looking for rogue feat advice.

[shadowseve]

SO I'm running out of feats to take for a melee rogue.

Flaws are allowed with pathfinder progression.

the weapons are the crescent knives from dragon magazine 275.

so far the feats I have are these.

Combat Reflexes(possibly),
Weapon Finesse,
Two Weapon Fighting,
craven
Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
Staggering strikes
Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Improved Initiative

this leaves 5 feats left and I have no idea what to choose.

any advice would be welcome.

[eternal]

this is where you need curmudgeon. I think he's the local rogue expert.

[Dusk Eclipse]

who will come in and say that TWF on a rogue is a waste of time, and most likely will suggest Knowledge Devotion and Savy rogue. :smalltongue:

[shadowseve]

who will come in and say that TWF on a rogue is a waste of time, and most likely will suggest Knowledge Devotion and Savy rogue. :smalltongue:

yeah I know it's sub-par by most standards but it goes with a character concept.

[Emperor Tippy]

Do you want a "rogue" or a Rogue and how important to you is the two weapon fighting?

Because Rogue 1/ Factotum 8/ Decisive Strike Invisible Fist Martial Monk 2/ Swashbuckler 3/ Exemplar 1/ Swordsage 1/ Mindbender 1/ X 3 feels and plays like a rogue while being far, far, more capable in all 'Rogue" area's.

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Just for feats you probably want Martial Stance: Assassin's Stance, Darkstalker, and Shadow Blade; especially if you are actually going to two weapon fight.

Assassins Stance is +2d6 sneak attack and Shadow Blade is +Dex to damage with Short Swords (and it stacks with Str to damage). Darkstalker is a necessity if you ever want to do any sneaking.

[shadowseve]

Do you want a "rogue" or a Rogue and how important to you is the two weapon fighting?

Because Rogue 1/ Factotum 8/ Decisive Strike Invisible Fist Martial Monk 2/ Swashbuckler 3/ Exemplar 1/ Swordsage 1/ Mindbender 1/ X 3 feels and plays like a rogue while being far, far, more capable in all 'Rogue" area's.

---
Just for feats you probably want Martial Stance: Assassin's Stance, Darkstalker, and Shadow Blade; especially if you are actually going to two weapon fight.

Assassins Stance is +2d6 sneak attack and Shadow Blade is +Dex to damage with Short Swords (and it stacks with Str to damage). Darkstalker is a necessity if you ever want to do any sneaking.

Thanks for the advice. I'm looking to go strait rogue, though I would take a sword sage dip just for assassins stance. this is a kinda low optimization campaign. So I'm not looking to take a bunch of prc's. I'll def take martial stance assassin stance and dark stalker.
So you think shadow blade would be better than then the crescent knives from dragon magazine 275?

[Jormengand]

If you want something simpler than what Tippy suggested, you could just grab extra feats that let you do more stuff other than hit people. But honestly, it depends exactly what you want your character to do.

[shadowseve]

If you want something simpler than what Tippy suggested, you could just grab extra feats that let you do more stuff other than hit people. But honestly, it depends exactly what you want your character to do.

I'm open to suggestions.

[Curmudgeon]

Craven and Staggering Strike are good choices. Weapon Finesse is needed, as is Exotic Weapon Proficiency (crescent knife). Combat Reflexes is a good choice if you've got some way of getting extra attacks of opportunity — which you don't.

The main problem with Two-Weapon Fighting is that it only works if you make full attacks. This in turn means you have to endure full counterattacks, which is really bad for a squishy (d6 HD, light armor) character. With crescent knives allowed your situation may be different, because you're getting twice as many attacks. If you've got a reliable flanking partner, you may be dealing enough sneak attack damage to take down an opponent with one full attack. In that case you don't have the usual squishy concern. The second problem is that with only 3/4 BAB and TWF penalties you wouldn't hit often enough.

With your specific nonstandard case (crescent knives and a faster TWF feat progression) I have a nonstandard recommendation.

Play a Rilkan (Magic of Incarnum, page 12). It's a decent choice for a Rogue, with +2 DEX, -2 STR.
Take Rilkan Rogue substitution level 1 (Magic of Incarnum, page 47). You'll lose out on sneak attack at that level, but gain Improved Flanking as a class ability instead.
Take Superior Flanking (Dragon # 343, page 93) as your level 1 feat. This requires Improved Flanking class ability. The benefit is that you get +6 to attack as a flanking bonus instead of the usual +2; your flanking ally gets +3. This benefit more than makes up for the TWF deficits.
You'll pick up +1d6 sneak attack at Rogue 3. Don't take Rilkan Rogue substitution level 3, because you need the regular Rogue trap sense to trade away for Lightbringer Rogue Penetrating Strike ACF (Expedition to Castle Ravenloft, page 208). This will cost you 100 gp to join, but the benefit is you get to deal sneak attack damage with ½ the normal dice to any normally unsneakable enemy you flank. (You already need a reliable flanking buddy for your melee Rogue, so this is fine.)
Take Craven as your level 3 feat. Craven bonus sneak attack damage isn't from dice, so it won't be halved.

After that, take Weapon Finesse and all the TWF feats as fast as you qualify for them. With at least 4 chances to hit (2 each crescent knife) you'll get to add sneak attack damage many times.

You can skip Improved Initiative entirely. Most of the time you'll be using Delay until your flanking buddy gets into place anyway, so better initiative won't help you.

[shadowseve]

Craven and Staggering Strike are good choices. Weapon Finesse is needed, as is Exotic Weapon Proficiency (crescent knife). Combat Reflexes is a good choice if you've got some way of getting extra attacks of opportunity — which you don't.

The main problem with Two-Weapon Fighting is that it only works if you make full attacks. This in turn means you have to endure full counterattacks, which is really bad for a squishy (d6 HD, light armor) character. With crescent knives allowed your situation may be different, because you're getting twice as many attacks. If you've got a reliable flanking partner, you may be dealing enough sneak attack damage to take down an opponent with one full attack. In that case you don't have the usual squishy concern. The second problem is that with only 3/4 BAB and TWF penalties you wouldn't hit often enough.

With your specific nonstandard case (crescent knives and a faster TWF feat progression) I have a nonstandard recommendation.

Play a Rilkan (Magic of Incarnum, page 12). It's a decent choice for a Rogue, with +2 DEX, -2 STR.
Take Rilkan Rogue substitution level 1 (Magic of Incarnum, page 47). You'll lose out on sneak attack at that level, but gain Improved Flanking as a class ability instead.
Take Superior Flanking (Dragon # 343, page 93) as your level 1 feat. This requires Improved Flanking class ability. The benefit is that you get +6 to attack as a flanking benefit instead of the usual +2; your flanking ally gets +3. This benefit more than makes up for the TWF deficits.
You'll pick up +1d6 sneak attack at Rogue 3. Don't take Rilkan Rogue substitution level 3, because you need the regular Rogue trap sense to trade away for Lightbringer Rogue Penetrating Strike ACF (Expedition to Castle Ravenloft, page 208). This will cost you 100 gp to join, but the benefit is you get to deal sneak attack damage with ½ the normal dice to any normally unsneakable enemy you flank. (You already need a reliable flanking buddy for your melee Rogue, so this is fine.)
Take Craven as your level 3 feat. Craven bonus sneak attack damage isn't from dice, so it won't be halved.

After that, take Weapon Finesse and all the TWF feats as fast as you qualify for them. With 4 chances to hit (2 each crescent knife) you'll get to add sneak attack damage many times.

You can skip Improved Initiative entirely. Most of the time you'll be using Delay until your flanking buddy gets into place anyway, so better initiative won't help you.

I'm playing with a crusader so I'll always have a flanking partner. Thanks for the advice man. I'll look into all of this.

[Garagos]

How high is the campaign going? If you go epic, have the Opportunist ability, and take Sneak Attack of Opportunity when you can, the Double Hit feat would be nice to pick up in preparation for that epic feat.

[shadowseve]

How high is the campaign going? If you go epic, have the Opportunist ability, and take Sneak Attack of Opportunity when you can, the Double Hit feat would be nice to pick up in preparation for that epic feat.

we are going to lv-20

[Emperor Tippy]

Thanks for the advice. I'm looking to go strait rogue, though I would take a sword sage dip just for assassins stance. this is a kinda low optimization campaign. So I'm not looking to take a bunch of prc's. I'll def take martial stance assassin stance and dark stalker.
So you think shadow blade would be better than then the crescent knives from dragon magazine 275?

If you are using Crescent Knives then I would look at three levels of Swashbuckler to add Int to all of your attacks. I would also not take Assassin's Stance or Shadow Blade.

It does make me even more inclined to tell you to go Rogue 6/ Invisible Fist Decisive Strike Martial Monk 2/ Swashbuckler 3/ Factotum 8/ Exemplar 1 though.

Oh yes, remember to enchant your Knives with Collision.

[Troacctid]

If you're going into high levels, you could be an elderly kobold with the Dragonwrought feat (to change your creature type to dragon). Dragons of old age or older can select epic feats without being epic-level, so you could pick up Lingering Strike, which effectively doubles all your sneak attack damage.