[3.5] Weird Build Request

[Thurbane]

Need help with a build - it's a suboptimal build, but suggestions are welcome.

I'm looking at set-list caster (Dread Necro or Warmage) 4/Martial Adept 4.

Feats will include Versatile Spellcaster (for 3rd level spells) and Practiced Spellcaster (for CL 8).

Again, yes, I understand this is a suboptimal build - but within those limits, what race, feats, classes etc. would you recommend?

Cheers - T

[BioCharge]

Which martial adept and what are you looking to do? Base recommendations:
Stealthy - Swordsage/Beguiler, though you have trouble with mind-affecting enemies.

Tanky/Healer - Crusader/Cleric/Ruby Knight Vindicator (or, if you want Dread Necro, drop RKV, take Tomb-tainted soul to heal yourself with both positive and negative)

Damage - Warblade/Warmage/Jade Phoenix Mage

Feats depend on exactly what you want to do.

[Karnith]

If (as I interpreted it) you're set on base class fixed-list caster 4/base class initiator 4, then Dread Necromancer or Beguiler would probably be your best choices. Beguiler has a number of fairly good defensive spells (plus Haste, if you aren't benefiting from another caster in the party). Dread Necromancer is a good choice primarily because Rebuke Undead for access to Divine Might (with a Charisma focus) and other turning-powered feats like Travel Devotion. The Warmage spell list is pretty anti-synergistic with maneuvers, since it's mostly blasting.

[Abithrios]

Beguiler is a third option for the caster side, which you did not mention.

Warmage is widely considered the weakest of the three. If I recall correctly, it wants both high intelligence and charisma, which is bad for someone who also wants to go into melee. Additionally, a warmage probably wants to spend most of their standard actions in combat casting attack spells, while most initiators want to be using strikes. This means that there is an anti synergy between them. I imagine that it is not as bad for the other two casters, as they have more spells useful outside of combat. You could get around that by choosing mostly boosts and counters, but that requires more care. As a result, I would recommend either necro or beguiler as the caster.

Next, I would recommend you take a good hard look at jade phoenix mage. It is designed specifically to combine arcane magic with ToB. I don't remember what it requires, however.

Lastly, I would argue that if you set out with some design goals and you reach them, then you are optimized, even if UNLIMITED POWDER isn't one of those goals. You have a cool concept, and I think you can make it work. Don't be too hard on yourself.

[Gabrosin]

Lastly, I would argue that if you set out with some design goals and you reach them, then you are optimized, even if UNLIMITED POWDER isn't one of those goals. You have a cool concept, and I think you can make it work. Don't be too hard on yourself.

You can get unlimited powder through an infinite number of True Creation castings, or perhaps a carefully worded Wish.

[Thurbane]

I didn't mention Beguiler as I specifically didn't want Beguiler in this build (due to Beguilers already in the game), possibly should have mentioned that in the OP.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Human, Warmage 2/ Warblade 4/ Ruathar 1/ Warmage 1, Versatile Spellcaster, Practiced Spellcaster, Power Attack, Leap Attack.
At Warmage 3 use Eclectic Learning to get Wraithstrike as a 3rd level spell. It's absolutely necessary to get a prestige class level that gives +1 level of spellcasting before Warmage 3.

Maneuvers Known: Steel Wind, Charging Minotaur, Leading the Attack, Action Before Thought, Battle Leader's Charge, Iron Heart Surge
Stances Known: Leading the Charge, Absolute Steel Stance

Gear (27,000 gp PC, or 9,400 gp NPC)
Falchion +1 Valorous (UE), 8,375 gp (PC), or Falchion +1, 2,375 gp (NPC)
+ Wand Chamber (Dungeonscape), 100 gp
Mithralmist Shirt (MIC), 3,400 gp
+ Least Crystal of Adaptation (MIC), 500 gp
Armbands of Might (MIC), 4,100 gp (PC)
+ Enhancement bonus to Strength +2 (MIC p234), 4,000 gp (PC)
Healing Belt (MIC), 750 gp
Anklet of Translocation (MIC), 1,400 gp
Wand of Wraithstrike (SC), thirty-six charges, 3,240 gp (PC), or nine charges, 810 gp (NPC)
Vest of Resistance +1 (CA), 1,000 gp (PC)
135 gp (PC) or 65 gp (NPC) remaining, cherry-pick items from Shax's Indispensable Haversack (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?148101-3-x-Shax-s-Indispensible-Haversack-%28Equipment-Handbook%29)

[HolyCouncilMagi]

You can get unlimited powder through an infinite number of True Creation castings, or perhaps a carefully worded Wish.

Gah, beat me to it.

[Mr Adventurer]

Dread Necromancer 4/Warblade 2/Jade Phoenix Mage 2. Go DN5/Wb1 or even DN6 if you don't mind changing the levels about, to keep more spellcasting.

[Thurbane]

Human, Warmage 2/ Warblade 4/ Ruathar 1/ Warmage 1, Versatile Spellcaster, Practiced Spellcaster, Power Attack, Leap Attack.
At Warmage 3 use Eclectic Learning to get Wraithstrike as a 3rd level spell. It's absolutely necessary to get a prestige class level that gives +1 level of spellcasting before Warmage 3.

Maneuvers Known: Steel Wind, Charging Minotaur, Leading the Attack, Action Before Thought, Battle Leader's Charge, Iron Heart Surge
Stances Known: Leading the Charge, Absolute Steel Stance

Gear (27,000 gp PC, or 9,400 gp NPC)
Falchion +1 Valorous (UE), 8,375 gp (PC), or Falchion +1, 2,375 gp (NPC)
+ Wand Chamber (Dungeonscape), 100 gp
Mithralmist Shirt (MIC), 3,400 gp
+ Least Crystal of Adaptation (MIC), 500 gp
Armbands of Might (MIC), 4,100 gp (PC)
+ Enhancement bonus to Strength +2 (MIC p234), 4,000 gp (PC)
Healing Belt (MIC), 750 gp
Anklet of Translocation (MIC), 1,400 gp
Wand of Wraithstrike (SC), thirty-six charges, 3,240 gp (PC), or nine charges, 810 gp (NPC)
Vest of Resistance +1 (CA), 1,000 gp (PC)
135 gp (PC) or 65 gp (NPC) remaining, cherry-pick items from Shax's Indispensable Haversack (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?148101-3-x-Shax-s-Indispensible-Haversack-%28Equipment-Handbook%29)

Dread Necromancer 4/Warblade 2/Jade Phoenix Mage 2. Go DN5/Wb1 or even DN6 if you don't mind changing the levels about, to keep more spellcasting.

Fantastic - exactly the type of builds I was looking for!

[Mr Adventurer]

Dread Necromancer 4/Warblade 2/Jade Phoenix Mage 2. Go DN5/Wb1 or even DN6 if you don't mind changing the levels about, to keep more spellcasting.

If you're taking a spellcasting class, the rule of thumb is to lose as few casting levels as possible. Therefore, Dread Necromancer 6 with Martial Study twice and Martial Stance feats is best entry to Jade Phoenix Mage. Interesting 'living necromancy' style with the conjunction of DN and JPM, too.

Feats are taken care of. Skills must meet JPM requirements but then are free. Maneuvers for casters are best when they're counters or boosts.

[Deadline]

If you're taking a spellcasting class, the rule of thumb is to lose as few casting levels as possible. Therefore, Dread Necromancer 6 with Martial Study twice and Martial Stance feats is best entry to Jade Phoenix Mage. Interesting 'living necromancy' style with the conjunction of DN and JPM, too.

Feats are taken care of. Skills must meet JPM requirements but then are free. Maneuvers for casters are best when they're counters or boosts.

True, but in the case of martial maneuvers, a refresh mechanic is important. That means at least 1 level in either Warblade or Crusader (preferably crusader if alignment isn't and issue), so you can refresh maneuvers mid-encounter without a feat investment.

[Mr Adventurer]

Refresh is important, but the hard question is "is it as important as more casting levels?"...