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Tyrael
2007-05-03, 06:23 AM
Ahoy, all. Just a quick question: When a character (usually Medium) gains natural wings (such as a Red Dragon Disciple's 9th-level natural wings), what would its wingspan be? Also, does the wingspan affect gameplay in any way? For example, if the RDD stands at the entrance to an alleyway 10 feet wide and spreads his wings, could he block it?

JellyPooga
2007-05-03, 06:26 AM
Technically, you can have the wingspan be any length you want. I would reccomend about twice the characters height though.

the_tick_rules
2007-05-03, 10:34 AM
well since medium characters with wings don't occupy a 15 foot wide square i think the wingspan has to be included into their space. perhaps it's one of those situations where D&D mechanics don't correlate perfectly into real life, so if ya care enough maybe a homerule.

Zeta Kai
2007-05-03, 10:39 AM
I agree with JellyPooga; wings of 2x Height make sense. Well, sense enough for gaming purposes. Although RAW don't grant any space/reach powers with those wings that I can see.

Fax Celestis
2007-05-03, 10:41 AM
well since medium characters with wings don't occupy a 15 foot wide square i think the wingspan has to be included into their space. perhaps it's one of those situations where D&D mechanics don't correlate perfectly into real life, so if ya care enough maybe a homerule.

That'd be with your wings fully extended, which you only do when (a) flying; or (b) showing off like a peacock.

Ulzgoroth
2007-05-03, 10:46 AM
Yes, but the rules don't make your space larger when you fly/spread out your wings. If you ever fly in narrow spaces, this is very convenient, but not so much realistic.

Zeta Kai
2007-05-03, 10:58 AM
Yes, but the rules don't make your space larger when you fly/spread out your wings. If you ever fly in narrow spaces, this is very convenient, but not so much realistic.

It would only be unrealistic if done for more than a round or so. Both soaring birds & flapping birds can pull their wings in for a moment to fly through narrow openings. This is done primarily by building up speed before a "hoop-swoop" maneuver, then coasting on the reduced lift on the partially-extended wings, & finally reopening the wings, flapping once or twice to regain momentum. It's not terribly disimilar from a recoverable dive.

After about a few seconds of this though, the Gravity God notices the bird, & then its a swift summoning to the Plane of Ground. In the game, this is where reality starts to take a beating.

Fax Celestis
2007-05-03, 11:00 AM
It would only be unrealistic if done for more than a round or so. Both soaring birds & flapping birds can pull their wings in for a moment to fly through narrow openings. This is done primarily by building up speed before a "hoop-swoop" maneuver, then coasting on the reduced lift on the partially-extended wings, & finally reopening the wings, flapping once or twice to regain momentum. It's not terribly disimilar from a recoverable dive.

After about a few seconds of this though, the Gravity God notices the bird, & then its a swift summoning to the Plane of Ground. In the game, this is where reality starts to take a beating.

Do note that the Squeezing rules still apply when in flight.

AtomicKitKat
2007-05-03, 11:00 AM
Figure that each wing will typically take up anywhere from 1/3 to 4/5 of your body length(albatross, condors, and the like are exempted for this example). As usual, all figures are based upon myself as the "Average".

Assume human is 68 inches(5'8"). Shoulders/chest around 16 inches(1'4") from left to right(as opposed to circumference).
Wing is 1/3(23 inches/1'11") to 4/5(54 inches/4'6") long.
2 wings have a combined tip to tip of around 2'10", to 9'.
If we place them near the outer edge of the shoulder, that gives about another 1 foot, for a total wingspan of 3'10" to 10'.

10' means you can reach into the squares beside you, but not enough to hit beyond that range.

Piccamo
2007-05-03, 11:32 AM
That'd be with your wings fully extended, which you only do when (a) flying; or (b) showing off like a peacock.
Who wouldn't want to be showing off like a peacock?

Shhalahr Windrider
2007-05-03, 04:37 PM
Do note that the Squeezing rules still apply when in flight.
And the speed reduction is enough to require any creature of average or worse maneuverability to take a double move in order to maintain minimum forward speed. Fancy that. :smallwink:

The furthest I'd go with wingspans is treating a creature as needing the space of a creature one size category larger while flying for the purposes of squeezing and nothing more. In most cases, the wings would be worthless for anything other than flight when extended that far.

Santanya
2007-05-03, 04:44 PM
Speaking of wingspans, the Draconomicon actually addresses this with dragons at least. There's several measurements of wingspans for the different types of dragons, as well as minimum wingspan, which is the minimum space it takes for them to hold their wings out far enough to glide. It might be possible to use measurements from these, using the younger dragons.

I would say no, they can't BLOCK space around them with the wings, they're not usually strong enough for that, or don't occupy a large enough area that they can't be ducked under.

Talya
2007-05-03, 04:46 PM
Averiel specifically need 10' wide path to fly, by RAW. One would assume while in flight they occupy two adjacent squares. (5'x10')

Demented
2007-05-03, 05:22 PM
Who wouldn't want to be showing off like a peacock?

Hold your arms outstretched for a day.
Then note that you don't even have feathers to add drag. :smalltongue:

goat
2007-05-03, 06:16 PM
Hmm, you probably can't block projectiles, but blocking the light/view should be possible.

Could be useful for a front-line tanker in an enclosed space, providing cover for those behind while they buff him/her up or prepare things.