Advanced Class Guide Errata Released.

[Ilorin Lorati]

Available here. (http://paizo.com/products/btpy978v?Pathfinder-Roleplaying-Game-Advanced-Class-Guide) It's 9 pages long.

Going beyond "standard errata" into the Paizo-esque territory we all know and love, this has a bunch of nerfs to various abilities.

Changes of note that I've seen are thus:


Arcanist Consume Magic Item and Consume Spells are both limited to Cha mod/day,
Brawler gets shield proficiency base,
Bolt ace is now proficient with all crossbows and gets a free Masterwork one, losing gun proficiency,
Divine Protection prerequisites changed to be more open, but only affects a single saving throw (still useful for many people, but eh),
Buffs to Ecclesitheurge and Sniper Slayer

[PsyBomb]

Kind of surprised by the Ecclesitheurge buff, they were already pretty potent. Shamans got a big one from the SNA line, which they could very much use

[Ilorin Lorati]

Reading a bit further, I was a bit quick to call it a buff. The new wording on the Bonded Holy Symbol makes it so that the Bonded Holy Symbol works exactly as the wizard one including its downsides (needing to be wearing or holding it to cast), meaning Blessing of the Faithful is meant to be a replacement for your general "I attack the bad guy!" actions in combat.

All in all I don't mind, because it ends up supporting the type of playstyle that I wanted Ecclesitheurge for anyways.

[Psyren]

Anchovies and I already went through all the changes in the other Paizo thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?416971-Spoilers-from-PaizoCon), pages 7 and 8.


Kind of surprised by the Ecclesitheurge buff, they were already pretty potent. Shamans got a big one from the SNA line, which they could very much use

They needed it - they can't wear armor and have next to no AC buffs early on, they were just asking to be pincushioned. +2 isn't much but it's something, and later when you have Magic Vestment or Bracers of Armor all day you can use it on others.

[Ilorin Lorati]

What is with people being attached to that thread? _._ Paizocon was 2 months ago!

[Psyren]

What is with people being attached to that thread? _._ Paizocon was 2 months ago!

Mark Seifter (Rogue Eidolon) started posting in it, so we kinda kept going. It sort of became a general Paizo thread.

[Eldonauran]

Wow. They completely knocked the Amateur Swashbuckling feat into obscurity by eliminating the ability to pick parry and riposte. :smallfrown:

Goes without saying that I am going to ignore that particular piece of errata in my home games.

[Hrugner]

I need an errata for the errata on slashing grace. Are we removing one or each instance of "one-handed"; if one, then which?


In the Slashing Grace entry, in the Benefits section, delete “onehanded”.


Benefit: Choose one kind of one-handed slashing weapon (such as the longsword). When wielding your chosen weapon one-handed, you can treat it as a one-handed piercing melee weapon for all feats and class abilities that require such a weapon (such as a swashbuckler's or a duelist's precise strike) and you can add your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to that weapon's damage. The weapon must be one appropriate for your size.

never mind, they split the two descriptions between the summary and the full text.


In the Slashing Grace feat’s benefit, in the first sentence, after “kind of ” add “light or”. After the final sentence, add “You do not gain this benefit while fighting with two weapons or using f lurry of blows, or any time another hand is otherwise occupied.”

guess they just killed my magus.

[Psyren]

I need an errata for the errata on slashing grace. Are we removing one or each instance of "one-handed"; if one, then which?

You're reading the wrong erratum - that's the one for the table Slashing Grace. There is only one instance of "one-handed" there and that is the one that gets removed:

http://i.imgur.com/doqTzQC.png

The second is for the text and does this:


Benefit: Choose one kind of light or one-handed slashing weapon (such as the longsword). When wielding your chosen weapon one-handed, you can treat it as a one-handed piercing melee weapon for all feats and class abilities that require such a weapon (such as a swashbuckler's or a duelist's precise strike) and you can add your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to that weapon's damage. The weapon must be one appropriate for your size. You do not gain this benefit while fighting with two weapons or using flurry of blows, or any time another hand is otherwise occupied.

[squiggit]

I'm surprised a provision about Animal Domain wasn't added to the Sacred Huntsman like the Divine Hunter has.

[Squirrel_Dude]

You're reading the wrong erratum - that's the one for the table Slashing Grace. There is only one instance of "one-handed" there and that is the one that gets removed:

http://i.imgur.com/doqTzQC.png

The second is for the text and does this:Oh hey, Slashing Grace finally works with daggers! Sweet.

[Psyren]

Oh hey, Slashing Grace finally works with daggers! Sweet.

"With dagger" - but yes :smallbiggrin:

[Secret Wizard]

Steadfast Personality now makes a lot more builds possible.

[thompur]

I'm kinda bummed that they nerfed Battle Cry.:smallannoyed:

[Psyren]

Steadfast Personality now makes a lot more builds possible.

Isn't it a nerf? It's not an insight bonus anymore, so it won't stack with things like Divine Grace.

[Milo v3]

I'm abit disappointed with the Sacred Fist change, it means there is no good way to be an unarmed character in armour.


Mark Seifter (Rogue Eidolon) started posting in it, so we kinda kept going. It sort of became a general Paizo thread.
I actually even tried to change the threads name to just be a general paizo update thread to make it's title more accurate, but it seems it past the time where that is possible.

[Extra Anchovies]

I'm abit disappointed with the Sacred Fist change, it means there is no good way to be an unarmed character in armour.

Brawler can still flurry in armor. Granted, the Brawler isn't much next to the Sacred Fist, but neither is the Monk (or really any of the other unarmed-focused Paizo archetypes).

Is there a way for unarmored characters to get armor properties? There should be.

ETA: Just realized what you were talking about. DAMN IT WHY DON'T THEY GET FULL BASE ATTACK BONUS WITH THEIR FLURRY, THERE IS NO REASON FOR THIS CHANGE

I'm ignoring all of the Warpriest errata except the change in the AC bonus from deflection to dodge.

[Milo v3]

Brawler can still flurry in armor. Granted, the Brawler isn't much next to the Sacred Fist, but neither is the Monk (or really any of the other unarmed-focused Paizo archetypes).
They can in light armour. But I don't really consider light armour to be Armour in this case, since rogues go around in light armour and they aren't considered "armoured characters".

[Psyren]

They can in light armour. But I don't really consider light armour to be Armour in this case, since rogues go around in light armour and they aren't considered "armoured characters".

Rogues don't get an AC bonus on top of their dex though, nor do they get shield proficiency. Brawlers get both; they have plenty of AC.

Note that a Brawler can "TWF" with just one weapon, allowing them to have a shield in their offhand and still get all their flurry attacks without losing its AC bonus.

[Milo v3]

Rogues don't get an AC bonus on top of their dex though, nor do they get shield proficiency. Brawlers get both; they have plenty of AC.

Note that a Brawler can "TWF" with just one weapon, allowing them to have a shield in their offhand and still get all their flurry attacks without losing its AC bonus.

Doesn't matter. There is no first party way to make an unarmed character who goes around in medium or heavy armour (light armour is discounted since individuals that wear it aren't generally considered the armour type flavour-wise). If you want to make a character who wears breastplate or better, they probably can't fight unarmed without using something like Path of War.

[Psyren]

Doesn't matter. There is no first party way to make an unarmed character who goes around in medium or heavy armour (light armour is discounted since individuals that wear it aren't generally considered the armour type flavour-wise). If you want to make a character who wears breastplate or better, they probably can't fight unarmed without using something like Path of War.

Mithral medium armor counts as light for all purposes, so the first statement isn't true. And even if it were true, armor is armor - you can still pump it to +5 enhancement and then stick armor special abilities on it like Ghost Touch or Greater Energy Resistance, and in the end that's the important thing about it. Combine that with a high max Dex bonus, the dodge bonuses the class gets natively and a good shield (which does not in any way interfere with their attack or damage) and such a brawler has AC that can easily keep pace with any character in full plate.

[Milo v3]

Mithral medium armor counts as light for all purposes, so the first statement isn't true.
I thought it didn't count for proficiencies? And all the archetypes I could find only had light armour proficiency at most.


And even if it were true, armor is armor - you can still pump it to +5 enhancement and then stick armor special abilities on it like Ghost Touch or Greater Energy Resistance, and in the end that's the important thing about it. Combine that with a high max Dex bonus, the dodge bonuses the class gets natively and a good shield (which does not in any way interfere with their attack or damage) and such a brawler has AC that can easily keep pace with any character in full plate.

I think your missing my point... I'm not talking about a character with high AC. I'm talking about a guy able to do unarmed combat well in fullplate and breastplate. This is a thematic thing. Not numbers.

[Kudaku]

Steadfast Personality now makes a lot more builds possible.

They clarified later you still only get the bonus against mind-affecting will saves. So other than making it untyped rather than the incredibly rare insight bonus, they didn't change anything. :smallfrown:

[Ilorin Lorati]

I thought it didn't count for proficiencies? And all the archetypes I could find only had light armour proficiency at most.

This is correct. The Mithral block specifically mentions not counting for prerequisites.


I think your missing my point... I'm not talking about a character with high AC. I'm talking about a guy able to do unarmed combat well in fullplate and breastplate. This is a thematic thing. Not numbers.

The only thing limited on Brawler is the AC bonus. If you want to be in full plate, take a dip in a class that grants heavy armor proficiency or an Oracle VMC and a brawler archetype that trades out the AC bonus.


They clarified later you still only get the bonus against mind-affecting will saves. So other than making it untyped rather than the incredibly rare insight bonus, they didn't change anything. :smallfrown:

:smallsigh: Seriously? They can't even get their errata right?

[Hrugner]

I thought it didn't count for proficiencies? And all the archetypes I could find only had light armour proficiency at most.


Elven chainmail and celestial armor are the exceptions I can think of, there may be more.

[Kudaku]

Doesn't matter. There is no first party way to make an unarmed character who goes around in medium or heavy armour (light armour is discounted since individuals that wear it aren't generally considered the armour type flavour-wise). If you want to make a character who wears breastplate or better, they probably can't fight unarmed without using something like Path of War.

The brawler archetype for fighters can use heavy armor and can make a decent if not exactly stellar unarmed combatant. A Brawler (class, not archetype) is only proficient with Light Armor but other than the minor dodge bonus, there's nothing stopping him from wearing heavier armor. You can pick up proficiency with feats or a single class dip.

[Psyren]

I think your missing my point... I'm not talking about a character with high AC. I'm talking about a guy able to do unarmed combat well in fullplate and breastplate. This is a thematic thing. Not numbers.

Bold is not something I can wrap my head around. The numbers are how you tell if you're doing something well. Theme is just fluff.

If you really want a capable unarmed guy in full plate the tools are there to build one, but if I can beat his AC in light armor then I personally don't see the point in fixating on such a niche concept. To each their own I guess.

[Molosse]

Is there a way for unarmored characters to get armor properties? There should be.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/a-b/bracers-of-armor

[Extra Anchovies]

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/a-b/bracers-of-armor

That would be fine, except BoA are terrible in most cases. A chain shirt can (assuming access to Magic Vestment) get up to 9+Dex and nine points' worth of armor properties. BoA can be 8+Dex and no properties, 1+Dex and seven points, or somewhere in between. Heck, even padded armor can get you 6+Dex and nine points of armor properties. The only times that BoA are worth using are A) when you get two ability scores to AC when unarmored (e.g. Sacred Fist), B) you are not proficient with any armor, or C) when your Dexterity modifier is higher than +15 (at which point you pass up a +5 mithril chain shirt), which is very difficult in Pathfinder.

[Molosse]

That would be fine, except BoA are terrible in most cases. A chain shirt can (assuming access to Magic Vestment) get up to 9+Dex and nine points' worth of armor properties. BoA can be 8+Dex and no properties, 1+Dex and seven points, or somewhere in between. Heck, even padded armor can get you 6+Dex and nine points of armor properties. The only times that BoA are worth using are A) when you get two ability scores to AC when unarmored (e.g. Sacred Fist), B) you are not proficient with any armor, or C) when your Dexterity modifier is higher than +15 (at which point you pass up a +5 mithril chain shirt), which is very difficult in Pathfinder.

All of which is great and true. Except when your question is "Is there a way for unarmored characters to get armor properties" :P

[Milo v3]

Bold is not something I can wrap my head around. The numbers are how you tell if you're doing something well. Theme is just fluff.

If you really want a capable unarmed guy in full plate the tools are there to build one, but if I can beat his AC in light armor then I personally don't see the point in fixating on such a niche concept. To each their own I guess.

I want to do something thematic, without the numbers being horrible. Getting better numbers in light armour shows that the issue exists, because it means that an option that should be perfectly fine flavour-wise is not only highly restricted and a weak choice. It's stuff like that which gives me a reason to homebrew, flavour that hurts your characters mechanics if you try to use it on a character.

[Ilorin Lorati]

As mentioned before:

2 feats, a VMC Oracle - Metal or Battle Mystery, or Fighter (or any heavy armor user) dip on a Beast-Wrestler or Mutagenic Mauler. Your wish is perfectly viable. Not everything needs to be 100% supported through one class.

[Psyren]

I want to do something thematic, without the numbers being horrible. Getting better numbers in light armour shows that the issue exists, because it means that an option that should be perfectly fine flavour-wise is not only highly restricted and a weak choice. It's stuff like that which gives me a reason to homebrew, flavour that hurts your characters mechanics if you try to use it on a character.

The numbers aren't "horrible." Even without a specific archetype for this, you could make a Punch Fighter or Punchbarian (or hell, even a Punch Paladin) in full plate that doesn't suck, and in fact does quite well.

The only thing such a build would lack is flurry, and you hardly need that to take on CR-appropriate challenges.


As mentioned before:

2 feats, a VMC Oracle - Metal or Battle Mystery, or Fighter (or any heavy armor user) dip on a Beast-Wrestler or Mutagenic Mauler. Your wish is perfectly viable. Not everything needs to be 100% supported through one class.

Also that.

[Larkas]

Soooo... Should I rush and buy a copy of ACG while the first print run is still available?

[Ilorin Lorati]

Nah. Overall, the new print of the ACG will be a better book. Unless they someone manages to completely screw up the cover again...
Relatively minor complaints about nerfs and bad editing aren't as bad as the mess that was the first printing.

[Extra Anchovies]

Soooo... Should I rush and buy a copy of ACG while the first print run is still available?

Just say it with me:

"Sacred Fist has full BAB when flurrying."

Besides that you should be fine picking up a second printing.

[137beth]

I'll admit the ACG was a tough sell for me. I prefer new base classes to have new subsystems a la Interjection Games and Strange Magic, but there are a whopping zero subsystems in the ACG. So the content doesn't grab me at all. For me to want to buy and/or use the ACG, it needed to have top notch balance and editing. It had neither.
I was holding out hope that the errata might convince me to get it (since both balance and editing can be improved in errata), but it falls way short.
Oh well, guess I won't be getting the ACG.

[EldritchWeaver]

How hard are Arcanists affected by this:


Can only consume spells/magic items Cha/day each.
Counter Drain only works with the Counterspell exploit.


I suppose the Counter Drain is relatively minor, but the consume spell thing worries me. Is this a good enough reason to push Charisma? I've seen in guides that one should take a a Craft feat to easily fill up the reservoir. But as it can't be done anymore unlimited, I'm not sure how helpful it is. I suppose you end up with enough spell slots left to have some use for consume spells.