Mithralmist Shirt

[Shnigda]

Hey Guys,
I have just been rereading the Mithralmist Shirt entry in the MIC and have noticed something that I missed on first reading.


Mithralmist Shirt
Up to seven times per day, you can activate this +1 mithral shirt to fill your space with a billowing silver mist. This gleaming fog grants you concealment against attacks but does not interfere with your vision. The mist lasts for 1 minute per activation, and it remains in the space where you activated the effect (it doesn’t move with you if you leave that space).

So does this mean that while right next to an enemy (and standing in mist) a character can make a hide check?

The bit that confuses me is that you would still be being observed, which would deny an opportunity to hide, but would have concealment which would allow you to hide.


Hide
You need cover or concealment in order to attempt a Hide check. Total cover or total concealment usually (but not always; see Special, below) obviates the need for a Hide check, since nothing can see you anyway.
If people are observing you, even casually, you can’t hide.

Any help would be much appreciated!

[Morcleon]

Hey Guys,
I have just been rereading the Mithralmist Shirt entry in the MIC and have noticed something that I missed on first reading.



So does this mean that while right next to an enemy (and standing in mist) a character can make a hide check?

The bit that confuses me is that you would still be being observed, which would deny an opportunity to hide, but would have concealment which would allow you to hide.



Any help would be much appreciated!

You could make a hide check to make people not be able to see you, so you'd be effectively invisible to them. However, they would still know what square you're in due to the mist box.

[Shnigda]

So i could hide, deny them their dex and apply sneak attack damage? but they would be able to attack the square and have a 20% miss chance? Is that correct?

[Morcleon]

So i could hide, deny them their dex and apply sneak attack damage? but they would be able to attack the square and have a 20% miss chance? Is that correct?

Yep. They'd have a 50% miss chance since they can't see you after you hide successfully.

[Shnigda]

Oh nice! :smallbiggrin:

If there is any way of increasing the maximum Dexterity bonus to AC available from armour that would be good to know as well! (My character is about to surpass the +6 maximum)

[Morcleon]

Oh nice! :smallbiggrin:

If there is any way of increasing the maximum Dexterity bonus to AC available from armour that would be good to know as well! (My character is about to surpass the +6 maximum)

Reverse engineer the special enchancement from Celestial Armor for reduction in ACP and an increase in max Dex. There's also the Nimbleness enchantment that increase max Dex by 1, and reduces ACP by 2.

[ksbsnowowl]

You need two things to be able to Hide, normally:

1) Cover or Concealment
2) Not being observed

The Mithralmist shirt only gives you the first of those. Thus, with the Mithralmist shirt alone, you cannot Hide.

However, if you were invisible for a round (swift invisibility, for example), then you could Hide, and potentially remain hidden even after your invisibility ran out (but they would have a pretty good idea what square you are in.

Alternatively, if you had the Hide in Plain Sight ability, the Mithralmist Shirt would grant you the concealment you need to Hide, and HiPS would remove the need to be unobserved (as long as the trigger conditions for HiPS were met).

[Diarmuid]

Yep. They'd have a 50% miss chance since they can't see you after you hide successfully.

It would be 20% because the OP is attacking after hiding, so he's no longer effectively invisible.

As others pointed out, this really only works with HiPS.

[Invader]

You need two things to be able to Hide, normally:

1) Cover or Concealment
2) Not being observed

The Mithralmist shirt only gives you the first of those. Thus, with the Mithralmist shirt alone, you cannot Hide.

However, if you were invisible for a round (swift invisibility, for example), then you could Hide, and potentially remain hidden even after your invisibility ran out (but they would have a pretty good idea what square you are in.

Alternatively, if you had the Hide in Plain Sight ability, the Mithralmist Shirt would grant you the concealment you need to Hide, and HiPS would remove the need to be unobserved (as long as the trigger conditions for HiPS were met).

You can't be observed if you're concealed so you could make your hide check.

[DarkSonic1337]

You can't be observed if you're concealed so you could make your hide check.

Isn't that only true for total concealment or total cover? Concealment and Partial Cover don't seem like they'd be enough to stop being observed.

[Jowgen]

Observed-ness is a rather ill-defined concept in the game. Does it rely on line of sight? Can you be observed via listen, blind-sense, tremor-sense or blind-sight?

The only thing that directly ties into it, to my knoweldge, is the bluff skill. As a standard action you can create a "diversion", and are then allowed to hide (provided conditions are met, obviously). Arguably, things that qualify as a distraction for the purposes of other effects would could also "break observed-ness" and thus allow a mithral-misted character to hide.

[ksbsnowowl]

You can't be observed if you're totally concealed so you could make your hide check.I altered your post into a true statement.

Except that if you have total concealment you don't need to make a Hide check, because they already can't see you.

Total concealment prevents people from observing you; normal concealment does not.


You need cover or concealment in order to attempt a Hide check. Total cover or total concealment usually (but not always; see Special, below) obviates the need for a Hide check, since nothing can see you anyway.

If people are observing you, even casually, you can’t hide. You can run around a corner or behind cover so that you’re out of sight and then hide, but the others then know at least where you went.

If your observers are momentarily distracted (such as by a Bluff check; see below), though, you can attempt to hide. While the others turn their attention from you, you can attempt a Hide check if you can get to a hiding place of some kind. (As a general guideline, the hiding place has to be within 1 foot per rank you have in Hide.) This check, however, is made at a -10 penalty because you have to move fast.

As I said before, You need two things to be able to Hide:

1) Cover or Concealment
2) Not being observed

You can get the first several ways (dense fog, mithralmist shirt, darkness [so long as the observer doesn't have darkvision, or you aren't in range of his darkvision], Darkness, dense foliage in the forest, a Ranger's Camouflage ability, etc.), and you can obtain or negate the need for the second in several ways (getting them to look away [ie - not observe you] with a Bluff check, Hide in Plain Sight, total cover/concealment, waiting for the guard to be facing away from you, approaching from where they weren't observing you and succeeding on your Hide checks all the way in, etc.), but you must satisfy or negate the need for both of those conditions to be able to Hide.