Something I've noticed about Xykon

[Krimm_Blackleaf]

Just looking over OotS again and I've noticed something: Xykon has no skeletons, all the undead minions he animates are zombies. I don't suppose there's a really important reason as to why, but it's just something strange I've noticed.
Thanks for your time.

[Ariko]

well..ghouls and ghasts too. plus the heucuva and eye of fear and flame..and maybe the death knight, if he wasnt just recruited instead. Likely cause basic skeletons are weaker than zombies (skeletons look creepier to me though :biggrin:)

[Alysar]

Xykon likes to stand out in a crowd. You see his army, you see one single skeleton and it's wearing a crown, you know he's the guy in charge.

[Chrismith]

There are probably two main reasons. First, Xykon needs to be instantly recognizable -- he is the main villain and a major character in the series, so he needs to stand out from the crowd. As Redcloak recently pointed out, all skeletons look pretty much the same, and having a bunch of random skeletons floating around would make things confusing. This leads to reason two: the Huecuva/Death Knight/EoFaF strategy. If we had become used to seeing skeletons that looked just like Xykon running around, then that plot point would have become instantly obvious. (And if the Giant had drawn normal skeletons differently than Xykon, it also wouldn't have worked, for obvious reasons.)

Though now that I think about it, I'm almost positive that there was a "Skelemen" card in the Oots Adventure Game. Have they ever appeared in a comic? One of the books maybe?

[Moik]

He has no skeletons because he kills the people he animates, so there's less than one round of rotting before being pickled in negative energy. The rate of attrition on ablative minions would also insure they never quite reach the point of wearing down to just bones.

[Rad]

He has no skeletons because he kills the people he animates, so there's less than one round of rotting before being pickled in negative energy. The rate of attrition on ablative minions would also insure they never quite reach the point of wearing down to just bones.

Yeah... very true

[Dunstan]

Maybe zombies are just easier to draw?

[Angafirith]

What are you going to use to fight against Zombies? Slashing weapons.
What are you going to use to fight against Skeletons? Bludgeoning weapons.
What are you going to use to fight against a Lich? Magic Bludgeoning weapons.

At the level range where someone is actually a threat to such a Lich, they're going to be using magic weapons.

Given the amount of metagaming knowledge all the characters (whether PC or NPC) seem to have, I'd say this could have a hand in it.

[Turcano]

He has no skeletons because he kills the people he animates, so there's less than one round of rotting before being pickled in negative energy. The rate of attrition on ablative minions would also insure they never quite reach the point of wearing down to just bones.

That's not an issue; animating a skeleton from an intact corpse just causes the flesh to slough off.

[Tharr]

Prehaps if he used skeletons they might have bone to pick with undead master. The dashing swordsman moves on.

[BisectedBrioche]

Maybe its a strategy. If he only has zombies then anyone who wants to attack him would have to fight their way through with a slashing weapon, thus they would be in trouble unless they also went ot the inconvinience of carrying a blunt weapon to use on him.

[Threeshades]

Maybe zombies are just easier to draw?

They are, but once Rich has a skeleton drawn, he can copy and paste it several thousands of times and just needs to repose the limbs and maybe turn it a little here and there. And skeletons all look the same, while the zombies have indiviual traits which actually makes an army of zombies more work than an army of skeletons.

By the way, something i wanted to ask for quite a while already:
Aren't Liches in DnD usually just creepy undead people with skin pulled tight over the bones? All the descriptions i have read describe them as that, rather than simple skeletons. (same for Death Knights by the way)

[Aotrs Commander]

They are, but once Rich has a skeleton drawn, he can copy and paste it several thousands of times and just needs to repose the limbs and maybe turn it a little here and there. And skeletons all look the same, while the zombies have indiviual traits which actually makes an army of zombies more work than an army of skeletons.

By the way, something i wanted to ask for quite a while already:
Aren't Liches in DnD usually just creepy undead people with skin pulled tight over the bones? All the descriptions i have read describe them as that, rather than simple skeletons. (same for Death Knights by the way)

They can be, but equally often they're complete skeletal (as yours truely). A lot of older modules have skeletal Liches.

Ironically, Demiliches are almost always a skull (though there was a Demilich in Die Vecna Die! that was just a hand).

Personally, speaking as a player of a Pale Master, I prefer skeletons, since skeletons are a waaay cooler than zombies, and despite being more fragile, don't slow the whole business down. If Xykon had lots of skeletons, he'd have been there so much quicker.

However, the biggest advantage skeletons have over zombies is when natural weapons are involved. A skeletal dragon, for instance, can make a full attack, whereas a zombie dragon can't (though the zombie dragon can fly.) There'd be less point, for example, animating a hydra zombie than a hydra skeleon.

However, I suspect Xykon doesn't use skeletons simply because he wants the cannon fodder. After all, Azure City isn't going anywhere, and as far as I'm aware, Xykon's not on some plot-related time-scale. Zombies are just a fraction harder to turn and a little bit harder to kill and do a bit more damage, which in this case out-weighs the disadvantage of them being slower.

Still prefer skeletons, myself though...

[Lorgarn]

He has no skeletons because he kills the people he animates, so there's less than one round of rotting before being pickled in negative energy. The rate of attrition on ablative minions would also insure they never quite reach the point of wearing down to just bones.
This is not the reason, since the spell lets the caster decide, weather to create a zombie or a skeletton. In the later case, the flesh falls of from the body and only the skeletton rises. At least according to DnD 3.0, but i guess this has not changed in 3.5

Regards
Lorgarn

[Baalzebub]

Besides, an army of zombies is more scary than the skeleton army.

[NeonRonin]

I think Xykon prefers not to get lost in the crowd- he likes standing out and being 'badass' as it were, and he probably has a mindset where more skeletons = people don't notice him as much.

Admittedly the crown does make him stand out, but he only recently got it back from Roy(gods rest his soul). So until he got it back, he restricted himself to zombies so there would be less competition for the spotlight.

As for the other current skeletal undead- Redcloak probably just didn't mention them, since Xykon wasn't paying attention to the rest of the strategy session anyway.

[Jukashi]

Xykon possibly prefers zombies for the practise of nasal warfare. That is: zombies smell.

And he has no nose!

Advantage: Xykon.

EDIT: Just realised I got that backwards. He does have a nose, or a visible absence of nose at least, and everyone else does not. But they can smell and he can't. So my point still stands.

[Threeshades]

Besides, an army of zombies is more scary than the skeleton army.
Wait let's see:

Skeleton army:
"By the Gods! An army of skeletal monsters is running towars us! They're heavily armed and we got barely any chance to kill even one of them!"

Zombie army:
"Oh noes! A bunch of shambling slowly moving corpses is hobbling towards us... lets take care of them, when we're finished with the hobgoblins."

PS: Spring attack + Greatsword = Zombieslaying

[BardicLasher]

Zombies are far STRONGER than skeletons. Assuming his corpse supply is NOT unlimited, he needs to make the most of each. A Zombie gets twice the hit die and significantly higher strength in exchange for speed. The skeleton is superior on a creature with multiple natural weapons and when you absolutely need speed, but of course, skeletons can never fly, ever.

[Alysar]

So zombies have strength and skeletons have speed. Why not have both?

[TK-Squared]

Zombies are far STRONGER than skeletons. Assuming his corpse supply is NOT unlimited, he needs to make the most of each. A Zombie gets twice the hit die and significantly higher strength in exchange for speed. The skeleton is superior on a creature with multiple natural weapons and when you absolutely need speed, but of course, skeletons can never fly, ever.


Skeletons cannot (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0442.html) fly, ever? (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0446.html)

[Ariko]

Xykon is a lich, not a basic skeleton, and the dragon is a zombie. What have they to do with the abilities of a basic skeleton?

[jindra34]

Skeletons cannot (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0442.html) fly, ever? (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0446.html)

He is a lich not a skelly...

[TK-Squared]

A Lich is stil a skeleton; just not a 'basic' skeleton. My observation is still correct. Since, y'know, Lich's are skeletal humanoids.

[Snake-Aes]

Cast "Fly" over a skeleton and say "Go There"?

They can't fly on themselves, Magic and supernaturals should do the trick

[MReav]

Zombies are more durable, which is good when dealing with lots and lots of low level NPCs. They're also harder to turn (Skeletons have the base HD while zombies have double the base HD).

Besides, they're funnier (braiiiins...), and zombies are far more prevalent of our popular culture, as opposed to mindless animated skeletons (pretty much the old Jason and the Argonaughts stand out)

[taraxia]

A Lich is stil a skeleton; just not a 'basic' skeleton. My observation is still correct. Since, y'know, Lich's are skeletal humanoids.

Actually, the MM says liches still have their flesh stretched thinly over their bones.

[taraxia]

Wait let's see:

Skeleton army:
"By the Gods! An army of skeletal monsters is running towars us! They're heavily armed and we got barely any chance to kill even one of them!"

Zombie army:
"Oh noes! A bunch of shambling slowly moving corpses is hobbling towards us... lets take care of them, when we're finished with the hobgoblins."

PS: Spring attack + Greatsword = Zombieslaying

Zombies aren't *that* much slower, a single-action round hardly matters when you're fighting a big horde of low-level NPCs so you can just stand and fight, and a greatclub does the exact same thing to skeletons.

[Runolfr]

well..ghouls and ghasts too. plus the heucuva and eye of fear and flame..and maybe the death knight, if he wasnt just recruited instead. Likely cause basic skeletons are weaker than zombies (skeletons look creepier to me though)

Redcloak specifically said he create all of the Xykon impersonators, including the Death Knight.

[Baalzebub]

Wait let's see:

PS: Spring attack + Greatsword = Zombieslaying


Ps: Spring attack + Greatclub = Skeletonslaying.

[Cifer]

While zombies have the 1HD-advantage (= 4 levels of cleric necessary to destroy), skeletons would be practical in this battle too - when was the last time you saw an Azurian with a bludgeoning weapon? We've seen spears, swords and IIRC helbards till now...

[demont]

the deathnight is nothing like the real xykon.

[demont]

the deathnight is nothing like the real xykon.

:xykon: die die die!!!
:xykon: who are you?

[Zienth]

If you take a fairly fresh corpse that still has its flesh and skin and animate it, you'd get a zombie (or maybe a ghoul or ghast). If the flesh has rotted away, you'd get a skeleton. If you've got a fresh corpse and want a skeleton, you have to fillet it first. Messy and time-consuming. :smallyuk:

Xykon has a source of fresh corpses, so he has an army of zombies, ghouls, and ghasts. Give them a few months and he'd have an army of skeletons. :smallsmile:

Zienth

[BobTheDog]

PS: Spring attack + Greatsword = Zombieslaying


Ps: Spring attack + Greatclub = Skeletonslaying.

Except Zombies can half-charge, and Skeletons can reach you after you spring.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Maybe zombies are just easier to draw?


I thought that was obvious... some people read way too far into these things.

[Alysar]

You don't think he draws each panel individually by hand, do you? He uses Adobe Illustrator. He would only have to draw it once and then copy and paste the head and body from then on.

[Dunstan]

I thought that was obvious... some people read way too far into these things.

I couldn't draw a straight line if I had a gun to my head. So, yeah, it was a serious question. Oh well.