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Daedroth
2015-07-25, 07:58 AM
I'm making a campaign setting based on the idea of a post-apocalyptic world where "races" are indeed all human (Except a few ones that are completely artificial or extraterrestrial in nature).
The origin of said races is the use of technology to alter the human form. That kind of technology was indeed popular and it had a widespread use for centuries before de apocalypse took place.

I want to know wich "races" would be popular in said pre-apocalipse scenario, taking into account several premises.

1- The mutation is transmitted to descendants
2- Said mutations don't mix,ever, you can have your father mutation or your mother mutation but not both. It's designed to prevent unexpected results on "crossbreeds".
3- Since you still human theres no incompatibility
4- Mutations are designed to be practical and no mutation will leave you handicapped. For example, no matter how similar you are to a spider, you will stay mammal and if you area a mermaid you will be capable of living normally in land.
5- Said mutations are pretty widespread and society is very open-minded, unless you are really really weird no one will find you actually gross.


I expect elves to be a popular choice, since there are people who already modify their ears to be elf-like and i personally would be some kind of half-dragon. What is your opinion? What race woudl you personally chose? What do you think other people would chose?

Thanks in advance.

Oberon Kenobi
2015-07-25, 08:35 AM
Taking the premise at face value, furries in general will be very popular; I'd expect lots of wolf-, fox- and cat-people to be running around.

Goblins, too, as a license to be mischievous. And you know there will be angels, demons and their non-western analogues, too.

Most of the bog standard fantasy races are just humans with different body proportions once you take the magic away.

Me, I'd probably be a merperson. So long as I can still get Wi-Fi in the deep blue sea, anyway. :P

Daedroth
2015-07-25, 08:41 AM
Taking the premise at face value, furries in general will be very popular; I'd expect lots of wolf-, fox- and cat-people to be running around.

I agree


Goblins, too, as a license to be mischievous.

Please, elaborate that, i find hard to imagine someone wanting to look goblin



And you know there will be angels, demons and their non-western analogues, too.
I agree here too.



Me, I'd probably be a merperson. So long as I can still get Wi-Fi in the deep blue sea, anyway. :P

Of course you can, how could an advanced hight tech society not have wi-fi in the deep blue sea!

Anonymouswizard
2015-07-25, 09:13 AM
1- The mutation is transmitted to descendants

If we're playing around with genetics, this makes sense.


2- Said mutations don't mix,ever, you can have your father mutation or your mother mutation but not both. It's designed to prevent unexpected results on "crossbreeds".

This doesn't, either mutations should mix or mutation A+mutation B=human, with a chance to pass along their parent's mutations.


3- Since you still human theres no incompatibility

Huh? I don't know what this means, but if it does mean what I think it does then it severely limits the possible 'races' to those that wouldn't need a change in the number of chromosomes.


4- Mutations are designed to be practical and no mutation will leave you handicapped. For example, no matter how similar you are to a spider, you will stay mammal and if you area a mermaid you will be capable of living normally in land.

Define handicapped. I can say that enhanced senses can be a detriment in some situations, and I personally list them under 'minor handicap' unless there's a bunch of other modifications to balance it out (try acute hearing and being in a room with 5 conversations going on).


5- Said mutations are pretty widespread and society is very open-minded, unless you are really really weird no one will find you actually gross.

Define 'really really weird'. Is my cthulhuoid idea not weird enough?

To be more specific, the following are going to be oh so common:
-Longevity
-Increased resistance to toxins and diseases

The following will be common if the modification was mainly used before the apocalypse:
-'Beauty'
-Skin somewhere between 'bronze' and 'yellow' in colour
-Enhanced Height
-Ability to use any 'magic' from before the apocalypse

If the modification is still available a good deal after the apocalypse, the following will be much higher priority:
-Anything that increases resistance to harm
-Night vision
-Probably some form of enhanced strength
-More efficient energy useage
-Ability to use any 'magic' that came about during or after the apocalypse

In short, if the modification technology is lost you'll see a lot of 'elf' (and probably cat person) variants, if it's still around afterwards (and especially if it can be used on those already 'changed') then expect far more 'dwarf' and 'orc' variants than 'elves'.

If the ability to give people functional wings was available then 'angel' forms would be extremely common, unless you could implant some kind of anti-gravity flight advice.

DigoDragon
2015-07-25, 09:14 AM
Sounds like a setting I had made years back. I approve of your ideas. :3

If the pre-apocalypse world had a healthy space program, perhaps dwarves were engineered humans for space? Compact size makes for efficiency when room is a premium on a ship. Maybe they could deal with gravity differences better. After the apocalypse the dwarves were stranded on the planet same as everyone else and just didn't really get much taller.

Gamgee
2015-07-25, 09:18 AM
Pfft... biology. If I could I would have a mechanical body.

http://img12.deviantart.net/fa3d/i/2012/257/d/2/necron_overlord_by_nicholaskay-d5enu6s.jpg

Although if that's too out there I could accept this.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11118/111182429/4008896-adam-jensen.jpg

Daedroth
2015-07-25, 09:31 AM
This doesn't, either mutations should mix or mutation A+mutation B=human, with a chance to pass along their parent's mutations.

Artificial genetic system that blocks one of the two mutations at zygote state randomly... or just rule of plot.

Let's separate in secondary alterations (never blocked) and primary ones (Blocked, defines your race).


3- Since you still human theres no incompatibility
Huh? I don't know what this means, but if it does mean what I think it does then it severely limits the possible 'races' to those that wouldn't need a change in the number of chromosomes.

It means that the alterations don't modify your genome at such extent and they are designed in such a way that intercourse will still be phisicaly posible with normal humans and other alterated ones.



To be more specific, the following are going to be oh so common:
-Longevity
-Increased resistance to toxins and diseases
-'Beauty'


Such modifications are mainstream, 100% of population have them and are secondary mutations.


-Skin somewhere between 'bronze' and 'yellow' in colour

Exotic skin and hair are widespread and compatible with every other mutations that doesn't affect the same trait, for example dark elf is just the combination of elf alteration (primary) and ebony skin mutation (secondary).



If the modification is still available a good deal after the apocalypse, the following will be much higher priority:
-Anything that increases resistance to harm
-Night vision
-Probably some form of enhanced strength
-More efficient energy useage

Nope, isn't available.


-Ability to use any 'magic' that came about during or after the apocalypse

Magic is caused by the interaction of alterations and apocalypse, i already covered that.

Oberon Kenobi
2015-07-25, 09:44 AM
Please, elaborate that, i find hard to imagine someone wanting to look goblinIf you find that hard to imagine, I suspect the setting you're creating would royally freak you out if you actually lived in it. :smalltongue:

Specific case: goblins are generally small, green-skinned and floppy-eared. Maybe add fangs and claws to taste. Give or take the skin tone, they're basically really short elves; it's very tame so far as transformations go. Objectively speaking, it's a lot closer to vanilla human than being a half-dragon, no? :smallwink:

More broadly: you should really open your mind to the possibilities and consider this as a lighter version of rule 36. If you can imagine it, someone is going to want to look like it. Probably several someones. You're going to have your spider-taurs and tentacle-heads and slime people right there with the fang-and-fur crowd. Depending on how long it's been since the apocalypse, some of the more niche transformations may have died out due to low population and lack of breeding pairs, but even that's no guarantee; persons of a like mind tend to cling together in times of crisis, especially if communication and travel become as comparatively easy in the next few centuries as they have in the last few centuries.

Anonymouswizard
2015-07-25, 09:51 AM
Artificial genetic system that blocks one of the two mutations at zygote state randomly... or just rule of plot.

Let's separate in secondary alterations (never blocked) and primary ones (Blocked, defines your race).

Okay.


It means that the alterations don't modify your genome at such extent and they are designed in such a way that intercourse will still be phisicaly posible with normal humans and other alterated ones.

You needed to specify this because? It makes no sense as something to be specified.


Such modifications are mainstream, 100% of population have them and are secondary mutations.

Well, yeah, that's obvious.


Exotic skin and hair are widespread and compatible with every other mutations that doesn't affect the same trait, for example dark elf is just the combination of elf alteration (primary) and ebony skin mutation (secondary).

But for social reasons skin tones in the dark Caucasian to light Asian range are going to be the most common, assuming we are beginning with Earth. There's just so much of a push towards lighter (or darker) skin in some areas that the first thing most people would do is get their ideal skin colour.


Nope, isn't available.

Natural selection will make it so those who took those when they had the chance are more likely to bread true, unless it was a particularly light apocalypse those modifications will just make you more survivable.


Magic is caused by the interaction of alterations and apocalypse, i already covered that.

I was just trying to give a complete list.

Daedroth
2015-07-25, 09:55 AM
If you find that hard to imagine, I suspect the setting you're creating would royally freak you out if you actually lived in it.

Not really...im consider myself pretty weird. Well, being realistic, anyone of our time would royallt freak out in any future setting



Specific case: goblins are generally small, green-skinned and floppy-eared. Maybe add fangs and claws to taste. Give or take the skin tone, they're basically really short elves; it's very tame so far as transformations go. Objectively speaking, it's a lot closer to vanilla human than being a half-dragon, no?

Maybe a WoWistyc and fancy goblin would work. Same with orcs.



More broadly: you should really open your mind to the possibilities and consider this as a lighter version of rule 63. If you can imagine it, someone is going to want to look like it. Probably several someones. You're going to have your spider-taurs and tentacle-heads and slime people right there with the fang-and-fur crowd. Depending on how long it's been since the apocalypse, some of the more niche transformations may have died out due to low population and lack of breeding pairs, but even that's no guarantee; persons of a like mind tend to cling together in times of crisis, especially if communication and travel become as comparatively easy in the next few centuries as they have in the last few centuries.

Yep,every mutation is posible, and i have spider-taur on the list (because i personally find them cool), and yes, has been very long since the apocalypse, "normal" humans and a lot of niche transformations have died. Lack of breeding is not a problem, all mutations are designed to be compatible in that matter. The idea of the post is finding out what ones would be common.


Pfft... biology. If I could I would have a mechanical body.

Mechanical beings are considered, but not as a human race.

Same with slime people, but in their case are just an alien race.




Natural selection will make it so those who took those when they had the chance are more likely to bread true, unless it was a particularly light apocalypse those modifications will just make you more survivable.

Good point, that would increase dwarf, goblin and orc relative populations despite being less populars than elves in pre-apocalipse time.

goto124
2015-07-25, 08:25 PM
... succubi?

BeerMug Paladin
2015-07-25, 11:10 PM
Let's see... Xenomorph, naga, lizardfolk, merfolk. Colour Out of Space.

I think it would be difficult to narrow down to a particular design choice just because abilities such as flight, extra limbs, underwater living, extra/improved senses and so forth would be rather difficult to choose between.

But as for things people might willingly pick? I can't really imagine anything being too strange not to be appealing to someone out there. Yes, that includes Mr. Hanky.

Inevitability
2015-07-26, 04:18 AM
I'd prefer a robotic body myself. Though if I had to pick something fleshy, I think either elf or tiefling (the somewhat-unhuman kind of tiefling, not the pupil-less, horned, and tailed fiend).

Eldan
2015-07-26, 04:45 AM
I'd probably want to stay roughly human. Because while I like the look of a lot of fantasy races, I don't think I'd want to be any of them permanently. Unless I could get wings. Elf would be a good excuse to lose a hundred pounds or so, so maybe that.

hewhosaysfish
2015-07-26, 08:44 AM
... succubi?

Shapeshifting? Sure.

As someone who's normally quite indecisive, shapeshifting like a 'cubus or a changeling does seem like a good answer to the question of "what would you want to be?".

Of course, it's not really realistic to essentially change into a different person in 6 seconds but you can work around that.

Changing skin/hair/eye colour could be done near-instantly (like a squid) while for more in-depth changes you could base it on the Changers from Iain Banks' Consider Phlebas: fix the intended form in your subconsious with a protracted meditation and then your soft tissues redistribute themselves over the following hours, bones shortening or lengthening over days, all dependent on existing mass and/or your diet during the change.

That wouldn't allow for gaining extra limbs or growing 20 feet tall though, which are both amongst the sort of modifications people might want in this sort of scenario.

Eldan
2015-07-26, 08:51 AM
Oh, well, if shapeshifting is on the table, yeah, sign me up for that.

runeghost
2015-07-26, 11:52 AM
In World of Warcraft, Naga, Ethereals, Ogres, and Aarocka are the most-desired additional races in player polls. All of those except the energy-based Ethereals should be doable, somehow.

Hawkstar
2015-07-26, 11:53 AM
I feel really sorry for the genetic descendents of that green furred bioluminescent, hermaphroditic sparkledog.

NRSASD
2015-07-26, 03:00 PM
Does the appearance have any effect on the physical capabilities of the creature that has been modified? Is the genetic modification so advanced that a halfling could be as strong as a giant due to the advanced materials involved?

ramakidin
2015-07-26, 03:23 PM
I personally think there would be a ton of huge naturally muscular people going into the 10' range easily in height with corresponding mass. I assume these would be the lazy option for people who wanted to look like they worked out because everyone could do it they turned out looking like half giants.
I personally think half-dragons (fire-breath, and flight included) would be the only thing I might want to change into. Multiple handed people would be very common because of everything you could do at the same time. (I could eat and drink while still typing at my normal speed)

Daedroth
2015-07-26, 03:24 PM
Does the appearance have any effect on the physical capabilities of the creature that has been modified?

It does



Is the genetic modification so advanced that a halfling could be as strong as a giant due to the advanced materials involved?

Nope, but magic capabilities can be adquired after the apocalipse (for example Fire Breath in dragonkind).


For now i considered those races, variants share game mechanics with the main kind:
Catfolk, the standard model is basic cat girl/cat boy but can go from there to full furry catfolk
Foxfolk, same variants than catfolk
Centaur, with variants using other mammals or even reptiles
Elf, being a variant dark elf
Merfolk, being scylla and other similar beings variants of merfolk
Dryad, being other plan-like creatures like alraune variants
Pixies
Beastfolk, being wolfman, bearman and lionman the 3 standard and having variants on similar animals.
Dragonfolk, ranges from few dragonlike features to humanoid dragon (a humanoid sized one)
Demonfolk, being the standard the succubus model but being less subtle demons also posible
Arachtaur, being "drider" the main design, but having variants with scorpions or other arthropods.
Nagas, from simple "just a snake tail" to yuan-ti, can have snake hair.
Angels, with black-winged variants and a Lilend (angel with snake tail) model.
Minotaur, from legit minotaur to just having horns and tail.
Darkfolk, fake vampires for goths
Satyr, with faun variant

Added after doing the first post
Orc, added because of Anonymouswizard point
Dwarf, added because of Anonymouswizard point
Smallfolk, including halflings, goblins and gnomes

Working on: Avianfolk

Non-human races:
Steel men: Inteligent robots
Slimes: Extreterrestrial life
The Plague: Extraterrestrial life, "Xenomorph type"

erikun
2015-07-26, 03:28 PM
The biggest concern is that there are going to be superhumans running around. I mean, if someone pre-apocalypse could choose to have enhanced strength, enhanced endurance, enhanced disease resistance, enhanced reflexes, enhanced mental function, enhanced senses, enhanced healing... then why not? And since mutations never mix or interact with other mutations, these superhumans are all going to have the same genetic traits and breed true, never having any other traits.

Other than that: tails (especially functional ones), wings, or some methods of surviving in the water are going to be popular. I would probably go for thumbs on the feet if given the option. The ability to hold stuff in more than two limbs, or even grasp what I'm standing on, sounds rather neat. The ability to digest a larger range of food (namely adding herbivore digestion to our omnivore diet, and possibly disease resistance to eat more spoiled food) would be a nice one as well.

erikun
2015-07-26, 03:43 PM
For now i considered those races, variants share game mechanics with the main kind:
Sorry for double-posting, but I didn't see this post until after I made my last one. Taking a look at the list, I can't help but wonder about the options present, and perhaps if some of them break the immersion of the campaign setting. I mean, if the pre-apocalyptic was roughly similar to a modern one, then who would choose to modify themselves into a centaur - in a world with humanoid tables, humanoid chairs, humanoid cars and humanoid modes of travel? They would never be able to take an airplane. Who would choose to modify themselves into a half-bug Arachtaur, especially when they could encase themselves in a full insect exoskeleton similar to a Thri-kreen (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thri-kreen)? (which I should put down as one of my suggestions: bug-person, with an optional secondary set of arms)

I mean, the setting has had both an apocalypse, a world of transition and survival immediately afterwards, and then just being able to live in the world afterwards. I could think of some genetic things that people might be interested in which just could not manage (such as sexless individuals who require technology to reproduce) and even if a small handful of people would choose to become, say, centaurs - there is no guarantee that enough of them survived long enough to pass along their genes. In fact, that's an entirely valid reason to deny or remove specific races if you wanted: just say that not enough survived or were killed off, and so none survived to this day.

I'm also not sure what the difference between an elf and a pixie is, unless you are talking about a two-foot-high flying thing. And in which case, the question of how many people would do this and how they survived so long comes up.



Of course, if the point isn't to be realistic and instead just using the setting as an excuse for anything crazy - then go right ahead. After all, crazy post-apocalyptic creature mashups are fun as well, and there is no reason to deny people characters if that's what you want to do.

Daedroth
2015-07-26, 03:59 PM
I mean, if the pre-apocalyptic was roughly similar to a modern one

pre-apocalyptic is a futuristic one



then who would choose to modify themselves into a centaur - in a world with humanoid tables, humanoid chairs, humanoid cars and humanoid modes of travel? They would never be able to take an airplane.
Good question, i imagine that would be a whole new market for centaur-friendly furniture. Modes of travel, on the other hand were a minor problem in such advanced society.



Who would choose to modify themselves into a half-bug Arachtaur, especially when they could encase themselves in a full insect exoskeleton similar to a Thri-kreen? (which I should put down as one of my suggestions: bug-person, with an optional secondary set of arms)

Because they find full exoskeleton non-pretty? Its just a matter of taste.


(such as sexless individuals who require technology to reproduce)

The only ones who require technology are Steel Men, and they have the only one factory that still works... the Steel Men factory, they don't know how it works and no one in the post-apocaliptic has the technology needed to mantain it, so the day it breaks they are screwed.



and even if a small handful of people would choose to become, say, centaurs - there is no guarantee that enough of them survived long enough to pass along their genes. In fact, that's an entirely valid reason to deny or remove specific races if you wanted: just say that not enough survived or were killed off, and so none survived to this day.

I already do that.




Of course, if the point isn't to be realistic and instead just using the setting as an excuse for anything crazy - then go right ahead. After all, crazy post-apocalyptic creature mashups are fun as well, and there is no reason to deny people characters if that's what you want to do.

More or less.

Anonymouswizard
2015-07-26, 04:17 PM
I feel really sorry for the genetic descendents of that green furred bioluminescent, hermaphroditic sparkledog.

I really want this to be a thing now. Can we make this a thing?


For now i considered those races, variants share game mechanics with the main kind:
Catfolk, the standard model is basic cat girl/cat boy but can go from there to full furry catfolk
Foxfolk, same variants than catfolk
Centaur, with variants using other mammals or even reptiles
Elf, being a variant dark elf
Merfolk, being scylla and other similar beings variants of merfolk
Dryad, being other plan-like creatures like alraune variants
Pixies
Beastfolk, being wolfman, bearman and lionman the 3 standard and having variants on similar animals.
Dragonfolk, ranges from few dragonlike features to humanoid dragon (a humanoid sized one)
Demonfolk, being the standard the succubus model but being less subtle demons also posible
Arachtaur, being "drider" the main design, but having variants with scorpions or other arthropods.
Nagas, from simple "just a snake tail" to yuan-ti, can have snake hair.
Angels, with black-winged variants and a Lilend (angel with snake tail) model.
Minotaur, from legit minotaur to just having horns and tail.
Darkfolk, fake vampires for goths
Satyr, with faun variant

Added after doing the first post
Orc, added because of Anonymouswizard point
Dwarf, added because of Anonymouswizard point
Smallfolk, including halflings, goblins and gnomes

Working on: Avianfolk

Non-human races:
Steel men: Inteligent robots
Slimes: Extreterrestrial life
The Plague: Extraterrestrial life, "Xenomorph type"

Some of the races can probably be combined into one with variants, i.e. Beastfolk contains all the mammal furries, with Catfolk, Foxfolk, Wolffolk etc. being statted as the most common. But a good list, I'm not sure what 'Demonfolk' actually means, because I subscribe to the demon=angel school (I'm working on a nWoD homebrew where demons and angels are differentiated by if they have 'pure' Numina or 'twisted' Dread Powers, with their core abilities being exactly the same, and Dread Powers having clear Numina counterparts), but I'll assume it means anything from bat wings to goatmen.


The biggest concern is that there are going to be superhumans running around. I mean, if someone pre-apocalypse could choose to have enhanced strength, enhanced endurance, enhanced disease resistance, enhanced reflexes, enhanced mental function, enhanced senses, enhanced healing... then why not? And since mutations never mix or interact with other mutations, these superhumans are all going to have the same genetic traits and breed true, never having any other traits.

I think the idea is that those that were available were programmed into everyone, at least at a low level.


Other than that: tails (especially functional ones), wings, or some methods of surviving in the water are going to be popular. I would probably go for thumbs on the feet if given the option. The ability to hold stuff in more than two limbs, or even grasp what I'm standing on, sounds rather neat. The ability to digest a larger range of food (namely adding herbivore digestion to our omnivore diet, and possibly disease resistance to eat more spoiled food) would be a nice one as well.

These are good points and ideas.

For me personally I'd likely go for a personalised 'angel' job: yellow skin, black hair, ability to shift my facial features and possibly switch sex*, and then follow it up with anti-gravity flight implants and bioweave armour (ideally as a genetic enhancement instead of an implant). No wings, because if they were bulky enough to be usable then I'd knock over everything thanks to my dyspraxia. Follow it up by fixing my strabismus and lactose and wheat intolerances and I'm golden.

* yes I'd basically go for a limited changeling race, but that's just personal preference.

Daedroth
2015-07-26, 04:28 PM
Some of the races can probably be combined into one with variants, i.e. Beastfolk contains all the mammal furries, with Catfolk, Foxfolk, Wolfolk etc. being statted as the most common.


There's some key diference between both kinds and Minotaur, Catfolk and Foxfolk (That two could be easily combined and englobe others now that you mention this) are more "cutey" and similar to normal humans and Beastfolk and Minotaur are built for power. The diference between minotaur and beastfolk is that the former is "brute style" and the latter fills the "hunter/savage" niche.




But a good list, I'm not sure what 'Demonfolk' actually means, because I subscribe to the demon=angel school (I'm working on a nWoD homebrew where demons and angels are differentiated by if they have 'pure' Numina or 'twisted' Dread Powers, with their core abilities being exactly the same, and Dread Powers having clear Numina counterparts), but I'll assume it means anything from bat wings to goatmen.

The cliche demon from popular culture and similar variants, with horns and the like.



No wings, because if they were bulky enough to be usable then I'd knock over everything thanks to my dyspraxia.
Pure light wings would be pretty cool :smallwink:

Jay R
2015-07-26, 04:33 PM
Hollywood.

That weird race we see in the movies who are all beautiful, healthy, and athletic, everybody you meet is beautiful, and however much you disagree and argue, you and the most beautiful person you meet will be in love with each other two hours later.

Anonymouswizard
2015-07-26, 04:40 PM
Hollywood.

That weird race we see in the movies who are all beautiful, healthy, and athletic, everybody you meet is beautiful, and however much you disagree and argue, you and the most beautiful person you meet will be in love with each other two hours later.

I once got into a conversation where I ended up applying 'beautiful', 'handsome' or 'cute' to roughly 80% of the people around my age that I've met.

But yeah, the rest of that races sounds like a load of overpowered abilities. Maybe they hang out with the Munchkin race filled with people who are really strong and tough.

TheThan
2015-07-26, 05:39 PM
Hollywood.

That weird race we see in the movies who are all beautiful, healthy, and athletic, everybody you meet is beautiful, and however much you disagree and argue, you and the most beautiful person you meet will be in love with each other two hours later.

This only human. because I'M A MAN!, I'd want that male power fantasy we all see in fantasy art. Broad chested, chiseled and toned nicely tanned, obviously strong; looks good in a loincloth or Speedo. you get the idea.

Cealocanth
2015-07-26, 06:48 PM
Is this something decided by the parents in the zygotic or pre-zygotic stage, or is this something decided by people once they can afford it? If it's the latter, then is this genetic change mechanism cheap enough that an average person would go down to their local body sculptor for a few tweaks to their form on a regular basis (like a barber shop), or is this expensive enough that a person would be lucky to get such a choice during their lifetime?

If it's readily available and cheap, then people would go around changing their forms on a whim. It would be difficult to tell people apart, and likely language would develop to compensate. You would see a lot more wolfmen and zombies around Halloween, for example.

If this is the kind of thing that people are stuck with their entire lives, then, while you would probably see people pick fantasy races or popular aliens like Klingons on occassion, you would most likely see an idealized human form emerge in the masses. Most people are not okay with forcing their children to live their entire lives as an orc. This is because of the fear or being made fun of and deviating from the social norm. The openness of society has to develop after this, and even then it would happen very gradually. For a few centuries after the invention of this technology, the majority would simply choose an idealized 'perfect' human form that coincides with their culture. The exception to this would probably be traits that are seen as better than human. People with angelic wings in Western Culture would probably be thought of as lucky instead of freakish.

Daedroth
2015-07-26, 07:04 PM
Is this something decided by the parents in the zygotic or pre-zygotic stage, or is this something decided by people once they can afford it? If it's the latter, then is this genetic change mechanism cheap enough that an average person would go down to their local body sculptor for a few tweaks to their form on a regular basis (like a barber shop), or is this expensive enough that a person would be lucky to get such a choice during their lifetime?


Is the latter, but is transmited to your offspring. The choice is lifetime and irreversible but cheap enough.



This is because of the fear or being made fun of and deviating from the social norm. The openness of society has to develop after this, and even then it would happen very gradually.

This technology was around during several centuries so the openness of society was gradually opening. Off course the "beautiful races" were the first widespread ones. That was also what lead several alien species contacting Earth (Before centuries of reluctance because they were worried about human closeness) and a few of them living alognside human.



For a few centuries after the invention of this technology, the majority would simply choose an idealized 'perfect' human form that coincides with their culture. The exception to this would probably be traits that are seen as better than human. People with angelic wings in Western Culture would probably be thought of as lucky instead of freakish.

Probably

The Fury
2015-07-26, 10:32 PM
If I could pick which appearance to get... Maybe a gnome as presented in Pathfinder. I get to be a living cartoon character! My life's ambition is fulfilled! That or tiefling. Specifically the human-ish type that have horns, fangs, slit pupils and generally look pretty darn cool. I wouldn't want the tail though. I think it might get in the way or get stuck in doors or something.



For now i considered those races, variants share game mechanics with the main kind:
Catfolk, the standard model is basic cat girl/cat boy but can go from there to full furry catfolk
Foxfolk, same variants than catfolk
Centaur, with variants using other mammals or even reptiles
Elf, being a variant dark elf
Merfolk, being scylla and other similar beings variants of merfolk
Dryad, being other plan-like creatures like alraune variants
Pixies
Beastfolk, being wolfman, bearman and lionman the 3 standard and having variants on similar animals.
Dragonfolk, ranges from few dragonlike features to humanoid dragon (a humanoid sized one)
Demonfolk, being the standard the succubus model but being less subtle demons also posible
Arachtaur, being "drider" the main design, but having variants with scorpions or other arthropods.
Nagas, from simple "just a snake tail" to yuan-ti, can have snake hair.
Angels, with black-winged variants and a Lilend (angel with snake tail) model.
Minotaur, from legit minotaur to just having horns and tail.
Darkfolk, fake vampires for goths
Satyr, with faun variant

Added after doing the first post
Orc, added because of Anonymouswizard point
Dwarf, added because of Anonymouswizard point
Smallfolk, including halflings, goblins and gnomes

Working on: Avianfolk

Non-human races:
Steel men: Inteligent robots
Slimes: Extreterrestrial life
The Plague: Extraterrestrial life, "Xenomorph type"

Yeah, this seems pretty in-line with what I gather most people would be into. Though something someone might try to do is a "mix 'n match" of different features, like catfolk tabby-stripes, blue skin, full-on furry wolf-face, and orc tusks.

Grek
2015-07-26, 11:51 PM
This sounds a LOT like eclipse phase style morphs. So why not just go through the biomorph list for possibilities?

http://eclipse-phase.wikispaces.com/Morphs#Morphs!-Biomorphs
http://eclipse-phase.wikispaces.com/Personal+Augmentations#Bioware

E: I personally would go for a "pixie" morph. ~2 feet tall, ultra lightweight and with wings that can support the reduced mass independently.

Daedroth
2015-07-27, 05:23 AM
If I could pick which appearance to get... Maybe a gnome as presented in Pathfinder. I get to be a living cartoon character! My life's ambition is fulfilled! That or tiefling. Specifically the human-ish type that have horns, fangs, slit pupils and generally look pretty darn cool. I wouldn't want the tail though. I think it might get in the way or get stuck in doors or something.

Cool


This sounds a LOT like eclipse phase style morphs. So why not just go through the biomorph list for possibilities?

http://eclipse-phase.wikispaces.com/...phs!-Biomorphs
http://eclipse-phase.wikispaces.com/...ations#Bioware

E: I personally would go for a "pixie" morph. ~2 feet tall, ultra lightweight and with wings that can support the reduced mass independently.

Thanks! Now i have the perfect slur for "normal" humans, flats.
In post-apocalypsis time, the "normal" human is extint, but sometimes, one child borns without a race alteration, this is considered a deformity and are called names like "unevolved", "defective", "mongrel" and now... "Flat".
PD: No, post-apocalipse society is not near as open as pre-apocalypse one.

Jay R
2015-07-27, 08:14 AM
This only human. because I'M A MAN!, I'd want that male power fantasy we all see in fantasy art. Broad chested, chiseled and toned nicely tanned, obviously strong; looks good in a loincloth or Speedo. you get the idea.

Frazettoids!

Anonymouswizard
2015-07-27, 08:29 AM
So where would it go after a few generations of large chests for both sexes? :smalltongue:

Though I generally make the point to go the other way in my settings, as both my family and several of my friends having a tendency towards back problems.

Hawkstar
2015-07-27, 09:36 AM
So where would it go after a few generations of large chests for both sexes? :smalltongue:

Though I generally make the point to go the other way in my settings, as both my family and several of my friends having a tendency towards back problems.

Back reinforcement enhancements, obviously.

Winter_Wolf
2015-07-27, 10:24 AM
Hm, if it were me I'd go for tall (for a) dwarf or beast folk as represented in the Phantasy Star Universe series. Hey why not, they were essentially an artificial ("man made") race anyway. Essentially stronger, more robust build, able to withstand extremes of temperature better, overall better health. Prone to violent rage and ferocity...no I do not consider that as a handicap. Able to grow a sexy beard instead my sad patchy stubble.

One Tin Soldier
2015-07-27, 11:02 AM
I honestly can't see myself going for anything other than full-on dragon. Like, 4 legs, wings, all that funness. Doing it without sacrificing manual dexterity would be ideal. Think Jake Long, basically.


Yeah, this seems pretty in-line with what I gather most people would be into. Though something someone might try to do is a "mix 'n match" of different features, like catfolk tabby-stripes, blue skin, full-on furry wolf-face, and orc tusks.

So a WoW troll, then?

Knaight
2015-07-27, 11:12 AM
I'd want to stay human, though if the morphs include fantasy abilities like shape-shifting, rapid regeneration, and all that good stuff I'd be all over it. With that said, I'm also a proponent of a significantly better appearance. Less fat, more muscle*, some minor facial shape changes on top of that, hair color changes, and all that would be grabbed. There are also some trends in fantasy towards having some different internal organs, and that I would be all over. Maybe a backup heart, the genetic removal of vestigial pointless organs, some slight reworking of the internal organs in the neck that prevents the joys of accidentally inhaling water, so on and so forth. Minor skeletal changes could also be welcome, particularly in the context of reinforced ribs, spine changes that remove the various spine problems our species is so vulnerable to, and expanding beyond just the bones joint changes that make it significantly harder to sprain or dislocate or otherwise damage limbs would be nice.

*By which I mean something more along the lines of kickboxer muscles than bodybuilder muscles.

Winter_Wolf
2015-07-28, 09:20 AM
I wonder, how would you resolve the issue of increased durability decreasing articulation and mobility. I'm genuinely interested because as it is, there's always a trade off between the two. Also I've seen some brawny kick boxers, are you talking more about muscle tone vs bulk, or somewhere between ripped and massive?

Knaight
2015-07-28, 10:04 AM
I wonder, how would you resolve the issue of increased durability decreasing articulation and mobility. I'm genuinely interested because as it is, there's always a trade off between the two. Also I've seen some brawny kick boxers, are you talking more about muscle tone vs bulk, or somewhere between ripped and massive?

I'm talking about having well developed muscles, while ideally being somewhat shy of ripped and keeping the mobility I'm used to. As for the conflict between durability and mobility with bone structure, at least part of that is a straightforward materials problem. Stronger materials in the same shape that aren't significantly denser don't necessarily have a tradeoff.

Anonymouswizard
2015-07-28, 10:08 AM
Back reinforcement enhancements, obviously.

Assuming there isn't suddenly a massive trend in the other direction. Bodies will become fashion. :smalltongue:

Taejang
2015-07-28, 10:11 AM
The idea of people sticking to established "subtypes", like elf and gnome, is probably incorrect. These would be the first things tried out, but after hundreds of years of experimentation and theory-crafting, I suspect most modifications wouldn't stick to our established "races" at all. They may look like an elf for aesthetic reasons, but the modifications involved would be anything but "elf-like" under the skin. With this in mind, you need to establish physical restrictions on capabilities. Strength would be tied to size and weight: you must be a certain height/length and weight to have a strength score of 18, or whatever. This would enable some semblance of trade-off for the characters. It would just be understood that a dexterity score of 10 may be average for your post-apoc world, but would be the equivalent to a 20 in most RP systems, because their forms are so heavily modified and perfected.

Assuming these are all transformations that survived the apocalypse, you need to define what society was like before the apocalypse to know what would have been common then. The furry thing is a big deal in certain western cultures right now, but five centuries from now, maybe murlocks are "all the rage."

Was there starvation before the apocalypse, possibly due to limited resources? Then forms that require limited food intake (i.e. are energy efficient) and forms that allow hoarding (like a camel) would be popular. Some kind of photosynthesis adaptation, so the person could get nutrients from sunlight alone, may also be common, as would the ability to eat non-standard foods (like dirt).

Was there war or conflict (possibly with aliens, possibly with humans, possibly just standard police actions against the same level of crime we see today)? If so, then night vision, tough skin, slight, dextrous, yet strong builds will be common among descendants of soldiers/police. Additional appendages would benefit a soldier; a two-handed rifle improves stability considerably, but a tripod-design is yet more stable. Or a two-handed rifle with the third hand being used to rapidly reload, or adjust settings on the weapon. Foldable wings, gills, and the ability to crawl across a ceiling would also be very common among this group- mobility is a huge advantage in any conflict.

No matter what societal norms were like, I'd expect some form of telepathic communication to emerge. If you allow it, anyway. And speaking of extra-sensory, extra senses would likely be common. Think echo-location, or heat-vision, or electrical charge sense like some sharks have, at least for the underwater builds, those kinds of things.

Psionics in general, if you allow it in your setting, would probably have been very, very common (who doesn't want to be a jedi?).

An increased ability to balance would likely be common, since nobody likes falling over. We could all walk the high wire without training.

With all this genetic manipulation going on, the following may well be within the range of possibilities:
Children born with the instincts necessary to be "potty-trained" (or at least capable of pooping; yes, children have to learn how to poop)
Children capable of eating solid food from birth (or perhaps within a few days)
Children capable of walking within hours of birth (many animals can do this)
Instinctual behavior for safety around whatever technology was common at the time (for instance, in our time that would mean instinctual understanding that a stovetop is hot and should not be touched, roads shouldn't be played on, guns are not toys, etc)
Development rates would be increased, so children may reach maturity much, much faster. This would markedly alter society, and probably lead to further tampering to help with the resultant psychological effects
The female reproductive system would be redesigned. This would be top-priority for half the world's population, really. No more periods with wacky hormonal shifts and gross fluids pouring out. Menopause wouldn't be a thing, since that eliminates the ability to bear children
Male reproductive systems would also change. Soldiers and others common to conflict would put testicles inside the body to better protect them. Sperm would be more resilient to temperature changes
Body odor wouldn't be a thing for anyone. Nor would bad breath
Etc etc. The possibilities here are literally endless.

I'd be a super human. 6 feet tall (big enough to handle most wildlife, small enough to hide), thin and dextrous like an elf, strong as a half-giant. Immune to virtually all disease, extremely long life, able to handle my own basic needs within a few days from birth, and with a sophisticated digestive system that: increases my metabolism when I eat a lot (preventing excessive weight gain), slows down when food is scarce (longevity during starvation), and is capable of digesting just about anything (including poison) and pulling all nutritional content from it (meaning I wouldn't pee/poop much and could eat almost any substance for food). I'd have compact wings on my back, suitable for short flights but unsuitable for long-term flying. I'd have gills and a clear membrane to better protect my eyes from dirt, sand, or water. I'd have four arms, and each hand would be perfectly symmetrical (as in, two thumbs, one on each side of the palm, and three fingers, all the same length; this increases grip strength and dexterity, plus makes it easier to get gloves, since I wouldn't need separate "left" and "right" gloves). My skin would be extremely difficult to penetrate, and so long as I had adequate access to food, my speedy metabolism would result in very quick healing rates. My feet would be redesigned, more like a monkey; my feet could grip and manipulate things, yet the toes could be placed together to allow for boots when necessary for particularly rough terrain. I would have an eye in the back of my head, night vision and heat vision, echo location abilities, and my acute hearing would come fully equipped with a closable membrane to dampen loud noises. My olfactory senses would be acute but also equipped with a closable membrane for pungent odors. My blood would clot quickly, my hair would never grow longer than an inch or two, I wouldn't grow a beard or mustache, and my body would regrow teeth, should I lose any. My bones and teeth would be sturdier, my body would repair tendons, ligaments, and cartilage better (particularly in places like the knees, where it often wears out), and I would have a prehensile tail to assist with balance, gripping things, etc. A skin flap on my tail would open to help stabilize me during flight, and the tail itself could wrap around one leg to hide in pants. I would be immune to sunburns, zits, and cancer. My body would replace lost brain cells and I would have a photographic memory. "Muscle memory" would develop very quickly for me. My saliva would kill odor-causing bacteria in my mouth, keep my teeth clean and white, and have antiseptic and anesthetic properties (so kissing a "boo-boo" better really would take the pain away). I would have a poison gland in my mouth, enabling me to spit poison up to thirty feet away with remarkable accuracy; this poison would be acidic, eating away at the flesh (mostly eyes and membranes), but also able to damage sensitive electronics. I would, of course, be immune to my own poison. All four of my arms would be able to reach every spot on my back, making it impossible for an assailant to remain there, no matter the thing's size (and also making it possible to scratch any itch). My immune system would handle all parasites effectively and quickly. I would have psionic abilities, enabling me to communicate at a distance, read minds or feelings, manipulate objects at a distance, or crush windpipes (no pansy choking like Vader, but crush the windpipe instantly, enabling me to shift my focus elsewhere). As an extension of my psionic abilities, I would be resistant to mental tampering. I would, of course, be able to selectively forget memories, helping to keep myself from psychological trauma but also enabling me to forget unimportant details and keep space available for new learning. I would have redundant organs and a backup nervous system. I could climb along a ceiling, I would be resistant to extreme cold and extreme heat, and my body would regrow any of my limbs that might be severed.

And it would all be justified, as these are all feasible alterations a soldier might have had before the apocalypse. I'm probably forgetting a few things, but this is a literal wall of text, so...

Holy crap, you wrote a book, TL;DR: I would be resistant or immune to all types of damage, physically able to do almost anything, and capable of learning anything very quickly. It would be functionally impossible to keep my character contained, and I would unintentionally break every semblance of plot you ever attempted to design.

DrewID
2015-07-28, 04:43 PM
Late-80s-ish, Charles Sheffield wrote "Sight of Proteus", "Proteus Unbound" & "Proteus In The Underworld (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proteus_In_The_Underworld)" about a Earth society where Purposive Form Change is the basis for society, and the instructions (copyrighted and sellable) for new forms are a major industry. The wiki page for the third book (the only one I never read) describes it in more detail. Might be worth looking for a copy.

There are forms that just look cool, forms that are better for specific jobs, forms that live longer, etc.

DrewID

The Fury
2015-07-28, 11:28 PM
So a WoW troll, then?

Is that what they look like? I was just adding fantasy creature traits randomly to come up with something ridiculous. Though to my shame I forgot to include a tail, so... Snake lower-half but the end is all fluffy like a fox tail.

Daedroth
2015-07-29, 07:48 AM
Was there starvation before the apocalypse, possibly due to limited resources? Then forms that require limited food intake (i.e. are energy efficient) and forms that allow hoarding (like a camel) would be popular. Some kind of photosynthesis adaptation, so the person could get nutrients from sunlight alone, may also be common, as would the ability to eat non-standard foods (like dirt).

Not really, it was a near-utopian society at that point.


Was there war or conflict (possibly with aliens, possibly with humans, possibly just standard police actions against the same level of crime we see today)? If so, then night vision, tough skin, slight, dextrous, yet strong builds will be common among descendants of soldiers/police. Additional appendages would benefit a soldier; a two-handed rifle improves stability considerably, but a tripod-design is yet more stable. Or a two-handed rifle with the third hand being used to rapidly reload, or adjust settings on the weapon. Foldable wings would also be very common among this group- mobility is a huge advantage in any conflict. Along the mobility lines, the ability to climb horizontal surfaces would be common, as would gills or something for underwater operations.

Near-utopian, except few conflicts with Steel Men that were resolved with diplomacy there was no conflict or crime. Thas was one of the reason because with that hight level of technology apocalipse managed to destroy civilization, they were not really prepared for conclict.



With all this genetic manipulation going on, the following may well be within the range of possibilities:
Children born with the instincts necessary to be "potty-trained" (or at least capable of pooping; yes, children have to learn how to poop)
Children capable of eating solid food from birth (or perhaps within a few days)
Children capable of walking within hours of birth (many animals can do this)
Instinctual behavior for safety around whatever technology was common at the time (for instance, in our time that would mean instinctual understanding that a stovetop is hot and should not be touched, roads shouldn't be played on, guns are not toys, etc)
Development rates would be increased, so children may reach maturity much, much faster. This would markedly alter society, and probably lead to further tampering to help with the resultant psychological effects
The female reproductive system would be redesigned. This would be top-priority for half the world's population, really. No more periods with wacky hormonal shifts and gross fluids pouring out. Menopause wouldn't be a thing, since that eliminates the ability to bear children
Male reproductive systems would also change. Soldiers and others common to conflict would put testicles inside the body to better protect them. Sperm would be more resilient to temperature changes
Body odor wouldn't be a thing for anyone. Nor would bad breath
Etc etc. The possibilities here are literally endless.

That is really useful, good point.



I thank everyone for their opinions, now i have my ideas pretty clear.