Brand new player, Having lots of trouble picking a class

[insidiousraven]

This is my first time playing a tabletop game, and I'm really excited! Unfortunately, I'm having a terrible time trying to pick a class. At first I wanted to be a cleric, but then maybe a wizard, and now maybe a paladin? If you could help me that'd be great!

Conditions of our game:

Only 3 players, so a really small party. Two others are a barbarian and a bard that will focus on minor heals and rogue stuff
No idea what the campaign will be


Technical stuff I like

I want to be an elf or a half-elf
I want to be able to do decent damage. We're so small, I think everyone needs to be able to help kill
I want to be able to heal - I usually play a healer class in online RPGs and am slightly terrified of not being able to heal at all.


Background I like (not so concerned about this, I'm pretty sure I can craft my background to be what I want around any class)

a dark past and be mysterious or sneaky
lots of underground connections, think dirty taverns and black market
be aloof, maybe a bit jaded, generally a good person but not afraid to get hands dirty. Thinking Chaotic Good
Shunned by her people, completely alone in the world


Classes that have been appealing to me so far: Death cleric, Wizard/Fighter, Vengeance Paladin, cleric/rogue?

Any help you could give me would be amazing. I'm mostly worried about us failing because we don't have the right makeup of classes.

Thanks!

[WickerNipple]

Half-Elf dexterity based Paladin seems perfect for what you describe.

Rapier + Shield, Dueling style at lvl 2.

Criminal or Urchin or Charlatan background.

[Shining Wrath]

Both Paladin and Ranger have offensive capability and get Cure Wounds on their spell lists.

Ranger can fit very nicely with Wood Elf - it's an iconic pairing. Take Hunter archetype and archery specialization and pew-pew-pew wildly; you'll deal much scathe. As a Ranger, perhaps you don't come into town often, and when you do, you like the poor neighborhoods and the "dive' taverns rather than the nice places where people look at you funny. Thus, your friends in town tend toward the ... unsavory.

[insidiousraven]

Half-Elf dexterity based Paladin seems perfect for what you describe.

Rapier + Shield, Dueling style at lvl 2.

Criminal or Urchin or Charlatan background.

Thanks for the input! What type of oath would you suggest? I'm really lost as far as what kind of offence style I would have for the oaths

[Steampunkette]

Warlock would make you the biggest damage dealer on the team, give your party some arcane lore, and offer you a bit of self-healing (depending on spells, patron, and invocations)

[Ramshack]

Well you've already got all your utility arcane spells from the bard, Barbarian is simultaneously one of the best offensive and defensive characters.

I see a few options:

Paladin - 5th level spells - Heals, heavy plate, great damage potential. Example build (2 Fighter-18 paladin is great)

Ranger - 5th level spells - Heals, Medium Armor, great early game damage, and good damage later on. Example Build (2 fighter -18 ranger)

Druid - 9th level spells - Heals - Light Armor - Moon Druid gives good damage potential through wild shaped forms. Example Build (20 Druid)

Cleric - 9th level spells - Heals - Heavy Armor - Taking Tempest or War Cleric and you can be doing competent melee damage with good spell damage later on. Example Build (3 Fighter - 17 Cleric)

Warlock - 9th level spells (sort of) - Bladelock, Path Fiend, and you can regain temporary HP and gain self healing through some spell effects. A level of Fighter is probably good for second wind, a fighting style and armor is a good choice Example Build (2 Fighter-18 Warlock)

Wood Elf makes a great Ranger, Druid or Cleric, Half Elf makes a better paladin or warlock.

[DracoKnight]

Thanks for the input! What type of oath would you suggest? I'm really lost as far as what kind of offence style I would have for the oaths

Vengeance is good because they get the spell Hunter's Mark. I would also recommend you look at Devotion, which once per short rest, for a minute (10 rounds of combat) gets a magic weapon through their Channel Divinity. Plus the Oath of Devotion gets more Cleric-y things if I'm not mistaken. But, I think, Vengeance is accepted as the best damage-dealing Paladin. They definitely have the best capstone.

[ZenBear]

Thanks for the input! What type of oath would you suggest? I'm really lost as far as what kind of offence style I would have for the oaths

Depends on your character's background. Nature-loving hippie? Oath of Ancients. Lost your parents to a backalley mugging? Oath of Vengeance. Goodie two shoes? Oath of Devotion. Total badass vigilante? Oath of Blood. 😉

[insidiousraven]

Oath of Blood. 😉

What's that?

[JellyPooga]

I know you have a Bard doing Rogue-y stuff, but Rogue might be a solid choice for you. Take the Hermit Background for Medicine and Herbalism kit proficiency, put expertise into Medicine. Aim for the Thief Archetype; Fast Hands allows you to "Use an Item" as a Bonus Action; use this with Healer's Kits. You've got a battlefield medic with good damage output from sneak attack.

[DracoKnight]

What's that?

It's a homebrew (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?429503-Paladin-Oath-of-Blood-Final-Fantasy-Dark-Knight-5E-Conversion-(PEACH)) Oath.

[insidiousraven]

Warlock would make you the biggest damage dealer on the team, give your party some arcane lore, and offer you a bit of self-healing (depending on spells, patron, and invocations)

I just looked into Warlock some, which I had previously crossed off my list and it fits really well with the background I have in mind. It is now a heavy contender!

[insidiousraven]

Warlock - 9th level spells (sort of) - Bladelock, Path Fiend, and you can regain temporary HP and gain self healing through some spell effects. A level of Fighter is probably good for second wind, a fighting style and armor is a good choice Example Build (2 Fighter-18 Warlock)

If you went fighter / warlock, at what level would you dip into fighter? I've never played before, so I didn't know if multi-classing would be advised or not.

[Ramshack]

If you went fighter / warlock, at what level would you dip into fighter? I've never played before, so I didn't know if multi-classing would be advised or not.

I feel like you can make an argument to take a 2-3 level dip of fighter with almost any class. Fighter 1 Grants you Second Wind (bonus action self heal) All Weapon, armor and shield proficiencies, and a fighting style. level 2 grants you action surge, make a second action on your turn once per short rest, always an awesome option to have, 3 will either grant you battle maneuvers or a 19-20 crit range (which works for spell attacks too)

For a warlock I like a 2 level dip, start fighter 1 then go warlock 5 (for second attack feature) and then 1 level fighter and then the rest warlock this grants you full spell casting with the warlock grants you good options for a melee gish.

[Brendanicus]

Consider a Moon Circle Druid. Wood Elves make good Druids, Druids can heal, and the Circle of the Moon emphasizes Wildshaping (Shapeshifting into animals) and being one with nature- sometimes to the point of savagery. It's easy to see a community that could shun Druids after having bad experiences with crazy ones.

[Fighting_Ferret]

Create a character not a build. Every character can do something for the group. Certain builds make certain actions easier, but there is no best build. If this is your first rpg experience, then work on the background and let that guide your build. Look at the skill list and ask would this character know how to do this? If so, is it something they would use a lot in their background? Then consider a better attribute in that stat or use a skill proficiency. Simply asking about your character's motivations and methods will guide you to the correct class and attribute score distribution.

[rhouck]

I'd add my vote for Moon Druid. They are very versatile. You can scout, you can take a beating, you can deal decent damage (a ton at levels 2-4!), you have a variety of spells, including healing.

Especially since it's your first time, I think it's a class that is a great choice. You can start simple (e.g., just transform into a bear and bite people), but your tactics can evolve as you do as a player. Divine magic classes are easier in many ways, because you don't have to worry about picking a "bad" spell -- you can prepare a completely new set from the ENTIRE available list every day.

Plus, one day you can be a bear... the next a snake... the next a bird... Between you and the Bard, you'll have a ton of versatility (while the meathead stands up front :smallsmile: ).

It also meshes well with Wood Elf and being a loner.

[Citan]

This is my first time playing a tabletop game, and I'm really excited! Unfortunately, I'm having a terrible time trying to pick a class. At first I wanted to be a cleric, but then maybe a wizard, and now maybe a paladin? If you could help me that'd be great!

Technical stuff I like

I want to be an elf or a half-elf
I want to be able to do decent damage. We're so small, I think everyone needs to be able to help kill
I want to be able to heal - I usually play a healer class in online RPGs and am slightly terrified of not being able to heal at all.


Background I like (not so concerned about this, I'm pretty sure I can craft my background to be what I want around any class)

a dark past and be mysterious or sneaky
lots of underground connections, think dirty taverns and black market
be aloof, maybe a bit jaded, generally a good person but not afraid to get hands dirty. Thinking Chaotic Good
Shunned by her people, completely alone in the world


Classes that have been appealing to me so far: Death cleric, Wizard/Fighter, Vengeance Paladin, cleric/rogue?

Any help you could give me would be amazing. I'm mostly worried about us failing because we don't have the right makeup of classes.

Thanks!
I'll second Paladin as the best choice considering your profile and wishes. Since it's your first tabletop, let's keep things simple (so no multiclass). Since you already have a Bard, it's best choosing another class.

And Paladin absolutely RULES every other (except maybe Bard and Druid) in terms of balance between every playstyle.
You get decent spellcasting and physical damage, with healing, buffs and soft control.

As for the Oath, if you want to focus on protection, Ancients if the best for its permanent Aura of magic resistance. You'll also get very good spells:
- Ensnaring Strike: +damage and restrained enemy for at least a turn, always nice.
- Moonbeam (sustainable and movable area of magic damage): one of the best dealing damage spells you could ever have as Paladin.
- Misty Step (teleport 30ft): to get where you need to be, whatever obstacles are.;

With that said, if Barbarian goes Bear Totem much of this Oath will be wasted (since Barbarian gets its own damage resistance). In which case I'd suggest Vengeance. While Barbarian can tank and aggro, you can take care of the big bad evil guy.

Other good choices are...
Ranger: mainly a ranged fighter, gets decent spell slots and a nice variety of spells to damage, control and heal when really needed.
Moon Druid: you can tank/damage in melee as Wild Shape, and you get more spells and spell slots than Ranger. May be a bit complex to play efficiently.
Cleric: best buffer, a bit boring for damage dealing: basically, your usual fight will be casting Spiritual Weapon + Spirit Guardians, then heal allies or hit enemies. Also, it requires more roleplay (you're serving a god, remember?).

Mechanically, my personal recommendations would be either...

1. Moon Druid, if you like tactics/strategy games.
Very versatile in his spells, many spells slots (including conjuration = more allies), and can tank very well in melee. Only drawback is that for most of your career, you'll be either as a human to cast spells of as a beast to deal melee damage. So it's a bit more tactical to play. Potentially lots of more fun though (less RP constraints than Paladin, wild shape to let your imagination run wild).

2. Ancients Paladin, if you don't want to think too much. :)
Mainly a melee, excellent melee damage, good support/heal, occasional offensive spells. The straightforward choice.

3. Vengeance Paladin: if you want to go Paladin but Barbarian goes Bear Totem.

Also, let me stress this:

Create a character not a build. Every character can do something for the group. Certain builds make certain actions easier, but there is no best build. If this is your first rpg experience, then work on the background and let that guide your build.
Build your concept, just wonder what you'd like to be able to do. Then come back if you have any question as how to achieve this concept, we'll be happy to help. :)

[D.U.P.A.]

I would suggest a Wood elf Ranger (Hunter). Can be sneaky, loners, can heal, you can equally well fight melee or ranged and is rather simple to play if you are beginner. High elf with such background is quite unusual, because they are rather charismatic, social and good diplomats, so better go with wood elf.

[Safety Sword]

Haven't met a class I didn't like (or that didn't work if you follow the rules) in D&D 5E.

Base your character choice on the abilities you will find fun to use. Don't worry about damage, pretty much everyone can contribute to combat encounters.

I can't tell you what you would like to do, but from the things you've described I think an Paladin with Oath of the Ancients or Ranger might suit you. Perhaps a criminal background too.

My thinking:

Outcast or given a distant duty in human lands, the character has lost connection to their people and so has turned to defending nature. Nature is always there, dependable, reliable. To protect the lands they love the character has had to get involved with undesirable elements and outright thieves. Stealing the plans to the local woodcutting operation seemed like a good idea, until they were caught, tried and banished from yet another bastion of "civilisation". As if humans know what civilised behaviour even is...

[JellyPooga]

There's been a lot of recommendations for Druid and Paladin and they fit with your initial instincts, which is good. Having said that, if this is, indeed, your first foray into tabletop gaming, then you may want to go for something a bit less rules-intensive.

Paladin is not so bad, but managing your spell-slots, between actually casting spells and using them for smites, can be a bit of hassle and/or head-work. As a rule, they're hard to "get right". Yes they can be powerful, but if you're not sure about what you're doing, then they can feel lack-lustre.

Druid is again, not the worst, but is still a primary caster; that means head-work to get it right. If you're not completely up to speed on the rules and how they work, you could end up feeling like a 5th wheel (and in a 3-man party, that's quite the achievement!).

I know it sounds like putting on the training-wheels, but I would honestly recommend one of the "easy-mode" classes; Fighter (Champion Archetype), Barbarian or Rogue. All Classes you can't really get "wrong". Of those, I think Rogue would complement your party best and fit your character-concepts best, but then again, I'm very biased towards Rogues in general :smallwink: They're a complete laugh to play because you never feel left out of the action. In combat, you've got Sneak Attack, which makes you feel very powerful for doing reliably high damage without having to worry about expended resources. Out of combat, Rogues are equally useful; between more skill proficiencies and Expertise, they really shine, no matter what role you want for them. Come higher levels, if you want the added complexity, take the Arcane Trickster Archetype to add in magic mechanics to your repertoire. From there, the world (or game) is your crunchy mollusc.

[zinycor]

Make a dark knight character something like:

Half-elf, Vengeance paladin, Urchin background.

If you are using the standard array then you could go something like:
Str: 16
dex:14
con:14
Int: 8
Wis: 10
Cha: 14

Picking sneak and slight of hands would be all the sneakiness you should need, and as an Urchin you should have lots of connection on the city (criminal background is nice too), for other skills paladin may not have, remember that Half elves receive 2 skills of their choice, so you could get cool things.

As for being shunned, go for something simple like your family was killed and somehow you got blamed for it.

VEngeance paladins deal great amounts of damage and have defensive, offensive and support spells.

As for rolepleying a character liek this: I would go full on batman xD

"I AM THE NIGHT!!!"

Other than that, focus on having a good time and making your friends have a good time too.

[Malifice]

I want to be an elf or a half-elf
I want to be able to do decent damage. We're so small, I think everyone needs to be able to help kill
I want to be able to heal - I usually play a healer class in online RPGs and am slightly terrified of not being able to heal at all.

Screams Moon Druid to me.

Particularly in a small party, you'll be dealing tons of damage in brown bear form from 2nd level, and the HP sink will be most welcome in such a small party.

(+5) 2d6+4 and (+5) 1d8+4, 40' move, Large size at 2nd level is nothing to sneeze at.

You'll also have healing via spells, massive scouting and other utility via wild shape, and in a pinch can double as the party 'wizard' with many of your spells.


Background I like (not so concerned about this, I'm pretty sure I can craft my background to be what I want around any class)

a dark past and be mysterious or sneaky
lots of underground connections, think dirty taverns and black market
be aloof, maybe a bit jaded, generally a good person but not afraid to get hands dirty. Thinking Chaotic Good
Shunned by her people, completely alone in the world


Add the Criminal or Charlatan background. Done.

[WickerNipple]

Did that make it easier for you? :smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin:

[Inevitability]

Echoing half-elf paladin. Criminal sounds like a good background, giving you the shady connections you want while also giving a good reason why your character is shunned.

[Waazraath]

If you go for the dex based paladin with shield + rapier, I'd consider the defense fighting style instead of dueling, given the rest of your party. Though normally al +2 to damage might be better then +1 to AC, with a party of only three people it can get ugly real fast if somebody goes down, and at low levels that can happen easily with a bit of bad luck. Defense + first round shield of faith gives +3 AC, together with 16 dex (+3), leather armor (+2), shield (+2) and defense fighting style (+1) that's AC 21, which is difficult to hit at low levels. Meaning that if you are able to keep the bard out of reach, baddies have to choose between either a target that's hard to hit (you) or a target with resistance to damage (the barbarian).

[Malifice]

Echoing half-elf paladin. Criminal sounds like a good background, giving you the shady connections you want while also giving a good reason why your character is shunned.

Moon Druid does everything it does better re combat and healing.

Barring burst damage. Paladin edges the Druid there.

Also partially fills the caster role currently vacant in the party, while adding utility.

In a small party, the 2/short rest buffer of 34HP will go a long way. As will the 2x attacks a round. Will have scouting utility via spider, mouse and cat forms. Decent AoE spells and good healing.

[Citan]

I would suggest a Wood elf Ranger (Hunter). Can be sneaky, loners, can heal, you can equally well fight melee or ranged and is rather simple to play if you are beginner. High elf with such background is quite unusual, because they are rather charismatic, social and good diplomats, so better go with wood elf.
Agreed, it's another good choice!
Altough the spellcasting part is even less than Pally, it makes it even easier to play (just sustain Hunter Mark and hit things, occasionnally healing/buffing allies).

It's also more versatile on positioning, being a DEX based build, so can either be on front with Barbarian (melee) or helping him at range while covering Bard.

Paladin is the most balanced choice though imo, thanks to knowing all spells, and spell list being versatile.
Also, while I agree on this...

There's been a lot of recommendations for Druid and Paladin and they fit with your initial instincts, which is good. Having said that, if this is, indeed, your first foray into tabletop gaming, then you may want to go for something a bit less rules-intensive.

Paladin is not so bad, but managing your spell-slots, between actually casting spells and using them for smites, can be a bit of hassle and/or head-work. As a rule, they're hard to "get right". Yes they can be powerful, but if you're not sure about what you're doing, then they can feel lack-lustre.

Druid is again, not the worst, but is still a primary caster; that means head-work to get it right. If you're not completely up to speed on the rules and how they work, you could end up feeling like a 5th wheel (and in a 3-man party, that's quite the achievement!).

I would tone down the Paladin part. You can make it much simpler by just using spellcasting for heals and hitting/smiting the rest of the time. So I feel this class has a nice learning curve.

Moon Druid does everything it does better re combat and healing.
Barring burst damage. Paladin edges the Druid there.
Also partially fills the caster role currently vacant in the party, while adding utility.

In a small party, the 2/short rest buffer of 34HP will go a long way. As will the 2x attacks a round. Will have scouting utility via spider, mouse and cat forms. Decent AoE spells and good healing.
Well, all you say is right. That doesn't make it the obvious best choice.
As said by me and others, Moon Druid requires more thought than others. For most of your career you cannot cast spells as a beast. Meaning that you have to carefully decide when to wild shape. If there is an emergency healing and you have to stop WS, you've wasted it. With only 2 WS per short rest, you can be stuck as human pretty quickly. And as a human, Druid is generally squishy...

Also, for this configuration specifically, the Barbarian will be tanking already (especially if he goes Totem). Other potential healer being only a Bard, it will be easier to have a Paladin who can use all its abilities at any time than a Druid.

Same with conjurations: one of the strongest selling points of the class, can be totally great (although recent errata is a pain) but mean you know have to manage
several creatures at once.

Hence the warning about Druid being one step further in complexity. With that said, for someone who is used to tactical games, it shouldn't be a problem. And then it becomes a better choice fun-wise (WS, conjurations, etc).

[insidiousraven]

This has been so much help! Thank you all, I really appreciate all of the advice and clarity. I'm used to playing mmorpgs, which is a lot of number crunching. I realize that maybe I don't have to approach it that way with DnD, which is definitely refreshing!

I'll post an update once I decide what I'm doing and after my first night playing. Woohoo!

[Shining Wrath]

This has been so much help! Thank you all, I really appreciate all of the advice and clarity. I'm used to playing mmorpgs, which is a lot of number crunching. I realize that maybe I don't have to approach it that way with DnD, which is definitely refreshing!

I'll post an update once I decide what I'm doing and after my first night playing. Woohoo!

As you can see, there's lots of ways to go that would be successful. You can't really go far wrong. Have fun!

[HoarsHalberd]

Moon Druid does everything it does better re combat and healing.

Barring burst damage. Paladin edges the Druid there.

Also partially fills the caster role currently vacant in the party, while adding utility.

In a small party, the 2/short rest buffer of 34HP will go a long way. As will the 2x attacks a round. Will have scouting utility via spider, mouse and cat forms. Decent AoE spells and good healing.

"Caster role currently missing." - Bard is full caster.

"Re combat and healing." - If it wasn't for lay on hands and second attack you'd be right. Lay on hands gives it better healing at most levels than a moon druid. Combat is heavily in druids favour till level 5 then at level 6 you're looking at 84 hitpoints per short rest with 12 AC to do 2*2d6(7)+5 vs the paladins 1d8+6 with 18AC. Giving the druid (1.5)*hit chance amount bonus damage a turn. Then at level 8 the paladin does comparable damage a turn by bumping dex whilst it's AC goes up to 19 as well. At level 10 the earth elemental gives the druid a temporary boost, giving AC almost the same and nice high 127 hitpoints, but can only be done once per rest. At level 11 the paladin makes up for the difference entirely. Then there's no great changes in damage until level 18 where Mammoth can massively boost damage but only on the charge.

As it is there is no great difference in the two in healing or combat ability when ruling out temporary buffs and casting. With casting, if you use high level slots moon druid pulls ahead on healing. Whilst paladin may pull ahead in combat with the temporary buffs such as the oath of devotion one. Paladins make up for the lack of high level casting with party utility from Auras and spike damage from smite.

[Drackolus]

Roleplaying > numbers imo. And a druid with underground connections? Unless we're talking moles, that sounds tough to rationalize.

A criminal background half-elf vengeance paladin sounds absolutely perfect for you. I imagine a half-elf (ostracize story already done, nobody likes you), fall into criminal life because of it, decided that you were too nice for that and you hate seeing people get hurt so you become a paladin focused on smiting evil your way, IE oath of vengeance. Just an example, but that one's really nice and easy without being incredibly cliche. And half-elves make great paladins to boot, with a total +4 to all useful stats, and resistances to types of magic is great too. Dex based is nice for sneaking too if you want to use it. Less AC than full plate, but only by 1. Sneaking up on baddies is fun.

If you wanted to go a little further, three levels of assassin with vengeance paladin is a much darker route. And a free critical when you sneak up on evil then using smite - we're talking a potential 2d8 rapier + 4d6 sneak + 12d8 (!) smite. Then, vow of enmity gives advantage which means automatic sneak attacks. A more advanced build, but hot ****.

[Steampunkette]

Druid with underground connections is hard but Paladin is easy? What the heck?!

1: Urchin child grows up on the streets of the city, manages to escape the Thieves Guild and underworld life by fleeing into the wildlands and finds a deep connection with the true power of nature once under the free night sky.

2: Urban Druid commands rats, vines, and other life forms of the city in the service of the Thieves Guild, employing Pigeons, Rats, and Roaches as spies.

3: While studying with the local druids a young woman finds out her brother has fallen afoul of his roguish friends and must serve the guild to pay off his debts or see him killed.

That's three off the top of my head. Come on, now.

[Shining Wrath]

Druid with underground connections is hard but Paladin is easy? What the heck?!

1: Urchin child grows up on the streets of the city, manages to escape the Thieves Guild and underworld life by fleeing into the wildlands and finds a deep connection with the true power of nature once under the free night sky.

2: Urban Druid commands rats, vines, and other life forms of the city in the service of the Thieves Guild, employing Pigeons, Rats, and Roaches as spies.

3: While studying with the local druids a young woman finds out her brother has fallen afoul of his roguish friends and must serve the guild to pay off his debts or see him killed.

That's three off the top of my head. Come on, now.

Your background is not necessarily the same time period where you learned your class abilities.

Grow up in city, urchin or criminal or charlatan background. Eventually your uncle finds you and takes you to live with him - and turns out to be smart enough and tough enough that you can't make your way back to the city.

And it doesn't take long before you learn to love the forest - the smells, the light dancing, the little furry creatures going about their tiny lives. And so you have a criminal background druid.

[Steampunkette]

Exactly, Wrath!

[Sigreid]

Druid would be a solid and versatile choice. The danger of asking this question in 5e is nearly every class is capable of almost everything you mentioned. Healing is the only thing you've mentioned that limits the list at all. And that limit cuts it down to Bard (focused differently than the current one), Paladin, Cleric, Druid and Ranger. And all of them are solid choices.

[Inevitability]

Roleplaying > numbers imo. And a druid with underground connections? Unless we're talking moles, that sounds tough to rationalize.

How about a borderline-ecoterroristic druidic sect who use their magic to defeat all who seek to develop civilization at the expense of nature? Criminal as a background wouldn't be too big of a stretch.

[Shining Wrath]

How about a borderline-ecoterroristic druidic sect who use their magic to defeat all who seek to develop civilization at the expense of nature? Criminal as a background wouldn't be too big of a stretch.

Then there was the Druidic sect in Eberron that viewed arcane magic as an offense against nature - which meant they were pretty much anti-Eberron civilization. Definitely viewed as criminals, just not urban ones. Expand your thinking about what a criminal is like, though, and it's easy to have brutal vicious gangs of druids roaming the forests murdering wizards.

[INDYSTAR188]

Did that make it easier for you? :smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin:

I laughed when I got to this post! I was reading the thread thinking, "if this were me what would I pick based on this advice". You guys make a solid case for several classes and I would have trouble picking. I think I'd probably take rogue or vengeance paladin just cuz it seems to match his background choices.

[Sigreid]

I laughed when I got to this post! I was reading the thread thinking, "if this were me what would I pick based on this advice". You guys make a solid case for several classes and I would have trouble picking. I think I'd probably take rogue or vengeance paladin just cuz it seems to match his background choices.

If you think about it, it's pretty great that there isn't one answer to rule them all. It's a good sign for the game.

[KorvinStarmast]

The eco-terrorist druid (Moon Druid) is a nice take on the mix of character background desired, and lends itself to some excellent Smokey The Bear moments -- with attitude -- should the player so desire. :smallbiggrin:

[INDYSTAR188]

If you think about it, it's pretty great that there isn't one answer to rule them all. It's a good sign for the game.

Completely agree! I hope there is an expansion of sub-classes especially for the classes that have three or less (looking at you Ranger). I will say that Paladin seems to be the first choice for a lot of people when these questions come up.

[Citan]

Completely agree! I hope there is an expansion of sub-classes especially for the classes that have three or less (looking at you Ranger). I will say that Paladin seems to be the first choice for a lot of people when these questions come up.
I agree as well. :)
For the Ranger, I'd say the 4e Seeker would be an easy archetype to include, unless you consider spamming Absorb Elements and Elemental Bane is enough, but I feel there is still much place for a dedicated subclass. :)