Reach weapon. Yay or nay?

[Unbodied]

I'm thinking of making a Cryptic: Brutal Disruptor with a viking theme with a two-handed weapon. However I'm having some trouble picking the weapon type, I want it to be vikingy/norse mythologyish. The dwarven longaxe seems like a perfect fit fluff wise, forged by dwarves and designed to kill giants. Plus its an axe. On the other hand when I try to imagine what an axe with Reach would look like it ended seeming kind of silly and a google image search confirmed my fear. I could just go with the simple longspear for a Reach weapon, it would save me the effort of getting a workaround for the proficiency issue but it doesn't deal much damage. And Reach weapons can't be used against adjacent foes so is the extra reach really worth it?

What have your experiences with Reach weapons been? Are they any good?

[tiornys]

My only experience with a (non-spiked chain) reach weapon in 3.5 was on a gestalt, large sized Half-Dragon (don't remember the build details). On that character, between the polearm getting me to a 15' reach, having natural weapons to fill the hole as needed, and the general ridiculousness of what we were doing, it was totally worth it. In normal play with standard humanoid races, I always felt like reach weapons gave up too much for what you got in return. When I played weapon-based characters, I was always happiest going one-handed with shield or figuring out ways to get enough static damage to make dual-wielding worthwhile. In your case, I'd probably look at one of the non-reach superior two-handers--although I should caveat that by noting that I have no idea what a Cryptic: Brutal Disruptor is.

[Unbodied]

My only experience with a (non-spiked chain) reach weapon in 3.5 was on a gestalt, large sized Half-Dragon (don't remember the build details). On that character, between the polearm getting me to a 15' reach, having natural weapons to fill the hole as needed, and the general ridiculousness of what we were doing, it was totally worth it. In normal play with standard humanoid races, I always felt like reach weapons gave up too much for what you got in return. When I played weapon-based characters, I was always happiest going one-handed with shield or figuring out ways to get enough static damage to make dual-wielding worthwhile. In your case, I'd probably look at one of the non-reach superior two-handers--although I should caveat that by noting that I have no idea what a Cryptic: Brutal Disruptor is.
A Cryptic is a psionic rogue like class with limited manifesting abilities and a ranged attack called Disrupt Pattern that deals extra damage to favored enemies which you can switch between with psionic focus but which can only be used once per turn. The Brutal Disruptor is a Cryptic archetype that lets you add the Disrupt Pattern ability to all your melee attacks but gives up a lot of trap related skills (though I managed to get some of it back with traits). It has d8 HD/Average BAB and can learn minor metamorphosis which gives me the option of increasing my size and gaining natural attacks. As a brutal disruptor I should be able to channel Disrupt Pattern through melee natural attacks and if not there's a cheap psionic item for that.

Would gaining a bite attack mitigate the disadvantage of Reach weapons? Does increasing my size make Reach weapons awesome or redundant?

[MukkTB]

If you go reach weapon you can overcome the problem about threatening adjacent squares by using a spiked gauntlet.

[Unbodied]

If you go reach weapon you can overcome the problem about threatening adjacent squares by using a spiked gauntlet.
Neat. Thanks. :)

[Grod_The_Giant]

Since most of your damage comes from assorted external factors (strength, power attack, favored enemy, etc), weapon damage die isn't a big deal-- you're probably better off with the longspear than spending a feat for a few extra points of average damage.

[Unbodied]

Since most of your damage comes from assorted external factors (strength, power attack, favored enemy, etc), weapon damage die isn't a big deal-- you're probably better off with the longspear than spending a feat for a few extra points of average damage.Actually I'm starting at level 10 so I was thinking of getting an Intelligent Item with built in proficiency or seeing if I could convince my GM to let me use the old version of the Family Heirloom trait with the heirloom being intelligent since it seems like it a combination that could backfire hilariously and also fits the viking theme really well. But aside from the longspear none of the two handed weapons really seemed to completely fit the theme, those guys were more about weapons in one hand and shield in the other. Sadly Cryptics don't get shield proficiency and the only martial weapon they're good with is the rapier.

[frost890]

Talk to your GM about swapping proficiency to match the theme of the Character. Spear for the rapier. Also for spears I think there was a feat somewhere that let's you use the back end of the two handed weapon as a blunt weapon if you have not used it in that round a reach weapon. Like a staff. Also I thought that vikings usually threw the spear and then switched to the longsword. The spear was used to split the shield or weight it down so that they had to ditch their shield.

[Unbodied]

Talk to your GM about swapping proficiency to match the theme of the Character. Spear for the rapier. Also for spears I think there was a feat somewhere that let's you use the back end of the two handed weapon as a blunt weapon if you have not used it in that round a reach weapon. Like a staff. Also I thought that vikings usually threw the spear and then switched to the longsword. The spear was used to split the shield or weight it down so that they had to ditch their shield.
Hm? I can already use spears. They're pretty much the only decent two handed simple weapons. If I can swap out my rapier proficiency it makes more sense to switch to a longsword since there aren't any viking like one handed martial spears while I'm pretty sure you can use the longsword with both hands.

[ComaVision]

I always go for reach weapons on martial characters. Anyone that comes up to you eats an AoO.

[Unbodied]

I always go for reach weapons on martial characters. Anyone that comes up to you eats an AoO.
Yeah the longspear is looking pretty good. Especially since as a Cryptic I get minor metamorphosis at level 1 so for the piddling cost of 1 PP I can increase my size category and increase my reach even more. If I spend 2 PP to Augment it I can grab a natural attack in case people get close and either boost stats/ac or grab the Cleave feat which should be really easy to use with the reach I'LL have at that point.

P.S
Any thoughts on special materials in your weapon?

[HammeredWharf]

Here's a question: can your character avoid AoOs? Because if he can't, without a Reach weapon he'll have to eat an AoO every time he approaches a larger opponent, which is often in D&D.

As for Reach weapons in general, many swear by the Spiked Chain, but I've made a lot of builds without it and didn't find it that impressive. Generally, you can just take a longspear (or a guisarme, if you're a tripper) and be fine. Keep in mind that Reach weapons follow ranged weapon rules when it comes to hitting around corners and through enemies. It's usually not a big deal. However, here's another restriction: charging can be more difficult with a Reach weapon. Why? Because...


You must move at least 10 feet (2 squares) and may move up to double your speed directly toward the designated opponent.

You must have a clear path toward the opponent, and nothing can hinder your movement (such as difficult terrain or obstacles). Here’s what it means to have a clear path. First, you must move to the closest space from which you can attack the opponent.

Example scenario:

You're a large-sized human without any special feats or abilities that modify charging or reach. An ogre with a spear approaches you and stops 15 feet away from you.

1) You're wielding a longspear. You can't charge at the ogre, because you're already in the closest space from which you can attack it.
2) You're wielding a greatsword. You're not threatening the ogre yet, so you charge at him by moving 10 feet in his direction.

This is a rather common scenario and why you should always carry a shorter weapon as a charger with Reach. If you do that, in case 1) you can drop your spear and charge while drawing your weapon. However, it gets less optimal when your spear is a cool magic weapon and your sword is a piece of normal metal.

So, as most things, it depends greatly on the other parts of your build. Anyway, carrying a decent spear around is never a bad idea, because swapping weapons mid-combat is usually easy enough. It's not like you have to focus on a single weapon type.

[Unbodied]

Here's a question: can your character avoid AoOs? Because if he can't, without a Reach weapon he'll have to eat an AoO every time he approaches a larger opponent, which is often in D&D.

As for Reach weapons in general, many swear by the Spiked Chain, but I've made a lot of builds without it and didn't find it that impressive. Generally, you can just take a longspear (or a guisarme, if you're a tripper) and be fine. Keep in mind that Reach weapons follow ranged weapon rules when it comes to hitting around corners and through enemies. It's usually not a big deal. However, here's another restriction: charging can be more difficult with a Reach weapon. Why? Because...



Example scenario:

You're a large-sized human without any special feats or abilities that modify charging or reach. An ogre with a spear approaches you and stops 15 feet away from you.

1) You're wielding a longspear. You can't charge at the ogre, because you're already in the closest space from which you can attack it.
2) You're wielding a greatsword. You're not threatening the ogre yet, so you charge at him by moving 10 feet in his direction.

This is a rather common scenario and why you should always carry a shorter weapon as a charger with Reach. If you do that, in case 1) you can drop your spear and charge while drawing your weapon. However, it gets less optimal when your spear is a cool magic weapon and your sword is a piece of normal metal.

So, as most things, it depends greatly on the other parts of your build. Anyway, carrying a decent spear around is never a bad idea, because swapping weapons mid-combat is usually easy enough. It's not like you have to focus on a single weapon type.I don't think so no. I can't recall any Cryptic abilities that avoid AoO nor any Psionic Feats (which I'm sticking to as much as possible since the Psionic Body feat gives me +2 HP for every Psionic Feat I take)

I do get the Absorb Weapon power from the Cryptic power list so rapidly switching between weapons should be easy enough. Most of my damage comes from the Disrupt Pattern ability and I have given up on the ancestral weapon idea since I needed the trait to make Intimidate intelligence based. So there's no reason to focus that much on getting one really powerful weapon.

[ekarney]

Out of curiosity, and because it's semi-relevant and not really worth a thread, are there any reach weapons that also threaten adjacent squares that aren't the spiked chain? Alternatively are there any one handed reach weapons?

[IronicGentleman]

Out of curiosity, and because it's semi-relevant and not really worth a thread, are there any reach weapons that also threaten adjacent squares that aren't the spiked chain? Alternatively are there any one handed reach weapons?

The Blunt Chain from CW. It's basically the same thing but worse in terms of damage and better because it is, RAW, a double weapon.

[bekeleven]

As for Reach weapons in general, many swear by the Spiked Chain, but I've made a lot of builds without it and didn't find it that impressive.
The spiked chain is the best melee weapon in the player's handbook, but it's not really a whole feat better than the glaive.

At least it's not as bad as the bastard sword. Longsword -> Bastard sword increases your average damage by 1 (D8 to D10), but with higher variability. That makes the feat worse than weapon specialization(Longsword).

[Andezzar]

On the other hand when I try to imagine what an axe with Reach would look like it ended seeming kind of silly and a google image search confirmed my fear.Silly?
Bardiche (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bardiche)
Pollaxe (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pollaxe)
Lochaber axe (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lochaber_axe)

[Unbodied]

Silly?
Bardiche (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bardiche)
Pollaxe (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pollaxe)
Lochaber axe (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lochaber_axe)None of those really scream viking axe though. A google image search for Pathfinder Dwarfen Longaxe got me this:

http://medievalfantasiesco.com/Armsinstruction/Greataxe.jpg

[frost890]

Hm? I can already use spears. They're pretty much the only decent two handed simple weapons. If I can swap out my rapier proficiency it makes more sense to switch to a longsword since there aren't any viking like one handed martial spears while I'm pretty sure you can use the longsword with both hands.

Sorry brain fart. I meant to say the longsword.

[bean illus]

A tripper can have great battlefield control, but it does take several feats to optimize it. In that case i say Spiked Chain and go all the way. Get spells and and size/strength buffs at will with items if necessary. You're not the most powerful party member, but it's fun and they love you for it.

[Rubik]

There are two weapons I'm aware of that can be used both as reach weapons and one-handers, and those are the kusari gama from the DMG and the spinning sword, from Secrets of Sarlona. Though there are feats that allow you to use other one-handers as reach weapons, including Inhuman Reach, which grants you +5' of reach on all melee weapons, and Long Reach, which grants +5' of reach on spears and +10' of reach on long spears. The aptitude weapon property would allow you to use the latter on any type of weapon, so +10' of reach on spinning swords, rapiers, or even unarmed strikes.

[Uhtred]

The Short Haft feat allows you to use a reach weapon against an adjacent opponent, and is definitely a feat that all of my NPC city guards have. The only RAW way to use a two-handed reach weapon in one hand that I have found is by dipping the first few levels of the Phalanx Soldier fighter archetype that allows you to do that exact thing. You have to wield a shield, though. Not sure how it would fit with your character build, but fluff-wise the ancient vikings were VERY fond of shield walls, and shield walls are essentially phalanxes.

[Psyren]

I'm judging by "Cryptic" that you're playing PF - if you really want to stick with an axe, remember that you can make it a reach weapon anytime you like with the Lunge (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/lunge-combat---final) feat. The only downside is that it won't last beyond your turn, so no reach AoOs.

Alternatively, use minor metamorphosis (1st-level power on your list) to go up one size - as long as you're not Small you'll gain reach.

[Unbodied]

A tripper can have great battlefield control, but it does take several feats to optimize it. In that case i say Spiked Chain and go all the way. Get spells and and size/strength buffs at will with items if necessary. You're not the most powerful party member, but it's fun and they love you for it.I'm not proficient with Spiked Chains.


There are two weapons I'm aware of that can be used both as reach weapons and one-handers, and those are the kusari gama from the DMG and the spinning sword, from Secrets of Sarlona. Though there are feats that allow you to use other one-handers as reach weapons, including Inhuman Reach, which grants you +5' of reach on all melee weapons, and Long Reach, which grants +5' of reach on spears and +10' of reach on long spears. The aptitude weapon property would allow you to use the latter on any type of weapon, so +10' of reach on spinning swords, rapiers, or even unarmed strikes.I would rather not have any feats that aren't psionic aside from Power Attack. I've decided to take Psionic Body and Deep Focus to get an extra Psionic Focus and the Psi Body feat gives me + 2 HP for every Psionic feat I take so I want to stick with those as much as possible.


The Short Haft feat allows you to use a reach weapon against an adjacent opponent, and is definitely a feat that all of my NPC city guards have. The only RAW way to use a two-handed reach weapon in one hand that I have found is by dipping the first few levels of the Phalanx Soldier fighter archetype that allows you to do that exact thing. You have to wield a shield, though. Not sure how it would fit with your character build, but fluff-wise the ancient vikings were VERY fond of shield walls, and shield walls are essentially phalanxes.Cryptics aren't proficient with shields.


I'm judging by "Cryptic" that you're playing PF - if you really want to stick with an axe, remember that you can make it a reach weapon anytime you like with the Lunge (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/lunge-combat---final) feat. The only downside is that it won't last beyond your turn, so no reach AoOs.

Alternatively, use minor metamorphosis (1st-level power on your list) to go up one size - as long as you're not Small you'll gain reach.As I said above I would rather stick with psionic feats. I know about minor metamorphosis but wouldn't using a Reach weapon and increasing my size give me even better reach? And wouldn't I still suffer AoO against even bigger opponents?

Plus people have already suggested ways to mitigate the downsides of the longspear. Spiked gauntlets, natural attacks from minor metamorphosis or carry a backup weapon.

[Psyren]

As I said above I would rather stick with psionic feats. I know about minor metamorphosis but wouldn't using a Reach weapon and increasing my size give me even better reach? And wouldn't I still suffer AoO against even bigger opponents?

Well sure, but unless you plan on getting to Colossal size there is always going to be a bigger fish out there. Generally, 10-15ft. is all you need. It's less about staying outside of their reach and more about getting into melee range and still being able to threaten an enemy that tries to 5-foot away from you.



Plus people have already suggested ways to mitigate the downsides of the longspear. Spiked gauntlets, natural attacks from minor metamorphosis or carry a backup weapon.

You can't use a 2H weapon + gauntlets, spiked gauntlets, armor spikes, cestus or any of that. Source (http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748btpy88yj/faq#v5748eaic9qw9)

[Andezzar]

You can't use a 2H weapon + gauntlets, spiked gauntlets, armor spikes, cestus or any of that. Source (http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748btpy88yj/faq#v5748eaic9qw9)
If you mean the question "Armor Spikes: Can I use two-weapon fighting to make an "off-hand" attack with my armor spikes in the same round I use a two-handed weapon? " that is not what was suggested. The idea was to wear the gauntlets/armor spikes and have the two-handed weapon in hand to use either on your turn (use the gauntlet in case you cannot step back). Unfortunately acquiring the same threatened area as a spiked chain with this combo only works with armor spikes and not with gauntlets, unless PF changed how free actions work. I cannot find whether free actions can be performed outside your turn (to drop a gauntleted hand from the weapon).

[Jay R]

None of those really scream viking axe though.

An axe with reach is a halberd or Lochaber axe. I recommend taking one of them and fluff it as a viking version, made by dwarves.

[Andezzar]

An axe with reach is a halberd or Lochaber axe. I recommend taking one of them and fluff it as a viking version, made by dwarves.Weirdly in D&D the halberd is not a reach weapon. The glaive is the axe blade on a long pole.

[Rubik]

None of those really scream viking axe though. A google image search for Pathfinder Dwarfen Longaxe got me this:

http://medievalfantasiesco.com/Armsinstruction/Greataxe.jpgThat would look considerably better if the ax head were more ornate and larger. See the ones on the far left and right:

http://www.daz3d.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/960x1248/17f82f742ffe127f42dca9de82fb58b1/p/o/polearms_daz3d_main02.jpg

[Psyren]

If you mean the question "Armor Spikes: Can I use two-weapon fighting to make an "off-hand" attack with my armor spikes in the same round I use a two-handed weapon? " that is not what was suggested. The idea was to wear the gauntlets/armor spikes and have the two-handed weapon in hand to use either on your turn (use the gauntlet in case you cannot step back). Unfortunately acquiring the same threatened area as a spiked chain with this combo only works with armor spikes and not with gauntlets, unless PF changed how free actions work. I cannot find whether free actions can be performed outside your turn (to drop a gauntleted hand from the weapon).

You cannot use them both in the same round. You can use the polearm and then drop it during your turn, but you will then lose the ability to make AoOs with reach, and you must make this decision before your turn ends because dropping a weapon is a free action. You can also use the polearm as an improvised weapon without reach, but doing so will lose any bonuses you have with the weapon as well as incur a penalty without the right feats.

@ Axe with reach - what's wrong with a Bardiche?

[Rubik]

You cannot use them both in the same round. You can use the polearm and then drop it during your turn, but you will then lose the ability to make AoOs with reach, and you must make this decision before your turn ends because dropping a weapon is a free action. You can also use the polearm as an improvised weapon without reach, but doing so will lose any bonuses you have with the weapon as well as incur a penalty without the right feats.That's a pretty stupid change from 3.5, honestly. There's no reason why a person IRL couldn't do it, and all it does mechanically is further screw over martial types.

I'd talk to the DM and see if you can't use the 3.5 rules instead.


@ Axe with reach - what's wrong with a Bardiche?Or glaive. Or guisarme. Or glaive-guisarme. Or guisarme-glaive. Or glaive-guisarme-glaive. Or guisarme-glaive-glaive.

[Unbodied]

Screw it this is getting to complicated. I'm just going to ask to replace my rapier proficiency with proficiency with longswords instead.

[Andezzar]

You cannot use them both in the same round. You can use the polearm and then drop it during your turn, but you will then lose the ability to make AoOs with reach, and you must make this decision before your turn ends because dropping a weapon is a free action. You can also use the polearm as an improvised weapon without reach, but doing so will lose any bonuses you have with the weapon as well as incur a penalty without the right feats.The question is only TWF with a two-handed weapon as the main hand weapon and a gauntlet/armor spikes as off hand weapon. It does not say anything about only using the two-handed weapon on your turn and then using the armor spikes to make AoOs.


@ Axe with reach - what's wrong with a Bardiche?Nothing, IMHO. In fact it was one of my recommendations.

The huge axe heads are artistic license. Functional weapons of such design did not exist.

[Psyren]

The question is only TWF with a two-handed weapon as the main hand weapon and a gauntlet/armor spikes as off hand weapon. It does not say anything about only using the two-handed weapon on your turn and then using the armor spikes to make AoOs.

You're actually right, I misread. Though the language of the FAQ still precludes spiked gauntlets specifically - your hands are "unavailable" while you wield anything in both of them. Armor Spikes or a Boulder Helmet etc. should work though.

[Extra Anchovies]

You're actually right, I misread. Though the language of the FAQ still precludes spiked gauntlets specifically - your hands are "unavailable" while you wield anything in both of them. Armor Spikes or a Boulder Helmet etc. should work though.

Not according to the FAQ. (http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9qw9)

Armor Spikes: Can I use two-weapon fighting to make an "off-hand" attack with my armor spikes in the same round I use a two-handed weapon?

No.
Likewise, you couldn't use an armored gauntlet to do so, as you are using both of your hands to wield your two-handed weapon, therefore your off-hand is unavailable to make any attacks.

Also, even though a boulder helmet isn't held in a physical hand, attacks with it are still either "main-hand" or "off-hand".
Since using a two-handed weapon makes your off-hand unavailable to make any attacks, you can't use a greatsword and a boulder helmet in the same turn.

A big part of understanding weapon rules is keeping in mind that the "main-hand" and "off-hand" are not physical hands.

ETA: Missed the bit where we stopped talking about TWF. Apologies.

[Psyren]

Not according to the FAQ. (http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9qw9)

We literally just covered this :smalltongue: He's not talking about TWF, he's talking about attacking with each weapon separately. Similar to how you can wield a weapon in each hand and not take any penalties as long as you're not trying to get any extra attacks out of them.

[Unbodied]

I feel a bit silly. All I need to do to use a shield is to get one made out of Darkwood. I can easily afford it at the level I'm starting at. Question is would using a sword and board fighting style be a terrible decision? Should I just get a Darkwood Buckler instead and stick with wielding the longsword/battleaxe in two hands?

I'm probably going to be doing most of my damage with Disrupt Pattern anyway so is the extra damage from wielding with both hands more important than the extra AC from a bigger shield? If I do go sword and board is there still a point in having Power Attack?

Would a larger shield get in the way of doing trap stuff or using powers like Ectoplasmic Grapnel?

[Andezzar]

How much money do you have for that shield item? An animated +1 mithral shield would cost you 5170 gp and would not hinder you even if you are not proficient with shields (0 ACP subtracts 0 from your attack).

[Rubik]

I feel a bit silly. All I need to do to use a shield is to get one made out of Darkwood. I can easily afford it at the level I'm starting at. Question is would using a sword and board fighting style be a terrible decision? Should I just get a Darkwood Buckler instead and stick with wielding the longsword/battleaxe in two hands?

I'm probably going to be doing most of my damage with Disrupt Pattern anyway so is the extra damage from wielding with both hands more important than the extra AC from a bigger shield? If I do go sword and board is there still a point in having Power Attack?

Would a larger shield get in the way of doing trap stuff or using powers like Ectoplasmic Grapnel?Shields are mainly for characters with low enough Str that wielding a weapon in two hands (without Power Attack) is pointless, and who don't want to (or can't) go in for TWF or an animated shield. Also for those who want to specialize in shield bashing. Generally, those who can use shields without a notable decrease in effectiveness (without a great deal of optimization effort) are limited to ToB classes, since maneuvers make up the slack and very rarely work better with two-handers (though two weapons do have their own maneuver trees and often work better with stances).

There are ways to optimize shield use, both in the sense of taking feats and whatnot to improve your ability to use shields and in WBL optimization. Remember that shields themselves can be utilized as weapons via shield bashing, and shield spikes count as another, separate weapon. You can enhance the shield as a shield and as a weapon, and then enhance the shield spikes as their own weapon. Use enhancements that stack, especially those like eager and warning that have passive effects just from holding them. Using weapon crystals and wand chambers is definitely suggested, and you might be able to get away with using a truedeath crystal on your shield to get ghost touch to apply the shield's bonus to your AC against incorporeal creatures.

The only powers that are interrupted by shield use are the ones that require a free hand, whether directly or indirectly. If, say, the power creates an object that must be thrown, you must have a free hand in order to throw it. Otherwise, held equipment does not affect the manifesting of powers whatsoever.

[Unbodied]

How much money do you have for that shield item? An animated +1 mithral shield would cost you 5170 gp and would not hinder you even if you are not proficient with shields (0 ACP subtracts 0 from your attack).
That seems way to much even though I can afford it. An animated shield doesn't seem any more viking like than a buckler and the darkwood buckler is much, much cheaper.



Shields are mainly for characters with low enough Str that wielding a weapon in two hands (without Power Attack) is pointless, and who don't want to (or can't) go in for TWF or an animated shield. Also for those who want to specialize in shield bashing. Generally, those who can use shields without a notable decrease in effectiveness (without a great deal of optimization effort) are limited to ToB classes, since maneuvers make up the slack and very rarely work better with two-handers (though two weapons do have their own maneuver trees and often work better with stances).

There are ways to optimize shield use, both in the sense of taking feats and whatnot to improve your ability to use shields and in WBL optimization. Remember that shields themselves can be utilized as weapons via shield bashing, and shield spikes count as another, separate weapon. You can enhance the shield as a shield and as a weapon, and then enhance the shield spikes as their own weapon. Use enhancements that stack, especially those like eager and warning that have passive effects just from holding them. Using weapon crystals and wand chambers is definitely suggested, and you might be able to get away with using a truedeath crystal on your shield to get ghost touch to apply the shield's bonus to your AC against incorporeal creatures.

The only powers that are interrupted by shield use are the ones that require a free hand, whether directly or indirectly. If, say, the power creates an object that must be thrown, you must have a free hand in order to throw it. Otherwise, held equipment does not affect the manifesting of powers whatsoever.
Guess I'm going with the buckler then. I don't want to spend feats on stuff that isn't psionic since I miss out on the hp bonus and the character is pretty strength based.

[Rubik]

That seems way to much even though I can afford it. An animated shield doesn't seem any more viking like than a buckler and the darkwood buckler is much, much cheaper.

Guess I'm going with the buckler then. I don't want to spend feats on stuff that isn't psionic since I miss out on the hp bonus and the character is pretty strength based.Do keep in mind that you cannot bash with a buckler; nor can you add shield spikes. Thus, bucklers do not count as weapons and cannot be enhanced as such, meaning you lose out on quite a bit of WBL optimization potential. However, using a buckler does have advantages, such as acting like a shield for the purposes of providing passive shield benefits (mostly for the Magic Vestment spell for +5 enhancement bonus to shield AC) without using up a hand. Granted, most shield enhancements are crap, and you cannot use the AC bonus while using the hand it's equipped to (basically negating the advantage I mentioned earlier), so Two-Handing a weapon with a buckler attached means you can't attack and get AC bonuses simultaneously.

Honestly, bucklers are kind of a waste of money, IMO.

[Andezzar]

Guess I'm going with the buckler then. I don't want to spend feats on stuff that isn't psionic since I miss out on the hp bonus and the character is pretty strength based.How many psionic feats are you planning to take? Are they useful in and of themselves? Toughness (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/toughness---final) gives you +20 HP over the course of 20 levels at the cost of one feat.

[Rubik]

How many psionic feats are you planning to take? Are they useful in and of themselves? Toughness (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/toughness---final) gives you +20 HP over the course of 20 levels at the cost of one feat.If you can swing it and your Int is significantly higher than your Con, Faerie Mysteries Initiate grants +Int in lieu of Con, which can give you significantly more hp than that. At 20th level, having a 26 Int and an 18 Con (after level-ups and magic items) is a difference of 80 hp using Faerie Mysteries Initiate. If you have Psionic Body and 9 other psionic feats (which do not include metapsionics or psionic item creation feats, BTW), that only gives you +20 hp, not nearly enough to make up the difference, and it doesn't restrict you to a small subset of feats, so you can potentially get a lot more power out of it, too.

[KingSmitty]

I'd carry both a greatsword and a longspear. Smack people around with the spear, throw it at somebody, and then pull your greatsword for your action movie antics

[Andezzar]

A longspear cannot be thrown except as an improvised weapon.

[Unbodied]

How many psionic feats are you planning to take? Are they useful in and of themselves? Toughness (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/toughness---final) gives you +20 HP over the course of 20 levels at the cost of one feat.
Psionic Body is a prequisite for the Deep Focus feat which gives me an extra Psionic Focus. I'm also taking Improved Disruption to get more damage from Disrupt Pattern; One Pattern to deal full damage with Disrupt Pattern against enemies that aren't favored and extra damage against those who are favored. I might take Improved Metamorphosis later, possibly Up the Walls or Speed of Thought if I want extra mobility.

I'm considering the Psionic Weapon feats which gives passive damage and extra damage when I expend psionic focus.
And there's always the Extra Insights feat, the Cryptic gets a lot of cool abilities and this feat gives me more of them.


If you can swing it and your Int is significantly higher than your Con, Faerie Mysteries Initiate grants +Int in lieu of Con, which can give you significantly more hp than that. At 20th level, having a 26 Int and an 18 Con (after level-ups and magic items) is a difference of 80 hp using Faerie Mysteries Initiate. If you have Psionic Body and 9 other psionic feats (which do not include metapsionics or psionic item creation feats, BTW), that only gives you +20 hp, not nearly enough to make up the difference, and it doesn't restrict you to a small subset of feats, so you can potentially get a lot more power out of it, too.
I can't find that feat and it sounds kind of shady. Plus the Cryptic doesn't get a lot of feats anyway so its not like the psionic restriction hurts it. I don't think I'm going to get a lot of use out of a psicrystal as a Cryptic and I don't get enough PP to make vigor+psicrystal+share pain seem viable so I might as well pick Deep Focus to get an extra Psionic Focus and get some extra hp at the same time.

[Andezzar]

I can't find that feat and it sounds kind of shady. According to this site (http://www.realmshelps.net/charbuild/feat/Faerie_Mysteries_Initiate) it's from Dragon Magazine #319. I don't have that magazine so I cannot check.

[Unbodied]

Honestly, bucklers are kind of a waste of money, IMO.Not going to bother with those then. But a sword and board approach could still be useful without feats if I made sure to upgrade the shield?
Would there be a point in keeping Power Attack if I went sword and board?

[Rubik]

Psionic Body is a prequisite for the Deep Focus feat which gives me an extra Psionic Focus. I'm also taking Improved Disruption to get more damage from Disrupt Pattern; One Pattern to deal full damage with Disrupt Pattern against enemies that aren't favored and extra damage against those who are favored. I might take Improved Metamorphosis later, possibly Up the Walls or Speed of Thought if I want extra mobility.

I'm considering the Psionic Weapon feats which gives passive damage and extra damage when I expend psionic focus.
And there's always the Extra Insights feat, the Cryptic gets a lot of cool abilities and this feat gives me more of them.If you like the feats you have in mind, that's fine, especially if Psionic Body is a prereq. But if the only reason you want it is for hp, there are better ways.


I can't find that feat and it sounds kind of shady. Plus the Cryptic doesn't get a lot of feats anyway so its not like the psionic restriction hurts it. I don't think I'm going to get a lot of use out of a psicrystal as a Cryptic and I don't get enough PP to make vigor+psicrystal+share pain seem viable so I might as well pick Deep Focus to get an extra Psionic Focus and get some extra hp at the same time.http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?137594-Faerie-Mysteries-Initiate

And believe me, psicrystals have a huge number of uses for any character, no matter who they are, especially since psicrystals are extremely hardy, get a lot of useful abilities, and (at least in 3.5) gain HD and therefor feats of their own.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?147603-Best-things-to-do-with-a-psicrystal

[Andezzar]

Would there be a point in keeping Power Attack if I went sword and board?Yes, because eventually you will be able to afford an animated shield. Also while the 1:1 exchange is not great you can still stack up the positive AB modifiers (flanking, charging, buff spells etc.) and turn those into damage without a net penalty.

[Rubik]

Not going to bother with those then. But a sword and board approach could still be useful without feats if I made sure to upgrade the shield?Oh, yes. Don't bother with feats unless you find one you really, really like. If you plan on taking a level or two in an initiator class, there are plenty of maneuvers that work just fine with shields.

And if you enhance both the shield and the shield spikes as weapons (with their own wand chambers, which should work just fine with dorjes) you've got a lot of good options to work with. Make the shield a +1 animated shield with blueshine or something, and make both the shield and the spikes a +1 weapon, then start spreading the following enhancements between both: eager, warning, explosive, etc. If you really want the throwing property, add that, too.

Add defending onto both shield and spikes, since they stack, RAW, as well as wand chambers, the ringblade property (from the A⪚ allows you to add a ring to each, which lets you gain the benefits of said ring), and so on. Add stacked weapon crystals to both, as per enhancement stacking per the MIC. All of the energy damage types, ghost touch, adamant, and so on.

I'm sure you could do a LOT more than just that, though. Gloves of the balanced hand will let you TWF using your shield, and since it's buffed to the nines with weapon enhancements (ie, +1 nonstacking enhancement bonus + +5 in Greater Magic Weapon + +19 in weapon enhancements split between shield and spikes, pre-epic, and several +1 equivalents on the weapon crystals), it'll make a pretty decent weapon in its own right.


Would there be a point in keeping Power Attack if I went sword and board?It's useful for extra damage, though as pointed out above, you'll need to get quite a few attack bonus upgrades in order to not whiff on all your attacks.

[Unbodied]

If you like the feats you have in mind, that's fine, especially if Psionic Body is a prereq. But if the only reason you want it is for hp, there are better ways.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?137594-Faerie-Mysteries-Initiate

And believe me, psicrystals have a huge number of uses for any character, no matter who they are, especially since psicrystals are extremely hardy, get a lot of useful abilities, and (at least in 3.5) gain HD and therefor feats of their own.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?147603-Best-things-to-do-with-a-psicrystal
Preeeeetyy sure it doesn't get feats in Pathfinder. Also pretty sure metamorphosis got heavily nerfed and can't do a lot of the things people were suggesting. Cryptics also don't get a lot of powers per level, have a rather limited spread of powers on their list and get very little PP. So finding fun power combos seems like more hassle than its worth.

[Andezzar]

Add defending onto both shield and spikes, since they stack, RAW,I was about to say that defending only works on swords, but it seems that PF has actually fixed something that needed fixing.

Oh speaking of fixing, I somehow only thought about 3.5 Power Attack (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#powerAttack). You cannot choose the penalty (and thus damage) in Pf's power attack (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/power-attack-combat---final). Also AFAIK there are fewer ways to improve the exchange rate in Pf.

[Unbodied]

I was about to say that defending only works on swords, but it seems that PF has actually fixed something that needed fixing.

Oh speaking of fixing, I somehow only thought about 3.5 Power Attack (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#powerAttack). You cannot choose the penalty (and thus damage) in Pf's power attack (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/power-attack-combat---final). Also AFAIK there are fewer ways to improve the exchange rate in Pf.
Think I might drop it then...
I only get a middling base attack bonus.

[Rubik]

Preeeeetyy sure it doesn't get feats in Pathfinder. Also pretty sure metamorphosis got heavily nerfed and can't do a lot of the things people were suggesting. Cryptics also don't get a lot of powers per level, have a rather limited spread of powers on their list and get very little PP. So finding fun power combos seems like more hassle than its worth.Psicrystals natively get some amazing abilities just on their own, however. The construct type grants lots of immunities and the lack of any need to eat, sleep, or breathe. Con -- means infinite stamina and even more immunities. Being smaller than a human hand with the ability to walk, climb, and fly allows it to squeeze into spaces unavailable through most means. The ability to telepathically speak with any creature with a language means you've got a universal translator on your hands. The ability to mind-speak over a mile of distance allows you to share information when the party splits up. Hardness 8 means it's a great target for Shield Other and Share Pain. Sharing powers with you means you gain double the effectiveness out of quite a lot of powers, especially things like Vigor and Body Adjustment. It's an intelligent creature that shares your skill points, so you can share equipment (such as healing belts, dorjes, and wands) with it to double your action economy in any given round. Take ranks in Disable Device, UMD, and UPD, and anything else you can think of that will make it more effective, and it'll be just like having another skillmonkey-type in the group. How about Autohypnosis so it can act as a portable voice-enabled bookshelf?

The possibilities are nigh endless.

[marphod]

You may want to mark this thread as Pathfinder, in order to avoid constant assumptions of 3.5 (Fae Mysteries, Power Attack being 1 for 1).

---

RE: Psionic Body:

I'm glad to see the pattern continue of using sub-optimal feats as taxes. *sigh*

Mental Note for My House Rules: Make Psionic body and similar feats like these give at least 3-4 HP per synergistic feat, possibly tied to character level (2 each up to level 10, 3 each to Level 15, 4 each after or 1 to 6th, 2 to 12, 3 after?) They should be worth taking on their own merits, and therefore need to be competitive with Toughness, but there should be reasons to take both or either.

Regardless, taking sub-par feats for 2 HP seems a bad deal. You may be better off taking Toughness for HP, and then whatever good feats you like.

[Unbodied]

Psicrystals natively get some amazing abilities just on their own, however. The construct type grants lots of immunities and the lack of any need to eat, sleep, or breathe. Con -- means infinite stamina and even more immunities. Being smaller than a human hand with the ability to walk, climb, and fly allows it to squeeze into spaces unavailable through most means. The ability to telepathically speak with any creature with a language means you've got a universal translator on your hands. The ability to mind-speak over a mile of distance allows you to share information when the party splits up. Hardness 8 means it's a great target for Shield Other and Share Pain. Sharing powers with you means you gain double the effectiveness out of quite a lot of powers, especially things like Vigor and Body Adjustment. It's an intelligent creature that shares your skill points, so you can share equipment (such as healing belts, dorjes, and wands) with it to double your action economy in any given round. Take ranks in Disable Device, UMD, and UPD, and anything else you can think of that will make it more effective, and it'll be just like having another skillmonkey-type in the group. How about Autohypnosis so it can act as a portable voice-enabled bookshelf?

The possibilities are nigh endless.
The immunities only really come up if its put into combat though.

Our party has never needed to squeeze into tight spaces and if we do I could just reduce my size with minor metamorphosis or more likely look for a different entrance since the party doesn't like scouts who go in front and force everyone else to sit twiddling their thumbs.

Universal translator is nice but the Cryptic is a Intelligence focused class. I get a lot of bonus languages.

I don't have a place for Share Pain on my very limited list of powers and I don't want to spend so much PP just to get extra hp when I have other buffs I want to use and I want to have some extra for utility stuff or emergencies.

The party hates splitting up so that's unlikely to come up often, also that has a range limit I think.

Could I get a cite on being able to share items with it? I don't recall seeing that in its description.

Extra Disable Device might be nice but why on earth would I need it for Autohypnosis? If my Autohypnosis is high I can just memorize stuff myself.

Edit

You may want to mark this thread as Pathfinder, in order to avoid constant assumptions of 3.5 (Fae Mysteries, Power Attack being 1 for 1).

---

RE: Psionic Body:

I'm glad to see the pattern continue of using sub-optimal feats as taxes. *sigh*

Mental Note for My House Rules: Make Psionic body and similar feats like these give at least 3-4 HP per synergistic feat, possibly tied to character level (2 each up to level 10, 3 each to Level 15, 4 each after or 1 to 6th, 2 to 12, 3 after?) They should be worth taking on their own merits, and therefore need to be competitive with Toughness, but there should be reasons to take both or either.

Regardless, taking sub-par feats for 2 HP seems a bad deal. You may be better off taking Toughness for HP, and then whatever good feats you like.I would if I could figure out how.

- - - - - -

Once again I don't get a lot of feats anyway so sticking with psionic feats doesn't seem like much of a downside. There's at least three Cryptic specific feats aside from Extra Insights which I might want to take more than once since there's a lot of cool Insights. Having more than one focus is pretty important since I don't have the wis for Psionic Meditation so I need to spend two feats on that either way. The shapeshifter feats also seem promising, especially if I research a more powerful metamorphosis power.

[Rubik]

The immunities only really come up if its put into combat though.You mean you've never found yourself underwater or in a vaccuum? Or in a situation where the environment involved diseases or poison? Or traps or planar effects which only negatively affect living creatures? I can think of a lot of situations where a creature with all of a construct's immunities could be incredibly useful, honestly.


Our party has never needed to squeeze into tight spaces and if we do I could just reduce my size with minor metamorphosis or more likely look for a different entrance since the party doesn't like scouts who go in front and force everyone else to sit twiddling their thumbs.Squeezing under a door to see what's in the room beyond can seriously assist with preparations for a fight. Unlocking the door to a mansion you're infiltrating from the inside would come in quite handy, I imagine. Squeezing past a cave-in by climbing over the rubble and squeezing through the far-too-small-for-anyone-else-to-get-past cracks could be great for seeing where the enemy that just collapsed the cave-in is retreating to, or even following it to its lair, with the option of Teleporting it back to you if it's discovered. Flying it up to the top of a building to gain access to an entry-point that's less well-defended would help with infiltration, as well. If you can scry on your psicrystal via its granted ability, you can use that view of its surroundings to Teleport to it, thereby bypassing any number of obstacles with no chance of error. Once you gain the ability to manifest through the psicrystal, it acts as a sub-orbital bombardment array, can allow you to manifest around corners where you don't have LoS or LoE, and can increase your range by a considerable margin.

It just takes a bit of thought in order to make use of them, but psicrystals enable a huge amount of versatility and a vast array of options you just wouldn't have otherwise.


Universal translator is nice but the Cryptic is a Intelligence focused class. I get a lot of bonus languages.It's still nice for when you encounter something with a language that you can't speak. Who chooses sarrukh as a language known, after all? Or athach?


I don't have a place for Share Pain on my very limited list of powers and I don't want to spend so much PP just to get extra hp when I have other buffs I want to use and I want to have some extra for utility stuff or emergencies. While that's a fair concern, note that both Vigor and Share Pain make for excellent choices for both power stones and dorjes. There's a ring out there of Shield Other, as well, though I think that's a 3.5 item.


The party hates splitting up so that's unlikely to come up often, also that has a range limit I think.Thinking strategically sometimes requires the party to part ways, and 1 mile of telepathic communication and the ability to manifest Teleportation powers as needed (even through power stones) suddenly means that it's not quite as big of a problem as it otherwise might be. Also, once you can manifest through your psicrystal, you can always start Disintegrating stuff or tossing out Astral Constructs or throwing up Walls of Ectoplasm as needed. Depending on your powers known, of course.

Also, there are times when the party naturally splits up. Being in town, or visiting a friendly keep, or mingling at a party are all times when splitting up is perfectly normal, and having the option of telepathic communication could be useful.


Could I get a cite on being able to share items with it? I don't recall seeing that in its description.It's a creature. All creatures can utilize items, though oftentimes body-slots are a requirement. But items such as the healing belt don't actually have to be worn to be used, IIRC, and certain items such as belts and rings would be easy enough to wear for a psicrystal with the right shape.


Extra Disable Device might be nice but why on earth would I need it for Autohypnosis? If my Autohypnosis is high I can just memorize stuff myself.What does your psicrystal do at night while you're sleeping? Does it just lay there, or does it read books you don't have time for so you can have access to the information therein when you need it? An extra 8 hours of reading time every day (as well as when you're doing something that the psicrystal can't really help with) could come in quite handy, I'd say. Also, it's perfectly legal for the psicrystal to Aid Another with skill checks, so it can give you a +2 to basically every skill you've got.

I'm not saying you have to take Psicrystal Affinity, but there's a lot to psicrystals that you're overlooking. They're a lot hardier and more useful than familiars, and while I would never take the latter, the former are all sorts of awesome if you actually utilize them.

[Unbodied]

What does your psicrystal do at night while you're sleeping? Does it just lay there, or does it read books you don't have time for so you can have access to the information therein when you need it? An extra 8 hours of reading time every day (as well as when you're doing something that the psicrystal can't really help with) could come in quite handy, I'd say. Also, it's perfectly legal for the psicrystal to Aid Another with skill checks, so it can give you a +2 to basically every skill you've got.
The above stuff really hasn't come up, having a important character only speak a really obscure language that nobody would ever chose doesn't seem like something the GM would do, Cryptics don't get Disintegrate unless I research it or blow a feat on it and Channel Power is an ability the crystal only gets at level 14, before that it can only deliver a single touch power at a time and I'm not keen on getting any of those at low levels.

The big thing is the Chrome though. I already discussed using Autohypnosis that way with the group earlier and I got an extremely negative reaction. Psicrystal abuse like that would be even worse. The group thinks its to much cheese and I'm not going to press the issue. Figuring out the mechanics of it is also difficult.

Aid Another works on knowledge checks?

[Rubik]

The above stuff really hasn't come up, having a important character only speak a really obscure language that nobody would ever chose doesn't seem like something the GM would do, Cryptics don't get Disintegrate unless I research it or blow a feat on it and Channel Power is an ability the crystal only gets at level 14, before that it can only deliver a single touch power at a time and I'm not keen on getting any of those at low levels.Those were merely examples of what you can do. You will, of course, have to tailor the use of your psicrystal (if any) to your abilities and the situation at hand/paw/claw/tentacle/pseudopod.


The big thing is the Chrome though. I already discussed using Autohypnosis that way with the group earlier and I got an extremely negative reaction. Psicrystal abuse like that would be even worse. The group thinks its to much cheese and I'm not going to press the issue. Figuring out the mechanics of it is also difficult.I'm just telling you what it can do. If you don't want to do it, you don't have to. But psicrystals using Autohypnosis is perfectly RAW legal, and it's not even any sort of rules abuse. It's just something you can do. If your group doesn't like it, that's their issue, not mine.


Aid Another works on knowledge checks?It's not in any way barred via the rules, and using the knowledge that your psicrystal has by just asking it a few pertinent questions doesn't seem at all out of the realms of feasibility.

But yes, you can Aid Another on Knowledge checks. Think of it as your own personal search engine.

[Unbodied]

Mm. If I took a Psicrystal I could get a Warblade Staff. Those seem cool and give an automatic proficiency so there wouldn't be a need for house rules. On the other hand it seems pretty sub-optimal, especially since the Greater version doesn't double the personality bonus.


I'm just telling you what it can do. If you don't want to do it, you don't have to. But psicrystals using Autohypnosis is perfectly RAW legal, and it's not even any sort of rules abuse. It's just something you can do. If your group doesn't like it, that's their issue, not mine.
By RAW it lets you memorize information but it says nothing about how that would affect Knowledge checks.

[Psyren]

It's a creature. All creatures can utilize items, though oftentimes body-slots are a requirement. But items such as the healing belt don't actually have to be worn to be used, IIRC, and certain items such as belts and rings would be easy enough to wear for a psicrystal with the right shape.

I don't know if there's a way around this in 3.5, but in PF you definitely need the Waist slot to use a belt.


By RAW it lets you memorize information but it says nothing about how that would affect Knowledge checks.

It might do nothing, might be a circumstance bonus, or it might obviate the need for a check. Though I will point out that simply memorizing something does not mean you have "knowledge" - you have to know where to apply the information too, otherwise it's just data. I could memorize several pages in a medical textbook but that wouldn't tell me when to apply them.

[Rubik]

By RAW it lets you memorize information but it says nothing about how that would affect Knowledge checks.Well, the psicrystal would make a DC 10 Knowledge check using its skill ranks. The Autohypnosis would merely give it perfect recall for any information in any book it had read, so if you keep a list of which books it has read, it should automatically know any and all knowledge in those books. If it's reasonable for the information you need to be in those books, the DM should give you that information without a Knowledge roll.

[Unbodied]

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?137594-Faerie-Mysteries-Initiate

The link in that thread doesn't work by the way. Kind of a shame since I just recalled that pathfinder viking land is absolutely infested with Fey so it might actually be a fitting trait.

Edit:

If it's reasonable for the information you need to be in those books, the DM should give you that information without a Knowledge roll.Only if you know what you're trying to recall and remember that you actually have that information stored. If you go around memorizing libraries worth of information the GM can just as easily rule that you can't keep track of what you're trying to recall unless you succeed on a knowledge check. Or they could rule that recalling knowledge from a book takes just as long as it would to read it normally. Not ideal in the situations where you usually have to make knowledge checks.

The wording and rules don't make it seem like it was intended to replace Knowledge checks.

[Rubik]

The link in that thread doesn't work by the way. Kind of a shame since I just recalled that pathfinder viking land is absolutely infested with Fey so it might actually be a fitting trait.It's buried a little ways in here: http://www.thursdaygaming.com/content/docs/greyhawkregionalfeats.pdf

[Unbodied]

It's buried a little ways in here: http://www.thursdaygaming.com/content/docs/greyhawkregionalfeats.pdf
Okay I see it.

Nope that doesn't work. Doesn't fit the character or the backstory.

[Rubik]

Okay I see it.

Nope that doesn't work. Doesn't fit the character or the backstory.Meh. Fluff is fluff. If the DM is willing to work with you, +Int to hp isn't exactly something that can't conceivably be gotten in any number of ways.

[Unbodied]

Meh. Fluff is fluff. If the DM is willing to work with you, +Int to hp isn't exactly something that can't conceivably be gotten in any number of ways.
Probably can't get them on board anyway. Int to HP is absurdly broken. I could dump the everloving sh#t out of Constitution to buff up my other stats and the only thing that would suffer would be my Fortitude saves which don't come up that often anyway.

[Berenger]

-PATHFINDER-
The dwarven longaxe seems like a perfect fit fluff wise, forged by dwarves and designed to kill giants. Plus its an axe. On the other hand when I try to imagine what an axe with Reach would look like it ended seeming kind of silly and a google image search confirmed my fear.


Ich fail to see why this weapon looks silly.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m1d79cbSIV1qho0ulo1_1280.png

[SinsI]

However, here's another restriction: charging can be more difficult with a Reach weapon. Why? Because...

Example scenario:

You're a large-sized human without any special feats or abilities that modify charging or reach. An ogre with a spear approaches you and stops 15 feet away from you.

1) You're wielding a longspear. You can't charge at the ogre, because you're already in the closest space from which you can attack it.
2) You're wielding a greatsword. You're not threatening the ogre yet, so you charge at him by moving 10 feet in his direction.

This is a rather common scenario and why you should always carry a shorter weapon as a charger with Reach. If you do that, in case 1) you can drop your spear and charge while drawing your weapon. However, it gets less optimal when your spear is a cool magic weapon and your sword is a piece of normal metal.

So, as most things, it depends greatly on the other parts of your build. Anyway, carrying a decent spear around is never a bad idea, because swapping weapons mid-combat is usually easy enough. It's not like you have to focus on a single weapon type.

You are wrong.
Sure, if the enemy stays exactly 15 feet away from you, you do give up ability to charge him - but you can 5-foot step and full attack instead!
And you can charge enemies that are at the range of (your movement + reach) that you couldn't charge before. Since circumference of a circle is proportional to radius, the number of squares you can attack with a reach weapon is going to be greater than the number of squares you could attack without it.

[Unbodied]

So I'm thinking of playing as a sword and board character. It seems pretty iconic for a viking.


http://www.archivesofnethys.com/TraitDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Ancestral%20WeaponI also discovered the Ancestral Weapon trait recently and it seems perfect for a sword and board viking. Fluffwise an ancestral sword is a perfect match for a viking and the standard viking land (Linnorm) in pathfinder is infested with Fey so a cold iron weapon makes even more sense.

Crunchwise the +1 bonus on any weapon made of cold iron also seems like a better fit for a sword and board character than the old Family Heirloom trait. Unless I'm mistaken I should be able to add cold iron Shield Spikes to my shield and get the +1 damage bonus on shield bashes as well correct?



It's buried a little ways in here: http://www.thursdaygaming.com/content/docs/greyhawkregionalfeats.pdf
Assuming the GM let's me take this Feat how would you suggest I distribute the points I normally would have spent on Constitution?

I was thinking I could dump Con to get Wisdom to 13 in order to qualify for Psionic Meditation. Does that seem like its worth spending attributes and a feat on or would it be a poor use of Move Actions?
Would it be better to buff Strength or Dexterity instead? I'm starting at level 10 so I decided to get an implanted Nacreous Grey Sphere and start at Venerable age to get that sweet +3 on all my mental stats, mostly so that the -4 racial penalty on Charisma doesn't turn me into a drooling imbecile incapable of independent thought. Plus I'm picking up immortality as my capstone ability so there's no reason to be afraid of dying of old age.

My current idea for stats is

Str 14 (+2=16) Dex 14 Con 7 Int 17 (+2+3=22) Wis 10 (+3=13) Cha 3 (+3=6)

Should I dump Wisdom somewhat instead so that I can increase my Strength instead?

[Rubik]

Assuming the GM let's me take this Feat how would you suggest I distribute the points I normally would have spent on Constitution?

I was thinking I could dump Con to get Wisdom to 13 in order to qualify for Psionic Meditation. Does that seem like its worth spending attributes and a feat on or would it be a poor use of Move Actions?
Would it be better to buff Strength or Dexterity instead? I'm starting at level 10 so I decided to get an implanted Nacreous Grey Sphere and start at Venerable age to get that sweet +3 on all my mental stats, mostly so that the -4 racial penalty on Charisma doesn't turn me into a drooling imbecile incapable of independent thought. Plus I'm picking up immortality as my capstone ability so there's no reason to be afraid of dying of old age.

My current idea for stats is

Str 14 (+2=16) Dex 14 Con 7 Int 17 (+2+3=22) Wis 10 (+3=13) Cha 3 (+3=6)

Should I dump Wisdom somewhat instead so that I can increase my Strength instead?Physical stats are easy to boost (as is Int, for that matter; see 3.5 PAO), so the Wis boost is a good idea.

[Unbodied]

Physical stats are easy to boost (as is Int, for that matter; see 3.5 PAO), so the Wis boost is a good idea.
So Wis at 13 or higher?

Is the Meditation feat worth taking or is it a waste of precious Move Actions during combat for a melee character?

[Rubik]

So Wis at 13 or higher?

Is the Meditation feat worth taking or is it a waste of precious Move Actions during combat for a melee character?Well, for one, you probably won't have much to do with your Swift actions, and Hustle is a thing. Swift action and Hustle, regain your focus, and there you are.

By the way, Linked Power is great for any psionic martial type, because you can toss out lots of buffs without losing your combat actions. There's a reason why psionicists are known for their action economy abuse, and it's there from level 1.

[Unbodied]

Well, for one, you probably won't have much to do with your Swift actions, and Hustle is a thing. Swift action and Hustle, regain your focus, and there you are.

By the way, Linked Power is great for any psionic martial type, because you can toss out lots of buffs without losing your combat actions. There's a reason why psionicists are known for their action economy abuse, and it's there from level 1.
Isn't Intimidate a immediate action for Brutal Disruptors? Or were you thinking of breaking Focus for something else?

But yeah I can see your point. I had thought of that combo but I wasn't sure if it would be best to use Hustle on that.

I don't think Linked Power is a thing in Pathfinder. Do you have a.... link? :P

[Psyren]

It's not, it's from 3.5. It's also broken to hell as written (overriding the manifesting time of... well, anything) so good luck getting your GM to port it in unchanged.

[HammeredWharf]

You are wrong.
Sure, if the enemy stays exactly 15 feet away from you, you do give up ability to charge him - but you can 5-foot step and full attack instead!

Depends on the exact rules (like 3.5 feats being allowed or not), but sometimes you want to charge instead of full attacking. Of course, if your build doesn't rely on charging, being unable to charge is not a problem.


And you can charge enemies that are at the range of (your movement + reach) that you couldn't charge before. Since circumference of a circle is proportional to radius, the number of squares you can attack with a reach weapon is going to be greater than the number of squares you could attack without it.

True, although in my experience situations where you're too far away for charging are pretty rare after a certain level, at least if you've optimized properly.

[SangoProduction]

You can always take a free 5-foot step and take a full-attack action, so for a medium character, you are never hindered by the lack of that 5 foot attack zone. I mean, the enemy can prance around in your zone without provoking attacks of opportunity, but who does that anyway? If you've got a spell caster in your reach, why would they take the 5-foot step towards you, rather than away? For melee opponents, they actually provoke attacks of opportunities from you for getting into range, unless they also have reach, or they sit outside your reach, and wait for you to move in, which means you still get attacks in before they can on you. Not to mention some reach weapons can brace against charge. The melee attacker moves in? You 5-foot step away and full attack. Then he 5-foot steps towards you and full attacks. There are also feats which increase your basic reach, and reach weapons double your reach, if you want to invest more into it.

Overall, reach weapons are pretty good, and there's really no mechanical reason not to use them over non-reach melee weapons, aside from the relatively small change in weapon damage, you're in cramped quarters, or you have a specific build in mind. Not to mention, nice DMs will let you pole vault with your weapon. (And in real combat, if you could retain full effectiveness with your spear by simply backing up when someone charges you, then you'd bet they'd do it.)

[Unbodied]

You can always take a free 5-foot step and take a full-attack action, so for a medium character, you are never hindered by the lack of that 5 foot attack zone. I mean, the enemy can prance around in your zone without provoking attacks of opportunity, but who does that anyway? If you've got a spell caster in your reach, why would they take the 5-foot step towards you, rather than away? For melee opponents, they actually provoke attacks of opportunities from you for getting into range, unless they also have reach, or they sit outside your reach, and wait for you to move in, which means you still get attacks in before they can on you. Not to mention some reach weapons can brace against charge. The melee attacker moves in? You 5-foot step away and full attack. Then he 5-foot steps towards you and full attacks. There are also feats which increase your basic reach, and reach weapons double your reach, if you want to invest more into it.

Overall, reach weapons are pretty good, and there's really no mechanical reason not to use them over non-reach melee weapons, aside from the relatively small change in weapon damage, you're in cramped quarters, or you have a specific build in mind. Not to mention, nice DMs will let you pole vault with your weapon. (And in real combat, if you could retain full effectiveness with your spear by simply backing up when someone charges you, then you'd bet they'd do it.)
Damn it now I'm uncertain again. :(

I think I'm just going to stick with sword and shield though.

[Unbodied]

You can always take a free 5-foot step and take a full-attack action, so for a medium character, you are never hindered by the lack of that 5 foot attack zone. I mean, the enemy can prance around in your zone without provoking attacks of opportunity, but who does that anyway? If you've got a spell caster in your reach, why would they take the 5-foot step towards you, rather than away? For melee opponents, they actually provoke attacks of opportunities from you for getting into range, unless they also have reach, or they sit outside your reach, and wait for you to move in, which means you still get attacks in before they can on you. Not to mention some reach weapons can brace against charge. The melee attacker moves in? You 5-foot step away and full attack. Then he 5-foot steps towards you and full attacks. There are also feats which increase your basic reach, and reach weapons double your reach, if you want to invest more into it.

Overall, reach weapons are pretty good, and there's really no mechanical reason not to use them over non-reach melee weapons, aside from the relatively small change in weapon damage, you're in cramped quarters, or you have a specific build in mind. Not to mention, nice DMs will let you pole vault with your weapon. (And in real combat, if you could retain full effectiveness with your spear by simply backing up when someone charges you, then you'd bet they'd do it.)
Now I'm tempted to go with the Longspear again. Maybe have a backup weapon on hand, if I take the Ancestral Weapon trait I get a +1 no matter which weapon I use. It has to be cold iron or silver though.

Does Psychoportive Talent seem like a good trait for a Reach weapon user?


Benefit: You can expend your psionic focus as an immediate action to make a five-foot step. You may do this even if you have already moved in the round in question, although not if you have already taken a five-foot step, and doing so does not prevent further movement in this round. This talent grants no benefit if you do not have the ability to gain psionic focus.

[SangoProduction]

Benefit: You can expend your psionic focus as an immediate action to make a five-foot step. You may do this even if you have already moved in the round in question, although not if you have already taken a five-foot step, and doing so does not prevent further movement in this round. This talent grants no benefit if you do not have the ability to gain psionic focus.

That would help those with reach weapons the most, yes. Sure, if your opponents only have 5ft reach anyway, then it's great for all melee. But, if you're facing someone with reach, all that extra 5ft step is going to do is prevent 1 extra AoO, where as if you had equal reach to them, then you could likely back out with that feat, and avoid any AoOs.
Its best application is retreat, so in most D&D games (so far that I've played), it's one of the weaker feats you can have.

[Rubik]

Reach weapon. Yay or nay?

http://img10.deviantart.net/89b7/i/2012/252/6/c/fluttershy__s_yay_badge_by_zutheskunk-d3e8usb.png

[Unbodied]

Question: Like a lot of races the Forgeborn get a +1 Natural Armor bonus. However they have an alternate Racial Ability that instead decreases Armor Check penalties by 1. As a Cryptic I only get proficiency with light armor. However my build is focused around strength so I don't really need armor with a high cap on Dexterity to AC. Would it be a good idea to grab the armor penalty reduction from race and another armor penalty reduction with a trait and then deck myself out in Mithral Hellknight Plate or Mithral Field Plate?