Paladin/Warlock ¿How to roleplay it?

[zinycor]

I think that a paladin/warlock combo could work just fine mechanicaly. But I really don't see how to roleplay such a thing, besides the oath of the ancients with the fey patron...

But the other combos don't really make lots of sense in my mind. But I could be wrong... How would you approach that situation?

[Occasional Sage]

That's a fairly broad question. Is there a particular combination you want to use, and need help? Or is this really "List all the methods of roleplaying all the possible mashups"?

[Sigreid]

Vengeance could work with a devil that specifically is focused on punishing the wicked. Devotion could work for a GOO patron since the pally is unlikely to understand his patron enough to know what's going on.

[HoarsHalberd]

I think that a paladin/warlock combo could work just fine mechanicaly. But I really don't see how to roleplay such a thing, besides the oath of the ancients with the fey patron...

But the other combos don't really make lots of sense in my mind. But I could be wrong... How would you approach that situation?

Oath of Devotion doesn't really work unless you get a good fey of some sort or it doesn't know what it's doing.. But OoV has no qualms about doing evil to fight the greater evil. So all three pacts make sense for it. And obviously Oathbreaker/warlock the patron could be the reason you fell.

[Eisenheim]

oath of ancients and fey pact warlock is a completely logical combination, to my mind.

[Naanomi]

Oaths are about trying to do those things, one can fail and seek redemption. Being tricked by a fiend, misunderstand a GOO pact, go too far into vengeance and make deals to punish other evil... And then regret it, and seek to make up for it (even though you can't 'give the power back').

Also remember you don't take your oath at first level... Paladin 1-2/Warlock X/Paladin +Y is a good making for a story of shakey faith in the beginning leading to conviction later on

[Sigreid]

It occurs to me that a GOO could set up any paladin just toying with him/studying humanity. It would be roughly equivalent to mucking about with a rat in a maze.

[burninatortrog]

Re-flavor!

[Drackolus]

A warlock does not necessarily agree with his patron - he just uses him for power. Some have an antagonistic relationship with each other. Makes the most sense with a vengeance paladin, who feels that he needs to use demon powers to get stronger so that he can smite evil better. Pragmatic, those ones.

EDIT: English.

[Naanomi]

A warlock does not necessarily agree with his patron - he just uses him for power. Some have an antagonistic relationship with each other.
That is a great idea, a Devotion paladin defeats a fiend but cannot destroy it, and is left with no choice but to bind it to himself rather than let it escape

[Daishain]

That is a great idea, a Devotion paladin defeats a fiend but cannot destroy it, and is left with no choice but to bind it to himself rather than let it escape
Similar theme. Inevitable failure looms, and who shows up but a dapper devil with a diabolical deal. Taking the deal was the lesser evil at the time, but now breaking this bond without compromising integrity any further is a constant struggle.

[Princess]

If you consider warlock powers to be permanent once gained (i.e., you can turn against your patron and still hang on to what you already have), than any warlock later becoming a paladin after a dramatic shift in motivations or values works out.

And obviously the Fey Paladin/Fey Warlock combo is perfect as is.

And I love the idea of a Vengeance Paladin who fights demons entering into a pact with a Devil (who are evil, but at least they follow rules and tend to punish the wicked) or Old One (who operate under totally Alien morality but are at least *less* likely than a demon to kill and devour all the innocents they can) in order to accomplish some goals... because really if demons are about to win a whole slew of otherwise unspeakable options now make sense according to Vengeance Paladin reasoning.

Or, of course, you could try and homebrew a Celestial Warlock option and mix it with the Oath of Devotion unimpeded.

[Tarvil]

If I tried to build character like that, I would go for one of this ideas

1. Pally who accidentally made pact with demon/devil (maybe because of his bloodline, maybe he did that to bind him, maybe he was victim of some strange ritual)

2. Venge Pally who agreed to make deal with devil/demon/cthulhu/whatever to kill his sworn enemy, and now he's stuck with new friend.

3. Ancient Pally who have connection with good Archfey on the basis of Knight-Lady or Vassal-Lord relationship

IMO, third option is the most interesting. Rest are too mary suish for me.

[Steampunkette]

Re-flavor!

^This.

Reflavor the Warlock levels to a stronger Paladin bond to her deity granting more magical power and ignore the whole "Evil Patron" thing. Have the Deity drop Jerk Angels (Constantine Style) on her with various quests to fill in the same story role of the Evil Patron.

Make the Warlock Levels inherent natural mystical power, Sorceror Style, rather than power granted by the evil patron. Have the character abandoned by her parents to the local church where she owes the hierarchy her life and devotes herself wholly to the cause, with "The Church" filling the role of Evil Patron and sending her on morally questionable missions which she has to reconcile with her strong bond with her God, Van Helsing style.

Personally I find those angles much more fun than most.

[Naanomi]

Vengeance Paladins strike me as the type who think they can 'win' the deal... Use the power now, kill the fiend who made the pact later, win-win

[Blacky the Blackball]

I played a paladin/warlock who had warlock powers because their grandmother was a succubus and it was "in his blood". But he wanted to distance himself from that part of his family tree (which he found terribly embarrassing) and became a paladin as a kind of overcompensation.

[ZenBear]

What class will you be starting out with? How many levels? If you go Paladin 2/Warlock X you never actually take your Oath.

[Dizlag]

I can see a Paladin making a pact with an evil creature as sort of a "self-sacrifice" for his/her order. He/she would be making the pact to try to understand the evil one's plans and bring that knowledge to the leaders of the church.

Or maybe a group of clerics and paladins (this paladin included) were set out from their church to explore an ancient ruins. Lo and behold, a connection to a Great Old One was found completely destroying the entire expedition by driving them all mad. All except for this paladin who made the pact as a "self-sacrifice" to keep the evil from spreading through out the region or world. And ever since, it's been a struggle to keep his/her faith in their god as well as keep up the ruse with the pact ... or is at a ruse, still? =)

Dizlag

[Spiriah]

Perhaps a character makes a pact with a fiend to gain power, but then has a change of heart and turns to the path of a paladin as a form of atonement?

[Dimolyth]

Devotion palladin who fell in love with a succubus and wants to make her better? Even plans to save her soul from Asmodeus one day and ressurect her?

Just any-oath palladin-tiefling, who is supported by his grandfather for any reasonning?

Ancient pally who seeks the knowledge of days of creation and gets GOO pact for investigation?

Any pally, who managed to siphon powers from GOO without allowance of that Old One?

Vengeance pally, who is ready to make a pact with any power just to avenge destruction of his homeland?

Warlock, who made a terrible things, and wants to redeem them, by following a code of conduct. Just strugling himself, when demands of the patron and his own morality are in the conflict (pehaps that is for lawer-players)?

And so on. Once I looked at a cleric of Helm (LN God of Protection) multiclassed to demon-pacting warlock. That was crazy enough, though it was supported by a huge backstory to prove)

[YPU]

I have to agree that pretty much all of the combos can make for interesting options. Some very logical (ancient, fey) some obviously clashing. I think that for the second kind you should really work with the DM to get role-play opportunities with this. Its all well and good to struggle with your inner demons but what about that outer devil? Fey also rather depends on how your playing them. I would take inspiration from the dresden files where fey are very mischievous but also bound by strict rules and laws. In fact those familiar with the dresden files might take a great deal of inspiration from the winter knight, who could be a power for good, struggling against his malicious patron.

[mealar]

one possibility i looked at was using the villainous class option, idea was a paladin who broke his oath by making a deal with a demon for more power. also gives to opportunity for possible redemption and killing your new master.

[Anderlith]

Silver Flame Themed Devotion Paladin that has unknowingly become a servant to the fiend in the flame (Fiend Warlock) & doesn't need much fluffing

[Nifft]

Holy men using demons for their own purposes isn't a new concept -- but it's not a safe concept either.

Perhaps the Paladin's Pact is not with the Fiend, it's with the (holy and divine) Jailer.

Perhaps the Paladin's Pact is with the Fiend is consecrated -- the divinities of Good feel that the Paladin would be a good teacher for the Fiend.

Perhaps, by making the Pact, the Paladin becomes one of the bars in the prison which holds the Fiend and/or the Great Old One.

[Daishain]

Perhaps, by making the Pact, the Paladin becomes one of the bars in the prison which holds the Fiend and/or the Great Old One.
He wasn't a paladin, but I had a GOO warlock that went this route. Discovered a sleeping entity, found a way to siphon power off. Discovered that by doing so, he could keep the creature asleep indefinitely.

[Mechaviking]

A friend fluffed warlock class levels and powers as his vampire bloodline(Ala Grey Prince of Oblivion fame), and matched it with his hatred for evil(venge pally).

I fluffed singleclass old one lock as a person with a shard of an Illithid god in his brain.

[PoeticDwarf]

I think that a paladin/warlock combo could work just fine mechanicaly. But I really don't see how to roleplay such a thing, besides the oath of the ancients with the fey patron...

But the other combos don't really make lots of sense in my mind. But I could be wrong... How would you approach that situation?

In 5e there isn't often a problem with class/alingment. Maybe just simple somebody who is good but the devil/alien/fey still can use him. Or somebody who is LG but who has a bond with a devil/alien/fey.

I think this build would be good, but I'm not sure.

[Zarohk]

My own solution was a slight reflavoring of both sides. My character was raised in a cult that worships / revers a GOO that barely realizes they exist. She was trained as a warrior, and so even though she has powers (Warlock) derived from the GOO, has learned to channel them in a more combative manner.

I actually use the Oathbreaker paladin form, with the two types of Channel Divinity being the GOO forcing its way into the world. The Dreadful Aspect is just it filling her with its presence, which is so monstrous and wrong that animals and everyone with an ounce of sanity runs away, while the Control Undead is actually the GOO puppetting an undead body in order to understand resurrection for its own attempt to make or steal bodies for itself permanently. You could probably do something similar with Oath of the Ancients, just replacing vines with tentacles for Nature's Wrath, and eldritch speech hurting beings certainly has a precedent.

Because nobody said that a paladin has to be correct about the nature of their patron. And really, with Warlocks getting 2 major spells a day and Clerics getting 2 uses of Channel Divinity, you could easily have an in-story case of a Warlock who thinks they're a clerk of their patron.

[DracoKnight]

How I've seen it done:

A demon (re-fluffed tiefling) PC joined the party, and started to become good, as the party rubbed off on him. Eventually we experienced a TPK, and the demon was shunted back to the Abyss. While their he reviled the way his brethren behaved, after spending time amongst the mortals. He set out to seek a better place for himself amongst the planes. Through the course of his quest he met a half-orc (a member of the next party) and bound the Half-orc into a pact with him (treating the half-orc like a cleric). Together they quested, and eventually the demon (N)PC discovered that the best place for himself was in the heavens, so he sought to prove himself to the gods.

Long story short, he did, and he ascended to divinity, becoming the Ronin, god of the wanderers and tamer of the seas (Light and Tempest Domain). Upon witnessing his companions ascension, the half-orc swore a new Oath of Devotion to his Patron/God.

Now, the party that replaced our TPK'd party started at 10th level, so all of this was baked into the half-orc's backstory, and the player had DM buy-in. But this is the best example I've seen at my table of the Paladin/Warlock multiclass, other than the Fey Knight (Archfey Warlock/Ancients Paladin).

[Maxilian]

I have a Paladin / Warlock that i want to play, that its basically a group of Paladins, that make the ultimate sacrifice, they bind their soul with the soul of a Demon / Fiend, to use its power for the greater good and become its jailer and jail.

[kladams707]

Perhaps you fell battling the forces evil. It wasn't your god who came to you but a fiend promising to restore your life. Devoting it to your god, and he nowhere to be found to resurrect you, you see clearly now. Evil will always win. But there's still some part of you that still wants to fight so you accept the fiend's deal. It cares not what cause you devote yourself to or what god should your faith be restored. It only cares that it will have your soul when next you fall. You awaken with a newfound clarity. Much less hopeful, yet you still fight against evil (and perhaps even still for your god). Only this time, you simply go through the motions. Your actions aren't based on conviction but habit because in the end, for you doesn't matter. The result will always be the same

[Millstone85]

So many undead threads recently.

[DracoKnight]

So many undead threads recently.

Unfortunately I didn't notice the date on this one before replying :smalltongue:

[BW022]

But the other combos don't really make lots of sense in my mind. But I could be wrong... How would you approach that situation?

There are no end to possibilities... if you look at how the character gained the pact and stop thinking that it is willing service.

1. The character is forcing the patron to serve. Maybe the character learned the beings true name or (unintentionally) set the character free.

2. The character was unaware of the patron's nature. Maybe the creature tricked the character as a child, their parents were in a cult, etc. Maybe the patron is trying to appear good to slowly trick the paladin.

3. The patron and character are working together for a mutual goal. The paladin wants to hunt-down/banish a powerful demon in his world. A demon's brother wants him returned to his plane also. So the demon's brother is helping out the paladin.

4. Maybe the character didn't have a choice. Perhaps the patron saved the character's family. The paladin is honor bound to agree to some terms.

5. Maybe the character isn't good.

6. Maybe the two are bound together accidentally. Perhaps the character found an ancient book, necklace, or interrupted a "possession" ritual from some cultists. Maybe the patron can't "join" with anyone else for 99 years... so he's stuck with the character.

7. Maybe the patron isn't evil. Despite the flavor-text of the warlock class, it can work easily with any powerful creature. Instead of Pact of the Fiend... think Pact of the Brass Dragon, Pact of the Elemental Lord, etc. Instead of the Great Old One... think Planatar, Angel, or other powerful Celestial.

8. The patron serves the paladin's god. Many gods have powerful outer worldly servants -- Solars, magical beasts, animal companions, demi-gods, aspects of nature, etc. Many of these can serve as a patron. This works well with cleric/warlocks or paladin/warlocks. The god of War might have a demi-god son. The god of the Sky might have a powerful elemental lord serving him. The god of the Forests might have an eternal treant. etc. Even if they don't have a someone directly... maybe a powerful servants of the god died with an unfinished quest, and was sent to 'help' the paladin.

etc., etc.

You only need some creativity.

[Zorku]

Devotion Vengeance Ancients
Fiend Fey GOO

DFi
Playing it straight: You can't stand your "patron." You thought you'd just act in opposition against every little thing he whispered in your ears, but the bastard is really good at reverse psychology, and you can't let him keep manipulating you so easily. Right now the best you can do is try to make the same decisions you would have made anyway, but you know he's contriving situations where things will go very poorly for the most vulnerable people if you don't tap into that well of power he's granting you. Maybe one day you can outsmart him, but there's so much on the line for other people that you don't know if you dare try.

Refluff: You've always had a fire burning inside of you, and it burns brighter the stronger your conviction is. Anime AF.

DFey
Playing it straight: Sort of a dark Libertarian. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer, which is exactly the way it should be. When you get a good chance you part the undeserving rich of their wealth, just as readily dump that same wealth into a swamp, and you frequently screw with people just to find out if they handle it well. Most people are probably where they belong so you mainly play your tricks on people that have been lucky lately, and you think we'd all be better off if we stopped this "living in dense cities" nonsense. Other people seem to think that would mean a lot more getting mauled by bears and worse, but they're crazy. (Hopefully nobody's politics find this offensive. At least to my eye I didn't hide any insults in here.)

Refluff: You know what you want, what you want is in everyone's best interests, and most anyone reasonable will give that to you as best as they can. You're charming and inspiring and people look up to you. You're pretty much the main character in a story about how you save the day and bring peace and harmony to the land. Any time that's not the case you're out of your element and you'll pretty much try any random thing to try and get the world back on track, the way it's supposed to be.

DGOO
Playing it straight: You've got your virtues just like the others, but there's this gnawing uncertainty clawing its way into your head. You're out of your element a lot more often and you don't really understand how you got there or how you got back out, but you're getting good at rolling with it.

Refluff: Inverse Sailor Moon. "By the light of the darkness between the stars, I will punish you!" You've got some strange and rare power, and damn straight you're going to refluff disguise self as your magical girl transformation sequence. Also Anime AF, but slightly shojou instead of shonen. Unless you're doing that in a city campaign most of your tv references are never going to find a home, but there's lots of other determinator material to draw from to make this your own thing.

VFiend
Playing it straight: Several others have already described this pretty well. You call on the fiend to serve your own goals, and the fiend is happy to oblige you in this destructive behavior.

Reflavor: Also going to borrow from another fiend idea in this thread. You're the main character of the Shadows of the Damned vidja game. Since that's an ok title I won't spoil it by explaining what idea I've borrowed.

VFey
Playing it straight: You're very serious and you've got something to always be working towards, but these murmuring pixies are slowly but surely teaching you how to lighten up and enjoy the moment once in awhile... but then you catch wind of your quarry and you're right back into that.

Reflavor: You're a socialite as manipulative as they come, and soon your plan will come together to disgrace and bring low one or several noble families. You're quite good at pretending to be less important than you actually are, but you're a key player in just about every heist movie, and you'll leave the investigators scratching their heads when the dust settles.

VGoo
Playing it straight: What better reason to wade knee deep into chaotic and mind bending magics than to bring down your vengeance upon the heads of your enemies?

Reflavor: Dr Jeckel and Mr Hyde, but also with a laser eye and some voodoo trinkets.

AFiend
I can't really square this one. Fiends seem to delight in torturing the devout, but they just kind of burn and ruin nature on their way to other things. Maybe somebody else can come up with a straight take and a reflavoring of this that's not so bipolar as everything that flits through my head.

AFey
Everyone already seems to see how compatible these are so I'm skipping it.

AGOO
Playing it straight: A lot of the wonder people derive from nature is the mystery of it, and what's more mysterious than inscrutable forces from before the dawn of time?

Reflavor: Poison Ivy. An amalgam of science and nature gone equally mad. You can still blend in when you need to, but it's pretty much always in service of fairly chaotic goals that nobody can understand except in the most trivial and straightforward descriptions of your motivation. Despite all of that, you're somehow a good influence on that blond gal. e: Maybe she's more AFey... well, probably depends on which series you look at.


Aside from the one combo that my mind rejects, that's at least one way to cover every base, and I bet you can come up with alternatives for every example if you're motivated enough.