want both my Dwarf Bearbarian and Selunite Cleric to become werebears.

I bet nobody suspected I liked bears.

[Mjolnirbear]

Bears are great. Yay Tidal Wave!

[Shining Wrath]

It sounds like a good player who will have fun with this. But what of the other players? It is tedious when a character is overpowered compared to the others, even with good players.

In game choices have in game consequences. If lycanthropy is common in your world, than so are silver weapons; one would begat the other. So if the entire party weres, there ought to be silvered weapons for sale next to the radishes in a village market. If the entire party has power boosts of a different sort, maybe not; but now you've bought yourself a headache.

There are ways to limit the power of a wereboar; one of the most obvious is that the transformation only occurs on nights of the full moon and is completely involuntary. And there does not have to be a path to learning to control the transformation; the traditional were creature has no control, despite the horrors visited upon the archetype by Twilight and the like. You could even decree that the passive benefits (damage immunity) only apply when transformed.

Do let him do this, with an eye to keeping the power level of the party in balance, and have fun!

BTW, what class is he playing? A wereboar barbarian is one thing, a wereboar wizard might be quite another; squishy people who are actually quite tough and strong introduce balance issues.

[Arcuriel]

I once built a Werebear Aarakocra monk; the consensus on the forum was that it'd be ridiculously overpowered unless you counted it as at LEAST five character levels.

[SouthpawSoldier]

I mean, you could pretty easily refluff Barbarian rage to be a were-creature transformation. Especially if you mixed in Shifter for the natural weapon. Maybe take the bear totem 3rd level ability, then swap out the vulnerability to psychic damage for vulnerability to silver weapons.

Sage Advice just recently posted a Boar Totem homebrew; I'd try digging that up, see how it meshes. Firewall blocks the page for me, so I can't view details.

http://www.sageadvice.eu/2015/05/06/boar-totem/

[Logosloki]

Is there any particular reason why your player doesn't wish to play a druid and merely wildshape into a boar? The only problem really is low strength of a boar.

If it is the hybrid form they wish to play up you could give them the spell alter self (2nd level spell that druids normally don't have access to but if it helps, it helps). This way they get their humanoid-alter self (tusks)-boar chain which is conceptually similar to a wereboar without giving the player immunities, vulnerabilities or a bite transmitted curse.

If you wish to reward them for roleplay then a "belt of wereboar's strength" could be given to them (rare, requires attunement, sets a characters strength to 17 if it was previously lower, has no affect on a character with strength above 17. This belt still grants this bonus even if the character uses a polymorph, wildshape or shapechange feature).

[Dizlag]

I will third the Shifter idea. Refluffing the bite attack to a gore attack is brilliant.

Dizlag

[Bone2kk]

Hey, I stumbled across this after DM’ing a session this week where one of my players had turned into a were-jaguar. The transformation and ‘player character as Lycanthropes’ rule massively threw me as being OP hence my need to look for some clarification or house ruling.

We are going through the Tales of The Yawning Portal and our half elf warlock got bitten during the encounter with the were-Jaguar in the Hidden Shrine of Tamouchan. He failed the save and we’ve been role playing it for quite a while via a nasty infected wound on his shoulder that has sprouted tufts of golden fur with a strange desire to scratch and lick oneself.(!) None of the characters knew what was happening but the players obviously did so it’s gone untreated. As they exited the temple I had the transformation happen during a boss style encounter under a full moon for a bit of a twist. The session ended on a high but I was apprehensive about the PC gaining all these super powers at very minimal cost.

I don’t like the idea of taking his character off him during a session but there was no way I could allow damage immunity from non magical weapons that aren’t silvered - it would make most monsters useless against him and thus ruin the immersion and enjoyment for him and the other players. Any other way around this would feel like i was meta playing as a dm if my creatures had silver/ magic weapons or targeted him with a remove curse spell. I’m not fussed about the strength bonus, dark vision, keen senses and other traits as they add little to the power rating but I felt a balance was needed. Hence me looking here and other sites.

I didn’t really find anything I was truly happy with so came up with some house rules of my own and would like some constructive feedback on it. This is based on the were-tiger/jaguar so modify it accordingly for the type of lycanthrope your using. So here goes....

House Rules:

1)Transformation:
Every full moon transformation is mandatory. To an extent this can be predicted by the lunar cycle if above ground. The change will instil raw, bestial emotions (hunt, feed, shelter, self preservation etc) and social interaction will be nigh on impossible until sufficient blood has been spilt. For realism and significant consequence this should mean wildly murdering a living creature in a fit of uncontrollable rage (suggest small size or bigger, a rat, cat or dog would simply not do!). This may even result in the blood of innocents if no other enemies are within reach. This is to be role-played by the player accordingly but if abused then the DM can take control of the character (last resort)

Until the curse/ condition is mastered, (determined by length of time, experiences and successful transformations) the shape changing ability will be limited to once per short rest (or long rest if preferred). One level of fatigue will be imposed upon reverting back to normal form. To successfully use this ability the player must make a DC 18 Charisma check (-1 cumulative each time succeeded). Once the change has been made successfully over 8 occasions, the player will have mastery, can make the change at will, using an action, and will only suffer levels of fatigue on full moons only.

2) Abilities:
Damage immunity to all but silver/magic weapons is absurd for a PC and will break the game. Instead whilst in hybrid/ jaguar form the player will have resistance to piercing/bludgeoning/slashing from non-magical weapons that aren't silvered. They gain darkvision 60ft, keen hearing/smell and pounce as normal. They gain Multi-attack; as an action make two claw attacks (hybrid) or a bite and a claw attack (jaguar). This will not allow you to make two weapon/ spell attacks and applies specifically to the stated forms using natural attacks.

Players cannot talk or cast spells in jaguar form (unless have specific feat/ trait that allows it).

3) Equipment:
When were-jaguars polymorph they grow about a foot taller and their body shape changes somewhat to reflect a bestial hybrid version of the PC. Any equipment worn or carried at the time of polymorphing is not transformed to reflect this despite technically retaining a medium size. Weapons, shields and other tools that can be carried in a clawed hand can be used as normal. Cloaks, vests, bracers, loose clothing are fine too. Helms, trousers, footwear and gloves are highly unlikely to 'fit' a were-jaguar so are forcibly removed by the PC during the change else be ripped, sundered or destroyed. Armour is typically tailored to fit the wearer so will not be practical in hybrid form. Light armour may split, crack or tear whilst heavier types would burst, buckle or pop open. Magical rings and pendants typically warp to fit varying sized fingers etc so will work fine. Over time such impractical items like armour could be crafted to fit this form but must be carried separate and donned once transformed.

A nice DM could allow a magic suit of armour to be crafted with the ‘Beast form’ property that allows it to change shape during the transformation and function as normal. Just be conscious that allowing high AC with potent damage resistance could imbalance the game and/or upset other players. I feel there should be some drawback and compromise to this ‘cursed blessing’

4) Alignment\ Behaviour:
A were-Jaguar has a neutral alignment. If actively resisting this curse and planning on curing it this can be contended with, otherwise your actions should be steered towards this outlook and the way of life suggested by the entry in the MM. Over time the beast’s natural instincts would likely take over influencing how he behaves.

“Werejaguars are ferocious hunters and warriors with a haughty and fastidious nature. Lithe and sleekly muscular in humanoid form, they are taller than average and meticulously groomed. Werejaguars grow to enormous size in animal and hybrid form, but they fight in their more refined humanoid form when they can. They don’t like to pass on their curse, because every new werejaguar means competition for territory and prey.

Werejaguars live in jungles on the fringes of humanoid civilization, traveling to isolated settlements to trade or revel. They live and hunt alone or in small family groups.”

5) Flavour:
Lycanthropes have some minor tell tale features that change the PC in normal form whilst afflicted. For a were-Jaguar these could be 'cats eyes' - they glow in the dark!. 'Swagger' - walk with a slight sway to represent balancing with a tail. 'Longer curled finger nails' - like cats claws. 'Rounded low set ears'. 'Growl' when angered or frightened. 'Purr' when excited or feeling affectionate. 'Bloodthirsty' - become distracted at sight/ smell of fresh humanoid blood. 'Torment' - The desire to play with your prey as a cat would. 'Itchy' - an infrequent desire to scratch behind your ear. 'Clean' - lick your self clean. Plus any others you can think would be fitting to the type.

Hybrid challenges. Some dexterity based checks requiring a steady hand such as writing, manipulating small/ intricate objects may incur disadvantage due to beastial claw hands. There maybe other scenarios where your characteristics may grant advantage!

[lunaticfringe]

I was going to swap immunity for resistance and remove the ability to spread the curse.

I was going to make 2 Seperate kinds of lycans. Pure Lycans are born that way and use the book stats. Cursed Lycans (Player Characters) are weaker and can't spread the curse and just get resistance, but the child of 2 Cursed is always Pure.

[furby076]

My recommendation is to let his wereboar powers grow every few levels. Given that, consider giving the other players something too

[Suicune]

Barbarian lends itself well to a reflavour for lycanthropes, I find.

[Afrodactyl]

Barbarian lends itself well to a reflavour for lycanthropes, I find.

Barbarian/moon druid would be good. Why say you're turning into a bear when you can just turn into a bear?

Rage damage/rage resistances would go well with the new physical form.

[DarkKnightJin]

Option on the immunity/resistance thing:
Use the Heavy Armor Master DR, but have it be non-magical, non-silvered weapons that it applies to.
3 damage reduced on a hit from such weapons will help them stay safe from the common people, but anybody that knows what they're doing will still hurt 'em bad.

[Bone2kk]

Option on the immunity/resistance thing:
Use the Heavy Armor Master DR, but have it be non-magical, non-silvered weapons that it applies to.
3 damage reduced on a hit from such weapons will help them stay safe from the common people, but anybody that knows what they're doing will still hurt 'em bad.

This is actually a good suggestion! Will consider it! Thanks :)

[Malifice]

I'd let them play a shifter from the eberron unearthed arcana (http://media.wizards.com/2015/downloads/dnd/UA_Eberron_v1.pdf) and just call it a wereboar. It's probably the best pre-existing fix you're going to find. For a wereboar I'd probably go with longtooth shifter with the bite attack refluffed as a gore.

This.

This.

[DarkKnightJin]

This is actually a good suggestion! Will consider it! Thanks :)

I have good ideas every so often. HAM doesn't see a lot of use, so snatching it for a lycanthrope PC, with a small caveat for Silvered weapons, should be alright.

[Rogerdodger557]

If you are starting the game at level 3 or higher, consider Matt Mercer's Blood Hunter. One of the subclasses is called Order of the Lycan. and it works as a way to have lycanthropy in the game for characters without it being overpowered. You only get resistance to non-magical bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing damage while in a hybrid form, and you could reflavor the claw attack as a tusk attack.

[sightlessrealit]

I'm playing a hell werewolf in a CoS game. For the resistance what my dm has done is this:
In human form when hit by a non magic attack, I take full damage, than at the end of my next turn I Regen half the HP lost
In werewolf same thing but all is regened

[nickl_2000]

I'm playing a hell werewolf in a CoS game. For the resistance what my dm has done is this:
In human form when hit by a non magic attack, I take full damage, than at the end of my next turn I Regen half the HP lost
In werewolf same thing but all is regened

I'm just curious, how is this even close to not OP compared to features of other races?

[sightlessrealit]

I'm just curious, how is this even close to not OP compared to features of other races?
As a bit of reference, my character didn't start as a werewolf. They got the curse in game. The hell part comes from being ressurected by the Dark Powers infusing her with hellhound dna which altered and strengthened the curse.

The Regen doesn't happen if she is hit by silvered or magical attacks. And it seems stronger than it looks till you realize you hit 0 hit points.

[nickl_2000]

As a bit of reference, my character didn't start as a werewolf. They got the curse in game. The hell part comes from being ressurected by the Dark Powers infusing her with hellhound dna which altered and strengthened the curse.

The Regen doesn't happen if she is hit by silvered or magical attacks. And it seems stronger than it looks till you realize you hit 0 hit points.

Alright, if it happened in game I suppose that works. I haven't played CoS, so I don't know how prevalent magical/silver attacks are from non-PCs, but it still seems like it would be extremely powerful. Still, if it works in your game with your players, and everyone has fun with it, why not

[JellyPooga]

Here's a crazy thought...just let the player play. Characters don't have to be "balanced". That's a myth brought on by modern gaming ideals and tournament play. I've played in plenty of games where players alhad characters of wldly differing levels and power. Hell, the iconic fantasy tale; The Lord of the Rings, has a bunch of level 1 Halflings playing alongside a demi-god, an immortal, a half-immortal, and two high level Fighters.

Lycanthropy is powerful, yes, but by no means will it bring the game grinding to a halt. Especially if you really hammer home the roleplaying aspects. Be sure to discuss those aspects with this player before giving him the go-ahead. Much like playing a monster race, you can't just treat this character like just another human adventurer and this player should be aware of the social consequences involved.

[nickl_2000]

Here's a crazy thought...just let the player play. Characters don't have to be "balanced". That's a myth brought on by modern gaming ideals and tournament play. I've played in plenty of games where players alhad characters of wldly differing levels and power. Hell, the iconic fantasy tale; The Lord of the Rings, has a bunch of level 1 Halflings playing alongside a demi-god, an immortal, a half-immortal, and two high level Fighters.

Lycanthropy is powerful, yes, but by no means will it bring the game grinding to a halt. Especially if you really hammer home the roleplaying aspects. Be sure to discuss those aspects with this player before giving him the go-ahead. Much like playing a monster race, you can't just treat this character like just another human adventurer and this player should be aware of the social consequences involved.

The Lord of the Rings isn't a D&D campaign, it's a story. The main character in the story happens to be Frodo, and by making him effectively weaker it adds to the narrative of the story.


D&D is different though, you aren't telling a story from a single point of view. You are telling story from the point of view of all characters at once. If one PC is vastly more powerful than others it can take away from the fun of the other players. You need to adjust what is happening in the story so that other characters have a chance to shine (while also not nullifying the powerful character).

It's a challenge and something you have to consider when you are planning and playing the game. Personally I wouldn't allow it at a table as a DM (unless all PCs are lycanthropes, which gives me an idea for a One Shot where the PCs are investigating a monster in a city and they are the were-beast monsters) since I'm less experienced then others.

[JellyPooga]

The Lord of the Rings isn't a D&D campaign, it's a story. The main character in the story happens to be Frodo, and by making him effectively weaker it adds to the narrative of the story.


D&D is different though, you aren't telling a story from a single point of view. You are telling story from the point of view of all characters at once. If one PC is vastly more powerful than others it can take away from the fun of the other players. You need to adjust what is happening in the story so that other characters have a chance to shine (while also not nullifying the powerful character).

It's a challenge and something you have to consider when you are planning and playing the game. Personally I wouldn't allow it at a table as a DM (unless all PCs are lycanthropes, which gives me an idea for a One Shot where the PCs are investigating a monster in a city and they are the were-beast monsters) since I'm less experienced then others.

D&D is different, yes, but that doesn't mean that all characters have to be in all ways equal. Just as every adventuring day doesn't have to be 4-6 medium-hard encounters or even that every encounter has to be winnable, inequalities are what make roleplaying a game as opposed to just sitting around rolling dice.

If it was just rolling dice, one guy rolling a d10 when everyone else is rolling d6 is certainly not going to be as fun for the d6'ers, but in D&D things are more nuanced and the inequality isn't always a bad thing.

That said, it can be very group dependent. Some groups are cool with it and others aren't. DM-Player discussion is always key in such circumstances.

[Hypersmith]

I know it ain't the most popular solution but I'm a fan of associating the cost with levels, so I use a PrC. (http://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/SyGpdRXgx)

Yeah yeah, I know PrC in 5e yadda yadda. But I think it's pretty much all you want for a werewolf PC. You can even apply it to other types of lycans. It gives progression with the cost of class levels. It's pretty much the only way I can see PrC in 5e.

[GlenSmash!]

For players as lycanthropes I have a few ideas.

1. Shifters, Works right out of the box.
2. Refluff other Race/Class. Goliath/Bear Totem Barb makes a great Werebear substitute.
3. MM Lycanthropy rules, but have drawbacks, like it takes all you attunement slots, or replaces your subclass features.
4. Use Order of the Lycan as is
5. Tweak Order of the Lycan to be a subclass of whatever class you want.

[Typhon]

To the OP. Was the character born with lycanthropy or was it acquired in their past?

If it is acquired, make them play out gaining control. During times of stress have them work to control changing. It can be a boon but have them work to gain those boons. Until it is fully controlled, it should be a bane and cause problems for the player and in some cases the party. Give them benchmarks to reach before they can access different aspects of being a lycanthrope.

If the character is born with it. Have the bonuses slowly come online as the character gains power. In normal form, no immunity or resistances at levels 1-4, require a certain amount of fresh meat every day, and shifting twice in a day causes a level of exhaustion. 5-9 or 10 gain resistance and shifting 3 times in a day causes a level of exhaustion. 10 or 11-15 immunity and they can shift four times before a level exhaustion. Level 16-20 shifting no longer causes exhaustion.

That should keep it fairly inline with the power of the group and gives a nova option with some penalties if they try to abuse it.

Also figure out how the world looks at those infected/affected with lycanthropy.

I know there was a Van Richten's guide for lycanthropes back in 2e that was very insightful and had a wealth of information concerning the matter.