Psicrystals - how do they work?

[Heliomance]

I'm building a psionic character for the first time (an Ardent), and I'm looking at getting a psicrystal. I'm getting horribly confused though, as a result of the information being spread out over multiple different places. How do they work? The only requirement for getting one is having a manifester level, but its hit dice are calculated only using your Psion and Wilder levels - no other manifester classes.

Generally, what do I need to know to use a psicrystal?

[illyahr]

A psicrystal is a stone that you imbue with a fragment of your personality. The crystal provides a boost to a skill based on what kind of personality it has and what supplemental abilities you learn. It basically functions like a familiar for manifesters. The Expanded Psionics Handbook has the basic stuff, I think.

[Troacctid]

Psicrystals use any psionic class to determine their abilities, but only Psion or Wilder to determine their hit dice. This is generally considered a dysfunction. If the DM is unwilling to handwave past it, your best recourse is to trade your psicrystal for an Elemental Envoy, from Complete Psionic.

An important difference between psicrystals and familiars is that psicrystals gain actual hit dice instead of having their natural hit dice and using the master's hit dice for effects that care about it. So, unlike familiars, psicrystals gain feats of their own, which is nifty.

[Psyren]

The only requirement for getting one is having a manifester level, but its hit dice are calculated only using your Psion and Wilder levels - no other manifester classes.

It advances by "owner level," thus being available to other manifesting classes.


All psicrystals have special abilities (or impart abilities to their owners) depending on the level of the owner, as shown on the table above.[

[torrasque666]

It advances by "owner level," thus being available to other manifesting classes.

[
Its abilities are dependent on its owner's levels in Manifesting Classes, but it also says to refer to page 207 for the base statistics, only making the changes it says so. The Psicrystal on page 207 says
A psicrystal’s characteristics depend on its master. Its Hit Dice are equal to its master’s Hit Dice (counting only levels in psion or wilder), its hit points are equal to half its master’s, and its saving throw bonuses are the same as its master’s.

So if you have no levels in Psion or Wilder, then it has no HD.

[Psyren]

Its abilities are dependent on its owner's levels in Manifesting Classes, but it also says to refer to page 207 for the base statistics, only making the changes it says so. The Psicrystal on page 207 says

So if you have no levels in Psion or Wilder, then it has no HD.

I'm aware of that line - it's one of those rules nobody actually enforces, like monk's unarmed strikes or drowning to heal etc. If your GM does, he's just passive-aggressively saying your Ardent doesn't get to have a psicrystal, neener neener neener.

And even if they do go with that wording, it only refers to hit dice - all the other psicrystal abilities function normally by RAW.

[Flickerdart]

And even if they do go with that wording, it only refers to hit dice - all the other psicrystal abilities function normally by RAW.

A creature with 0 hit dice may run into problems.

[Psyren]

A creature with 0 hit dice may run into problems.

It seems to me that it'll always have at least 1, even if it never advances beyond that.


The psicrystal described here is that of a 1st-level manifester.

Since all manifesters (including Ardents) are at least 1st-level, they will at least get that one.

[Flickerdart]

It seems to me that it'll always have at least 1, even if it never advances beyond that.



Since all manifesters (including Ardents) are at least 1st-level, they will at least get that one.
That's not a rule, it's an example. By applying what we know about the rules, we can know that the manifester in question must be a psion or wilder.

[Psyren]

That's not a rule, it's an example. By applying what we know about the rules, we can know that the manifester in question must be a psion or wilder.

But you can't know that it can't be anything else. Are Psychic Warriors not manifesters too?

[Flickerdart]

But you can't know that it can't be anything else. Are Psychic Warriors not manifesters too?
Psychic Warrior psicrystals would have no HD, therefore it can't be a psychic warrior.

[Psyren]

Psychic Warrior psicrystals would have no HD, therefore it can't be a psychic warrior.

Very well - rather than continue to argue over it, I'll just point back at the first part of #6.

[Flickerdart]

Very well - rather than continue to argue over it, I'll just point back at the first part of #6.
Toasters (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_Six_(Battlestar_Galactica)) aren't even manifesters.

[Psyren]

Toasters (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_Six_(Battlestar_Galactica)) aren't even manifesters.

EDI isn't a toaster!

(I've never watched that show so I have a feeling you mean something different.)

[Rijan_Sai]

Very well - rather than continue to argue over it, I'll just point back at the first part of #6.

While that may be true, (and I agree, BTW,) there are those*for whom the "Rule of RAW" is all-encompassing, and would enforce the "Psion or Wilder" only clause.
*coughCurmudgeoncough*


(Side-note: Drown healing works! MARIO IS PROOF! (http://www.gamefaqs.com/features/top10/2202-the-top-10-most-unintentionally-horrific-ways-to-die-in))

[Psyren]

Well, in Pathfinder any manifester can have a psicrystal, so yeah.

(Also, blues and dromites don't suck.)

[Unbodied]

Wait are we talking about 3.5 here or Pathfinder? Because both the feat section and the creature entry in Ultimate Psionics says to go by the masters levels in Psionic classes, nothing about manifesters or being restricted to wilders/psions.

I'm confused.

[torrasque666]

Wait are we talking about 3.5 here or Pathfinder? Because both the feat section and the creature entry in Ultimate Psionics says to go by the masters levels in Psionic classes, nothing about manifesters or being restricted to wilders/psions.

I'm confused.

I'm assuming 3.5 unless stated otherwise, because there was no mention of pathfinder. Psyren's just being huffy because they were proven wrong.

[Unbodied]

I'm assuming 3.5 unless stated otherwise, because there was no mention of pathfinder. Psyren's just being huffy because they were proven wrong.
It seems like a pretty stupid rule. Why wouldn't other manifesters be able to make psicrystals?

[Psyren]

I'm assuming 3.5 unless stated otherwise, because there was no mention of pathfinder. Psyren's just being huffy because they were proven wrong.

I wasn't wrong, other manifesters can have psicrystals. They simply die immediately, because WotC :smalltongue:

[Troacctid]

I wasn't wrong, other manifesters can have psicrystals. They simply die immediately, because WotC :smalltongue:

Hence why you trade it for an Elemental Envoy. :smallwink:

[Ellowryn]

Something else i could never find is what happens to a psicrystal when it dies? It has hit points and is a legal target (and is quite often used in conjunction with vigor and share pain for a tanky mage), but unlike with familiars there is no description of what happens if it is reduced to 0 hp. Do you gain a new one after a period of time? After you pay a cost and "fix" it? Or do you just have a useless feat?

[mabriss lethe]

You also might find a work-around as a Kalashtar, since they are called out as manifesting their SLA as a wilder. (they also have a feat that increases the ML of their SLA to their full HD instead of 1/2.)

[Andreaz]

The short story is "They're like familiars, but with a slightly different vibe".

[DrMartin]

Something else i could never find is what happens to a psicrystal when it dies? It has hit points and is a legal target (and is quite often used in conjunction with vigor and share pain for a tanky mage), but unlike with familiars there is no description of what happens if it is reduced to 0 hp. Do you gain a new one after a period of time? After you pay a cost and "fix" it? Or do you just have a useless feat?

that is never written in 3.5, or also it's not clear if and how can you change the personality aspect you imbue your crystal with. Also: where do pricrystals come from? are they psionic construct that sort of precipitate from thin air, or do you need an actual crystal to begin with? Can you repair it in mundane ways, or you need powers like repair damage or the like?

Regarding the lost of a psicrystal, the only places where it appears as far as I know is in the power Detonate Psicrystal, in the book Hyperconscious (3rd party, yes, but goood 3rd party, from the same designer of the XPH): it's a power that does exactly what the name suggests (your psicrystal explodes and you roll a bunch of d6s of damage) and it goes on saying that the purposeful sacrifice of your psicrystal entails a price, and you have to pass a fort save or lose xp (similar to a familiar death) and suffer 2 pts of intelligence drain as long as you can get another psicrystal - and you have to wait at least 6 months from the moment of the detonation to be able to do that.

So that gives a bit of insight in the designer's intent for psicrystal - that if you lose it you are supposed to be able to get a new one, and that the penalties/complexity of the process involved in getting a new one should be less severe that what detonate psicrystal entails. On that basis you and your DM can put together a ruling on how it works in your game, i guess.