Let's build an army!

[ImSAMazing]

Allright peeps, it's time to take over Waterdeep, but you need an army. You are a lvl 20 Wizard, but you cant directly damage Waterdeep using your spells. You got all the spells, how are you going to do it?

[Elbeyon]

Isn't waterdeep also full of high level wizards? Wizards get more powerful the more downtime they have, and they have more downtime (in combination) than you. Anything you can do they can do but in higher quantities. Every dragon you create out of nothing, they created even more. Their exponential growth has a higher growth rate. I'm afraid that you lose is likely the correct response. Two wizards are in fact better than one.

[ImSAMazing]

Isn't waterdeep also full of high level wizards? Wizards get more powerful the more downtime they have, and they have more downtime (in combination) than you. Anything you can do they can do but in higher quantities. Every dragon you create out of nothing, they created even more. Their exponential growth has a higher growth rate. I'm afraid that you lose is likely the correct response. Two wizards are in fact better than one.

They aren't prepared for an attack, it's a suprise attack.

[Brendanicus]

EDIT: Misread object of thread, please delete.

[Inevitability]

Taking over Waterdeep with an army is impossible. Even if you manage to defeat the high-level wizards, warriors, and whatnots, the city will be in ruins. Oh, and you'll get in trouble with the Lord's Alliance, whose philosophy regarding such a thing amounts to 'raise a bigger army and attack the usurper'.

The other common tactic, killing and impersonating the leader, will be hard because Waterdeep is ruled by a council of lords, the identity of most unknown.

[PoeticDwarf]

You can't take Waterdeep over. If you destroy it, Waterdeep has enough connections.

[Inevitability]

If you have to create an army, though, use monsters with immunity to nonmagical weapon attacks, such as golems. Most people won't be able to hurt those. Add some gated-in fiends to provide support.

[tieren]

Allright peeps, it's time to take over Waterdeep, but you need an army. You are a lvl 20 Wizard, but you cant directly damage Waterdeep using your spells. You got all the spells, how are you going to do it?

Begin by recruiting all the wizards and fighters in waterdeep, then call it a revolution instead of an invasion.

[HoarsHalberd]

Waterdeep? Virtually impossible. Unless you cheese... a lot... and assume none of the other wizards will do the same. Cast wish-simulacrum 1095 times. Over the course of three years turn them all into ancient brass/white dragons. Then repeat the wish-simulacrum another few million times and have them conjure as many beasts, fey and elementals as they can get to overrun the city as fast as they can.

Though this assumes you are the first mover on this tactic.

[ImSAMazing]

I was just phylosophing, if you dont have a good suggestion, dont post. If no - one wants to reply to this, let's change the assignment:
You got 50 days to build the best army possible. You are a lvl 20 Wizard with all spells but no money. You do have unlimited armor, shields and weapons. How are you going to do it?

[Grek]

Your newest premises don't make a lot of sense. What are you even trying to accomplish? To make the Best army, you need something for it to be best at. Taking over Waterdeep is one possible goal, but as people have pointed out being a Level 20 Wizard with a large mundane army isn't going to cut it - Waterdeep also has that, many times over.

Also you misspelled "philosophizing".

[JNAProductions]

I was just phylosophing, if you dont have a good suggestion, dont post. If no - one wants to reply to this, let's change the assignment:

First off, how do we know what's going to be a good suggestion or what's not? All we can do is toss ideas out.

Second off, plenty of people replied, they just replied with answers you didn't really like.

[ImSAMazing]

Allright. Lets question it this way: how would you build an army that follows all your orders.

[JNAProductions]

Golems and/or undead. They follow orders very well-much better than humanoids do.

[SharkForce]

you can true polymorph objects into creatures of CR 9 or less, permanently.

shield guardians are creatures of CR 9 or less, which have an inherent method of gaining control (either getting your hands on their amulet, or if they don't have one, you can just craft one for them at a cost of 25,000 gold). of course, it does have a gold cost, so every second day you should use wish to fabricate the amulets without the pesky material components (unless your DM rules the shield guardians come complete with controlling amulet).

alternately, you can travel to the plane of limbo and go to the rock that spawns slaad. bring lots of objects with you. turn each object into a slaad (gray slaads are the best you can get with the CR limitations). have the slaad touch the spawning stone. then operate on it to remove the control stone. you can do this once per day.

as a third alternative, you can true polymorph rocks into golems (clay golems are your highest CR option here). technically, golems obey their creators. if the DM rules that you are not the creator, golems can also come with items that allow the holder to control them (but, unlike shield guardians, are not explicitly inert when nobody has the item).

shield guardians are probably the least effective option in some ways, but also probably the one with the least horrendous drawbacks (they don't go berserk, they aren't creatures of pure unmitigated chaos held in check only by the fact that you are holding on to a small magical rock, and when they're not controlled they just stop working).

on the other hand, you can put a spell of your choice in them, and technically you can get a rather large stacking AC buff from them.

however, for pretty much any of these exploits, i wouldn't blame your DM for just killing the character arbitrarily unless the campaign is explicitly supposed to involve these kinds of shenanigans. there are things that the rules allow, and things that the rules should allow. the above ideas are within the former, but probably not the latter for most campaigns.

edit: oh, and uh... while you're at it, you may as well kill off the local annoying humanoid population (meaning orcs and goblins that the people of waterdeep won't mind the absence of) and turn them into zombies via finger of death. or see if you can persuade your DM to allow you skeletons; you have enough melee might and toughness already, you may as well see if you can get some ranged support via skeleton archers.

also also, for the slaad, if you can find CR 10 creatures, you can turn them into death slaad, kill them with your army of loyal minions, and have your gray slaad eat them; you still have the control shard, and the gray slaad will then turn into a death slaad. but again, seriously, just because the rules don't say no doesn't mean you should do it.

[Shining Wrath]

I'll play along with OP.

You want to take over Waterdeep or any other large city full of wizards and other people with class levels, in a surprise attack.

First, what level of cheese are you allowing? If you use Simulacrum --> Wish --> Simulacrum cheese, you can have a very large number of copies of yourself, all perfectly obedient.

If you allow True Polymorph to create magic items of unlimited power, which by RAW it can do, then you TP the nearest small harmless creature into a ring of 10,000 Wishes, and the rest I leave to your imagination, merely noting that you can generate another ring of 10,000 Wishes tomorrow.

Both of these assume that no one has ever thought of this idea before you did, and that the gods of Faerun aren't going to show up and say "Hold on there, this cheese is too fragrant to tolerate".

For methods less redolent of Limburger, I suggest using Princes of Amber methods; find a world where someone with your powers will be mistaken for a god, raise and equip an army, open a portal and come through with your army and good luck you're going to need it.

[Envyus]

You would need tens of thosands of soldiers (Decent soldiers not commoners.) to take over Waterdeep. My best recomendation would be to get a ton of guys who would be willing to take on one of the strongest cities in the world, Then offer up their souls to the Hells and see if you get the Devils to help you take it over. Setting up a few portals to Hell to let Devils come through (even better if their in the city.) and offer the city as a soul factory for them (Pretty much making the city a horrible place that goes out of it's way to make sure it's citizens are Lawful evil.) with you in charge.

[Grek]

Evil Option: Create Undead to make Wights, Geas the Wights. Each gives you 12 zombies under it, and is personally a powerful combatant.
Neutral Option: Become a Weretiger. Recruit people to your banner with promises of giving them feudal rights under you and overt supernatural powers by converting them into weretigers as well.
Good Option: Use Fabricate to create grains, clothing and other useful goods. Distribute these goods for free, only asking that those who benefit vote for your party in the upcoming election. Have yourself and your allies elected to every position in the City Council.

[VoxRationis]

Are babau demons still a thing in this edition? What you want is to eliminate most of the powerful wizards, as well as the entire group of the Lords of Waterdeep, in one fell swoop. Most of your time in the 50-day startup period should be spent with divinations or imp-summoning to ferret out the identities and weaknesses of these people, combined with summoning of babau or the hiring of stealthy assassin-type characters and monsters who can strike before a wizard can prepare. You eliminate the Lords, and rule in their name, possibly with some minions to fill the chairs and masks. After all, if people don't know who they are, who's to say your puppet council wasn't the rightful ruling group in the first place?

[SharkForce]

Evil Option: Create Undead to make Wights, Geas the Wights. Each gives you 12 zombies under it, and is personally a powerful combatant.
Neutral Option: Become a Weretiger. Recruit people to your banner with promises of giving them feudal rights under you and overt supernatural powers by converting them into weretigers as well.
Good Option: Use Fabricate to create grains, clothing and other useful goods. Distribute these goods for free, only asking that those who benefit vote for your party in the upcoming election. Have yourself and your allies elected to every position in the City Council.

geas doesn't work quite the way you seem to think it does.

[Grek]

geas doesn't work quite the way you seem to think it does.

What Geas does in this edition is inflict the Charmed condition and do 3d10 psychic damage to the victim the first time they disobey you in any given 24 hour period. Charmed, in turn, gives you Advantage on social checks and makes them incapable of attacking you. Thus, on one hand we have an Evil Wight being asked (by its creator, with Advantage) to serve as an officer in an undead army to take over a city of the living and on the other hand we have a inevitable and excruciating death (Geas does significant damage every day, and eventually the Wight will not be allowed to take Long Rests to recover while it remains in the Necromancer's lair) should the Wight continue to disobey. While it isn't literally mind control in 5e, a Geas is still a very compelling argument for obedience.

[Inevitability]

Note that technically True Polymorph can turn stones into Golems which can't be turned back, even in an antimagic field.


Also note that technically the DM could respond to this by throwing books.

[SharkForce]

What Geas does in this edition is inflict the Charmed condition and do 3d10 psychic damage to the victim the first time they disobey you in any given 24 hour period. Charmed, in turn, gives you Advantage on social checks and makes them incapable of attacking you. Thus, on one hand we have an Evil Wight being asked (by its creator, with Advantage) to serve as an officer in an undead army to take over a city of the living and on the other hand we have a inevitable and excruciating death (Geas does significant damage every day, and eventually the Wight will not be allowed to take Long Rests to recover while it remains in the Necromancer's lair) should the Wight continue to disobey. While it isn't literally mind control in 5e, a Geas is still a very compelling argument for obedience.

it isn't particularly inevitable or excruciating. I doubt that wights, being undead, are particularly subject to pain. I especially don't find that they're going to somehow inevitably be unable to take long rests.

just because the wight is evil, doesn't mean it wants to serve you in doing evil. it isn't evil because it has a specific goal of being evil with evil quotas to fill, it is evil because it values its own life highly and the lives of basically everyone and everything else not at all. it might help you attack a city of the living, if you can persuade it. but it also might tell you to take a hike and walk away when you tell it that step A is to sit on its butt and wait around for 6 months, then attack a city full of armed soldiers and powerful wizards instead of attacking isolated farms and killing everyone there with no resistance just for fun.

[Grek]

When you initially raise a Wight, it is under your control for 24 hours. That fact is v ery key to the whole process and should not be forgotten.

During this time, you can command it to answer honestly whether it plans to resist your commands and, if it does plan to resist, order it to manacle itself in your dungeons. You can prevent it from resting by having someone jab it with a pitchfork whenever it tries to relax. Wights are not immune to charm, fear or psychic damage in 5e, and are just as intelligent as the average human. Furthermore, their description in the monster manual says that:

"When death stills such a creature's heart and snuffs its living breath, its spirit cries out to the demon lord Orcus or some vile god of the underworld for a reprieve: undeath in return for eternal war on the living. If a dark power answers the call, the spirit is granted undeath so that it can pursue its own malevolent agenda."

Making it perfectly clear that wights are capable of suffering and can be punished for disobedience by injuring them whenever they disobey. Its definitely coercion, and it's definitely not going to make the wights particularly happy (well, beyond the fact that they get to kill people and not get killed in return), but it will work.

[SharkForce]

and then after it is no longer compelled to serve you, it leaves your dungeon, and now that you've tortured it and made it clear that no, it doesn't want to serve you, it leaves and goes to do what it wants. because again, geas doesn't actually provide you a great deal of control over the target.

[Envyus]

Getting enough Wights that would work for you would take a very long time anyway. Better to do what I said and try and arrange a deal with the Hells.

[Grek]

and then after it is no longer compelled to serve you, it leaves your dungeon, and now that you've tortured it and made it clear that no, it doesn't want to serve you, it leaves and goes to do what it wants. because again, geas doesn't actually provide you a great deal of control over the target.

No. It doesn't leave. Its in your dungeon. That's what a dungeon means. It means people inside don't get to leave because the doors are locked.

[SharkForce]

No. It doesn't leave. Its in your dungeon. That's what a dungeon means. It means people inside don't get to leave because the doors are locked.

so, in your dungeon, and you're gaining nothing from it then? i mean, what do you gain from having a wight in your dungeon? because to me it sounds like you aren't gaining anything whatsoever.

eventually, if you want to derive any benefit from it whatsoever, you will need to let it out. when you do, don't expect any loyalty from it.

especially since any that survive going into the deathtrap you've set up for them will be free of your geas. have fun with that.

[Grek]

The whole point of putting disobedient wights in your dungeon is to allow you to easily separate the wights which cannot be convinced from those which have been convinced. You A] prevent them from resting, B] order them not to lie, and C] tell them that they will be released if and only if they can say (without triggering the Geas by lying) that they will obey you, have no intention of betraying you, and have no expectation for either of the prior to change in the foreseeable future.

If they lie, the Geas kicks in and they take damage, revealing the lie. Since they're not getting to rest, that damage will eventually destroy them if they keep lying. Any wight who can't manage to work itself around to truthfully swearing loyalty to you will eventually be destroyed by the end of this process, so any wight who does survive must therefore be loyal.

I'm not going to argue the point further. If you can't follow that chain of logic (it is rather twisty, I suppose) I'm not prepared to get into a whole dissertation about guaranteeing loyalty through credible precommitment. It's a complex subject and gitp really isn't the place for it.

[SharkForce]

The whole point of putting disobedient wights in your dungeon is to allow you to easily separate the wights which cannot be convinced from those which have been convinced. You A] prevent them from resting, B] order them not to lie, and C] tell them that they will be released if and only if they can say (without triggering the Geas by lying) that they will obey you, have no intention of betraying you, and have no expectation for either of the prior to change in the foreseeable future.

If they lie, the Geas kicks in and they take damage, revealing the lie. Since they're not getting to rest, that damage will eventually destroy them if they keep lying. Any wight who can't manage to work itself around to truthfully swearing loyalty to you will eventually be destroyed by the end of this process, so any wight who does survive must therefore be loyal.

I'm not going to argue the point further. If you can't follow that chain of logic (it is rather twisty, I suppose) I'm not prepared to get into a whole dissertation about guaranteeing loyalty through credible precommitment. It's a complex subject and gitp really isn't the place for it.

ok, so like i said, you don't understand how geas works.

geas lets you give one command or one restriction to the target. so if that restriction is that they cannot lie, then nothing happens when they disobey you, only when they lie.

furthermore, the spell only triggers if they *directly* disobey the command, and you're using torture to obtain a desired response. the second they are out of your sight, no matter how sincere they may have been when you were torturing them to death, it is unlikely that the nature of the wights will make them feel like they continue to owe you anything, and it is unlikely that the sincerity will last for very long. they can't try to attack you (they're charmed), but they can sure decide that they'd rather not be around you any more, and so long as they don't directly lie (so half-truths and misleading answers are allowed), the geas won't do a thing to them. heck, if they just don't answer your question (which they are not compelled to do after the first day unless you blow a create undead spell on them again), the geas won't do a thing to them.

plus, the damage is sufficient that 1-3 attempts is all you get most likely.

i'm just not seeing how this is likely to lead to you having a remotely loyal army any time soon.

[Grek]

Geas lets you compel one service or force one restriction. The Geas to use in this case is the restriction "Do not disobey my orders." Then, separately, you say, "I order you to answer my questions honestly and to the best of your knowledge, with no attempt at deception.", not as part of a Geas, but as an order to them. The rest should follow naturally from there.

[KorvinStarmast]

Allright peeps, it's time to take over Waterdeep, but you need an army. You are a lvl 20 Wizard, but you cant directly damage Waterdeep using your spells.
In order to take over Waterdeep, you first need to find out who is running it, and then use whatever means you have to get a few dozen Rogue/Assassins. Their first job is in locating these very secretive Lords of Waterdeep. You help them where you can with various scrying spells, your crystal ball, etc.

once you identify and locate these core leaders, you then set up a shadow government of people who are friendly to you who'd like to fill various roles in the leadership vacuum you are about to create.

Next, assassinations are accomplished. (Uh, that's the hard bit, see Walter White trying to synchronize the murder of a bunch of people all at once.) Maybe you can do it, maybe you can't.

If it works, slip your buds into the Lords slots. Meet with them, and run Waterdeep. Take a percentage of taxes as your cut. Profit.

If the Assassination attempts don't work, leave for distant parts.

Not every coup is successful.

[thepsyker]

Allright. Lets question it this way: how would you build an army that follows all your orders.

As a 20th level Wizard how would I build an army that follows all my orders? Noble background, a 20 in Charisma, the Leadership feat, 20 levels worth of gold and loot, and a lot of downtime spent recruiting. Not every problem requires a magical solution. :smalltongue:

[KorvinStarmast]

As a 20th level Wizard how would I build an army that follows all my orders? Noble background, a 20 in Charisma, the Leadership feat, 20 levels worth of gold and loot, and a lot of downtime spent recruiting. Not every problem requires a magical solution. :smalltongue: Might want to include all the beer ... :smallbiggrin:

[SharkForce]

Geas lets you compel one service or force one restriction. The Geas to use in this case is the restriction "Do not disobey my orders." Then, separately, you say, "I order you to answer my questions honestly and to the best of your knowledge, with no attempt at deception.", not as part of a Geas, but as an order to them. The rest should follow naturally from there.

that's a pretty sketchy interpretation of a single activity. I'm pretty sure if I tried to pull that kind of BS on my DMs, they'd shut it down immediately. and I would deserve to be shut down. if they intended it to mean "everything I say for the next month", they would have said that instead of talking about one command.

[thepsyker]

Might want to include all the beer ... :smallbiggrin:

That's what the gold and loot is for.:smallwink:

Edit: Thinking about it a pub and brewery might not be a bad investment. You can use the pub for wining and dining the more skilled potential recruits, officers, non-coms and support staff, to build a core frame for the army. Then once you have that set up and you are looking for bodies to train go on the road with a cart full of beer and offer the crowds a free drink while you make a pitch on the benefits of their serving in your army. Once they are on the hook turn them over to the core you set up earlier for training, treat them well by being willing to spring for decent equipment and compensation and you should be able to develop a reasonably obedient and competent army.

[ZenBear]

What level are all these "high level casters" in Waterderp? Is there any source material that directly states that anyone in the city is a caster of any specific level? 20th level casters are like gods in their own right. In past editions they were stronger than gods! If anyone in Waterderp had that kind of power you can be sure they would have been using all the cheesy shenanigans to a greater end than being a single masked lord of a city.

I see a lot of killjoys ruining what should be a fun "what if" conversation. Who cares what is canonically possible? This is Dungeons and Dragons, a purely fictional fantasy game. Make something up!

Simulacrum/Wish shenanigans aside, the classic undead army could work. You don't need Gaes to convince a Wight to join you in taking down one of if not the single most powerful city in the world. Shadows and Wraiths can "recruit" even more allies. Vampires love being Lords, so you can bet they're in. If you don't mind sharing the wealth and power, I guarantee every Lich in the land would love to see those living "rivals" put down. With so many spellcasters on your side, killing dragons and raising them as Dracoliches should be easy.

That sounds like an army!

[ImSAMazing]

Simulacrum/Wish shenanigans aside, the classic undead army could work. You don't need Gaes to convince a Wight to join you in taking down one of if not the single most powerful city in the world. Shadows and Wraiths can "recruit" even more allies. Vampires love being Lords, so you can bet they're in. If you don't mind sharing the wealth and power, I guarantee every Lich in the land would love to see those living "rivals" put down. With so many spellcasters on your side, killing dragons and raising them as Dracoliches should be easy.

That sounds like an army!
Great idea, but one problem. How am I going to spread the word that all Undeads should come to my place without letting Waterdeep know?

[Coidzor]

Great idea, but one problem. How am I going to spread the word that all Undeads should come to my place without letting Waterdeep know?

You can't. What you do, though, is make sure that the rumors getting out attract low level adventuring types until it's too late.

[Sagetim]

Allright peeps, it's time to take over Waterdeep, but you need an army. You are a lvl 20 Wizard, but you cant directly damage Waterdeep using your spells. You got all the spells, how are you going to do it?

I abuse fabricate and polymorph any object to tank their economy by flooding the market with piles of gold or what have you. Wait, are those even in 5th edition? I can't remember. But I'm going to tank their economy with magical shenanigans.

[Inevitability]

I abuse fabricate and polymorph any object to tank their economy by flooding the market with piles of gold or what have you. Wait, are those even in 5th edition? I can't remember. But I'm going to tank their economy with magical shenanigans.

True Polymorph would be able to do what you want. Fabricate can only create objects for a short while, and PaO is gone, though.

Also note that the gold created by it will disappear in an AMF or with a Dispel Magic, and detects as magical.

[SharkForce]

True Polymorph would be able to do what you want. Fabricate can only create objects for a short while, and PaO is gone, though.

Also note that the gold created by it will disappear in an AMF or with a Dispel Magic, and detects as magical.

fabricate lasts indefinitely, and polymorph any object has been turned into true polymorph.

[ImSAMazing]

fabricate lasts indefinitely, and polymorph any object has been turned into true polymorph.
True and true, Create is temporary.

[RazDelacroix]

Hmm, if I were of the very villainous inclination, I would devise a spell to awaken the greatest ally I could possibly think of in the goal to take over Waterdeep for reasons.

Anyone have an idea how to do a 5th edition version of a Genius Loci? Could we tweak the awaken spell to work on buildings and streets? It's late for me and I'm tossing those ideas on the hopes that I get a crazy dream of a tavern that's now walking in a drunken stupor, asking a brewery for more hops.

[Inevitability]

This talk about awakenings makes me wonder... how about an Elder Evil? Waterdeep is next to the sea. Just awaken the Leviathan and watch it getting swept away by a tsunami the size of several skyscrapers.

[KorvinStarmast]

This talk about awakenings makes me wonder... how about an Elder Evil? Waterdeep is next to the sea. Just awaken the Leviathan and watch it getting swept away by a tsunami the size of several skyscrapers. I think our army raising wizard wants to have a city left standing to use/rule/tax when this is all over. The tsunami tends to leave not much standing.

[ZenBear]

This talk about awakenings makes me wonder... how about an Elder Evil? Waterdeep is next to the sea. Just awaken the Leviathan and watch it getting swept away by a tsunami the size of several skyscrapers.
RELEASE THE KRAKEN!!!

I think our army raising wizard wants to have a city left standing to use/rule/tax when this is all over. The tsunami tends to leave not much standing.

Check the OP. There is no such stipulation.

[KorvinStarmast]

RELEASE THE KRAKEN!!!


Check the OP. There is no such stipulation.

yes, there is, and here are the words:

take over Waterdeep

Not ... Destroy Waterdeep.

"Take over" means something different from "destroy" in English?

Cheers< the Kraken, if he'll help, might be a good threat to help the Wizard take over Waterdeep, providing suitable tribute is offered ... :smallbiggrin:

[ZenBear]

yes, there is, and here are the words:


Not ... Destroy Waterdeep.

"Take over" means something different from "destroy" in English?

Cheers< the Kraken, if he'll help, might be a good threat to help the Wizard take over Waterdeep, providing suitable tribute is offered ... :smallbiggrin:

"Take over" means assuming control. You can assume control of a city by leveling it. Destruction is a perfectly valid strategy.

[KorvinStarmast]

"Take over" means assuming control. You can assume control of a city by leveling it. Destruction is a perfectly valid strategy.
If you level it, there isn't a city to take over.
There is rubble.
My reading of the mission requirement doesn't take as much effort and acrobatics with words as your does.

The task "take over" includes the implied task of "there remains something" when the take over action is complete.

Your "destruction" task includes an implied task of "rebuild from scratch" which takes far more effort than take over. (It is easier to destroy than it is to build).

No such stipulation of "rebuild from scratch" was in the OP as you demand.

The professor of rhetoric offers you a failing grade.

Warm Regards
KorvinStarmast
(Veteran of dealing with specious "argument" since before the Endless September began)

[ZenBear]

If you level it, there isn't a city to take over.
There is rubble.
My reading of the mission requirement doesn't take as much effort and acrobatics with words as your does.

The task "take over" includes the implied task of "there remains something" when the take over action is complete.

Your "destruction" task includes an implied task of "rebuild from scratch" which takes far more effort than take over. (It is easier to destroy than it is to build).

No such stipulation of "rebuild from scratch" was in the OP as you demand.

The professor of rhetoric offers you a failing grade.

Warm Regards
KorvinStarmast
(Veteran of dealing with specious "argument" since before the Endless September began)

No need to rebuild. No acrobatics required. Break it, kill the owners, now it's yours.

[Envyus]

No need to rebuild. No acrobatics required. Break it, kill the owners, now it's yours.

Yes but that's a bad idea with no benifit. As Dr Eggman said, "Those idiots are destroying everything, how am I supposed to take over the city and build the Eggman Empire if there is no City!" Pretty much you can't take over Waterdeep if there is nothing left of the city.

As mentioned make a deal with Hell is the best idea.

[SharkForce]

Yes but that's a bad idea with no benifit. As Dr Eggman said, "Those idiots are destroying everything, how am I supposed to take over the city and build the Eggman Empire if there is no City!" Pretty much you can't take over Waterdeep if there is nothing left of the city.

As mentioned make a deal with Hell is the best idea.

right, because clearly hell is a trustworthy ally that won't screw you over, and certainly would never take over waterdeep on their own if they were able to do that with any real expectation of victory.

[RazDelacroix]

Wait a tic... A city ruled over by overlypowered mysterious individuals, and citizen lives mean nothing in this whole equation? Okay. I think I have seen a similar set up before. In fact, prior guy won over an entire city of massively magical folk!

Ring up Orcus, tell him that the whole of Waterdeep has disrespected him. Worked for the city of Moil, it'll work here too!

Insert evil guffaws here.

[TheOOB]

There's just no way a single 20th level wizard could take Waterdeep unless he had artifact(s) or the help of a diety(s), and even then I'd bet on Waterdeep.

Now, if we're talking trying to take over Greyhawk that might be possible.

[KorvinStarmast]

There's just no way a single 20th level wizard could take Waterdeep unless he had artifact(s) or the help of a diety(s), and even then I'd bet on Waterdeep.

Now, if we're talking trying to take over Greyhawk that might be possible.
Depending upon how the DM plays masked lords of Waterdeep, there is some great potential for role playing a diplomacy/backstabbing campaign (and a few timely assassinations) wherein this 20th level wizard slowly but surely puts a deadly game of "musical chairs" into place and, in one last great back stab, knocks off the last two masked Lords (who thought he was helping them find out who was killing off the other Lords ... ) and then fill the power vacuum.

An intriguing game with very little combat ... and no need for an Army.