Pathfinder Dreamscarred Press Announces - Steelforge Playtest [Archive]

Lord_Gareth

2015-07-25, 10:31 PM

Those of you who have been following our Path of War playtest might know that we had a planned item section that never made it in. We've been trying to get it in for two books now, in fact, and it didn't work out. In the team chat, a few weeks back, Anthony jokingly proposed that we just write an entire item book and stick 'em in there.

Introducing Steelforge, the second in Dreamscarred Press's 'forge line (which began with Bloodforge)!

Steelforge deals in another theme that all adventurers, regardless of class, handle - items. Alchemical, magical, or mundane, adventurers rely on their gear to help them solve problems, face down lethal enemies, and learn more about the world around them. The lure of powerful magical items can motivate a party or even provide the crux of a world-shaking plot. We at DSP haven't been strangers to the idea in the past - Ultimate Psionics is chock full of new items - but in addition to adding to the roster of exciting adventuring and worldbuilding tools available to you, Steelforge talks about the role of items in the game world, how emphasizing or banning certain items can help shape the game you want to portray, and provides new archetypes and prestige classes that alter how adventurers interact with items.

Our initial playtest document - about thirty pages long - can be found here (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1SrB0WBi4eCsZ990MtH4NlLzFuQzTpYRNuNg2EaK6YnU/edit?usp=sharing). As always, this is as live document that is subject to change and additions without warning. We're looking forward to playtesting with you fine folks, as well as with our fans on other communities, and hope you have fun with it.

My co-authors will be along to introduce themselves shortly, but you're familiar with all of them: Anthony (Path of War: Expanded), Matt (Bloodforge), Alex (Lords of the Night), and our newest addition to the freelancer pool, Jacob (who has currently written guides to the Akashic Mysteries classes, as well as for the Dread).

Ready?

Go!

PsyBomb

2015-07-25, 10:36 PM

As you may have guessed from Lord_Gareth's brief description, I am the Jacob he's talking about. This is my first project as a freelancer, and it's a completely different thing from the homebrewing I used to do. A lot more goes into it than meets the eye, and there is a ton of teamwork making sure that what makes it onto the document is worthy of seeing play. There is much, much more coming (seriously, you're currently seeing only 30 of an expected 80-page PDF), and as usual for DSP the more feedback it gets, the better it will come out.

leonfenrir

2015-07-25, 10:44 PM

Hi, Alex here.
As I mentioned in my introduction, when Lord_Gareth says "write", you say "how much".
This team is great to work with, and items are always fun. Writing items always starts with a "wait, why doesn't this exist" and often ends with "oh, that's why". Sometimes however, you do find niches that need filling, or even more broad ideas that for some reason just don't exist yet.
There's a lot more to come, but hopefully this is a good taste of what to expect.

Ssalarn

2015-07-25, 10:46 PM

I've got a bunch of Inevitable themed veils I was trying to decide where to put, let me know if you want to add them here (might be appropriate since some of them fill in the unsupported Craft and Profession skills).

Thealtruistorc

2015-07-25, 10:51 PM

Totally implementing the magecatcher net, warsong instruments, and chess pieces into my game. The only item I have any qualms with is the helm of lost flesh, which effectively reduces the wearer's hp to 35 against anyone who can identify it (suggest some sort of saving throw even if he wears it for over a day).

Other than that, solid stuff. These are consistently interesting and creative and I hope to see more projects like this.

Elricaltovilla

2015-07-25, 10:51 PM

Man it's good to be writing for DSP. I hadn't had the chance to work with anyone else on this project aside from Jade yet, but it's been a ball so far. I never knew that Jake and I had such similar senses of humor, some of that even got snuck past Jade and into the Doc! We're still going to be adding new stuff to it so keep your eyes peeled here and elswhere for updates.

Vhaidara

2015-07-25, 11:11 PM

You know, i was kind of hoping for a book dedicated to warforged. Oh well, items are pretty cool too.

Yeah, this is awesome. Helm of Lost Flesh, Rings of Bound Loyalty, and Chess Pieces will see use in my game.

And I notice you use Elric's Elder Evil in this. Very nice.

Powerdork

2015-07-25, 11:26 PM

The wording on the destruction of the liar's quill is ambiguous. Is it a year (without [speaking or making written communications] with the quill)? A year ([without speaking], [making written communications with only the quill])? Some other alternative that I'm finding hard to word? (Also: divinIation.)

Extra Anchovies

2015-07-25, 11:35 PM

Can we have Vest of Resistance? It hasn't been ported to Pathfinder yet and I like having options for my shoulders slot other than the standard CoR.

I love how Legendary Items are implemented.

I saw that Knowledge (tactics) in the Chessboard of the Astral Army description just before it got fixed. Too slow :smalltongue:

Bearded (Weapon)

No. You didn't.

While wielding a bearded weapon, you sprout a thick metallic beard that protects you from harm.

Oh my gosh you did.

The Mountain Village, Altovilla

i c wat u did thar

Archetypes

Ooh, neat! I'm not super interested in items, but I'll be keeping an eye on this section.

Does the Ectoplasmic Manufacturer have access to any customizations? They lose access to the astral suit, so currently they don't. It also feels really similar to (and worse than) Ectopic Artisan, to the point that I don't see why EM needs to exist

Axiomite looks really fun, and takes the Daevic in a very interesting direction. I think I'd actually prefer one of these over a stock Daevic. It's cool that they can pick between support and self-buffs at 6th level.

Forgelord looks pretty good. I mean, it's a class that inherently breaks WBL (especially with Disposable and Spell item attunements), but it doesn't look like it would do so too egregiously.

PsyBomb

2015-07-25, 11:36 PM

Eox

2015-07-25, 11:40 PM

Oh this is right up my alley. Only one issue from my once-over, Alchemists Ice more or less already exists (http://www.archivesofnethys.com/EquipmentMiscDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Liquid%20ice).

leonfenrir

2015-07-25, 11:45 PM

Can we have Vest of Resistance? It hasn't been ported to Pathfinder yet and I like having options for my shoulders slot other than the standard CoR.

This has already happened and been added to the doc. Mostly. Blame Jade.

Lord_Gareth

2015-07-25, 11:49 PM

Wording in some places - especially weapon properties - is currently very rough. Suggestions to fix it up are highly appreciated.

Extra Anchovies

2015-07-26, 12:31 AM

This has already happened and been added to the doc. Mostly. Blame Jade.

Oooh, and it's a corset too! Neat. More interesting than just a shirt or a vest.

Powerdork

2015-07-26, 12:51 AM

Wording in some places - especially weapon properties - is currently very rough. Suggestions to fix it up are highly appreciated.

You've already seen this, Gareth, but my suggested alterations to Spell Echoing in particular, for reference: https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/AIpqmGjN/

Also:
> find/replace "strong enchantment"/"faint enchantment"/"moderate enchantment" (whatever terminology for the spells that influence minds and hearts) with "strong/faint/moderate/whatever bananas"
> find/replace "enchantment" with "enhancement" (fun fact: one of my buds didn't know magic weapons don't have enchantment bonuses for 14 years)
> find/replace "strong/faint/moderate bananas" with "strong/faint/moderate enchantment"

Mithril Leaf

2015-07-26, 12:51 AM

I love you fine folk. Magic items are the lifeblood of my builds (levels form the organs). My only hope so far is that the unlike certain other books in the *Forge series, over 75% of the contents will not be elf exclusive.

AmberVael

2015-07-26, 12:52 AM

In the team chat, a few weeks back, Anthony jokingly proposed that we just write an entire item book and stick 'em in there.

Introducing Steelforge!

It amuses me that so many things start off as a joke, then get serious when people really consider it and go "hey wait a minute that sounds pretty good actually." Its a tendency I definitely approve of.

Mithril Leaf

2015-07-26, 01:18 AM

Warsong Instruments are just about the coolest Bard item I have ever seen. This is including the plethora of excellent 3.5 Bard items. A few things about it though:
Can you hold something in your actual hands while using it to attack (assuming you don't try to attack with the thing you're holding of course)?
Do ranged weapons have unlimited ammo?
Is the +50% cost modifier additive or multiplicative? For napkin math sake, say I want to use 3 +10 weapons, is the cost (around) 420k or 475k?
Do you need a free hand to play it?
Also I suppose I should also ask if you can use it with Haste and such.

EDIT: Also can you cast Magic Weapon on it?

unseenmage

2015-07-26, 01:44 AM

This... looks fantastic.
Here's hoping we see even more items that interact with Constructs. Hopefully more for the burgeoning golem master than the golem hunter. :smallsmile:

The Smuggler's Chest as written could be construed that it negates the weight of characters standing in it when it's open. Heck as written on might even be able to cart off masonry so long as the weight rested in the box.

Sayt

2015-07-26, 02:00 AM

Helm of Lost flesh is very, very cool and I really want one on a lot of characters.

Steelwalker's boots is gonna be a must-have for a lot of classes.

Magecatcher's net and improved are both very cool.

Refinement Charm's don't seem to have a cost?

Bearded weapon is a little..... You hold a sword, so you get an iron brush on your face? That said, Dwarves getting an extra two enhancement is something I'm always a fan of Dwarves getting stuff.

Does Brave weapon double all flat damage+weapon dice, or just weapon dice? Do mounted chargers need another multiplier?

Jolting et. al seem like straight upgrades in terms of relevance to Flaming/shocking. You don't get them as long, but you probably get them long enough.

If the weapon is later enchanted as a shock weapon, this enchantment is replaced and the price of the jolting enchantment reduced by 400 GP. Do you mean the cost of the shocking enchantment is reduced by 400gp?

I'm not sure what Spiritbound weapon/armour does. So it's +1-3, and you can thus add 2-6 essence in the weapon as appropriate, and it has an enhancement bonus equal to invested essence, so your +0 Spiritbound (1) weapon can have two essence invested and it becomes a +2 weapon?

Nyaa

2015-07-26, 02:52 AM

Wow, another DSP book!

Girdle of Protection and Co.: I don't really get the need to print these. They can be stacked onto another item in their native slot for the same x1.5 price.
Non-Secrecy Amulet: no Will save, no ML check, no nothing?
Ironbody Cloak: looks like a contender for Big Six until you realize fast healing and even wands of CLW makes it almost worthless unless all you fight are CR+3 boss encounters. Not that there's something wrong with the item itself.
Chess Pieces of the Astral Army: IMO should be repriced into 1/day items. I have no idea who can afford single use versions.
Power Charm of Readiness: I bet whoever wrote this forgot about Grasp of Darkness (PoWEx) feat.
Power Charm of the Unyeilding: does adamantine DR/- stack with astral suit DR/-?
Power Charm of Versatility: Bane mind blades.
Refinement Charm: doesn't have price listed, only cost to create.
Grand Vizier’s Advice: does it grant +1.5 to aid another per point of essence?
Exploding (Weapon): I suppose Goblin bonus only affects this enhancement, not attack and damage rolls?
Morphing (Weapon): I fail to see how it's worth +3 bonus, and even +1 bonus it's worth in MiC.
Other Item Enhancements needs enhancement and price table.
The Font of Power: IMO prepared casters' benefit should be changed to two pearls of power of that level to prevent even more schrodingering.
Aegis Archetype: Ectoplasmic Manufacturer: is there a general rule that psi-like abilities are automatically augmented up to manifester level?
Disposable, Greater: probably should be highest mental stat modifier? Not that I have anything against Muscle Artificers.

Extra Anchovies

2015-07-26, 03:04 AM

Non-Secrecy Amulet: no Will save, no ML check, no nothing?

Way too strong for its cost. Suggested balancing factor: those being listened in on know that they are being listened in on after each intercepted message is received by its intended recipient, but they do not know who is listening in or where the eavesdropper is.

Power Charm of Readiness: I bet whoever wrote this forgot about Grasp of Darkness (PoWEx) feat.

Yeah, that one is super-duper powerful for, well, every initiator, and I don't see how it can be balanced. I propose that it be removed, and initiators get something else instead.

Power Charm of Versatility: Bane mind blades.

You still need to select a type, though, because Bane isn't a weapon property, but [creature type] Bane is. Sure, you can change it up every day, but not everyone can spare 8 hours in addition to the normal time required for rest.

Sayt

2015-07-26, 04:22 AM

Oh, one more question: Does the DOOM TIMER on helm of lost flesh count total cumulative time in the helmet, or just the most recent duration? Cause the latter is more reasonable, but the former is very, very cool and has a creeping damnation theme going on.

Milo v3

2015-07-26, 04:35 AM

Uh, is there anyway to get your head back from a Headless Helm without regeneration magic?

tekevil

2015-07-26, 06:35 AM

Wow, another DSP book!

Girdle of Protection and Co.: I don't really get the need to print these. They can be stacked onto another item in their native slot for the same x1.5 price.
.

Those rules are 100% optional and many DMs are more likely not to use them. At least they're more likely to use these items.

Also Warsong weapon treating Ranks of perform as BAB, too strong even for 10k gold.

Elricaltovilla

2015-07-26, 08:01 AM

Those rules are 100% optional and many DMs are more likely not to use them. At least they're more likely to use these items.

Also Warsong weapon treating Ranks of perform as BAB, too strong even for 10k gold.

What price point would you consider fair then for an item intended to be used by someone for the majority of their adventuring career?

It's beyond most character's ability to afford until around 7th level, and most likely won't be a reasonable buy until 8th or 9th, meaning that it's off the table until around halfway of your adventuring career if you go 1-20 or 3/4ths if you're going 1-12 like in PFS (which this will never see play in, but is potentially a good comparison point). You could get it at 5th level, but you'd be spending 95% of your WBL on it, something I don't think anyone is going to do.

Eox

2015-07-26, 08:33 AM

Any chance of an archetype/feat series that makes Alchemical items useful into mid-high levels? The tiny DCs pigeonhole you into stuff like tanglefoot bags later on if you want to use alchemical items. Maybe a feat that increases the DC of alchemical items you craft?

I'd say make it equal to the result of the check or your craft bonus but Alchemists would go straight to town with that.

Elricaltovilla

2015-07-26, 08:39 AM

Ilorin Lorati

2015-07-26, 09:37 AM

That's the kinda thing that should really have been a skill unlock. Alas, Paizo. Note that I don't actually blame them for this one. It probably just didn't occur to them.

Elricaltovilla

2015-07-26, 10:09 AM

Added a few more items to the playtest document. I'll probably be doing this throughout the day.

EDIT: The items, In no particular order: Toxin Drinking Needle, Angel Wing Cloak, and Firesight Eyes.

Extra Anchovies

2015-07-26, 10:42 AM

Toxin Drinking Needle

I like the idea behind this one.

What's the reasoning on that price tag? Command-Word Neutralize Poison is 27K GP. Even if you aren't following Paizo's standard rules for determining the cost of an item, it's not the best idea to make items that are straight-up better (e.g. lower cost for the same effect) than those already available from first-party sources.

Angel Wing Cloak

This item is pretty metal. I'd wear it.

Firesight Eyes

I like the name.

This item is really good. Definitely a top contender for the Eyes slot IMO, up there with Fogcutting Lenses.

Also, as currently written everyone within 60 feet gains the benefits and drawbacks of the lenses, i.e. everyone is outlined and everyone can see the outlines. This doesn't feel intentional, though. Since it's a pair of goggles and not, say, a Lantern of Faerie Fire, the outlines should probably only be visible to the wearer.

Elricaltovilla

2015-07-26, 10:51 AM

I like the idea behind this one.

What's the reasoning on that price tag? Command-Word Neutralize Poison is 27K GP. Even if you aren't following Paizo's standard rules for determining the cost of an item, it's not the best idea to make items that are straight-up better (e.g. lower cost for the same effect) than those already available from first-party sources.

I got 30K when I did the math on it and I think that price is too high, so I lowered it.

This item is pretty metal. I'd wear it.

Cool. I plan on making a few more "items made from dead monsters" stuff.

I like the name.

This item is really good. Definitely a top contender for the Eyes slot IMO, up there with Fogcutting Lenses.

Also, as currently written everyone within 60 feet gains the benefits and drawbacks of the lenses, i.e. everyone is outlined and everyone can see the outlines. This doesn't feel intentional, though. Since it's a pair of goggles and not, say, a Lantern of Faerie Fire, the outlines should probably only be visible to the wearer.

Can you tell me where in the wording you think it says that? Only the wearer should be gaining the effect. EDIT: Nevermind, I fixed it.

Extra Anchovies

2015-07-26, 11:08 AM

I got 30K when I did the math on it and I think that price is too high, so I lowered it.

It's at-will standard-action neutralize poison that can only affect creatures. I think somewhere closer to 18K or 20K GP would be a fair price for it.

Elricaltovilla

2015-07-26, 11:16 AM

It's at-will standard-action neutralize poison that can only affect creatures. I think somewhere closer to 18K or 20K GP would be a fair price for it.

It does cost an addition 15 GP per use because you need the vials.

I'm looking at it more along the lines of when I think it should be a reasonable purchase for someone. At 7th level it's about 50% of WBL which is way too high for something that can be beaten out by a cheaper wand. 9th level it drops to 25% WBL which is much more reasonable, but honestly I don't see it being justifiable to spend that much on the item unless you're living in a jungle full of poisonous creatures. It's not until 12th level where it becomes 10% WBL, which is about (proportionally) I'd expect people to spend on something like this. But I'm not opposed to bumping up the price if it really proves to be an issue.

Extra Anchovies

2015-07-26, 11:45 AM

It does cost an addition 15 GP per use because you need the vials.

I'm looking at it more along the lines of when I think it should be a reasonable purchase for someone. At 7th level it's about 50% of WBL which is way too high for something that can be beaten out by a cheaper wand. 9th level it drops to 25% WBL which is much more reasonable, but honestly I don't see it being justifiable to spend that much on the item unless you're living in a jungle full of poisonous creatures. It's not until 12th level where it becomes 10% WBL, which is about (proportionally) I'd expect people to spend on something like this. But I'm not opposed to bumping up the price if it really proves to be an issue.

Hm. That is a fair point. It isn't exactly a high-priority item like a cloak of resistance is.

It certainly won't break games if PCs shell out for it earlier on, so the pricing is probably fine.

Question about the vials: can you make your own vials if you run out and can't find a seller?

Prime32

2015-07-26, 11:54 AM

Power Charm of Versatility should have the special ability chosen on creation.

What happens if you wield a weapon in one hand and play a Warsong Instrument (enchanted to summon two weapons) with the other? Do you get to triple-wield?

Niagara Falls. The Pyramids of Giza. The Tomb of the Unknown Soldier. Anyone who has been to a great and powerful place can attest to the sheer presence of the location.
Two of those places are American, and two of them are tombs. Needs more variety! :smalltongue:

Items I'd like to see:
An alchemical/nonmagical item that quivers in the presence of magic auras, letting you dowse for them with Survival checks.
An "alternate form" for a weapon - can have a different base shape/material (e.g. silver longsword -> cold iron shortbow) and costs 75% the normal amount to enchant, but cannot exceed the enhancement bonus of the default form.

Elricaltovilla

2015-07-26, 11:57 AM

Hm. That is a fair point. It isn't exactly a high-priority item like a cloak of resistance is.

It certainly won't break games if PCs shell out for it earlier on, so the pricing is probably fine.

Question about the vials: can you make your own vials if you run out and can't find a seller?

Yes you can craft more vials yourself. I'm trying to decide if the vials need to be a separate item or not.

tekevil

2015-07-26, 12:12 PM

What price point would you consider fair then for an item intended to be used by someone for the majority of their adventuring career?

It's beyond most character's ability to afford until around 7th level, and most likely won't be a reasonable buy until 8th or 9th, meaning that it's off the table until around halfway of your adventuring career if you go 1-20 or 3/4ths if you're going 1-12 like in PFS (which this will never see play in, but is potentially a good comparison point). You could get it at 5th level, but you'd be spending 95% of your WBL on it, something I don't think anyone is going to do.

At no price point do I think it's fair. An item that gives full BAB to a character is too good. Almost every d8 hit die class is going to want one because it's the best DPR increasing item they have access to.

Magus wont because I doubt it will have compatability with Spellstrike.

The idea is cool though, but an alternative to giving full BAB should be considered.

Mehangel

2015-07-26, 12:23 PM

Chesspieces of the Astral Army:

Can there be a special note that the chess pieces could alternatively be placed on an active tacticians chessboard and have the astral construct be created in the respective square?

Extra Anchovies

2015-07-26, 12:34 PM

At no price point do I think it's fair. An item that gives full BAB to a character is too good. Almost every d8 hit die class is going to want one because it's the best DPR increasing item they have access to.

Magus wont because I doubt it will have compatability with Spellstrike.

The idea is cool though, but an alternative to giving full BAB should be considered.

I definitely agree. Full base attack bonus is not something that should be provided through an item.

Also, it would work with spellstrike if you had a one-handed instrument, e.g. castanents. Or a drum tied to your belt.

137beth

2015-07-26, 12:36 PM

Lord_Gareth

2015-07-26, 12:37 PM

At no price point do I think it's fair. An item that gives full BAB to a character is too good. Almost every d8 hit die class is going to want one because it's the best DPR increasing item they have access to.

Magus wont because I doubt it will have compatability with Spellstrike.

The idea is cool though, but an alternative to giving full BAB should be considered.

You absolutely sure about that? Every single D8 class is going to want to get a weapon that comes with a straight skill tax, requires a standard action to summon, and can only remain out and ready if you're willing to keep Performing? I doubt it's that bad, Tek.

Lord_Gareth

2015-07-26, 12:39 PM

Power Charm of Versatility should have the special ability chosen on creation.

What happens if you wield a weapon in one hand and play a Warsong Instrument (enchanted to summon two weapons) with the other? Do you get to triple-wield?

I'll clarify this, but essentially you either need sufficient free hands (or hands occupied entirely by the Warsong instrument in question) sufficient to use the summoned weapons; in your example, you have 1 "free" hand, so you can't summon two weapons.

Elricaltovilla

2015-07-26, 12:39 PM

Yes, I like magic items!

No, I don't like magic items that just give flat number boosts:(
But I like the trapped items:)

Welcome to the team, Psybomb.

More feedback is coming soon to an internet near you!

Well not all of our items are just straight number boosts. A lot of those are effects that already existed, but we moved to less used slots in order to free you up for more fun things.

Extra Anchovies

2015-07-26, 12:53 PM

Every single D8 class is going to want to get a weapon that comes with a straight skill tax

Consider this: if a class could reduce the number of skill points it gets per level by 1, and get full BAB in exchange, how many classes wouldn't take that option?

Also this item is just full BAB with no tradeoffs (except the wealth expenditure) for bards, since they want Perform anyways to fuel Versatile Performance.

requires a standard action to summon, and can only remain out and ready if you're willing to keep Performing?

So? Summon it at the start of the day, give the drum on your belt a light tap every round. You're performing. If you need two hands for something, just summon it again when you're done. Not often that you need to climb rock faces or go swimming in the middle of a fight anyways. And if you don't need to be quiet you can keep both hands free at all times with one of these (http://cdn2.bigcommerce.com/server2100/6vg41/product_images/uploaded_images/harmonica-holder-hh01-400pix.jpg). Sure, it's a little weird (like a Witch keeping Fortune up all day by cackling non-stop), but there's nothing preventing it.

PsyBomb

2015-07-26, 01:20 PM

Aliek

2015-07-26, 01:44 PM

Perhaps it could be tied to bardic music instead? On phone and afb so i couldnt doublecheck, but I believe having a bard gain his inspire courage bonus to his Bab or, if thats still too much, his attack bonus from IC can add to Bab for the purposes of iteratives. But then optimized IC builds would be that much better off.

Maybe limit the bonus to a flat cost added to the instrument? +1 for pretty cheap all the way to +5 for an item you'd expect at lv14-17.

Just throwing some ideas, my balancing sense for d&d is kinda skewed, especially for PF.

Lord_Gareth

2015-07-26, 01:45 PM

Consider this: if a class could reduce the number of skill points it gets per level by 1, and get full BAB in exchange, how many classes wouldn't take that option?

Also this item is just full BAB with no tradeoffs (except the wealth expenditure) for bards, since they want Perform anyways to fuel Versatile Performance.

Plenty. A lot of them don't need it; the wealth could be spent much more efficiently. Bard likes it (obvs), Skald likes it, Rogue might invest, but I'm not seeing a lot of other classes with a reason to snag it. That said, we're looking at removing THF as an option from it and cleaning up the handedness wording.

Mehangel

2015-07-26, 01:49 PM

Not familiar with this ability. Link or explanation?

Tactician's Chessboard, Universal Item (Ultimate Psionics pg 425)

Tactician’s Chessboard
Aura moderate telepathy; ML 5th
Slot -; Price 8,000 gp; Weight 10 lbs.
Description
This finely-crafted crystal chessboard only functions when held by a creature with the collective class feature. When held, it shows the precise relative location of all collective members within 100’ and all enemies of which they are aware. The wielder can select a member of the collective and concentrate as a move action to see through that target’s eyes, gaining any of the target’s enhanced visual sensory abilities such as darkvision or low-light vision and using the target’s Perception checks. Anyone holding the wielder’s hands while using this ability similarly can see through the eyes of the target. If the members of the collective can communicate via telepathy, the wielder can attempt to use Aid Another to assist the target. These effects are active as long as the wielder maintains concentration as a move action.
A vitalist that is able to use Steal Health as a range attack may make such attacks from the selected member’s square instead of from his own; this provokes attacks of opportunity from enemies adjacent to the vitalist himself, not the selected square.
A tactician that holds the chessboard treats his Charisma score as being two points higher when determining how long his strategies last.
Construction Requirements Craft Wondrous Item, sense link; Cost 4,000 gp

tekevil

2015-07-26, 01:52 PM

Even if it was limited to just Bards and Skalds, giving them full BAB is wholey uneccessary. They're already one of the best classes with the most versatility, decent damage potential, and great group enhancment.

I really don't understand what made you decide "huh, you know what MVP #based Bard needs? To have full BAB." It's greedy more than its cool.

PsyBomb

2015-07-26, 02:05 PM

Tactician's Chessboard, Universal Item (Ultimate Psionics pg 425)

While cool, that's a really niche interaction to double the summoning range. One of those things I'd probably houserule into a game I ran, but not sure if it's worth including in the Chesspiece item. Any other thoughts here?

Even if it was limited to just Bards and Skalds, giving them full BAB is wholey uneccessary. They're already one of the best classes with the most versatility, decent damage potential, and great group enhancment.

I really don't understand what made you decide "huh, you know what MVP #based Bard needs? To have full BAB." It's greedy more than its cool.

In response to this, I'll point out two other classes in the same tier as the Bard, both also from DSP. namely, the Vizier and Guru, who have access to Veils which replicate the BAB replacement (Hand Cannons, Loyal Paladin's Spear of Light, and Horns of the Minotaur). These are far from game-breaking, and are arguably significantly stronger than Warsong (Cannons self-enhance and have excellent base damage, Spear of Light gets massive reach, etc).

The intent of Warsong Instruments was originally to allow Bards to still be combat-useful as something other than buffbots while playing, say, Stringed instruments for their performance. The imagery was so cool we expanded it to be usable by anyone who us good with the instrument.

tekevil

2015-07-26, 02:09 PM

Can't that be accomplished at base BAB though?

Why does it require full BAB?

Also to use akasha like that is a false equivalence. Akashic classes were balanced around using veils like that while the Bard and Skald were not balanced using full BAB in mind.

Tuvarkz

2015-07-26, 02:14 PM

The Helm of Lost Flesh is going to be pretty good for high-level Dex Warlords, particularly considering they could easily boost their Sense Motive checks ceiling-high and Sanguine Perseverance the check.
Not entirely sure about the potential combat use for the Gravity Slime, but it's sure going to be a fun background item at a relatively low prize at the higher levels.

Elricaltovilla

2015-07-26, 02:17 PM

Not entirely sure about the potential combat use for the Gravity Slime, but it's sure going to be a fun background item at a relatively low prize at the higher levels.

Top selling team mascot item of all time :smalltongue:

khadgar567

2015-07-26, 02:29 PM

Abithrios

2015-07-26, 02:49 PM

Chapter 14: Worldbuilding and DM Tools

What is this "DM"‽

Elricaltovilla

2015-07-26, 02:51 PM

can we use twinned curves short swords as kanshou and bakuya?
what I mean is throw one then next turn it returns back to its twin.
also can we make both into folding coin ( is it one coin for both of them or two separate coins for each one?

Uh.... no? The twinned enchantment states what it does. It basically lets you apply an enchantment from one weapon onto the other weapon. Nothing more, nothing less.

PsyBomb

2015-07-26, 02:57 PM

What is this "DM"‽

Good use of interrobang, there. And fixed.

Mehangel

2015-07-26, 03:07 PM

I noticed that there are several classes that don't have anything to benefit from refinement charms.

I was also curious about whether a soulknife could have 2 Power Charms of Versatility on a bracelet/necklace. If they can are they able to add 2 weapon specials to their list of potential enhancements, or if they can only benefit from 1. The reason why I ask, is it specifically states that the power charms do not stack, but I dont know if this would be considered stacking.

meemaas

2015-07-26, 03:46 PM

Loving what I'm seeing so far. You've got a future buyer in me.

Had a complaint but typing it out made me figure out what it was.

Tuvarkz

2015-07-26, 05:29 PM

can we use twinned curves short swords as kanshou and bakuya?
what I mean is throw one then next turn it returns back to its twin.
also can we make both into folding coin ( is it one coin for both of them or two separate coins for each one?

Spheres of Power should fit what you are attempting to do much better, rather than martial maneuvers.

MilleniaAntares

2015-07-26, 06:22 PM

Ectoplasmic Manufacturer: Construct Army implies that the EM can only make one Astral Construct at one time, but the text for Astral Construct (the power and class-feature) does not specify that restriction.

Jurai

2015-07-26, 07:07 PM

A complete set of Chess Pieces of the Astral Army is worth 67,500 GP.

leonfenrir

2015-07-26, 08:25 PM

You've already seen this, Gareth, but my suggested alterations to Spell Echoing in particular, for reference: https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/AIpqmGjN/

Thanks! A lot of this has been incorporated

Powerdork

2015-07-26, 08:37 PM

Thanks! A lot of this has been incorporated

Not enough, I feel. Had you just pasted it in there, and stripped out the square brackets (and perhaps inserted a clause about how you can only imbue it with one spell), I'd agree. However, as it stands, it's missing one of the parentheses, as if someone had typed it out manually, without awareness of the context it's in.

leonfenrir

2015-07-26, 08:58 PM

Not enough, I feel. Had you just pasted it in there, and stripped out the square brackets (and perhaps inserted a clause about how you can only imbue it with one spell), I'd agree. However, as it stands, it's missing one of the parentheses, as if someone had typed it out manually, without awareness of the context it's in.

That's my fault for editing while eating breakfast. I'm fairly happy with the wording now, but I'll revisit it in 24 hours when I've got some distance from it. Thanks again!

Elricaltovilla

2015-07-27, 08:33 AM

I've bumped up the price on Firesight Eyes to 45K. Hopefully not too high to make them undesirable but a better price point for what they do.

Ninjaxenomorph

2015-07-27, 10:52 AM

I looked through the nonmagical equipment, and most of it looks good (lead paint in particular, though the manabane gel looks really fun). The silvershine bomb could be changed up I think, since bombs that are lit function a little bit differently to splash weapons, but otherwise I like the idea (though the damage is a bit wonky), interesting counterpart to silvercloud oil from Blood of the Moon. Alchemists frost and poisoner's sheath, however, already have published items that cover their niche: liquid ice for the former (though it lacks the utility you presented and the extra damage) and the poisoning sheath (has a time limit, can poison the wearer if not trained in usual poison use, and holds one dose, but is much cheaper and does it automatically as opposed to spending an action). In addition, all the alchemical items need a craft DC.

Elricaltovilla

2015-07-27, 11:55 AM

Ninjaxenomorph

2015-07-27, 12:28 PM

Hate to be the bearer of bad news, then. Anyway, I really like the idea of the power charms and refinement charms. For refinement charms in particular, each one stacks with itself, correct? For some of the options, it seems a bit off. For example, a sneak attack user could, for a total investment of 7,000, up his sneak attack by 10 levels. Something that increases sneak attack sounds more like a power charm. I do really like the ideas, though, and have some suggestions for other classes:

Charm of Mercy: Add 1 point to the amount of damage healed by your Lay On Hands
Charm of Arcane Energy: Add 1 point to your arcane pool/arcane resevoir
Charm of Mutation: Add 10 minutes to the duration of your mutagen
Charm of Inner Self: Add 1 point to your ki pool

Alternatively, some idea for power charms:

Power Charm of Enhancement: Once per day when enhancing a weapon, armor, or shield through class abilities (such as Divine Bond, Arcane Pool, or Sacred Armor), you may grant the item an additional +1 bonus.
Power Charm of Steeds: Once per day, you may have a creature you are riding avoid an attack as if using the Mounted Combat feat (though no roll is required).

Elricaltovilla

2015-07-27, 12:34 PM

Better to find out sooner rather than later. Unless I'm (yet again) mistaken, there's still room in the alchemical items for the grease effect of alchemist's frost right? That could at least be salvaged.

Ninjaxenomorph

2015-07-27, 12:44 PM

While there is an item that aids with escaping grapples (alchemical grease), I don't believe there are any that replicate the normal usage of the spell. You might want to emphasize that the effect is nonmagical, though, and just have a DC and length rather than a caster level. And we all know the reason that the grease spell isn't flammable is because its magical, right? :smallamused:

Elricaltovilla

2015-07-27, 01:08 PM

Extra Anchovies

2015-07-27, 02:59 PM

I've bumped up the price on Firesight Eyes to 45K. Hopefully not too high to make them undesirable but a better price point for what they do.

Weren't they 5K before? Adding 40K GP to an item's price is pretty huge.

It's also now expensive enough to be mostly useless, since it's not a priority item.

It's basically an item of continuous Widened Sculpted (http://www.realmshelps.net/charbuild/feat/Sculpt_Spell) (ball form) Faerie Fire centered on the wearer. I'll eyeball the 20-foot range difference as equal to the fact that it functions only for you, so neither of those will affect the price.

Maybe somewhere between 20K and 30K GP? Heck, even 15K GP wouldn't be too strong, since Fogcutting Lenses are 8K.

Elricaltovilla

2015-07-27, 03:05 PM

Weren't they 5K before? Adding 40K GP to an item's price is pretty huge.

It's also now expensive enough to be mostly useless, since it's not a priority item.

It's basically an item of continuous Widened Sculpted (http://www.realmshelps.net/charbuild/feat/Sculpt_Spell) (ball form) Faerie Fire centered on the wearer. I'll eyeball the 20-foot range difference as equal to the fact that it functions only for you, so neither of those will affect the price.

Maybe somewhere between 20K and 30K GP? Heck, even 15K GP wouldn't be too strong, since Fogcutting Lenses are 8K.

I ballparked it as being a continuous effect of a 5th level equivalent spell (theoretical "mass faerie fire" to be exact) which put it at 90K. For comparison, goggles of true seeing (which affect largely the same area and same things) are 184K. 45K is half the calculated price and ~25% of the cost of goggles of true seeing. Pricey, but definitely not as bad as they could be, or anywhere near as costly as the next step up in effect.

Mithril Leaf

2015-07-27, 03:14 PM

Maybe we could have a Charm of +1 level of for Inspire Courage or Inspire Rage? You'd have to spend all of your charm slots for it really. Or a Power Charm of straight +1 maybe.

Powerdork

2015-07-27, 07:56 PM

MilleniaAntares

2015-07-27, 08:13 PM

Well that's a bit disappointing. I'll have to pull those then. :smallfrown:
You could make a Poisoning Sheath that allows unlimited uses of a limited list of poisons.

Ninjaxenomorph

2015-07-27, 08:31 PM

Maybe something like the Bountiful Bottle, but for poisons?

Kaidinah

2015-07-27, 11:05 PM

My slime!

That is all for now. I will have time to actually look at the book after my final tomorrow.

Nyaa

2015-07-29, 03:20 AM

Forgelord - "Class Features" ability (that is not listed in the table): does it work like Evangelist (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/e-h/evangelist#TOC-Aligned-Class-Ex-)? I get everything that's not BAB, HP, saves and skills of a base class, and PRC abilities on top of it?
If Forgelord is taken from level 5 to 10, he won't have gold to create minor artifact until level 12-13, assuming he doesn't buy anything else from level 10 on.
Power Charm of the Unyielding: does adamantine DR/- stack with astral suit DR/-? Does it work with astral skin or aberrant? As they don't count as light, medium or heavy armor I guess not.

PsyBomb

2015-07-29, 11:00 AM

"Make a melee touch attack. If it hits, the emet tablet adheres to the target and the affected construct is stunned for 2 rounds, ignoring any immunities it possesses (including those from sources other than its types or subtypes). The tablet crumbles to dust after the effect ends."

Suggest revising to "The owner may use the emet tablet by performing a melee touch attack with it against the construct of their choice. If it hits, the tablet adheres to the target and the affected construct is stunned for 2 rounds. Immunities of any sort do not protect the construct from this effect. The tablet crumbles to dust after the effect ends."

I'll take a look at this, and will likely use your wording. When you pointed it out, I can see a couple of the gray areas the way I have it right now that can stand clarification.

Forgelord - "Class Features" ability (that is not listed in the table): does it work like Evangelist (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/e-h/evangelist#TOC-Aligned-Class-Ex-)? I get everything that's not BAB, HP, saves and skills of a base class, and PRC abilities on top of it?
If Forgelord is taken from level 5 to 10, he won't have gold to create minor artifact until level 12-13, assuming he doesn't buy anything else from level 10 on.
Power Charm of the Unyielding: does adamantine DR/- stack with astral suit DR/-? Does it work with astral skin or aberrant? As they don't count as light, medium or heavy armor I guess not.

Yes, it works just like the Evangelist. The big reason PrCs aren't used too often in PF is that the core classes tend to all have interesting stuff that you want to see through to the end. This means any PrC has to be designed in one of four ways in order to be a decent choice:

1) Overpowered to the point of being worth dumping those last options (see: 3.5's Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil)
2) Entered ideally via a class or multiclass that already doesn't have those late-game goodies (most Theurges)
3) Radically different, so that it's the only way to really do what you are proposing (Ideal, but VERY hard to do)
4) Designed so that it doesn't interfere much with those late-game abilities (the Evangelist solution)

The Forgelord is designed in that fourth way, so that you still get many of your late abilities plus some extra goodies on the side.

On the gold thing, that is also very much by intent. The best Minor Artifacts start becoming fair around that time, with the worst offenders being a bit over the top until level 15. The ones that aren't so great probably won't be chosen (or will only be chosen for flavor reasons, the actual "capstone" is intended to be Greater Attunement).

I... need to look at the interaction between Aegis abilities and Adamantine. Will get back to you on that, and it might warrant a rephrasing of the Power Charm. You are correct about the Skin and Aberrant forms, though, they would not give DR since they do not count as Light, Medium, or Heavy armor.

Nyaa

2015-07-29, 12:25 PM

PsyBomb

2015-07-29, 12:39 PM

Thank you for game design insights.

Can Forgelord attune to one item more than once if it has multiple properties, like amulet of natural armor and mighty fists?

I assume Class Features doesn't allow to take FCB of that class on Forgelord levels? For Aegis build I'm working on, it turns lesser armor attunement from awesome 5 DR increase to much more modest 2 DR, 1 DR lost from two levels not covered with Class Features and 2 DR lost from five non-aegis levels of not taking +1/4 DR FCB.

Does greater armor attunement negate armor check penalty and maximum dex bonus? Encumbrance by wearing medium or heavy armor? I guess negating armor weight itself for not being encumbered by it is stepping into IHS territory.

Not a problem on game design stuff. I'm relatively new to it myself, so talking through it gets my own gears going (and, in this case, helped refine something on a second PrC I'm trying to put together for this project)

On to the questions:
1) You have to attune to three different items... but I will note that more than one can be from the same category. They're all written to stack. In your example, you couldn't attune to that item twice, but if the character was wearing a Ring of Protection, they could Armor Attune to both.
2) Sorry, but no to the FCB thing. you just get features, not the actual class level of the prior class
3) Answer is actually a yes to most of Greater Attunement. You're still carrying the stuff, so your Strength 5 Wizard/Forgelord will still buckle under the weight of adamantine full plate, but while wearing it the suit does not slow you down, have an Armor Check Penalty , give spell failure, or negate class features. A theoretical Monk/Forgelord could wear the above adamantine full plate and still keep their flurry/AC bonus/speed/etc. The Wizard/Forgelord could wear it and not have to worry about spell failure or armor check, but that would also mean that they aren't Greater Attuning to things like staves (which they would more likely want).

Hope this helps. All of these answers are as I intended the class when I wrote it, so if wording needs to be polished then that's why we have Beta tests.

Nyaa

2015-07-29, 01:25 PM

They're all written to stack. In your example, you couldn't attune to that item twice, but if the character was wearing a Ring of Protection, they could Armor Attune to both.
<...>
Hope this helps. All of these answers are as I intended the class when I wrote it, so if wording needs to be polished then that's why we have Beta tests.

Guess I'm too used to Pathfinder's "you can only have this once!" or I failed Perception check hard.

That, however, means that full turtle duergar Aegis 15 / Forgelord 5 gets: 7 class levels, 3 FCB, 4 customizations, 10 lesser armor attunement, 3 power charm, for a total of DR 27/-. Not sure if it's going to be problematic in Third Dawn where everyone and their grandmother is running around with DR-ignoring maneuvers.

What IL boost for Initiator's Soul customization would five levels of Forgelord grant? "Your Aegis levels count as full initiator levels (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tbBIinA90VQW8eriM0TZTZCbHsSU6cdv7_44J8w564s/edit?pli=1)". I see two options: 2.5 IL per normal IL stacking rules, or 4 IL, 3 for Class Features class feature and 2*0.5 for levels that don't have it.

Can Aegis and Soulknife attune to their astral suit and mind blade? Technically they don't craft respective items, but it sounds like a very natural thing.

Azoth

2015-07-30, 05:39 AM

Some suggestions for cool/useful alchemical/mundane items. I suck at pricing things so leave that to the pros.

Troll Blood Serum- gives the target Fast Healing 1 for X rounds, but requires a Fort save or be nauseated for the duration of the Fast Healing. (Good out of combat healing item and allows low magic/caster groups to heal without long pauses in game play. Basically an alchemical Infernal Healing potion with a drawback.)

Paint Bomb- This object can be primed and thrown with a 10ft range increment. When it lands it explodes in a 5ft burst covering creatures in a thin coat of brightly colored paint instantly revealing the outline of creatures in the area. Creatures outlined by the paint bomb take a –20 penalty on all Stealth checks. Outlined creatures do not benefit from the concealment normally provided by blur, displacement, invisibility, or similar effects. A creature so affected can wash the paint off as a full round action that provokes attacks of opportunity if they have a sufficient source of water or a similar liquid available(Just an item to finally give mundanes a clear cut and defined way to handle creatures that use these as tactics. Most have a tagline of things that CAN reveal them, but no mundane way to explicitly reveal them.)

Camouflage Paint Kit- These finely blended paints come in a variety of colors and textures. If applied successfully with a DC (X) Craft (Painting) check taking 5 minutes of uninterrupted work, they grant a +5 circumstances bonus to stealth checks within the environment the check made for and a -20 penalty in other areas.

Sunflash Grenade- Made from combining large quantities of the alchemical reagents found in sunrods without their stabilizing chemicals. These grenades can be thrown a range of 50ft. Upon striking a hard surface, they explode with a brief yet intense flash of light. All creatures within a 10ft burst must make a DC (X) Reflex save or be blinded for 2d4 rounds.

Flashbang Grenade- These alchemical devices are made by carefully grinding out a cavity in a Thunderstone and filling it with a flash powder. The stone can be thrown with a 10ft range increment. Upon striking a creature or surface the stone shatters in a blinding flash of light and thunderous explosion. All creatures in a 10ft bust must make a DC (x) Fortitude save or deafened for 2d4 minutes as well as a DC (X) Reflex save or be blinded for 2d4 rounds.

I will toss more ideas when I have slept.

Mehangel

2015-07-30, 06:11 AM

Troll Blood Serum- gives the target Fast Healing 1 for X rounds, but requires a Fort save or be nauseated for the duration of the Fast Healing. (Good out of combat healing item and allows low magic/caster groups to heal without long pauses in game play. Basically an alchemical Infernal Healing potion with a drawback.)

This item already exists, it is called Troll Syptic (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/goods-and-services/herbs-oils-other-substances#TOC-Troll-Styptic).

Azoth

2015-07-30, 03:19 PM

Not sure how I forgot that. Thanks for reminding me

Kaidinah

2015-07-30, 04:00 PM

Incoming feedback! This is just for the magic item section. I will post again later with stuff from other sections.

Alternate slot items for natural armor, resistance bonus, deflection, etc. is just a great idea. I know a few GMs that only allow item creation rules for existing items, so players couldn't make alternate slot items. Having them printed somewhere will help out immensely.

Firesight eye's price point is definitely fair now.

Steelwalker's boots are way too cool. A very strong must-have item, but I think it is pretty balanced. It makes in-class movement speed buffs and class features such as armor training become worth much more as well.

Steeltusk's Punching Mitt is also quite cool. Looks very risky to use for many PCs. Though when you throw Bloodforge's Mixed Blood feat into the mix, this can be really cool (and strong)! If it needed any changes, I think it needs the fireball punch to be downgraded to a swift action. That way it is less dumb when combined with martial maneuvers and boosts. It is a little awkward that the item's price has some silver pieces in it. Might want to round that price?

Headless Helm is perfectly fine. No problems here.

Helm of Lost Flesh's penalties look quite harsh. At the level someone could afford it, it feels very easy to sunder.

Non-Secrecy Amulet is awesomely cool! No problems here.

Necklace of Many Charms: Kind of a necessary piece, considering charms need to go somewhere.

Angelwing Cloak is eeeeevil as heck, and might provide a bit too much DR for its price, especially in an evil campaign where your DR is likely to be rarely pierced.

Ironbody Cloak! I love it! No problems here.

Trick Cloak's immediate action stuff is nice. It allows it to circumvent a lot of the problems SR items have. Thanks for taking that into consideration!

Bracelet of Charms: See Necklace of Charms.

Rings of Bound Loyalty: Wow. Pretty creepy when I think about them. These would definitely make an interesting plot point too, especially if a PC was given one in marriage. A+

Chess Pieces of the Astral Army: Way too cool, and from what I can tell, balanced for 1 time use items. These will definitely be used in my games.

Emet Tablet feels too powerful. Since it ignores HD and CR, it is very easy to cheese out fights with a lot of powerful constructs, such as the Adamantine Golem (CR 19) can be stunned for 10 rounds straight by expending 10,000 gold.

Endeca’s Gregarious Gravity Slime is amazing! I do have questions though. The "save or fall" effect, is the save just once, or for every round that the slime effects the foe? So if I shot a flying wizard with a polyp, would he have to try to make his save for 4 rounds? Either way, the concept of this item is amazing, and I would have a hard time not buying this item (pet) as soon as possible.

Hate Seed: truly a fearsome item. Very cool for plot reasons, but also amazingly cool for an evil campaign.

Magecatcher Net/Greater Magecatcher Net: Yes please. A great buy for any high-level party.

Network Node Earring: Seeing magic item support for collectives is cool. This one in particular is great!

Power Bomb is a very cool option for Akashic Characters. I like it.

Power Charms are very cool! A lot of them are very useful, though one sticks out to me. Power Charm of Unyielding is only useful to Aegi that lose the DR class feature, since the DR from Adamantine won't stack with the Aegis's base DR. Other than that, these items are very cool. I like the way to modify their classes.

Refinement Charm's very concept is cool to me. I love the extra customization they can add. Again, only one stuck out to me as requiring change: Charm of Blood doesn't do much, since Bloodline Arcana almost never use your spellcasting attribute (I actually can't find any bloodline arcana that do, but there might be some).

Slip Grenades are great! I love the idea behind this item.

Smuggler's chest is another excellent item. I know it will be used in my campaigns.

Toxin Drinking Needle: And now players who like poison love you. Good job! I like this one too.

Warsong Instrument: This item does amazing things for a lot of bard concepts, and really helps bards choose other specializations besides sing, oratory, comedy, and dance. I do think it needs a rework however. Its cost is too high to be a concept enabler, and I think its mechanics are too strong for its purpose. I think vastly reducing the cost, removing the full-BAB mechanic, and finding some other buff for it to provide would be best.

Kymera

2015-08-01, 12:51 PM

.Can Aegis and Soulknife attune to their astral suit and mind blade? Technically they don't craft respective items, but it sounds like a very natural thing.

I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that an astral suit technically isn't crafted by the aegis. Soulknife is a bit more ambiguous, but I still see a much stronger case for than against the mind blade counting as crafted by the soulknife.

PsyBomb

2015-08-01, 07:46 PM

Vhaidara

2015-08-01, 08:28 PM

My friend can vouch for me. This was my response to that post (https://youtu.be/BSJTGla19o4?t=7m20s)

Still getting over that stage

Kaidinah

2015-08-01, 08:42 PM

Alright, Playground, the Gravity Slime Master prestige class has been posted to the Steelforge document.

As to everyone giving feedback here, know that we have been chewing on it pretty hard. I'll make sure to respond to you guys properly soon, but I don't have time to do it justice right now. It is all awesome, though, and much of it is being accounted for.I definitely like this Slime Master after my first reading of it, and look forward to running it. I think I need to examine it more before I give real feedback, but I do have some preliminary questions and suggestions:

You treat your slime guardian as an eidolon, does this include for the purpose of equipping magical items? As in, if you find a way to gear it up, it takes away from the Slime Master's own magic item slots? How about feats that affect eidolons?

Also, the Impact abilities lack save DCs. I think that instead of defining just the flightbreaker's DC, you should state that all Impact abilities use that DC formula. Currently, the later Impact abilities seem to lack language stating what their DCs are. It is pretty obvious what the intended DCs are, but it never hurts to have clarification.

PsyBomb

2015-08-01, 09:05 PM

I definitely like this Slime Master after my first reading of it, and look forward to running it. I think I need to examine it more before I give real feedback, but I do have some preliminary questions and suggestions:

You treat your slime guardian as an eidolon, does this include for the purpose of equipping magical items? As in, if you find a way to gear it up, it takes away from the Slime Master's own magic item slots? How about feats that affect eidolons?

Also, the Impact abilities lack save DCs. I think that instead of defining just the flightbreaker's DC, you should state that all Impact abilities use that DC formula. Currently, the later Impact abilities seem to lack language stating what their DCs are. It is pretty obvious what the intended DCs are, but it never hurts to have clarification.

Shared slots was not intended, I'll make sure to fix that (and thanks for the catch!). Same goes for the Impact save DCs. All of them are supposed to go off the same formula.

Vhaidara

2015-08-01, 09:28 PM

So, when do we get a Gravity Slime discipline?

Extra Anchovies

2015-08-01, 09:39 PM

PsyBomb

2015-08-01, 09:51 PM

Overall, it's a really nice control class. I'm not sure what would be a good base for it, though, since it stands on its own. Maybe some good noncaster like Slayer so you don't lose much in the way of base class features.

I don't think the Gravity Slime Guardian should gain the Reach evolution for its slam. Also, "treat this creature as a medium-sized Eidolon" means that in addition to the free evolutions you get to purchase more with evolution points. You'll want to specify that it doesn't gain any evolution points.

What age category of gravity slime is created by Launch Gravity Slime?

Specified on the SP thing, you're right in that it wasn't intended to get its own. Age category of the Launched slimes is entirely irrelevant, since they have their own scaling save DCs.

As for what to put it on... literally, the class was not written with anything in mind. I've attempted to sim it on stuff ranging from a Wizard to a Warder.

Extra Anchovies

2015-08-01, 09:57 PM

Age category of the Launched slimes is entirely irrelevant, since they have their own scaling save DCs.
Launch Gravity Slime is launching, well, a Gravity Slime, and the base effects of a gravity slime varies by age category:

The effects of Endeca’s gregarious gravity slime last for 2 rounds for larvae, 4 rounds for polyps, and 6 rounds for adults

PsyBomb

2015-08-01, 10:11 PM

Launch Gravity Slime is launching, well, a Gravity Slime, and the base effects of a gravity slime varies by age category:

All effects of Impact last for one minute :smallbiggrin:

Extra Anchovies

2015-08-01, 10:21 PM

All effects of Impact last for one minute :smallbiggrin:

There's nothing anywhere that says that the normal gravity slime effects don't apply at the same time as the Impacts do. When I said "base effects of a gravity slime" I meant this:

Victims lose all ability to fly; they have no flight speed, are treated as having no ranks in the Fly skill, and cannot hover, leap or levitate any higher than ten feet from the ground. If an affected creature is already flying, the slime cushions their fall and they suffer no damage.

PsyBomb

2015-08-01, 10:23 PM

There's nothing anywhere that says that the normal gravity slime effects don't apply at the same time as the Impacts do. When I said "base effects of a gravity slime" I meant this:

Ah, I see the confusion now. My fault for being unclear here (I'll edit the sheet), but that actually comes from the flightbreaker spell and is the level-1 Impact ability. You gain stuff to replace that with as you level.

Extra Anchovies

2015-08-01, 10:27 PM

Ah, I see the confusion now. My fault for being unclear here (I'll edit the sheet), but that actually comes from the flightbreaker spell and is the level-1 Impact ability. You gain stuff to replace that with as you level.

Hm. You might want to say that Impact replaces the normal gravity slime effect; otherwise it seems to me like a target would save once against the gravity slime's normal ability, and then save a second time against the impact effect.

PsyBomb

2015-08-01, 10:52 PM

Hm. You might want to say that Impact replaces the normal gravity slime effect; otherwise it seems to me like a target would save once against the gravity slime's normal ability, and then save a second time against the impact effect.

Wrote it into the Launch ability, but done. Thanks again for pointing it out, and sorry I didn't get the point quicker.

unseenmage

2015-08-02, 10:32 AM

Forgive me if this question is ill conceived but what percentage of the final product is/could be unveiled in this thread vs what will/could appear in the final product?

And as a bonus question, what if I have almost an entire monster manual worth of creatures homebrewed up from years of playing 3.x and was interested in converting them to PF and sharing them with the community? Any way I can do that in an official or semiofficial capacity?

I'm loving what you folks are putting together here. And the fact that the community gets to help shape the content is fantastic.

Elricaltovilla

2015-08-02, 10:36 AM

I've added some new material. Poison Inverting Mask, new special materials Ironwood and Glass Steel, and a new mundane item in the Sparking Sheath.

PsyBomb

2015-08-02, 11:01 AM

Forgive me if this question is ill conceived but what percentage of the final product is/could be unveiled in this thread vs what will/could appear in the final product? .

Intended page count of the final product is 80+, the playtest document is currently sitting at 31. Trust me, there is a LOT of stuff to come, and just about all of it will be put up into the document for testing and proofing. Open betas make for better stuff, after all.

Unfortunately, I can't really speak to the chances on the rest of the post, so I won't venture.

Prime32

2015-08-02, 11:13 AM

How does the Poison Inverting Mask interact with Siphon Poison (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/siphon-poison), pick your poison (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/p/pick-your-poison), Reject Poison (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/reject-poison) and Developed Poison Immunity (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/rogue/rogue-talents/paizo---rogue-talents/developed-poison-immunity-ex)?

According to the rules for multiple doses of poison, you should be able to extend the mask's effects indefinitely by constantly exposing yourself to the type of poison inserted into it (though this might require immunity to ability damage).

Kymera

2015-08-02, 12:30 PM

I like the theme and feel of the gravity slime master, but as it stands now, the companion has severe scaling issues, and wil at best only be combat relevant for a couple of levels out of its master‘s entire career. When first gotten, it's a 2HD companion in (at least) level 6 fights; pretty much everything will be able to one-shot it without expending meaningful resources, it's only real defense is that it can't do anything that an enemy cares that it did, but that won't save it from AoE attacks. It faces a similar problem at level 20, where a companion that hasn't improved in the slightest since its master was level 10 is now facing level 20 challenges. Even in the best-case scenario (enter PrC at 6, complete it at 10), the companion is only really level-appropriate in its combat stats from levels 9 through 11, and is at least somewhat relevant in a fight maybe as early as 8 or as late as 12, optimistically.

Elricaltovilla

2015-08-02, 12:54 PM

New weapon enchantment added: Cushioning.

Cushioning
Price: +2 Bonus
Aura: moderate evocation
Description: Cushioning weapons often see use as training implements used among the more destructive martial arts as a cost saving effort. These weapons exude a magical gel which clings to equipment, rendering it useless for an extended period of time but also protecting the item from being completely destroyed by violent action. It found popularity among certain professions that involve frequently killing people and taking their stuff. When a cushioning weapon is used to sunder an item and applies the broken condition to that item, the condition only lasts for 10 minutes, after which the item reverts to its fully repaired state. In addition, a cushioning weapon’s enhancement bonus can be applied to any sunder attempt the wielder makes.

Construction and Requirements: Craft Magical Arms and Armor, shatter, mending; Cost: +2 bonus.

MilleniaAntares

2015-08-02, 01:07 PM

Enhancement bonuses already apply to sunder CMB.

Maybe you can have it double the enhancement bonus instead?

Elricaltovilla

2015-08-02, 01:23 PM

Enhancement bonuses already apply to sunder CMB.

Maybe you can have it double the enhancement bonus instead?

If it already applies I'm likely to just remove that line for being unnecessary reminder text. It's pretty arbitrary which combat maneuvers get the benefits of enhancement bonus and which don't, and since I'm lazy I tend to just add it to all of them.

Mithril Leaf

2015-08-02, 02:16 PM

It might just be me, but Spiritbound weapons seem objectively inferior to Essence Forged ones from the Supplemental release. Just figured I should mention it.

PsyBomb

2015-08-02, 02:36 PM

It might just be me, but Spiritbound weapons seem objectively inferior to Essence Forged ones from the Supplemental release. Just figured I should mention it.

Essence forged weapons are superior in many ways... but not all. It's a fight between essence efficiency and enhancement variety.

MilleniaAntares

2015-08-02, 04:06 PM

If it already applies I'm likely to just remove that line for being unnecessary reminder text. It's pretty arbitrary which combat maneuvers get the benefits of enhancement bonus and which don't, and since I'm lazy I tend to just add it to all of them.
On a personal basis I tend to use the FAQ/errata for Weapon Finesse (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/weapon-finesse-combat---final), specifically this sentence: "Disarm, sunder, and trip are normally the only kinds of combat maneuvers in which you’re actually using a weapon to perform the maneuver, and therefore the weapon’s bonuses apply to the roll."

Mithril Leaf

2015-08-02, 05:07 PM

Essence forged weapons are superior in many ways... but not all. It's a fight between essence efficiency and enhancement variety.

If it were in your optimization guide for Akashic Mysteries, would you more likely suggest that people purchase one over the other? Maybe there should be some additional reasons to choose a generally worse one.

PsyBomb

2015-08-02, 07:54 PM

If it were in your optimization guide for Akashic Mysteries, would you more likely suggest that people purchase one over the other? Maybe there should be some additional reasons to choose a generally worse one.

You choose based on investment and desired properties. If you can bind to Shoulders eventually and like the weapon arranged +5/+5, you will ALWAYS pick essence-forged. If one of these is not true, they are near-equal. If both aren't, you'll like Spiritbound.

Essence-forged gains a lot in situations with tight WBL, though (a TWF Guru, for example, will usually prefer to invest an extra feat to unlock shoulders than the enormous expense of fully enhancing two weapons).

AmberVael

2015-08-03, 02:34 PM

I decided to give the document a run through and get out my thoughts. I do want to clarify that I've only recently begun to get into Pathfinder, so if there is a Pathfinder specific quirk that would throw off my reasoning, that's why.

Girdle of Protection, Carapace of Natural Armor and Co.
So, on one hand, I think its useful to have a quick write up of these items. On the other hand I think the increased cost is a mistake. While the cost markup is in the rules of both 3.5 and Pathfinder, I've never found them to actually have any positive impact on the game. In the Magic Item Compendium they basically did away with those rules entirely with their 'Common Item Effects' rules and the impact was a really good one- people could still get the common magical effects they needed, while not giving up item slots for more interesting effects and items.
I can understand not wanting to go the full way of the Magic Item Compendium and just allow these effects to basically be unslotted, but I think the 50% price increase is a mistake. All it really does is punish someone who wants a slightly different item setup, and there's not really a balance reason for doing so. Taking up a slot is what provides the balance, not necessarily which slot it takes up.
Suffice to say, while the current pricing plays to the base rules of the game, there's something to be said for acknowledging a mistake and moving past it. And this mistake was kinda already acknowledged years ago by WotC.

Firesight Eyes
What these eyes are supposed to do is really obvious. While you wear them, you can see people. If you want to be a RAW abusing buttface though, I think you can make the argument that it reveals outlined creatures to everyone. Yeah, it says only you can see the outline, but you don't need to see the outline for someone to be outlined, right? And its being outlined that makes you visible. So I dunno, maybe tweak the wording a little. Maybe just throw in the phrase "in regards to you?" Bit clunky, there's probably a better way to do it, but that would definitely close any stupid sneaky loophole.
Also I want to agree that the name is pretty great.

Steelwalker Boots
I like this item, and I find the use of Staggered as a deterrent to be an interesting alternative to uses per day or per encounter. I'm not entirely sure how I feel about it, but I think its an idea worth exploring (especially since I despise the per day paradigm). I wonder about the price, but honestly I couldn't say if it is too much or too little, since its both much more expensive than the short distance travel items I'm used to, yet also a lot more versatile and freely usable.

Headless Helm
I'm not sure if this is a reference to Harry Potter or Celty. Either way (or both?), I approve.
The effect is pretty interesting.

Helm of Lost Flesh
I'd discourage the last two effects of keeping this on so long. 3d6 con damage is probably where I'd leave it- that's risky enough for most characters. Maybe keep the death consequence if someone wears it for something like a month, just for the potential plot or weird enemy shenanigans? That way it'd be near impossible for a player to get hit with unavoidable death unless they wanted to deal with that consequence. I don't honestly see this coming up so much, but it seems unnecessary to have it in the first place and it makes me leery to see it.

Angelwing Cloak
"I'm absolutely trustworthy!" Shouts the guy wearing torn off angel wings dripping with blood.
Somehow, no one believed him.

Rings of Bound Loyalty
Well that's freaking creepy. Maybe make it more obvious in the price line that the price is for a pair? Just to make absolutely sure there's no confusion. I wish I could say I was confident that the line in the item text would be enough, but experience has taught me to not be that confident.

Chess Pieces of the Astral Army
This is going to end in the most expensive (and most awesome) chess game ever played.

Emet Tablet
I don't think this item will see use. Its a one shot item (ew), it only affects a very specific group of enemies (double ew), the effect is good but not crazy, and 2000 gold isn't a small amount of money to throw at a one shot item. I think something would need to change to make it viable.

Endeca’s Gregarious Gravity Slime
...you people are weird.
I think I'd either design this as a multiuse item, or a limited use item. The fact that it both regenerates and can easily be permanently destroyed kinda bothers me. I'd probably just say it can regenerate even from tiny scraps. I also might consider having the larger ones regenerate at a little bit faster rate.

Slip Grenades
This makes me think of Legacy of the Void adepts.
I want Psionic Transfer to be a thing in D&D now.

Bearded (Weapon)
So upon seeing this level of pun, I have to ask how many of you are fathers.

Exploding (Weapon)
You may wish to clarify whether the wielder of the Exploding weapon would also take damage if they're adjacent, just to make it perfectly clear. Given the goblin theme, I'm assuming they do.

Morphing (Weapon)
It strikes me that the wording is such that Morphing can benefit from any weapon specific feat. Regardless of what weapon it was forged as, or even can change into- a morphing weapon that can become any light weapon can still benefit from Weapon Focus (The Biggest And Most Implausible Of Buster Swords). That doesn't seem quite right, but I'm not quite sure if it was or was not intended, or what WAS intended.

Skinning (Weapon)
Ow.
Maybe clarify the action on that Heal check? How long a heal check takes differs, after all, and this isn't a normal use of heal.

Spell Echoing (Weapon)
Wow. Being able to double your spell slots/power points is quite a strong option, even if this has limitations. Certainly a must have for any gish or any caster who can use weapons. Possibly even makes it worth it for casters to make sure they can use weapons. This might be too strong for its effect, especially since its impossible to waste the stored spell-echo (since it only casts on a successful hit).
But I'm also uncertain if I'm even reading this right. Is it that it casts a second iteration of the spell, or that it just allows you to spend another spell slot or more power points to cast the spell again when you hit someone? That would also make sense, but isn't quite what the wording seems to imply.
This probably needs some clearing up and clarification.

Locations of Power
There are not enough locations. GIVE ME MORE. FEEEED MEEEEE.

Ninjaxenomorph

2015-08-03, 02:45 PM

There is a similar enchantment to morphing, Transformative, already in existence. What it does is quite different, though.

Roadie

2015-08-03, 03:57 PM

I find myself now wondering how many male characters will end up wearing corsets just to optimize their equipment slots.

Tuvarkz

2015-08-03, 04:23 PM

I find myself now wondering how many male characters will end up wearing corsets just to optimize their equipment slots.

I've already been getting Corsets of Delicate Moves for my initiator characters, provoking a general reaction of people laughing at the concept of manly half-orcs taking out their armor to reveal a corset behind it.

Elricaltovilla

2015-08-03, 04:45 PM

I find myself now wondering how many male characters will end up wearing corsets just to optimize their equipment slots.

Corsets (like many fashion items) were originally a male fashion piece.

Mithril Leaf

2015-08-03, 07:10 PM

I find myself now wondering how many male characters will end up wearing corsets just to optimize their equipment slots.

Have you ever seen a Witch's gear? Full of blouses and corsets.

TiaC

2015-08-04, 07:14 AM

Girdle of Protection, Carapace of Natural Armor and Co.
So, on one hand, I think its useful to have a quick write up of these items. On the other hand I think the increased cost is a mistake. While the cost markup is in the rules of both 3.5 and Pathfinder, I've never found them to actually have any positive impact on the game. In the Magic Item Compendium they basically did away with those rules entirely with their 'Common Item Effects' rules and the impact was a really good one- people could still get the common magical effects they needed, while not giving up item slots for more interesting effects and items.
I can understand not wanting to go the full way of the Magic Item Compendium and just allow these effects to basically be unslotted, but I think the 50% price increase is a mistake. All it really does is punish someone who wants a slightly different item setup, and there's not really a balance reason for doing so. Taking up a slot is what provides the balance, not necessarily which slot it takes up.
Suffice to say, while the current pricing plays to the base rules of the game, there's something to be said for acknowledging a mistake and moving past it. And this mistake was kinda already acknowledged years ago by WotC.

This is exactly how I feel. As things stand, I could rip out and burn every page describing headbands, belts, or cloaks from every Pathfinder book and not notice the difference. Cloaks are the worst for this. I don't think I have ever made a Pathfinder character who did not wear a Cloak of Resistance. The first time I came to this thread, I opened the playtest document, looked at the first three items, and closed it in disgust. I would have to be in the high teens level-wise before I would even consider buying one of those items, and even then, only if I absolutely needed something else in the slot.

(Especially egregious is how the consolidating of stat items into two slots just reinforces caster supremacy. Casters can boost their casting stat and con and pay no mark-up, but every non-caster wants to boost multiple physical stats and must pay half again as much for the second one.)

Forrestfire

2015-08-07, 02:30 PM

I have a question about the Ectoplasmic Manufacturer's capstone. It says this:

Construct Army A manufacturer of 20th level has made an immense breathrough: he has learned to make and control multiple constructs. As a standard action, he may make his first construct in an encounter. Every additional construct thereafter takes a full-round action. The duration expires on all astral constructs simultaneously - thus the countdown begins with the first construct’s duration.

Am I correct in reading this as allowing you to create additional constructs within the cooldown of one manifestation of your Astral Construct ability, without costing additional uses of it? The alternative—that the capstone's benefit is merely "you can have multiple astral constructs out"—seems like another possible reading, if a nonsensical one. There is no limit normally to the amount of astral constructs you can have manifested, after all, so I was hoping that this could get cleared up a bit and maybe made more explicit about what it does.

meemaas

2015-08-07, 02:43 PM

I have a question about the Ectoplasmic Manufacturer's capstone. It says this:

Am I correct in reading this as allowing you to create additional constructs within the cooldown of one manifestation of your Astral Construct ability, without costing additional uses of it? The alternative—that the capstone's benefit is merely "you can have multiple astral constructs out"—seems like another possible reading, if a nonsensical one. There is no limit normally to the amount of astral constructs you can have manifested, after all, so I was hoping that this could get cleared up a bit and maybe made more explicit about what it does.

I thought the same the first time I read it, but actually, the second and later constructs come out faster at a full - round action as opposed to the one round manifesting time it otherwise has.

PsyBomb

2015-08-07, 04:18 PM

Kaidinah

2015-08-07, 04:59 PM

And he said yes.VICTORY! Thank you for taking that chance for this awesome opportunity.

stack

2015-08-07, 06:38 PM

So, I have something exciting to announce.

We have messaged Adam Meyers, the creator of Spheres of Power, to ask for permission to create some items for this project featuring his classes and mechanics. Perhaps would even be working on possible synergies between the classes of Drop Dead Studios and Dreamscarred Press. We had a few of these items sketched out, just ideas really...

And he said yes.

None of them are on the doc just yet, they are undergoing polishing and getting brought up to the standards we expect out of ourselves. Over the course of the next week, though, a few are going to start showing up. You read that right. I am happy to announce that Steelforge will include content featuring Spheres of Power.

Happy hunting!

Dang...that's cool. I have been sadly neglecting his thread to work on my SoP handbooks, but now you are making me follow it just to keep the handbooks up to date. Well played.

Edit - love the idea of the gravity slime master, but the slime guardian seems ludicrously squishy at most levels; 2 HD at character level 6 is just fireball bait, while 10 HD at character level 20 is equally pathetic. It's nice at character level 10, but the scaling needs to be changed dramatically, way too uneven with too odd a usefulness curve. I would suggest either base it on character level as an eidolon or make the whole thing a summoner archetype (weird eidolon summon's are under-utilized, I think), maybe intelligence based to go along with the crafting theme.

Edit 2 cannabalize construct has a daily limit why? Your summon's are already a limited resource, all you are doing is turning hem into a little healing, why cap that to a few times a day?

Abithrios

2015-08-08, 05:14 PM

Ninjaxenomorph

2015-08-08, 06:14 PM

I suggested a power charm that boosts sneak attack, rather than a normal stackable charm.

PsyBomb

2015-08-08, 06:43 PM

I don't often give my opinions on threads like this, but I have a few I would like to share.

First, I strongly agree with the people arguing that the alternate body slot items with boring effect should not have increased price. I also echo their calls for rules allowing the addition of those boring effects to existing items with no additional markup.

Second, I don't much like Charm of Precision in its present form. This point deserves its own sublist:

1. The maximum level of 20 seems to discourage investment in real rogue levels. Existing rogues get damage and other class features. A rogue 10/Charm of Precision 10 would only have the other class features to look forward to, making additional levels less appealing.

2. Some levels, there is no reason to buy one more, while other levels there is no reason to use the last one you bought. This makes in character equipment usage depend oddly on the out of character concept of level.

3. You can fix those problems by making them give a flat boost to sneak attack damage, but +2 damage for every 500 gp invested sets off my "big numbers" alarm. I will leave it to people with more system mastery to decide if that is really too much, but it feels like a lot.

4. As written it looks like it would add fuel to arguments that pathfinder rogues are worse than their 3.5 brethren. I don't like reading debates about that issue, and I can imagine the arguments already.
"Rogue is a one level dip"
"Even more niche protection lost"
"DSP hates pure rogues"
I am not saying that you need to get rid of that charm completely, but it could use a lot of looking at. Even capping a character to a number of charms based on class level of the sneak attacking class would help with some of these issues. Alternatively, if it cannot more than double existing dice, that would help.

Third, slime master is awesome. Can its special slimes be applied to weapons?

Thanks for the feedback! I wrote the Charms and the Slime Master, so I'll be taking this post.

The re-slot items were, as everyone here suspected, just written to make official versions of the rule-supported stuff. We have gotten that feedback a lot, though, and are debating whether to go for the MIC version.

I'm... on the fence about the Refinement Charms. Debating whether to just replace them all with Power Charm versions to see if I can make it more interesting. In this solution, I'd probably end up taking Ninjaxenomorph's idea and just make it +1d6.

On the topic of Slime Master, the slime coating created with its Weapon Slime ability can apply any of your Impact abilities by default. I'm working on a way to get the Guardian to scale a bit better, plus rearranging the status effects a bit to make sure it progresses smoothly.

stack

2015-08-09, 06:59 AM

SoP item idea - runs that you can cast teleportation beacon on, extending the duration indefinately. Still subject to the 1/time limit. Combine with the portal talent to sneak armies around.

Edit - maybe an item that lets you invest spell points to be spent to lessen your backlash chance as a thaumaturge or let's you burn them to negate backlash, say by spending the same number of SP from the item that you would have lost from the backlash, maybe with an additional rider.

EldritchWeaver

2015-08-09, 08:48 AM

I noticed some small errors. A general cleanup thing is that some sentences are separated by two spaces instead one. That's something I'd do last.

"The magic is contains hardens the wearer’s skin,adding another layer of protection giving him an enhancement bonus to his natural armor from +1 to +5, depending on the carapace." "skin,adding" misses a space in between.

"Any participant in the telepathic conversation can tell that someone is listening in with a Spellcraft or Perception check (DC 20)" Dot at the end is missing.

"One gallon of lead paint is enough to coat the inside of a large chest or a hundred square feet of surface (four 5ft squares)" Dot at the end is missing.

"Prepared casters have a spell of their choice or the correct level prepared in the slots." "or" instead of "of".

"Add the chosen feat to the trap’s construction requirements" Dot at the end is missing.

"A manufacturer of 20th level has made an immense breathrough:" "breathrough" instead of "breakthrough".

"Weapon: Gain an insight bonus to attack and damage rolls equal to the invested Essence while attacking
with this weapon" Dot at the end is missing.

"Armor: Gain DR/- and an Insight bonus to AC equal to the essence invested" Dot at the end is missing.

"This ability replaces Passion Bond" Dot at the end is missing.

"Weapon: The weapon is affected by either Armory of the Conqueror or Storm Gauntlets" Dot at the end is missing.

"Shield: The shield is affected by either El’s Utterdark Shield or Crusader’s Shield" Dot at the end is missing.

"Armor: The armor grants the effects of Cincture of the Dragon or Stone Giant’s Girdle" Dot at the end is missing.

"Requirements: In order to become a forgelord, a character must meet these requirements" Dot at the end is missing.

"Skills: Craft (any one) (5 ranks), Spellcraft (5 ranks)" Dot at the end is missing.

"Weapon and Armor Proficiencies: The forgelord gains no new armor or weapon proficiencies (but see below)" The intro isn't bolded. Dot at the end is missing.

"if an item would fall into more than one category (such as the Ring of the Grand Vizier, which could be Armor or Wonderous), then the forgelord must choose which set of bonuses that item will be granted." "if" should be capitalized. "Wonderous" instead of "Wondrous".

"Gain Weapon Proficiency and Weapon Focus with that weapon for as long as you stay attuned" Dot at the end is missing.

"Increase its bonus to AC by another one (total of 2), and it now grants DR X/- where X is equal to your class level. This stacks with any other source of DR/-" Dot at the end is missing.

"For example, a monk attuned to a magical chain shirt would retain her class features while wearing it" Dot at the end is missing.

"-Wonderous:" "Wonderous" instead of "Wondrous".

"If the item is activated as a full-round action or less, reduce the time required to activate it by one step (full round to standard to move to swift to immediate)" Dot at the end is missing.

"Using this ability again before a previous instance expires causes the old effect to immediately fade" Dot at the end is missing.

"Requirements: In order to become a gravity slime master, a character must meet these requirements
Skills: Knowledge (Arcana) 3 ranks, Spellcraft (5 ranks)
Feats: Craft Wondrous Item
Special: Must have used a single Endeca’s gregarious gravity slime at least ten times" Dot at the end is missing for every line.

"The gravity slime master gains no new armor or weapon proficiencies" Dot at the end is missing.

"All Impact effects last for one minute" Dot at the end is missing.

"The target may attempt a Strength check each round (same DC) to break free" Dot at the end is missing.

"At 4th level, you may instead choose to have the target be slowed if they fail a Will save" Dot at the end is missing.

"At 5th level, you may instead choose to have the target be paralyzed if they fail a Fortitude save" Dot at the end is missing.

"At the beginning of the round following a miss, you may attempt the ranged attack roll one more time at the same attack bonus ." Superfluous space before the dot.

"If a character has no items at this price point, something is typically wrong with loot or their means of character generation." "the" is missing before "loot".

The "Charming" enhancement has some unintended interaction with SoP. There the default is that everyone can use armors without arcane spell failure. So magic users are only one Sphere Cleric level dip away of being able to cast in heavy armor. In other words, characters with access to the Mind sphere Enthrall talent can benefit greatly. I'd rule that someone with the Expanded Charm talent would be able to affect opponents of any type as well. Maybe having an SoP version of this would help.

"A single spell from the evocation school can be attached to the trap. The spell must target the item’s wielder. If the spell would normally hit multiple creatures, such as a fireball, it instead is centered on the wielder. If the spell allows a save, all creatures affected by the spell can make a save as normal, but with a -2 penalty. If the trigger for the trap occurs at a range longer than the effect, the spell fails and the trap goes off with no effect. At the spell to the trap’s construction requirements."

Am I to understand that someone triggering the trap via command word and the spell range is personal, the spell would fail, even if the item is currently used, who could be affected by the spell?

The Snuff spell sounds like a way, how I would be able to disable a Contingency, except it doesn't affect creatures. Any thoughts about adding this effect?

Mehangel

2015-08-09, 09:18 AM

Heres a possible Spheres of Power item:

Power Converter:
This strange device has several crystals of different colors protruding from the center, each of them seems to glow when a particular energy is channeled inside.
In order to function, the wielder must grasp two of the six crystals, one of which must be the spell point crystal. If more than two crystals are being grasped, or if more than one individual is grasping the device, it fails to function. The crystals and associated functions are as follows:

Spell Slots: Channeling highest level spell known produces 1 spell point.
Alchemist Extract: Pouring highest level extract produces 1 spell point.
Power Points: Channeling a number of PP equal to your manifester level produces 1 spell point.
Ki Pool: Channeling 1 ki point produces 1 spell point.
Essenstia: Channeling 1 Essence point produces 1 spell point.
Arcana Pool: Channeling 1 Arcana produces 1 spell point.
Spell Pool: Channeling 1 spell point produces one of the following:
o a Temporary Spell Slot of highest level known -3 (Minimum 1) which lasts for 24 hours or until used.
o a Temporary Alchemist Extract of highest level known -2 (Minimum 1) which lasts for 24 hours or until used.
o a number of Temporary Power Points equal to 1/2 your manifester level (Minimum 1)
o a single Ki point is restored, or if your ki pool is full, grants 1 temporary ki point which lasts for 24 hours or until used.
o a single point of Essence is restored, if your essence pool is full, no spell point is spent in this process.
o a single arcana point is restored, if your arcana pool is full, grants 1 temporary arcana point which lasts for 24 hours or until used.

EDIT: or instead of 1 item, it could be seven different items used to convert between magic systems.

unseenmage

2015-08-09, 09:21 AM

Something you might consider tackling (depending on how brave you all are :smalltongue:) that was neglected in 3.x; Are Constructs Magic Items in Pathfinder? Mind you PF may have already addressed this, if so please forgive my ignorance and ignore me.

There is a lot of RAI and RAW both subtle and unsubtle on both points indicating that Constructs are Magic Items in 3.x. However there's some cognitive disconnect when one uses the Magic Item rules on Constructs and vice versa.

IIRC PF largely inherits its wording on the issue from 3.x, in that the feats for making Constructs are Magic Item creation feats etc. So PF RAW probably considers Constructs to be Magic Items by RAW too.

Another subtle bit of Magic Item oddness is the difference between demiplanes, extradimensional spaces, and nondimensional spaces. Again I know more about this in 3.x than I do PF. If Bags of Holding, Handy Haversacks, and Rope Trick spaces etc are all the same thing then they're likely demiplanes and they can be Plane Shift-ed into with the correct 'tuning fork' material component. If they're extradimensional one can have their Dedicated Wright/Valet Familiar working inside them. If they're nondimensional then they are weird and I don't get them at all. :smallsmile:

Some of the questions that come up:
What about gravity and jostling inside one's Bag of Holding? If I have a desk and worktable in there does it get knocked over every time I dismount or tumble through combat? Can I scoop enemies into my Nondimensional Trunk and just shake the thing until the enemies are knocked out?

What of the time trait of the plane I'm adventuring on? If time doesn't change then can I find containers created on fast time planes and carry them around to age my enemies to death/create items faster?Does a Reverse Gravity spell or a Plane Shift to a fast time plane also affect the inside of my extra-whatever-ey items? If the direction of gravity doesn't change inside the container does it become a reverse pit trap?

You get the idea, yes? Ruling on these seems like it can be... problematic.

Normally the purview of gratuitous 'Ask your DM.' responses in rules threads these issues could use some codifying in my opinion. But I understand if they're beyond the scope of this publication.

Was wondering last night if this would be appropriate to mention in here and figured 'What the heck why not ask.'
In any case, keep up the good work. And I mean that for both sides, both the writers and the playtesters. I intend to utilize all this hard work whenever possible.

Edit: Oh yeah, and some more Animated Object CP abilities would be awesome. Bonus CP for having a completely immobilized Animated Object, say a section of wall or a door neither of which could move spaces both of which could still defend their immediate spaces. And access to the Swallow Whole ability for animated bags or animated bodies of liquids.
What? I like Constructs. Constructs are cool. :smallbiggrin:

Extra Anchovies

2015-08-09, 09:00 PM

Just want to say again that I love the Axiom. It lets me play Ironsoul Forgemaster.

A few things:
1. They get gold-looking stuff at six essence. But they never get an increase in their essence cap past four, because they don't have passion veils. Unless they just get general essence cap increases at 9th and 15th, in which case that needs to be enumerated somewhere.
2. Shield bonus to CMD is going to make them pretty much immune to maneuvers. Changing the scaling on that (but not on the energy resistance) to equal the invested essence would be fair. To compensate, maybe make the energy resistance equal to 3*essence? It would make using a shield more worthwhile, which is a good thing in this rules system.

PsyBomb

2015-08-09, 09:18 PM

Kaidinah

2015-08-10, 05:58 AM

Looking through the Item Enhancement section, there are quite a few enchantments I would consider making into a static cost, instead of having them increase the enhancement bonus of a piece of equipment.

I personally believe that Cushioning, Morphing, Skinning, and Folding should all be static costs, instead of increases to an item's enhancement bonus.

Also, if I am understanding twinned correctly, if you have 1 good weapon (let's say its +4) and 1 masterwork weapon, you enhance the +4 weapon with twinned to make it a +5 weapon total, and then you enhance the masterwork weapon as a +1 weapon then enhance it with twinned to make it cost as much as a +2 weapon, but it uses a +4 enhancement bonus to attack and damage? This is definitely a good deal if I am understanding it right, though it only starts being a good deal when the main weapon is a +3 twinned weapon (+4 bonus total). Is there any way to jiggle the math so that twinned becomes worth it before this time?

stack

2015-08-10, 07:22 AM

My half-giant thaumaturge/warder build will enjoy the brave enchantment. At level 10 his greatsword is doing 12d6 base damage. (Alteration for size change to huge, light for encompassing light to have damage and reach as two sizes larger, half giant to start with a large weapon to stack those five size increases on)

Yes, vital strike, seize the opportunity, and a bucket of d6 are on the shopping list.

Elricaltovilla

2015-08-10, 08:42 AM

Nyaa

2015-08-10, 09:32 AM

encompassing light

1min/level, no spell point, +1/+2/+3 effective sizes at CL 1/10/20?

stack

2015-08-10, 09:51 AM

1min/level, no spell point, +1/+2/+3 effective sizes at CL 1/10/20?

Yup. The build concept is to dip one level of warder for combat reflexes based on Int, then thaumaturge for casting. The CL 20 break point isn't that far away either, between boons, items, and forbidden lore.

Thoughts on my guardian slime and cannabalize suit concerns?

EldritchWeaver

2015-08-10, 10:44 AM

We have messaged Adam Meyers, the creator of Spheres of Power, to ask for permission to create some items for this project featuring his classes and mechanics. Perhaps would even be working on possible synergies between the classes of Drop Dead Studios and Dreamscarred Press. We had a few of these items sketched out, just ideas really...

And he said yes.

I've been wondering: What was was the reason to consider a cooperation in the first place? That seems not that common from my impression and you seem to go for a long-term partnership as well.

Prime32

2015-08-11, 10:27 AM

Would Steelforge be the appropriate place for something like this?

Equipment Repository: The aegis may absorb any wearable or handheld item into his power stone repository as if it were a power stone. Each time the aegis forms his astral suit he may choose for any number of these absorbed items to appear equipped on his body, which disappear when his suit is dismissed. Worn items meld into his astral suit and cannot be targeted separately, but handheld items do not gain this benefit, and a handheld item is automatically released from his repository if it leaves his grasp for more than 1 round. Should the aegis summon an item onto a body slot that is already occupied by an item, then his astral suit encloses the existing item and suppresses its benefits. The aegis cannot summon more items than he can use at once (e.g. two cloaks, or more weapons than he has hands) but may switch his summoned items at any time, as an action equivalent to forming his astral suit. If the aegis absorbs and summons a suit of armor in this fashion then the armor itself does not appear, but its enhancement bonus and special properties apply to his astral suit; this benefit does not stack with the effects of crystal spaulders and similar items.
The aegis must have the Power Stone Repository customization to select this customization.

Kymera

2015-08-12, 12:37 AM

Would Steelforge be the appropriate place for something like this?

Ooh. Not sure if this is the place for it, but I like this idea. Armor special treatment should probably specify that it doesn't apply to astral skin version, and maybe give astral skin an equivalent to absorb the powers of a psychoactive skin. Or, if the effective elimination of the astral suit's item slot drawback makes the customization too strong, can just have psychoactive skins undeployable with astral skin, and armor undeployable with astral armor and juggernaut.

Nyaa

2015-08-12, 03:13 AM

I find it mildly annoying that necklace and bracelets of many charms are going to have empty rings on most characters. How about some general-purpose refinement charms, like +2 HP?

Vhaidara

2015-08-15, 06:20 PM

PsyBomb

2015-08-15, 07:49 PM

Hey guys! Just got back from a business trip where my internet connection was... well, basically one bar on my phone if I was lucky. Wanted to respond to a few things here, they deserve it.

<snip>

You have NO idea how hard it is to do good editing on a live doc, a million thanks wouldn't be enough for this help! Goes double from me, since most of the edits you pointed out were on stuff I am responsible for. Editing pass will probably be tonight.

Looking through the Item Enhancement section, there are quite a few enchantments I would consider making into a static cost, instead of having them increase the enhancement bonus of a piece of equipment.

I personally believe that Cushioning, Morphing, Skinning, and Folding should all be static costs, instead of increases to an item's enhancement bonus.

Also, if I am understanding twinned correctly, if you have 1 good weapon (let's say its +4) and 1 masterwork weapon, you enhance the +4 weapon with twinned to make it a +5 weapon total, and then you enhance the masterwork weapon as a +1 weapon then enhance it with twinned to make it cost as much as a +2 weapon, but it uses a +4 enhancement bonus to attack and damage? This is definitely a good deal if I am understanding it right, though it only starts being a good deal when the main weapon is a +3 twinned weapon (+4 bonus total). Is there any way to jiggle the math so that twinned becomes worth it before this time?

The point where that actually becomes price-effective is more-or-less intentional. It is right around the point when most TWF characters start seriously upgrading the offhand.

Incidentally, sorry for not actually typing this the first time. Somehow missed it.

I've been wondering: What was was the reason to consider a cooperation in the first place? That seems not that common from my impression and you seem to go for a long-term partnership as well.

It is less of a long-term deal and more of an "I PMed him to ask permission to use his stuff." People love both DSP and DDS (including several of us), so when a couple of ideas came up in the dev chat and bossman said yes, we were ECSTATIC to make it happen.

As for why it doesn't often happen... well, it's complicated. Short version is that 3PP run a lot on reputation and courtesy, and just yanking other people's technically-OGL content to adapt for your own gain is seen (rightfully) as being REMARKABLY rude. A lot of people want to be fully free to explore their own concepts, as well, instead of having to tiptoe around what others have done with it. Lastly, building bridges like that by definition requires a player to be invested in not one, but three companies (Paizo and both of the 3PP involved), which many players simply won't do. Yes, that was the short version.

I find it mildly annoying that necklace and bracelets of many charms are going to have empty rings on most characters. How about some general-purpose refinement charms, like +2 HP?

You know, that is actually something that I had been debating on doing, myself. Due to continued feedback on the Charms (including yours), I am going to be shifting several of the Refinement Charms to Power Charm versions, and inserting several generic Refinement Charms as well. This may come with a rules brush-up for them, depending on how they work out. Going to be working on a lot of mechanical writing over the next few hours, so if I get a chance it will start popping up then.

PsyBomb

2015-08-15, 07:53 PM

Question about the Chessboard: When destroyed, it lets you summon Pawns and Knights. Do you summon the piece, or the construct that the piece summons? If it summons the piece, how long does the piece stay? Otherwise, you net 2600 a day in wondrous items

EDIT: Also, shouldn't there be some disadvantage from having lost pieces? Currently, you can turn it around when reduced to nothing but your king, when your opponent still has a full board.

The actual constructs, not the magic items. I'll try to make that clearer. As for the mechanics... well, it was getting on the complicated side as it was, and I didn't want to insert another layer to it. Feel free to take my quick-and-dirty breakdown, dump it by the wayside, and come up with your own chess match. Originally, the Chessboard was going to have the ability to mass-summon one side of the board, and destroying it would involve flipping a full board to challenge it to a 16-on-16 brawl. Lord Gareth pointed out that this match would take HOURS to resolve, and we wanted play to be able to continue.

Vhaidara

2015-08-15, 07:54 PM

...THAT SOUNDS AMAZING.

Totally, doing a Harry Potter thing with that where the players all replace a piece.

Roadie

2015-08-15, 09:49 PM

We have gotten that feedback a lot, though, and are debating whether to go for the MIC version.

Here's a serious question: is there any reason not to that isn't "it doesn't match up to the magic item creation guidelines that Paizo copy-pasted from the 3.5 SRD"?

Mithril Leaf

2015-08-15, 09:58 PM

Here's a serious question: is there any reason not to that isn't "it doesn't match up to the magic item creation guidelines that Paizo copy-pasted from the 3.5 SRD"?

I second this point. It seems really only advantageous.

PsyBomb

2015-08-15, 10:10 PM

Here's a serious question: is there any reason not to that isn't "it doesn't match up to the magic item creation guidelines that Paizo copy-pasted from the 3.5 SRD"?

I guess if the question were easy, it wouldn't be getting asked.

Anyway, the big argument for a markup when you swap slots is literally for slot integrity. Most magic item slots have a general theme to what is supposed to be there (the best example I have of this comes out of Akashic Mysteries, check out the chakras). You start getting issues with players who have a slot or two they don't like to use for whatever reason (such as a character with heavy Armor proficiency and their Wrist slot). Freely swapping where these effects go means you end up with things like Boots of Resistance, Bracers of Intellect, or a Headband of Flying. This starts to really come into effect with the Big Six and similar, effects that the game design assumes that you have in its base math.

Thus, the argument. The 50% markup was originally intended to prevent this swapping, or at least discourage it except in cases where the player will REALLY value or need it.

Roadie

2015-08-15, 10:38 PM

The 50% markup was originally intended to prevent this swapping, or at least discourage it except in cases where the player will REALLY value or need it.

Sure, it discourages it, but what's the actual practical benefit to gameplay to do that?

I don't personally consider "most of the cloak, belt, and head slot magic items in the game never actually get used" to be a benefit, and I don't really see how a wibbly-wobbly thematic integrity thing counterbalances that.

I mean, let's consider boots of resistance. Why shouldn't it be a thing to have boots studded with crystal from deep underground that tap into the immortality of the world's endless geologic ages?

PsyBomb

2015-08-15, 10:48 PM

Sure, it discourages it, but what's the actual practical benefit to gameplay to do that?

I don't personally consider "most of the cloak, belt, and head slot magic items in the game never actually get used" to be a benefit, and I don't really see how a wibbly-wobbly thematic integrity thing counterbalances that.

I mean, let's consider boots of resistance. Why shouldn't it be a thing to have boots studded with crystal from deep underground that tap into the immortality of the world's endless geologic ages?

Never said I disagreed with you, I was just posting that side of the argument. Discussion is happening in the dark corners of the internet (otherwise known as Google chat rooms) as to just how we want to handle it. Most likely, the markup is going to be reduced by a fair bit. Possibly a sidebar about slots and design. Also possibly written in ink made from the tears of grognards, it remains to be seen. We've tossed around ideas ranging from the default 50% markup to "Free within the Big Six Slots" to the MIC solution.

Mithril Leaf

2015-08-15, 10:51 PM

I guess if the question were easy, it wouldn't be getting asked.

Anyway, the big argument for a markup when you swap slots is literally for slot integrity. Most magic item slots have a general theme to what is supposed to be there (the best example I have of this comes out of Akashic Mysteries, check out the chakras). You start getting issues with players who have a slot or two they don't like to use for whatever reason (such as a character with heavy Armor proficiency and their Wrist slot). Freely swapping where these effects go means you end up with things like Boots of Resistance, Bracers of Intellect, or a Headband of Flying. This starts to really come into effect with the Big Six and similar, effects that the game design assumes that you have in its base math.

Thus, the argument. The 50% markup was originally intended to prevent this swapping, or at least discourage it except in cases where the player will REALLY value or need it.

Also the MIC rules allowed you to toss the thematic benefits on top of existing items for free. Poisoners Gloves can also be Gloves of Dexterity for no additional cost.

AmberVael

2015-08-15, 11:08 PM

I guess if the question were easy, it wouldn't be getting asked.

Anyway, the big argument for a markup when you swap slots is literally for slot integrity. Most magic item slots have a general theme to what is supposed to be there (the best example I have of this comes out of Akashic Mysteries, check out the chakras). You start getting issues with players who have a slot or two they don't like to use for whatever reason (such as a character with heavy Armor proficiency and their Wrist slot). Freely swapping where these effects go means you end up with things like Boots of Resistance, Bracers of Intellect, or a Headband of Flying. This starts to really come into effect with the Big Six and similar, effects that the game design assumes that you have in its base math.

Thus, the argument. The 50% markup was originally intended to prevent this swapping, or at least discourage it except in cases where the player will REALLY value or need it.

Even if you accept this argument, it doesn't even seem to cover the items you guys have printed up. A carapace of natural armor? Super thematic. A vest or corset that increases resistance, instead of a cloak? Sure. These things aren't 'The Boots of Wise Sage' or something silly like that. You can maintain this integrity and have the stuff you have written up at normal costs.

PsyBomb

2015-08-15, 11:12 PM

Even if you accept this argument, it doesn't even seem to cover the items you guys have printed up. A carapace of natural armor? Super thematic. A vest or corset that increases resistance, instead of a cloak? Sure. These things aren't 'The Boots of Wise Sage' or something silly like that. You can maintain this integrity and have the stuff you have written up at normal costs.

See my next post after that one. When we decide on how exactly we want to do things, those items will be the first one to have their prices change.

Roadie

2015-08-15, 11:49 PM

Most likely, the markup is going to be reduced by a fair bit.

I still feel that having a markup at all will contribute to the belt/head/cloak/neck-items-get-ignored problem, because if there's a markup the only reason to seek out the more expensive version is if there's some specific item in the belt/head/cloak/neck slot that's worth effectively spending the extra markup cost. You get what I mean?

TiaC

2015-08-16, 01:20 AM

I still feel that having a markup at all will contribute to the belt/head/cloak/neck-items-get-ignored problem, because if there's a markup the only reason to seek out the more expensive version is if there's some specific item in the belt/head/cloak/neck slot that's worth effectively spending the extra markup cost. You get what I mean?

Yeah, if I'm spending an extra 3k gold for the off-slot item, then I'll only do this if the item I need in that slot is 3k cheaper than it should be. (There are some items essential enough for me to do this, but that's really just a sign that they're overpowered.)

I would also like to point out that the Innate Item Bonuses variant from Unchained has these bonuses be added to any item of the right slot for a non-marked-up price. (It has the problem of these additions not being optional, so that it doesn't really work, but that's another problem.)

Finally, let me point out that MIC actually combined two solutions to this issue, and either one would be a step forward. First, they exempted these items from the 50% markup for combining items. However, they also gave each of these items two or three associated slots. For example, a Ring of Protection could also be a robe or cloak of protection. This left them tied to slots, but still allowed for a bit of flexibility.

Edit: Let me just say that I really like most of the items in here, I especially like all the little references and bits of whimsy sprinkled throughout, like the Glass House (that you throw) or the Emet Tablet as a reference to the legend of the golem.

Edit2: Perhaps an extra Ki charm?

EldritchWeaver

2015-08-16, 08:55 AM

You have NO idea how hard it is to do good editing on a live doc, a million thanks wouldn't be enough for this help! Goes double from me, since most of the edits you pointed out were on stuff I am responsible for. Editing pass will probably be tonight.

Happy to help! Admittedly, this would have been easier for me, if I could have edited or at least commented on the doc directly. As much filling threads with typos is fun, it is very time consuming.

Another thing: I'm reading through the original PoW and noticed some errors there (although not many, which is nice to see). But seeing that PoW has never been updated or errated (at least I didn't see any), I feel some cognitive dissonance regarding the dealing with errors here. Does it make sense to mention my findings somewhere?

@Item slot discussion: SoP treats slots no longer special (meaning the silly examples are valid choices here), although you still pay more if you combine several effects in one item. While having some penalty for a core magic game might make sense, SoP-based campaigns should be exempted of this. Maybe include a note in the sidebar?

Vhaidara

2015-08-16, 08:57 AM

Another thing: I'm reading through the original PoW and noticed some errors there (although not many, which is nice to see). But seeing that PoW has never been updated or errated (at least I didn't see any), I feel some cognitive dissonance regarding the dealing with errors here. Does it make sense to mention my findings somewhere?

They mentioned they're going to wrap up PoW:E before they errata the first book.

Elricaltovilla

2015-08-16, 09:23 AM

Happy to help! Admittedly, this would have been easier for me, if I could have edited or at least commented on the doc directly. As much filling threads with typos is fun, it is very time consuming.

Another thing: I'm reading through the original PoW and noticed some errors there (although not many, which is nice to see). But seeing that PoW has never been updated or errated (at least I didn't see any), I feel some cognitive dissonance regarding the dealing with errors here. Does it make sense to mention my findings somewhere?

@Item slot discussion: SoP treats slots no longer special (meaning the silly examples are valid choices here), although you still pay more if you combine several effects in one item. While having some penalty for a core magic game might make sense, SoP-based campaigns should be exempted of this. Maybe include a note in the sidebar?

We are working on errata for PoW 1, assembling the list of stuff that needs fixed. I'm not 100% sure if we're going to open a thread or something to get fan's errata suggestions or not but hang on to what you have in case we do. We'll likely announce it in the PoW:E thread even if we don't put up a "Fix our Mistakes" thread. :smalltongue:

EldritchWeaver

2015-08-16, 09:33 AM

We are working on errata for PoW 1, assembling the list of stuff that needs fixed. I'm not 100% sure if we're going to open a thread or something to get fan's errata suggestions or not but hang on to what you have in case we do. We'll likely announce it in the PoW:E thread even if we don't put up a "Fix our Mistakes" thread. :smalltongue:

OK, I'm looking forward to it!

Now back to a different topic:

Something I noticed when looking at the maneuvers was that their DC was fixed, like in core magic. But if you use SoP as main casting system, it looks a bit strange, as the caster level defines the DC (10 + CL/2 + casting stat mod to be exact). So I'm wondering, if using SoP's way of handling DCs would work for the maneuvers or if it would break things.

Elricaltovilla

2015-08-16, 09:35 AM

OK, I'm looking forward to it!

Now back to a different topic:

Something I noticed when looking at the maneuvers was that their DC was fixed, like in core magic. But if you use SoP as main casting system, it looks a bit strange, as the caster level defines the DC (10 + CL/2 + casting stat mod to be exact). So I'm wondering, if using SoP's way of handling DCs would work for the maneuvers or if it would break things.

That is a question for Path of War, not Steelforge.

RedOndjage

2015-08-16, 04:51 PM

In the description of power charms, it mentions that they don't stack with identical charms. Is this across each individual slot in which you can have power charms, or across the whole character's gear. For instance, let's say my barbarian picks up two of the bracelets (occupying a single wrist slot), and a necklace. If he affixes one unyielding charm to each of those items, do they stack, granting him an increase of 3 DR? Or is it 2 DR since he has two separate gear slots filled with charms? Or is it only 1 DR since they don't stack across the whole character?

PsyBomb

2015-08-16, 05:31 PM

Tuvarkz

2015-08-16, 08:34 PM

One thought about the Forgelord: As of now, taking a single level dip into the PrC is just too good for any character that meets the prerequisites, esp one that won't suffer the 0.75 BAB growth too much, given that it gains other features on top of the class features it would gain as if it had taken a single level in its original class.
Gaining the class features as if taking a level in another class should be given at levels 2,3,4-The last level of the PrC is good enough to be taken by itself.

master4sword

2015-08-16, 11:09 PM

Edit: Oh yeah, and some more Animated Object CP abilities would be awesome. Bonus CP for having a completely immobilized Animated Object, say a section of wall or a door neither of which could move spaces both of which could still defend their immediate spaces. And access to the Swallow Whole ability for animated bags or animated bodies of liquids.
What? I like Constructs. Constructs are cool. :smallbiggrin:

As someone currently throwing animated objects at his players, I support this.

leonfenrir

2015-08-17, 02:57 AM

Hi Folks,
I've made some edits, and some larger changes. The biggest?

The off-slot items no longer have a mark up

There's been some really great discussions about this, both on the boards and between us. Ultimately, I think it's best to remove it.

Next, a few items have been added. The Deadman's Winder and the Swiftshot's Winder give some utility to crossbows.

Coming soon: The Mouse Servant should give budding construct-builders something to practice on, and Zombie Plaguewater should give you an easy way to remove any of those pesky villages that've been giving you trouble.

AmberVael

2015-08-17, 03:37 AM

Sounds like good news to me!

Since you've made some changes since my full review, I feel like this is probably the moment to recall my points uncertainty and critique that don't seem to be addressed yet.

Spell Echoing (Weapon)
This one is the one I find most problematic and alarming. I read it once, came to a conclusion, then read it again and wasn't sure. What is this actually supposed to do? Is it meant to let you cast spells faster? Does it let you effectively double your spell slots? Both? Its kind of a mess of implication and uncertainty, and if it does double your slots like it seems to imply, it is crazy powerful.

Skinning (Weapon Enchantment)
Putting aside its questionable worth, there's a gap in its mechanics- it calls for a Heal check to negate the effect. Which is fine and all, except that there is no existing use of Heal that will cover this, and Heal has no standard action time, ranging anywhere from one standard action to 8 hours. So how long does this take?

Morphing (Weapon Enchantment)
So, the morphing enchantment lets you reshape a weapon to be any weapon of the same type. Cool. However, it contains this clause:
"In addition, any feats which apply to only a specific weapon type (such as Weapon Focus) function for a Morphing weapon regardless of its shape."
With it written as is, a morphing dagger can benefit from Weapon Focus (Greatsword). This could be the intent, but with Morphing's restriction on same type, I wonder. With that previous restriction it would make more sense that a dagger could benefit from any feat that worked for a weapon of its type, rather than any feat that applied to a weapon.

Emet Tablet
I agree with thisisacat that this is a cool little mythological nod, but I feel that its combination of limitations restrains its potential use far too much. Its a relatively expensive (for the uses you'll get out of it, at least), one shot, monster type limited item. This is not something I ever see myself picking up, and worse, if I found it I feel like my response would be "lets wait until we hit something really difficult" and then in typical RPG fashion the game will be over before that something shows up and it'll never get used.
I think something about this needs to give way before it will be worth printing. My inclination would be to make it have more than one use, or at least have a much more long lasting effect (a tablet that takes control of a construct would certainly be more appealing even as a one use item, though it would warrant a higher cost).

TiaC

2015-08-17, 05:49 AM

I'm very glad to hear that you have removed the markup from the basic items. Thank you.

Here's a bunch of thoughts and clarifications.

Perhaps the Emet Tablet could act to help destroy a golem and then somehow allow you to (temporarily or not) recreate it later before crumbling? (In the legend emet would animate the golem but changing it to met would destroy it.)

The Helm of Lost Flesh could use clarification that you use your Con-based fort save rather than your Cha-based one. (While I found it pretty clear, I can easily see players forgetting this.)

Does the Poison Inverting Mask work if the user is immune to poison?

What happens if I poke someone with a full Toxin Drinking Needle? Does it still remove the poison even if it can't store it?

So, Chaos Root Paste causes 60 stat-switches over the next hour? Do they reset after that time?

Can Manabane Gel be removed? It looks like an effective way of removing cursed items.

Does Soulvenom Infusion prevent True resurrection when it's performed without a body?

Deadman’s Winder is cool, but how is that attack roll resolved? I predict that people will try carrying dozens of crossbows full of magical bolts.

Is refilling a Poisoner’s Sheath a standard action per dose or total?

Bearded feels like a little too much of a no-brainer for any weapon wielded by a dwarf and a little weak for non-dwarves. (Similarly, Exploding can be really strong on a goblin

Burning et al. are very nasty in any situation when players know the fight is coming. Since they're fixed-cost weapons, for only 1.6k, a player can get +4d6 damage for the entire combat. This is rather unbalancing at low levels.

Morphing is likely to cause problems with feats like Whip Mastery that can only be applied to one weapon.

I share the questions on Spell Echoing, and add that it seems to allow for personal spells to be applied to enemies. This is an issue with spells like Skinsend.

Is Spiritbound meant to allow for +6 weapons?

I'm guessing that Other Item Enhancements don't require a +1 to be added?

If you are within 60' of the point chosen with a Remote instrument, do you benefit?

Sayt

2015-08-17, 06:54 PM

Poison inverting mask is very cool, and very 'Bane'. Does increased HP from Con poisons count as temporary HP?

From the "two saves" clause at the end of the item, I'm guessing that the target takes two "ticks" of damage? (For instance 2d4 damage from wyvern poison?) If the poison normally causes drain, does the mask's hangover also cause drain? Do you continue to take ticks of damage after those initially from that poison for the normal duration?

Swiftshot's winder is cool. Could we perhaps get a price to construct and a DC (I'm guessing C. Clockwork or K. Engineering?)?

RedOndjage

2015-08-17, 07:19 PM

I almost died laughing when I saw the "Safety Belt". My old First Sergeant would be pleased.

PsyBomb

2015-08-17, 10:14 PM

Alright, just dropped a couple of items that I need a LOT of feedback on for Steelforge. Look for the Psy-Sphere Synergy Stave and the Gloves of the Akashic Sphere.

137beth

2015-08-18, 12:20 AM

Is this book going to have random treasure charts? I like having them, even though I know a lot of people don't.

Nyaa

2015-08-18, 01:21 AM

Alright, just dropped a couple of items that I need a LOT of feedback on for Steelforge. Look for the Psy-Sphere Synergy Stave and the Gloves of the Akashic Sphere.

Which classes and class combinations are intended audience of these?

Staff: "they may spend PP equal to their character level". Should be spherecaster level and allow to spend PP over your ML limit. Or don't allow. If your psionics is weak, you can't augment strong sphere magic.
Otherwise it would cost psion 19 / spherecaster 1 20 PP to cast his 1CL talent, while for psion 1 / spherecaster 1 it would be 2 PP for exactly same effect. It opens (ab)use of voluntary lowering your CL, but IMO it's better than ability scaling in price for no reason other than gaining levels.

Extra Anchovies

2015-08-18, 01:26 AM

Does the Power Charm of Changing increase the number of veils you change per use of veilshifting, as per the standard rules for that class feature? I think that it shouldn't, given the price.

Also, the usefulness of the Power Charms is all over the place. Resistance, Precision, and Striking are pretty insane for their cost, Mana, Changing, Adamant, Phobia, Surging, Unyielding, and Versatility all seem fair (although Changing is too strong if it lets you swap out more veils), and Disabling is, to be honest, pretty terrible.

Alright, just dropped a couple of items that I need a LOT of feedback on for Steelforge. Look for the Psy-Sphere Synergy Stave and the Gloves of the Akashic Sphere.

I don't like the Gloves at all. They make a Vizier 1/Sphere-caster 19 with Extra Essence much, much stronger than a Sphere-caster 20, enough so to be a Bad ThingTM. I don't see there being any way to balance the item effectively, and think that it should be removed or have its properties completely changed.

The Stave is pretty nice. The exchange rate does feel off, though; you don't get enough from your Power Points and you get too much from you Spell Points. A Psion 20 with Int 30 has 443 PP (343 base, 100 bonus); an Incanter 20 with Int 30 and three drawbacks (a reasonable number to expect) has 40 SP (20 base, 10 Int, 10 bonus). From there we can get a rough exchange rate of 11 PP for 1 SP at level 20. Rounding it down to 10:1 at level 20, maybe the staff could just use that exchange rate?

There are also a few other tweaks that I think would make it run more smoothly, and I've included those along with the exchange-rate alteration below.

Whenever the user casts magic from that Sphere, they may spend a number of PP equal to half their sphere caster level, minimum 1. If they do, they count as having expended a Spell Point on that spell for any purpose of their choosing. Alternately, they may apply any appropriate Metapsionic feat they know to it by paying twice its regular augment cost (minimum four PP) and expending their psionic focus.

Whenever the user manifests a Power from that school, they may expend a Spell Point. If they do, they treat the power as if it had been augmented by a number of PP equal to half their sphere caster level, and they may spend power points normally to further augment the power. Additionally, they may count as having expended Psionic Focus for any one purpose applying to that Power.

TiaC

2015-08-18, 01:32 AM

The Psy-Sphere Synergy Stave seems really powerful. Applying Metapsionic feats to spheres allows for some very powerful options. (Do you have to expend Psionic focus to do this?) However, turning Spell points into free augments might be even worse. For either 2 feats or a one-level dip, you can get a spell pool equal to your manifesting modifier. That's a lot of PP for very little cost.

I also worry that this item opens up SoP/Psi builds that would not otherwise work. They would be too dependent on this item and crippled without it.

Nyaa

2015-08-18, 03:35 AM

Versatility all seem fair

I'm probably overvaluing Bane, but there gotta be a reason it's not on default mind blade list, right? Or a reason for that list to exist at all.

TiaC

2015-08-18, 05:49 AM

What exactly does "they do not stack with identical power charms" mean? Some of them would have no further effect if stacked, so it doesn't matter for those (Adamant, resistance). Some have a clear way in which they would stack that this clearly denies(Changing, Disabling, Phobia, Precision, Unyielding). Some aren't quite as clear-cut, but still seem like it could be figured out (Surging [wearing multiple still doesn't give multiple uses], Versatility [you can only add one property to the list {one total, or one weapon and one armor?}].

However, Mana and Striking are both activated items, so would it mean that you can only benefit from one per day? If you can use more than one per day, the charm of Mana is probably too good, because you can just charge up a whole bunch of them and then have amazing endurance by just switching them out over the day.

EldritchWeaver

2015-08-18, 06:08 AM

Some errors I found with the new stuff:

"Alternately, they may apply any appropriate Metapsionic feat they know to it by paying twice its regular augment cost (minimum four PP)." "Alternately" instead of "Alternatively".

"Alternately, they may count as having expended Psionic Focus for any one purpose applying to that Power." "Alternately" instead of "Alternatively".

Regarding the mage catcher nets: It looks a bit off to me that the defining feature of the lesser variant is "You can't teleport", which is negated by "I can fly". Granted, it includes "entangling" condition with the casting penalties, but maybe I'm spoiled by SoP. There you can have a spell ward, which requires an MSD check to go off. That could be a middle ground for a third item, before you use the full antimagic stop.

PsyBomb

2015-08-18, 06:17 AM

Wow, thanks for all the feedback. I'll be pulling down the two items I just put up, pending revision. Well, I will once I'm no longer posting from my phone. New versions will be back up in a day or two

Elricaltovilla

2015-08-18, 07:55 AM

Poison inverting mask is very cool, and very 'Bane'. Does increased HP from Con poisons count as temporary HP?

From the "two saves" clause at the end of the item, I'm guessing that the target takes two "ticks" of damage? (For instance 2d4 damage from wyvern poison?) If the poison normally causes drain, does the mask's hangover also cause drain? Do you continue to take ticks of damage after those initially from that poison for the normal duration?

The HP increase currently does not count as temporary HP (although I might change that). Yes, it's supposed to represent two ticks of damage, as if you'd failed the save twice. If the duration of the poison is still ongoing when you remove the mask, then you would continue to take damage.

stack

2015-08-18, 11:44 AM

Angelwing cloak - you may detect as lawful good, but won't the bloody feathers and dripping blood raise questions? Especially when anyone the blood is applied to suddenly detects as evil? How do multiple 'detect as...' effects stack, highest CL wins?

Magecatcher net is interesting. Have to look into net-centric builds. Any chance of applying the same abilities to a lasso? I'm thinking of the divine lariat archetype for the mageknight.

Power/refinement charms to add spell points, shadow pool, uses of emotions, rounds of psionics, etc would be good for the SoP tie-in. Maybe a power charm to reduce the backlash chance of forbidden lore by a few percent. Something to let you roll twice for wild magic would be unique as well.

Charming armor seems expensive for its DC. Even +5 light armor is only DC 16, which isn't impressive by the time you can afford a +7 equivalent piece of armor. Maybe a flat cost instead?

Shining - once a day with a weak DC? Maybe a flat cost, never as a +X bonus. Even then, it would have to be cheap.

Spell echoing seems really nasty for certain builds. Like a staff magus with spell echoing/spell storing on each end of their staff. Not sure if its too powerful, but I can't imagine a magus or eldritch knight not wanting it.

Still puzzled on the usage limit for cannibalize construct. You have limited constructs and can't make more for two minutes, what possible need is there for a use/day limit on the ability?

"Construct Army A manufacturer of 20th level has made an immense breathrough: he has learned to make and control multiple constructs. As a standard action, he may make his first construct in an encounter. Every additional construct thereafter takes a full-round action. The duration expires on all astral constructs simultaneously - thus the countdown begins with the first construct’s duration."
What does this do? Is it allowing you to make constructs without dipping into your uses per day? If so, it needs to be clear on that point. If its just a casting speed reduction, I would rather see that much earlier.

On that note, at level 1 a 1-round manifesting time on astral construct for 1 rnd duration is terrible, making your core ability fairly lousy until you get a few levels. I would rather see some kind of extending ability at first level and at 5th give a reduction in casting time (full round instead of 1 round, maybe later scale to standard).

Axiomite - total veil = passion (which you don't get) + general, correct? A chart listing veils/level may be beneficial here.

Abnegation seems great for a cohort, less so for a player since your job is to hand out all your useful features at the beginning of the day, then just shuffle essence around between them as needed.

Inevitable - "Each takes the form of a Veil affecting the piece of equipment, which is
treated as though it has Essence invested equal to the Bonded equipment can be Bound normally." - I think there is a word or punctuation missing here, or else I just can't read today.

Idea for a SoP item - taking my suggestion for an item to act as a long-term target for teleportation beacon, the same could be done with a tattoo.

khadgar567

2015-08-18, 11:50 AM

Angelwing cloak - you may detect as lawful good, but won't the bloody feathers and dripping blood raise questions? Especially when anyone the blood is applied to suddenly detects as evil? How do multiple 'detect as...' effects stack, highest CL wins?

small idea use it with cloak of fight into red wings with dripping problem( if you want add one more cloak to mix)

PsyBomb

2015-08-18, 12:11 PM

Power/refinement charms to add spell points, shadow pool, uses of emotions, rounds of psionics, etc would be good for the SoP tie-in. Maybe a power charm to reduce the backlash chance of forbidden lore by a few percent. Something to let you roll twice for wild magic would be unique as well.

Axiomite - total veil = passion (which you don't get) + general, correct? A chart listing veils/level may be beneficial here.

Abnegation seems great for a cohort, less so for a player since your job is to hand out all your useful features at the beginning of the day, then just shuffle essence around between them as needed.

Inevitable - "Each takes the form of a Veil affecting the piece of equipment, which is
treated as though it has Essence invested equal to the Bonded equipment can be Bound normally." - I think there is a word or punctuation missing here, or else I just can't read today.

Idea for a SoP item - taking my suggestion for an item to act as a long-term target for teleportation beacon, the same could be done with a tattoo.

I'll just speak on what I know from here.

I am working on Spheres charms (as well as brushing up wording on the Charms in general). They will go up once I have at least a half-decent one for each of the classes. Debated doing Refinement ones for each Sphere as well, but that's WAY on the back burner. I have laser cannons to write first (no, really).

Axiomite stuff: I'll put the chart together, good catch on potential confusion. As for Abnegation... let's say they're stronger than they look. Significantly so, they are the reason the Axiomite only gains 15 essence instead of the 20 I'd originally envisioned. Takes a ton of juggling and precise situational awareness, though. If you take one as a Cohort/Paramour and just use it to buff you, the guy will die fairly fast.

On the Teleportation beacon... that's a funny story. Lord_Gareth had envisioned such an item before the idea of doing Spheres items came up. It's up for debate which set of prerequisites we will be going for.

stack

2015-08-18, 12:26 PM

Brainstorming for SoP charms, probably redundant with ideas you've had:
Armorist - increase bound/summoned equipment duration? Make a little charm of your bound weapon/armor that lets you use that one piece w/ unlimited duration?
Elementalist - treat level as X levels higher for favored element bonus, elemental movement bonus
Eliciter - gain additional uses of hypnotism or limited use/day emotions
Fey Adept - more shadowstuff or boost shadowmark penalty by 1
Hedgewitch - extra uses of tradition power or secret usable 3+1/2 level per day
Incanter - uhm...extra uses of specialization abilities usable 3+casting mod/day?
Mageknight - increase resist magic by +X
Shifter - quick transformation X/day as swift instead of move?
Soulweaver - extra bound nexus. Channel stuff is already there for other classes.
Symbiat - additional rnds of psionics, maybe allow a forced reroll vs battlefield relay x/day?
Thaumaturge - extra invocation uses, delay backlash x/rnds, occult knowledge boost

Extra Anchovies

2015-08-18, 01:29 PM

Ectoplasmic Manufacturer loses the ability to form an astral suit, which means they can't access any customizations. Why is this even an Aegis archetype?

This may sound a little weird, but I think the Ectoplasmic Manufacturer would be a lot better off as a Tactician archetype that functions like a psionic version of the Summoner (minus the Eidolon, because we have Ectopic Artisan for that). I typed up my ideas in a google document (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1K4imy2oOwJRMRMwUgthv507kNv8ZZQMki7Mo-cECKM4/edit?usp=sharing); let me know what you think.

Kaidinah

2015-08-18, 08:50 PM

The point where that actually becomes price-effective is more-or-less intentional. It is right around the point when most TWF characters start seriously upgrading the offhand.

Incidentally, sorry for not actually typing this the first time. Somehow missed it.It's cool. I didn't even know you missed it since I didn't see this post until now.

Though what did you think of what I had to say about Cushioning, Morphing, Skinning, and Folding?

Kiton2

2015-08-19, 07:13 AM

A few things on charms (I like a lot of Steelforge so far!)

-Is there any sort of point to the Aegis Adamantine Charm? Mithral I could see a use out of; lower the armor type/penalties, but Aegis already obtains a decent amount of DR/-, and as far as I know, damage resistances do not stack. As-Is it certainly does not appear to

-With all the various other "created" weapon styles (Akashic, Aegis Ranged Crystal Customization, "Call Weaponry" maybe, and I'm sure there's others) would it be possible for the "one weapon or armor ability charm" to work for more than just mindblades? All these other weapons/armor are in a similar position and would get a similar bonus out of it.

stack

2015-08-19, 09:45 AM

Since we are including SoP stuff, it might be worth mentioning how the new materials play with the creation sphere. Ironwood should default to being usable with the base sphere, since it is plant-based material. Glass-steel seems like a mineral, so maybe falls under stone? I would probably have it placed at CL 10 with expanded materials, seems like the appropriate level for it, since it is more valuable than steel/iron but I wouldn't put it on the level of mithral and cold iron.

MilleniaAntares

2015-08-19, 09:56 PM

This might be a bit niche, but what about some stuff that interacts with sacred/profane damage from Path of War?

Like a weapon enhancement that gives +1dX sacred damage, similar to Flaming? Or a sacred resistance armor enhancement, for the fiends who want to lay the smackdown on Silver Crane paladins?

Just a random thought.

Sayt

2015-08-19, 10:50 PM

The HP increase currently does not count as temporary HP (although I might change that). Yes, it's supposed to represent two ticks of damage, as if you'd failed the save twice. If the duration of the poison is still ongoing when you remove the mask, then you would continue to take damage.

Okay, this doesn't seem to work like I thought it did, I'ma throw together a timeline to exlpain how I now interpret it to work:

Round 1: As a standard action insert Dragon Bile, gaining an untyped +1d3 Strength (maybe grant Alchemical Type? Seems apropriate)
Round 61: The Banefit (Pun so intended) Dissipates, and the user takes 2d3 strength damage without save and is exposed to Dragon Bile poison.
Round 62-7: Each of these rounds the user takes a fort save or 1d3 strength damage with save to cure as normal.

is this correct?

Also, is there a chance we can include a clause that inverts Unconsciousness, to "Cannot be put too sleep or be knocked out?"

Also, what happens if you insert another dose of Dragon Bile on round 59?

Edit: I really like this item, but I'm not sure I'd ever actually use it: The unhealability of the damage from this item means it's probably only going to be used once per day, or every other day. The bonuses from the item are minimal, only a few of the poisons are likely to increase any of your ability modifiers, and the 1 tick up, 2+ ticks down mean that in the long term it's a losing proposition, with a low chance of gaining a useful benefit versus a high chance of getting screwed over.

My suggestions: increase the bonus to two ticks. Give a save against each automatic tick taken on turn 61, without the benefits of any bonuses granted by the mask. Don't allow poison immune creatures to benefit from the mask.

Also: Are there any plans for a PRC based on this item, a la Gravity Slime master? Casue if there aren't, I might have to get the creation cogitators rolling...

Elricaltovilla

2015-08-20, 01:25 PM

Okay, this doesn't seem to work like I thought it did, I'ma throw together a timeline to exlpain how I now interpret it to work:

Round 1: As a standard action insert Dragon Bile, gaining an untyped +1d3 Strength (maybe grant Alchemical Type? Seems apropriate)
Round 61: The Banefit (Pun so intended) Dissipates, and the user takes 2d3 strength damage without save and is exposed to Dragon Bile poison.
Round 62-7: Each of these rounds the user takes a fort save or 1d3 strength damage with save to cure as normal.

is this correct?

Also, is there a chance we can include a clause that inverts Unconsciousness, to "Cannot be put too sleep or be knocked out?"

Also, what happens if you insert another dose of Dragon Bile on round 59?

Edit: I really like this item, but I'm not sure I'd ever actually use it: The unhealability of the damage from this item means it's probably only going to be used once per day, or every other day. The bonuses from the item are minimal, only a few of the poisons are likely to increase any of your ability modifiers, and the 1 tick up, 2+ ticks down mean that in the long term it's a losing proposition, with a low chance of gaining a useful benefit versus a high chance of getting screwed over.

My suggestions: increase the bonus to two ticks. Give a save against each automatic tick taken on turn 61, without the benefits of any bonuses granted by the mask. Don't allow poison immune creatures to benefit from the mask.

Also: Are there any plans for a PRC based on this item, a la Gravity Slime master? Casue if there aren't, I might have to get the creation cogitators rolling...

Sorry to be getting to this so late, but let me see what I can do to help clear some stuff up.

I'm inclined to allow you to stave off the auto-damage so long as you continue to dose yourself with the same poison (a la venom), so if on Round 59 you insert another dose of Dragon Bile, you'd continue to have +1d3 STR and you'd delay the damage for another 10 minutes (60 Rounds), although that would require specific wording. I'll tweak the numbers on the mask a bit to make it more appealing, but originally I wanted it to be a risk to use.

There's no plans for a PRC based around this item, although if you want to Bane it up be my guest.

Sayt

2015-08-20, 02:21 PM

Oh, I certainly understand the Risk/Reward High/Crash dynamic, I'm just not sure the reward is great enough to justify the risk.

TiaC

2015-08-20, 04:07 PM

Sorry to be getting to this so late, but let me see what I can do to help clear some stuff up.

I'm inclined to allow you to stave off the auto-damage so long as you continue to dose yourself with the same poison (a la venom), so if on Round 59 you insert another dose of Dragon Bile, you'd continue to have +1d3 STR and you'd delay the damage for another 10 minutes (60 Rounds), although that would require specific wording. I'll tweak the numbers on the mask a bit to make it more appealing, but originally I wanted it to be a risk to use.

There's no plans for a PRC based around this item, although if you want to Bane it up be my guest.

As I asked a little up-thread, how does the mask interact with poison immunity? Does it prevent both the increase and the damage, only one, or neither?

Ninjaxenomorph

2015-08-20, 05:21 PM

Maybe it cuts through poison immunity?

PsyBomb

2015-08-21, 07:59 PM

Alright, running this revision past the thread to see if it is in the right general power level before putting it on the doc. Revised version of the Sphere-Akasha item

Gloves of the Akashic Sphere
Aura Moderate Universal; CL 5th
Price 5,000gp; Slot Hands; Weight 1 lb
The material from which these fine gloves are woven defies all attempt at identification, and looking closely at them leaves one with faint a headache as the colors defy identification as well. Each pair comes attuned to one Sphere of magic. In order to use them, the wearer must Bind them to the Hands chakra (following all normal rules). When bound this way, it has two benefits for the user. First, the wearer may spend a Spell point to treat any one essence receptacle as though it were filled to maximum capacity with Essence until the beginning of their next turn. Second, the wearer may take four points of Essence burn to recover a Spell Point. Essence burn taken this way does not recover until the wearer rests for eight hours.

CONSTRUCTION
Requirements Craft Wondrous Item, must have access to the attuned Sphere, must have an Essence pool of four or more; Cost 2,500gp

Ssalarn

2015-08-21, 08:11 PM

PsyBomb

2015-08-21, 08:53 PM

I would equalize the exchange. If it's 4 burn for 1 spell point, then 1 spell point should get you up to 4 (stacking) essence, maximum of your current capacity.

I can dig that. Could even just say it is four temporary Essence that lasts the turn.

Ssalarn

2015-08-21, 08:53 PM

I can dig that. Could even just say it is four temporary Essence that lasts the turn.

That would definitely work!

Extra Anchovies

2015-08-21, 08:59 PM

It's probably worth adding something saying that the four temporary essence can't be used to power the Gloves, because it's very likely that there already is or eventually will be an effect that triggers when you expend or recover a spell point which should not be infinitely loopable.

Ssalarn

2015-08-21, 09:01 PM

stack

2015-08-21, 09:23 PM

If the loop is closed then it's a very interesting item. Not sure right off on what kind of build could really make use of it though. It isn't worth investing in one system when based on another just for this effect, but it would be nice flexibility if you already have both in significant proportions. The hand bind is a bigger cost than the gold for an akasha user.

Extra Anchovies

2015-08-21, 11:35 PM

Good call.

Glad to help :smallbiggrin:

If the loop is closed then it's a very interesting item. Not sure right off on what kind of build could really make use of it though. It isn't worth investing in one system when based on another just for this effect, but it would be nice flexibility if you already have both in significant proportions. The hand bind is a bigger cost than the gold for an akasha user.

As it is now, it's much better for Akasha-focused characters who're dipping SoP - a 1-level Incanter dip with a can get you 4+stat spell points (1 base, 1 from taking a drawback [Magical Signs, anyone?], 2 from taking Extra Spell Points as your bonus feat), which is pretty significant, but a 1-level Vizier dip can't power the gloves even with Extra Essence, and you'd need four levels of Vizier to have enough essence to power the gloves once.

137beth

2015-08-22, 01:30 AM

Is this book going to have random treasure charts? I like having them, even though I know a lot of people don't.

Has the answer not been decided yet?

PsyBomb

2015-08-22, 03:04 PM

Has the answer not been decided yet?

Not yet decided, and won't be until a few other things are ironed out. If it comes, it will be near the very end of the development cycle. Remaking the entire chart every time someone adds a new item is a bit of a pain.

Updated version of the Gloves has been placed into the Playtest document. I've also removed the need to Bind the item for now, as well as some legacy wording. Might add the requirement back in, or add an effect if you Bind it.

EDIT: new version of the Staff:

Psi-Sphere Synergy Stave
Aura Moderate Universal; CL 5th
Price 8,000 gp; Slot none; Weight 5 lbs
This staff was originally created by a grand master of the Mind sphere, intending to help the two halves of his discipline support one another. It is tall, about six feet in length, with a core made of crystal and a Psicrystal setting at one end. Each is attuned to one Sphere of magic and one Psionic Discipline. In order to use its true powers, the wielder must have access to that sphere and have a power known of that discipline.

Whenever the user casts magic from that Sphere, they may spend PP equal to half of their Spherecaster level. If they do, they count as having expended a Spell Point on that spell for a purpose of their choice. Whenever the user manifests a Power from that school, they may expend a Spell Point. If they do, they gain temporary PP equal to half of their manifester level which may only be used to augment that power. Unused points generated this way fade immediately after the power is manifested.

CONSTRUCTION
Requirements Craft Wondrous Item, must have access to the attuned Sphere and a power of at least 3rd level of the attuned Discipline; Cost 4,000gp

tekevil

2015-08-24, 08:20 PM

I think the Twinned property is both too complicated and a bit under powered for what it does.

I much preferred the original version from back when this was a Path of War side project where you could pull a second weapon out of a weapon that had the twinned property. That one was simple and kept you only the cost of a +1 enchantment behind a 2 handed fighter unlike the current version which keeps you a +1 enhancement and about 8k gold behind a 2 handed weapon user.

In short I think the problems with the Twinned Enchantment are
-Too expensive
-Too complicated

PsyBomb

2015-08-25, 07:00 PM

Just got through doing a major editing pass. Warsong Instruments changed significantly due to feedback, losing the BAB bonus and clearing up confusion in wording (plus getting MUCH cheaper).

In other news, Slime Master had ability DCs clarified, Soulvenom Infusion now accounts for resurrection that doesn't require a body, and the Incinerator Cannon has been added. Axiom resist bonuses from shield investment got buffed. Mostly grammar and punctuation other than that.

Check it out! More is always coming, this is just what I caught up with today.

stack

2015-08-25, 07:18 PM

Angelwing cloak - you may detect as lawful good, but won't the bloody feathers and dripping blood raise questions? Especially when anyone the blood is applied to suddenly detects as evil? How do multiple 'detect as...' effects stack, highest CL wins?

Magecatcher net is interesting. Have to look into net-centric builds. Any chance of applying the same abilities to a lasso? I'm thinking of the divine lariat archetype for the mageknight.
...

Charming armor seems expensive for its DC. Even +5 light armor is only DC 16, which isn't impressive by the time you can afford a +7 equivalent piece of armor. Maybe a flat cost instead?

Shining - once a day with a weak DC? Maybe a flat cost, never as a +X bonus. Even then, it would have to be cheap.

Spell echoing seems really nasty for certain builds. Like a staff magus with spell echoing/spell storing on each end of their staff. Not sure if its too powerful, but I can't imagine a magus or eldritch knight not wanting it.

Still puzzled on the usage limit for cannibalize construct. You have limited constructs and can't make more for two minutes, what possible need is there for a use/day limit on the ability?

"Construct Army A manufacturer of 20th level has made an immense breathrough: he has learned to make and control multiple constructs. As a standard action, he may make his first construct in an encounter. Every additional construct thereafter takes a full-round action. The duration expires on all astral constructs simultaneously - thus the countdown begins with the first construct’s duration."
What does this do? Is it allowing you to make constructs without dipping into your uses per day? If so, it needs to be clear on that point. If its just a casting speed reduction, I would rather see that much earlier.

On that note, at level 1 a 1-round manifesting time on astral construct for 1 rnd duration is terrible, making your core ability fairly lousy until you get a few levels. I would rather see some kind of extending ability at first level and at 5th give a reduction in casting time (full round instead of 1 round, maybe later scale to standard).
...

I don't think I have seen a response to my previous comments. I edited out the parts Psybomb covered, I believe.

Kaidinah

2015-08-25, 08:08 PM

Probably late on this, but I really like the changes to Gravity Slime Master. The Slime Guardian got considerably beefier since I last checked. I do have some concerns and questions though.

The 5th level Impact ability is a 1 minute paralysis, which in itself is very mighty. At the same time, every time they use Launch Gravity Slime, they send out 3 of these 1 minute paralysis slimes, and can do this 5 times per encounter. If targeting one person, any of these 3 that miss can also whip around and try again alongside the next 3 you send out. This is also besides the fact that you have already Weapon Slimed your entire party's weapons and arrows and have a slime guardian also distributing Impact. Even as a fort save, with that much of it going around, failed saves will probably be happening often.

Paralysis seems like a very large jump in power from Slow, which was just 1 level ago. I would suggest finding a new status effect, and not one that allows someone to be coup de graced. Also, try not to make it so much better than energy stun (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/psionic-powers/e/energy-stun), which is a pretty darn good psionic power with a similar role.

Ninjaxenomorph

2015-08-25, 08:18 PM

Nauseated maybe?

PsyBomb

2015-08-26, 09:45 PM

Nauseated maybe?

Looking into this. 1-minute stun at level 10 is a hair early, yes, though I'm not sure if I'm going to change the status or just make the duration one round instead.

In other, semi-related stuff...

Alright, so I'm debating a couple of points and wanted to see if I could grab some quick feedback. So, here I go...

1) Potential shift to Forgelord's prior-class boost to 2/3/4 instead of 1/3/5. I've gotten the feedback a lot that basically anyone with Craft Wondrous will dip one level essentially for free, which is a concern.

2) Would a Legendary Item that originally appears as a Repeating Crossbow ever be used? I'm cooking one up, but I don't want the price of entry to be THAT far out of people's way... but I also really don't want to write for firearms.

3) I want to create a Spheres-Initiator crossover item like I did for the other subsystems. I'm just /really/ lost in finding a point where they can intersect. Looking for possible ideas for places to start.

4) More of a general question, Is there anything you've seen and thought "there should be an item for that...", but couldn't find one? It's what we're here for, so fire away.

Thanks in advance for any responses here.

Extra Anchovies

2015-08-26, 10:01 PM

Looking into this. 1-minute stun at level 10 is a hair early, yes, though I'm not sure if I'm going to change the status or just make the duration one round instead.

It would be better to make it last 1 round.

1) Potential shift to Forgelord's prior-class boost to 2/3/4 instead of 1/3/5. I've gotten the feedback a lot that basically anyone with Craft Wondrous will dip one level essentially for free, which is a concern.

Nothing that gives +1 level of existing class features should do so at 1st level. Advancement at 2/3/4 would be much better than 1/3/5.

2) Would a Legendary Item that originally appears as a Repeating Crossbow ever be used? I'm cooking one up, but I don't want the price of entry to be THAT far out of people's way... but I also really don't want to write for firearms.

When was the last time that you used a repeating crossbow in one of your games? The only time I've ever used one was back in middle school, before I realized that rapid reload existed.

If you're going to make an exotic legendary weapon, make it a good one. Which you can't, really, because there aren't any Paizo exotic weapons worth using (except maybe the Falcata for 20th-level fighters). The only times I use exotic weapons are when I get the feat for free, because they took the only 3.5 exotic weapon worth paying for (the spiked chain) and gutted it.

3) I want to create a Spheres-Initiator crossover item like I did for the other subsystems. I'm just /really/ lost in finding a point where they can intersect. Looking for possible ideas for places to start.

An idea that springs to mind is being able to spend a spell point to spontaneously recover some maneuvers (1 level of maneuvers per sphere caster level, maybe), but that would be much better handled with a feat. It would have to be a spheres -> initiating item, though, because any initiating -> spheres item is inherently overpowered due to A) maneuvers being accessible via feats and B) the unlimited-use nature of initiating compared to the limited-use nature of Spheres.

Oh, I know! Maybe you could sacrifice one of your daily maneuvers readied slots for a spell point!
Except even that wouldn't work, because it would break hard on a Mystic.

Ninjaxenomorph

2015-08-26, 10:22 PM

I've only used a repeating crossbow on an inquisitor for PFS. Mostly because they got automatic proficiency and I wanted to use it, but still.

Anlashok

2015-08-26, 10:49 PM

Which you can't, really, because there aren't any Paizo exotic weapons worth using

Dunno, I see the flying talon, branch spear, curve blade, minotaur double crossbow, chainsaw, most of the energy rifles and the plasma thrower all get some decent mileage out of them.

Kaidinah

2015-08-27, 01:42 AM

Looking into this. 1-minute stun at level 10 is a hair early, yes, though I'm not sure if I'm going to change the status or just make the duration one round instead.It's a 1 minute paralyze on the Slime Master right now actually. I was just comparing it to energy stun to give a power comparison, since its an AOE power that deals more damage, but has a much weaker status effect. Similar role overall.

Alright, so I'm debating a couple of points and wanted to see if I could grab some quick feedback. So, here I go...

1) Potential shift to Forgelord's prior-class boost to 2/3/4 instead of 1/3/5. I've gotten the feedback a lot that basically anyone with Craft Wondrous will dip one level essentially for free, which is a concern.

2) Would a Legendary Item that originally appears as a Repeating Crossbow ever be used? I'm cooking one up, but I don't want the price of entry to be THAT far out of people's way... but I also really don't want to write for firearms.

3) I want to create a Spheres-Initiator crossover item like I did for the other subsystems. I'm just /really/ lost in finding a point where they can intersect. Looking for possible ideas for places to start.

4) More of a general question, Is there anything you've seen and thought "there should be an item for that...", but couldn't find one? It's what we're here for, so fire away.

Thanks in advance for any responses here.
1. This is a very fair concern. I think that moving it to 2/3/4 is a fine idea. Even without the additional level, the 5th level bonuses of the class are worth it.

2. I think it would be used as long as it had a way to circumvent a few of the crossbow flaws. A Forgemaster gets past its Exotic Weapon Proficiency flaw with attunement, and there are a few classes that come with Repeating crossbow proficiency. The biggest flaw, which I think the Crossbow should address is the damage. If the damage is made viable, the players will come.

3. I think the point of interaction should be the action economy. Spheres competes with Initiating action-wise.

4. Got nothing for now.

TiaC

2015-08-27, 02:01 AM

3. I think the point of interaction should be the action economy. Spheres competes with Initiating action-wise.

Perhaps some way of using maneuvers to maintain Concentration-length sphere abilities?

khadgar567

2015-08-27, 02:39 AM

really like to see repeating crossbow able to make rabid fire bolts( 10 bolts in 2 seconds( maybe in one turn)) is always good for any ranged build

stack

2015-08-27, 05:44 AM

Spell point for max augmentation on en elemental flux or sleeping goddess maneuver in place of flux/pp? Expend a boost to not provoke when casting?

unseenmage

2015-08-27, 04:38 PM

Drrakerr

2015-08-27, 05:41 PM

As for items I've wanted is would be some kind of already made item to replace the camera-in-a harness-strapped-to-my-hawk-familiar for low profile aerial surveillance that I threw together in my last magi-tech campaign that I played. The success rate was... varied, but the idea behind it was sound. Maybe a Helm that links to some kind of collar that you can swap you vision to? Maybe choose to see either from your eyes or through the connected item. An upgraded version could even be a pair of helms that allow you to see from each others perspective, with some kind of two way message spell tacked on as well. Would be stellar for more stealth oriented play styles.

Milo v3

2015-08-27, 06:50 PM

As someone playing through the Iron Gods adventure path right now I find myself wondering, will there be any Technological items or Other Worlds items in this publication or would that be an entirely different book?

Sslarn was working on a book called Psitech that had technology guide style stuff for things like psionics and "possibly" akasha.

Ssalarn

2015-08-28, 10:53 AM

Sslarn was working on a book called Psitech that had technology guide style stuff for things like psionics and "possibly" akasha.

And Psitech is coming out very soon. With AM wrapped on my end, Andreas and I will be doing a last review of the Psitech materials next week before rolling out the playtest.

Milo v3

2015-08-29, 01:27 AM

And Psitech is coming out very soon. With AM wrapped on my end, Andreas and I will be doing a last review of the Psitech materials next week before rolling out the playtest.

Oh cool. Can't wait to see that mecha class.

PsyBomb

2015-08-29, 10:49 PM

Mithril Leaf

2015-08-29, 11:08 PM

Quickie update:

Crossbows sucking as hard as they do is something I've heard often, so I decided to do something about it in Steelforge. Check out the Autoloader Magazine, just added it to the Playtest Document. Should help things out for those of you wanting to use this under-represented combat style.

Can we have the capacity scale as well as the production? Also do we need to actually use any action to reload it in a repeating crossbow?

PsyBomb

2015-08-29, 11:20 PM

Can we have the capacity scale as well as the production? Also do we need to actually use any action to reload it in a repeating crossbow?

20-round capacity is already going to hold enough for 6-7 rounds of combat assuming a Greater Magazine and standing 5-shot full attacks (7 assumes you don't use up extra ammo via Snap Shot or similar). I could make it scale 10/20/30, but there isn't too much reason to.

Repeating Crossbow won't have its action types modified. Magazine swap is a set action type, and the bolt-reload is already Free and won't be reduced.

Extra Anchovies

2015-08-29, 11:30 PM

Swaoeaeieu

2015-08-30, 03:52 AM

i like the autoloader. reducing the reload action is really usefull. shame there still isnt a way to not need the free hand so we can dual wield like a baws

AnonymousPepper

2015-08-30, 07:06 AM

I do have a concern, reading the document in the OP, and I apologize if I've missed it being said somewhere else throughout the thread.

The refinement charms of health are pretty cheap for what they do already - 14k total for necklace, bracelet, and full sets of the charms grant an untyped +40HP, the equivalent of a +4 CON booster (16k, enhancement bonus) at 20th level, or a +8(!!!) at 10th (and very easily doable within WBL there, especially if self-crafted), with the only downside being not gaining actual CON points.

But consider that making them slotless would have ultimately trivial cost - the price would go up to 18k for another 40HP - and stay that way forever, rapidly outpacing any other method of gaining HP.

For a low-HP class like a primary caster, that is a fantastic investment to make, and I could see a wizard buying two or three sets starting at 20th level for 120 bonus HP that stacks with alllllll her other bonuses, probably effectively doubling or even tripling her HP for an ultimately relatively trivial sum. Maybe even more.

Is that the absolute best way to spend the money? Probably not. Hell, depending on your class, other refinement charms might be better uses.

Is it still pretty open to abuse? Absolutely.

I might want to suggest limiting the number of refinement charms of a given type that can function on a single person to twenty, or if you want to be stricter about it, add in wording preventing the necklace and bracelet from being made slotless as they normally could by the explicit item creation rules, or making it much more expensive to do so.

Because who wouldn't at least pay 14k once for +40HP, totally untyped?

Mehangel

2015-08-30, 09:14 AM

+40 HP is not the same as +4 CON, for one increases of CON will increase ones FORT Save aswell. So I dont think it is really an issue.

PsyBomb

2015-08-30, 12:29 PM

Autoloader Magazine looks pretty good. It's basically Rapid Reload: The Item, plus a constant abundant ammunition. I'm a bit wary about it copying magical effects, though (especially for its price), because I'm always wary of anything that enables Named Bullet cloning.

This is an extremely good point, and I am adding a note that will exclude temporary magical effects. I want crossbows to be viable, not the overwhelmingly best option.

AnonymousPepper

2015-08-30, 05:46 PM

+40 HP is not the same as +4 CON, for one increases of CON will increase ones FORT Save aswell. So I dont think it is really an issue.

Yeah, but that's 40HP that can be cheaply stacked forever. On top of a CON booster and a save booster, if you're worried about your fort save.

PsyBomb

2015-08-30, 06:03 PM

Yeah, but that's 40HP that can be cheaply stacked forever. On top of a CON booster and a save booster, if you're worried about your fort save.

I'll add a note somewhere to prevent a character from having access to more than 20 Charm slots. Forgot about enterprising players basically making Ioun Charm Bracelets if not prevented.

AnonymousPepper

2015-08-30, 06:22 PM

I'll add a note somewhere to prevent a character from having access to more than 20 Charm slots. Forgot about enterprising players basically making Ioun Charm Bracelets if not prevented.

I mean, I'd totally do it. I play Artificers for fun. >_>

I'm sorry if I'm giving you more work, I just noticed that was a thing that could be done.

PsyBomb

2015-08-30, 06:39 PM

I mean, I'd totally do it. I play Artificers for fun. >_>

I'm sorry if I'm giving you more work, I just noticed that was a thing that could be done.

Don't apologize! I'd rather add a sentence or two to the document now rather than find out I've written an abusable loophole.

ElderLucian

2015-08-31, 06:04 PM

Swiftshot’s Winder
Weight: 8lbs; Price 400gp

This clockwork device is made of a reinforced iron body, loaded with heavy springs and fine armatures. It is designed to be attached to a medium or small light or heavy crossbow, usually via leather straps. The winder takes a full round action and both hands to be fully wound. Once wound the winder reduces the reload time for the attached weapon by one step (a full round action is reduced to a move action, and a move action is reduced to a free action). Three rounds after the crossbow is first fired, the winder ceases to function and the crossbow cannot be reloaded normally until it is wound back up.
Reloading in this way still provokes an attack of opportunity. Attaching and removing the winder takes a full-round action.

If the winder reduces the reload time to a free action, you may fire that weapon as many times in a full-attack action as you could attack if you were using a bow.

Seems to be missing standard and swift actions

Abithrios

2015-08-31, 06:20 PM

Seems to be missing standard and swift actions

So did paizo in the rapid reload feat. (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/feats.html#rapid-reload)

Sayt

2015-08-31, 06:24 PM

Seems to be missing standard and swift actions

Because reloading is never either of those actions for a crossbow. 2h Firearms can be a standard action, but Crossbows aren't higher than a standard, and Rapid Reload skips past swift action because, well, all it'd really do would be let you Shot On The Run every round. Which you can already do with a bow, and get meaningful flat damage.

Crossbows should not be made to jump through more hoops to make full attacks when it's already a suboptimal weapon choice.

ElderLucian

2015-08-31, 10:56 PM

Ah if that is the case then shouldn't the Autoloader Magazine have the same wording if it is crossbow specific?

Autoloader Magazine

Third, it assist when the user recocks and reloads the crossbow, reducing the action required by one type (full-round to standard to move to swift to free).

Abithrios

2015-08-31, 11:55 PM

While I like what you are doing to make crossbows more viable (firing once every other round is crazy, and once per round is not enough either), I would rather crossbows not fill the same niche that composite longbows do now. The huge numbers of arrows fired per round by archers now make even less sense to me when transferred to a crossbow. I imagine crossbows as hitting harder than a regular bow. This is in contrast with the current rules, which cause composite longbows to easily outdamage heavy crossbows on a per shot basis.

Ssalarn

2015-09-01, 12:38 AM

Ah if that is the case then shouldn't the Autoloader Magazine have the same wording if it is crossbow specific?

Swift really shouldn't be part of the reload action economy, since it's not actually an economy improvement over a move action. Swifts are more valuable than moves, so going from move to swift is actually a downgrade. You can have 2 move actions a round, 3 with a quick runner's shirt, or 4 with a mount, but you only ever get 1 swift, and it's key to abilities like Bardic Performance, Greater Tactician, quickened spells, Arcane Strike, Judgement, martial counters, essence investment, the list goes on. It's why the Rapid Reload (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ultimateCombat/ultimateCombatFeats.html#rapid-reload) feat skips it as well.

While I like what you are doing to make crossbows more viable (firing once every other round is crazy, and once per round is not enough either), I would rather crossbows not fill the same niche that composite longbows do now. The huge numbers of arrows fired per round by archers now make even less sense to me when transferred to a crossbow. I imagine crossbows as hitting harder than a regular bow. This is in contrast with the current rules, which cause composite longbows to easily outdamage heavy crossbows on a per shot basis.

The problem is that it is really, really difficult to change the entire firing dynamic of crossbows while keeping it balanced and simple. The entire Path of War product line is built around breaking characters away from the full attack design dynamic; shoving a simple mechanic into a purchasable item is going to inevitably break the game somewhere. What do you do? Boost the damage die so you can snipe for 48d6? That's way too much for an item that's completely divorced from class features (and yes, while that's the outer extreme involving Vital Strike feats and size boosters, it's the end result of a die-based fix). Maybe you allow crossbows to be cranked up for extra Strength damage on the attack? It'll never equal a full attack, unless the damage ceiling is so high it breaks down somewhere else.

Unfortunately, an item-based fix really needs to lean towards simply allowing the weapon the same functionality other weapons have. More in depth fixes would need to happen in class or archetype design, or major system/subsystem rewrites.

PsyBomb

2015-09-01, 07:26 AM

Ah if that is the case then shouldn't the Autoloader Magazine have the same wording if it is crossbow specific?

It will. That piece of wording was my mistake, and I'll correct it once I get to a computer

Mehangel

2015-09-05, 01:46 PM

Any thoughts on having the Poison Inverting Mask utilize the Dirty Tactics Toolbox spell: Invigorating Poison instead of Neutralize Poison and Rage?

School transmutation; Level alchemist 2, cleric 2, druid 2, shaman 2
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, M/DF (an apple seed)
Range touch
Target creature touched
Duration 10 minutes/level
Saving Throw Fortitude negates (harmless); Spell Resistance
yes (harmless)
The body of the target creature gains a metabolic response that
allows it to benefit from normally deadly toxins. When a poison
would cause ability damage to the target creature, the target
instead gains a +4 alchemical bonus to that ability score. The
spell then immediately ends, but the bonus lasts for a number
of minutes equal to the amount of ability damage the poison
would have caused. If the poison would deal more than one
type of ability damage, each bonus has a separate duration.
If the poison has effects other than ability damage (such as
unconsciousness or ability drain), these effects apply normally.
This spell affects only a single poison; if multiple poisons affect
the target simultaneously, this spell prevents only ability
damage and grants the appropriate

Roog

2015-09-05, 09:29 PM

Having just read through the playtest document (as far as Locations of Power), I have a few comments/questions?

Firesight Eyes
- Are these meant to be a hard counter to stealth, because the description states "these lenses reveal hidden foes and concealed enemies wherever they may hide. Wearing these lenses outlines all creatures within 60 ft. in dancing flames that only you can see"?

Headless Helm
- Does this stop the user from speaking?
- Does this stop the user from activating command word items?

Non-Secrecy Amulet
- Any particular reason for a 35-ft ranged?

Angelwing Cloak
- How does this affect smite (and other effects that depend on alignment)?

Rings of Bound Loyalty
- As charm monster is a 4th level spell (this is confirmed by the CL of 7), shouldn't the DC be 16?

Endeca’s Gregarious Gravity Slime
- Does applying the slime provoke an AOO?
- What is the need to treat victims as if they have no ranks in fly skill (and force them to recalculate the skill)?
- The description of the slime' HP is somewhat unclear.
Is it the slime's HP or only the slime's max HP that are diminished only by use or energy damage?
Can the slime be damaged in other ways? If it is not meant to be able to be damaged in other ways, then that makes any its physical properties very weird? Ie you can damage it by pulling a part off, but not with a weapon, and only with a swift action.

Refinement Charms
- Maybe something for Clerics and other domain users, like an extra use of a domain power that is normally usable 3 + Wisdom modifier time per day.

Smuggler's Chest
- The Description states "The lead lining of the box shields both the runes and the contents of the hidden compartment from effects such as detect magic". It would be good to be more specific about what type of effects this blocks.

Toxin Drinking Needle
- What happens if the targets is under the effects of multiple poisons, or is one that produces its own poison and is also under the effects of a poison?

Brave Weapons
- If it only doubles base damage then +2 seems grossly overpriced.

Burning Weapon / Caustic Weapon / etc
- Looks a little cheap
(#Edit)
Compare a +1 Corrosive Weapon (~8000gp) with a +1 Burning, Caustic, Chilling, Jolting Weapon (~3600gp), and the cost difference is even more noticeable as other enchantments are added.
The second is significantly more powerful and more versatile (unless the character has few free swift actions).
A cost of 1000gp to 2000gp would be more reasonable.

Morphing Weapon
- Far too expensive for it's intended fuction (unless there is a combo of the power level of Lightning Mace somewhere)

Skinning Weapon
- Could make it clearer what "takes a penalty to its natural armor bonus (even if it doesn’t have one)" means.

Twinned Weapon
- As written it does not allow the duplication of powers that are not costed as a +X equivalent.
- As this is written, its value changes a lot depending on the total bonus of the items.
For two weapons at +3 total bonus, it costs more than it gives.
For two weapons at +6 total bonus, it make's one a +9 equivalent for a cheaper price than a single +9 weapon.
This creates a lot more calculation for anyone trying to work out whether it's worthwhile using.
- Maybe the whole idea could be simplified.
Make twinned a relatively cheap fixed cost enchantment for the primary weapon.
(to distinguish weapons that can be bonded to from those that can't).
Make twinned a variable cost enchantment for the secondary weapon, that makes the secondary weapon a clone of the primary.
Eg something like +1 can be twin of weapons up to +4 equivalent, +2 can be twin of weapons up to +8 equivalent, +3 can be twin of any equivalent. Or some other simple pricing scheme.
This would make the workings of twin weapons easier to understand, avoid situations where it allows price savings for single weapon users, and make it clear when is a trap option.
It would also make it more reasonable for a character to add the primary-twin enchantment to a weapon acquired in the game.

Other Item Enhancements
- Cost formula should be specified. Is it enhancement^2 x 2000 as a weapon, or enhancement^2 x 1000 as armor, or some other formula?

Multitasking
- Do tools for both projects need to be multitasking?
- If this was +50% (not x1.5) then the math for stacking Multitasking and Swift would be simpler.

Remote
- Normally the effect of bardic music moves with the bard. Is this effect movable?

Swift
- If this was +50% (not x1.5) then the math for stacking Multitasking and Swift would be simpler.

PsyBomb

2015-09-05, 11:04 PM

Having just read through the playtest document (as far as Locations of Power), I have a few comments/questions?

Non-Secrecy Amulet
- Any particular reason for a 35-ft ranged?

Rings of Bound Loyalty
- As charm monster is a 4th level spell (this is confirmed by the CL of 7), shouldn't the DC be 16?

Refinement Charms
- Maybe something for Clerics and other domain users, like an extra use of a domain power that is normally usable 3 + Wisdom modifier time per day.

Other Item Enhancements
- Cost formula should be specified. Is it enhancement^2 x 2000 as a weapon, or enhancement^2 x 1000 as armor, or some other formula?

Multitasking
- Do tools for both projects need to be multitasking?
- If this was +50% (not x1.5) then the math for stacking Multitasking and Swift would be simpler.

Remote
- Normally the effect of bardic music moves with the bard. Is this effect movable?

Swift
- If this was +50% (not x1.5) then the math for stacking Multitasking and Swift would be simpler.

Alright, I'll take the ones I know (AKA that I did write).

Non-Secrecy Amulet: Spell it's based on is Close range, CL is 5. 35ft range results
Rings of Bound Loyalty: Thanks for the catch, fixed
Refinement Charms: I'll probably do something to this effect, might fall under Power Charms. Just gotta finish my current bit of writing to get back to those.
Other Item Enhancements: It's (enhancement^2)*1000, as armor. I'll try to make that clearer
Multitasking: RAI was it had to be the same tool used on both projects. Not sure how I'll proceed with wording, but I'll make sure it's cleared up.
Remote: Yes, I'll make that clearer
Swift: Will likely take that wording, need to make sure it all fits together.

TiaC

2015-09-06, 03:45 AM

The Snuff spell probably needs a note that it doesn't work on artifacts.

In addition, the Ectoplasmic Manufacturer's Construct Army seems pretty weak for a capstone, as all it does is reduce the manifesting time. Also, Extended Constructs comes too late. As things stand, the ability arrives right when the constructs would last a full combat anyways.

Taveena

2015-09-06, 05:37 AM

Just going through the doc and noting some observations.

Safety Belt might make more sense as a bonus to Perception checks (or a reduction to the Perception DC), so that it's easier to FIND them if they want to be spotted - as it is the Safety Belt ONLY makes you visible when you're trying to hide.

There's a typo on Autoloader Magazine ("Third, it assist when" instead of "Third, it assists when". Thog happy to help load crossbow!)

Does the Greater Magecatcher Net's Antimagic Field only affect the enemy in the net, or does it have the standard area?

If a Toxin-Drinking Needle is applied to a creature that creates toxins AND is poisoned, do both effects apply?

If a formerly willing creature under the effects of Warp Anchor decides to resist it, is the total duration reduced to 5 rounds (thus freeing them immediately if 5 rounds have passed) or set to five rounds (thus potentially resulting in a total 30 minute 24 second duration)?

How is ammunition for a ranged Warsong Weapon determined?

Chaos Root Paste has a typo ("found only is chaos-tainted realms", should be "found only in chaos-tainted realms").

Does a Poisoner's Sheath fit any weapon? RAW implies it does, which is pretty impressive for a nonmagical sheath.

Abyssium's profane bonus to damage should probably be phrased "deals an additional 1 profane damage on each successful attack". Also, per the pending Profane damage changes, that damage won't actually ever multiply against a Good creature unless they're already dealing an odd number of Profane damage (possible, but a very niche case). Maybe raising it to 2 damage so the damage type means something? Alternatively, it's an incredibly potent 50% damage increase on all attacks with that weapon against Good creatures.

As above for Celesteel. Seriously, I gotta emphasize how incredibly potent 1 extra sacred damage is. (Or how meaningless. There's not much middle ground.)

Slightly awkward punctuation of the last sentence of Incinerator Cannon. I'd suggest "The owner has no control over its actions other than daily programming - it acts automatically any time a defined enemy is within range, regardless of its user’s will."

Can a Bearded weapon go over the normal +5 enhancement limit if the wielder is a dwarf?

Some kind of mechanical effect from the Pleasing Scent from Charming armor would be nice. It seems like it'd make it easier to track someone with Scent, at the very least.

This isn't a Bloodforge question, exactly, but if you make the DC 25 check to Emulate A Race for Bearded or Exploding enhancements, does it last indefinitely?

Morphing is a lot like the old Aptitude, with even feats where you don't CHOOSE which weapon is affected apply. Intended?

It's a bit of extra work, but a Skinning weapon having a larger effect when applied to a weapon with a larger crit range would be nice.

Does Spiritbound Weapon stack with other enhancement bonuses? Implicitly not, but there's a bit of wiggle room at the moment - even if it's only THAT you're allowed to have a +5 Spiritbound 2 weapon, where that enhancement does nothing.

Twinned repeatedly refers to Weapon Enchantments rather than Enhancements.

While this isn't a problem as such, the Font of Power gives a huge investment for prepared casters with no actual drawback, as they only NEED the spell for the amount of time it takes to cast, while also giving them two spontaneous-cast slots per day. A spontaneous caster or a manifester benefits less but still loses nothing. Veilweavers, and people who invest feats are being asked to give up a lot more for a much smaller gain.

Trapped items should probably have a way to disable them, so that the actual INTENDED wielder doesn't eat the penalty every single time they pick up the Alarm'd item.

Does the Metamagic additional property function for EVERY spell, or just the first? The singular in "if the wielder is struck by a spell that spell" is slightly confusing.

The duration of Construct Army being restricted by the Encounter in addition to the ML is really kinda weird. It results in the situation where you benefit from starting and immediately ending encounters to churn out a lot. Maybe it should be rewritten so that each Astral Construct summoned while he already has a Construct up takes a full-round, and expires when the first does?

Again, not a problem, but why does the Axiomite get to choose how many equipment-veils they make rather than having the fixed number of Passion veils the normal Daevic does?

Abnegation Axioms don't actually add to the power of their party members by letting them invest in the bonded equipment. Unless the party's both heavily akashic AND not making much use of their essence, then their level 6 power is very disappointing. Sure, it gets better when combined with their later abilities, but when you GET it, it's useless, which is a bit unsatisfying. The level 11 should probably also have language a bit more like the Akashic Catalysts, because at present that bonus essence currently counts towards the cap - though that might be intended, given - as mentioned - little reason for them to invest in it as is, so unlikely to hit it. I dunno. Is it intended to be able to go over the normal cap?

Snuff says "do not require to be activated". Should be "do not require activation" or "do not need to be activated."