Becomeing a vampire

[keeper2161]

I have a player that just became a vampire but there are no defined player changes like the werebeasts. Do I just have to guess? I found a homebrew class but I don't like using homebrew classes. Anyone have suggestions?
http://www.enworld.org/forum/rpgdownloads.php?do=download&downloadid=1282

[Ninja_Prawn]

I have a player that just became a vampire but there are no defined player changes like the werebeasts. Do I just have to guess? I found a homebrew class but I don't like using homebrew classes. Anyone have suggestions?
http://www.enworld.org/forum/rpgdownloads.php?do=download&downloadid=1282

Check MM 295; note that it suggests the character in question might be better off as an NPC from now on (or until cured).

If you don't want to use the RAW (which are pretty thin and very unbalanced in this case), you have no choice but to homebrew. I'm sure someone on these fora will have made something... I'll check the compendium.

Ok, I haven't looked at any of these except the last one, so I make no promises as to their quality.

Vampire (Class) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?415437-PEACH-Vampire-Base-Class)
What looks like an open-ended discussion (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?376002-A-player-of-mine-wants-to-be-a-vampire-from-level-1-help!)
Half-Vampire (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?418341-Necromancer-Class)
Strigoi (WiP) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?429831-Strigoi-Race)

[Shining Wrath]

MM has a box for PC's as vampires.

[keeper2161]

I didn't even see the box it so small and tucked away in a corner. Yeah it is pretty unblanced. It also doesn't specify about the legendary actions or lair options.

[Ralanr]

I didn't even see the box it so small and tucked away in a corner. Yeah it is pretty unblanced. It also doesn't specify about the legendary actions or lair options.

Probably because PC's weren't intended to get those.

[keeper2161]

Which I find odd because monster campaigns are really fun and pretty popular, at least at in my area.

[Inevitability]

Which I find odd because monster campaigns are really fun and pretty popular, at least at in my area.

I recommend refluffing normal races for that. I mean, in-game orcs, gnolls, and goblins are far less powerful than vampires, so it makes sense a vampire wouldn't be allowed in a monster campaign.

[Demonic Spoon]

Which I find odd because monster campaigns are really fun and pretty popular, at least at in my area.

Things like players-as-vampires is too niche to go in the Player's Handbook, and there's nothing PCs are supposed to need from the MM. WotC decided to go with the more average/traditional case of "Vampirism is a curse that a normal PC gets during an adventure and presumably tries to cure" rather than "Players want to start as and remain vampires".


That said, it wouldn't be too hard to homebrew a vampire race, whether you intended it to be balanced against other races or not. Remember that there's a homebrew forum here where people could help you with such things.

[Shining Wrath]

One PC that is a vampire while the others are not poses balance issues, which needs to be offset by DM in-game consequences. Also, being killed by a vampire results in a vampire spawn by RAW, unless the original vampire allows the spawn to drink from his / her blood.

[Ralanr]

It's funny how vampirism isn't seen as a curse anymore. Rather it's almost like a blessing.

Almost as annoying as Angels and demons having flexible alignments on a racial scale (a few good/bad demons/angels are fine. But having their entire race be as flexible as humans in morality bores me. Why would they be interested in humans if they had the same moral flexibility?)

People need to play the darker parts of angels more. The parts that smite cities for the greater good.

[Ninja_Prawn]

It's funny how vampirism isn't seen as a curse anymore. Rather it's almost like a blessing...

I blame the 90s. 90s kids are the primary drivers of pop culture now, and I don't think we ever really grew out of anti-heroes (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NinetiesAntiHero).


...People need to play the darker parts of angels more. The parts that smite cities for the greater good.

To anyone looking to play an angel, I strongly recommend you read Twain's The Mysterious Stranger. That's how you playing outsider!

[Millface]

One PC that is a vampire while the others are not poses balance issues, which needs to be offset by DM in-game consequences. Also, being killed by a vampire results in a vampire spawn by RAW, unless the original vampire allows the spawn to drink from his / her blood.

I think the downsides are pretty apparent. Once we got to ~15 I gave the party an opportunity to become vampires. They played their characters well, 4 of them said hell no, 2 said yes. Those two have to constantly check themselves to refuse their nature, a bad roll means an accidental murder, and the party has to deal with that. I told them from the onset that if the rest of the party doesn't want to deal anymore then they will have to retire to NPC status.

They've been in the group for a couple of months now, mostly over the initial cravings and they have a blood drive set up in Waterdeep, all clever stuff. They still can't go out in the daylight, but for them it was a fair trade to gain some boosts. All in all it hasn't changed the balance of my game at all, and has added more than a few interesting elements to the mix. 10/10, would vampire again.

The rest of the party isn't at all mad about the increased stats or the regen... they don't want to deal with the sunlight, running water, radiant weaknesses or the occasional urges to hunt living people. I feel like it balances itself.

*They don't get legendary/Lair Actions

[pibby]

Perhaps the PC vampire can just have some of the vampire traits and just get the other ones as feats. IIRC wotc does this with the deep gnomes; the PC deep gnomes have to get the Deep Gnome Magic feat while the NPC deep gnomes just come with it. Of course, this requires homebrewing.

[Ninja_Prawn]

10/10, would vampire again.

Love it.

Level 15 is probably the best time to become a vampire, given their CR in the MM. The advantages are easier to handle and their weaknesses easier to cover, and the rest of the party can be expected to handle NPC vampires in a fight if need be. If I ever do this (I think I'd like to at some point), I'd definitely make it a late-game twist, rather than something that was on the table from the start.

[Millface]

Love it.

Level 15 is probably the best time to become a vampire, given their CR in the MM. The advantages are easier to handle and their weaknesses easier to cover, and the rest of the party can be expected to handle NPC vampires in a fight if need be. If I ever do this (I think I'd like to at some point), I'd definitely make it a late-game twist, rather than something that was on the table from the start.

Definitely, I had made the last BBEG a tad overpowered and needed to offer up some boosts toward the end. Certainly not something I'd want to try from level 1. Balancing encounters that early with those boosts would be a serious nightmare.

Toward the end, when everything is powerful and my evil guys are usually classed and crafted with care, I allow all kinds of crazy stuff. That's the time for it, you know? Vampire? Sure! Want to True Polymorph into an adult dragon and still play? Sure! Balance in this game goes out the window at high levels anyway, may as well have some fun with it. It never ruined anything for me or broke my game.

Low level though it's pretty much impossible to do anything like that without totally destroying the campaign.

[Sigreid]

One PC that is a vampire while the others are not poses balance issues, which needs to be offset by DM in-game consequences. Also, being killed by a vampire results in a vampire spawn by RAW, unless the original vampire allows the spawn to drink from his / her blood.

Well, vampires also come with some really heavy disadvantages. It's really not optimal for an adventurer at all.

[Ninja_Prawn]

Well, vampires also come with some really heavy disadvantages. It's really not optimal for an adventurer at all.

Because, when offered the chance to sacrifice your soul for an eternal life filled with naught but hunger and misery, the first thing you have to ask yourself is: "does this choice optimise my adventuring capabilities or not?" :smalltongue:

[Millface]

Because, when offered the chance to sacrifice your soul for an eternal life filled with naught but hunger and misery, the first thing you have to ask yourself is: "does this choice optimise my adventuring capabilities or not?" :smalltongue:

LOL, oddly enough, for my characters it did. They two that said yes chose a power they knew was dark and corrupted, but they needed power. Easy way out/Do what needs done kind of thinking. One of them was my Warlock, and he already has enough trouble having sold his soul to a cambion that is always trying to make him do terrible things. At this point his character feels like a soulless, lifeless husk whose only saving grace is that maybe he'll help to save the world before he loses himself completely.

That's the kind of stuff I just can't get enough of.

[Slipperychicken]

Because, when offered the chance to sacrifice your soul for an eternal life filled with naught but hunger and misery, the first thing you have to ask yourself is: "does this choice optimise my adventuring capabilities or not?" :smalltongue:

Adventurers already made that choice, really. They just sort of eat non-perishable tripe and huddle in cold tents to save up for their next +1 bonus.

[Sigreid]

LOL, oddly enough, for my characters it did. They two that said yes chose a power they knew was dark and corrupted, but they needed power. Easy way out/Do what needs done kind of thinking. One of them was my Warlock, and he already has enough trouble having sold his soul to a cambion that is always trying to make him do terrible things. At this point his character feels like a soulless, lifeless husk whose only saving grace is that maybe he'll help to save the world before he loses himself completely.

That's the kind of stuff I just can't get enough of.

That having to rest in your native soil could be a real hassle unless you're a homebody.

[Envyus]

It should be noted it's impossible to go straight to Vampire. As you become a Vampire Spawn first which is a slave for a actual vampire. Unless they let the spawn drink their blood. Full Vampireis tends to be super evil. As they lose their morality and most of their positive emotions turn into negative ones. AKA it's really not worth it. If your player still wants to become a Vampire, have the vampire that turns him just keep him as a spawn slave that should teach him a lesson. As that's what should happen anyway.



Also it should be noted that the MM says that PC's can't get legendary actions.

[keeper2161]

I found a homebrew vampire class that I like and am making him take at least one level in. If he want to become a more powerful vampire he has to level up further in the vampire class. I made him become a vampire skyrim style. Simply get bit and the next time he levels up he becomes a vampire. It also helps the vampire that bit him is dead.

[Slipperychicken]

It should be noted it's impossible to go straight to Vampire. As you become a Vampire Spawn first which is a slave for a actual vampire. Unless they let the spawn drink their blood. Full Vampireis tends to be super evil. As they lose their morality and most of their positive emotions turn into negative ones. AKA it's really not worth it. If your player still wants to become a Vampire, have the vampire that turns him just keep him as a spawn slave that should teach him a lesson. As that's what should happen anyway.


Capture a full vampire. Keeping him secure is the hard part*.
Restrain and "interrogate" (i.e. torture, threaten, roll charisma checks at) him until he agrees to make a PC into his thrall
Keep the thrall-PC restrained too
Confirm that the PC has been thrall'd
Kill the full vampire
Enjoy being a free vampire!



*Maybe keep him in a shed with sunlight all around him? Stick him in a courtyard so that anywhere he tries to go is a house which he needs permission to enter? Use a leomund's tiny hut spell to box him into a corner?

EDIT: Or you could just cast Suggestion on the vampire until he agrees to 'thrall your PC, then smite the vampire once the PC is thralled. Which makes more sense than trying to torture him.

[Logosloki]

It really depends on what level of content your players are up to and what level of cost-benefit that the player is interested in.

You could, for example go vampire-lite. Sunlight Sensitivity Plus (any sunlight, rather than direct sunlight), supernatural strength (unarmed strikes follow monk unarmed progression), a level of exhaustion for not sucking on the good stuff at least one a week (must feed on a living sapient being which has blood to remove a level of exhaustion, this feed drains a hit dice from the target), bite attack that restores health but requires the target to be grappled or prone or otherwise controlled, Darkvision if they don't have it already. Signamancy would be aversion to garlic, wild animals shy, guard animals hackle, lack of reflection, cold to touch and lack of pulse.

[Sigreid]

It's funny how vampirism isn't seen as a curse anymore. Rather it's almost like a blessing.

Almost as annoying as Angels and demons having flexible alignments on a racial scale (a few good/bad demons/angels are fine. But having their entire race be as flexible as humans in morality bores me. Why would they be interested in humans if they had the same moral flexibility?)

People need to play the darker parts of angels more. The parts that smite cities for the greater good.

I think the angel alignment in the MM is off. They should be LN since the description that they follow any order of their patron without hesitation, compassion or remorse. They're a bit like robots really.

[Millface]

I found a homebrew vampire class that I like and am making him take at least one level in. If he want to become a more powerful vampire he has to level up further in the vampire class. I made him become a vampire skyrim style. Simply get bit and the next time he levels up he becomes a vampire. It also helps the vampire that bit him is dead.

The two of six at my table to were turned did so unconventionally, it was an arc that had to do with the Sword of Kas and a keep that one of my players gained ownership of through the Deck of Many Things. This is a high level arc, not something to do at low levels.

The keep was held by a Vampire Lord who was in possession of the Sword, upon removing him and communing with the Sword they learned that meditating on the Sword while in the keep for five days would turn them if they wished. There were progressively harder saves each night, they barely survived the endeavor.

The Warlock in the group keeps both coffins in his demi-plane for resting purposes. It's a fixed place, so it works, and it can be accessed from anywhere. Was a pretty solid idea, I was impressed. At first the limitations threw them off guard, but as I suspected my players were more than up to snuff.

[Ralanr]

I think the angel alignment in the MM is off. They should be LN since the description that they follow any order of their patron without hesitation, compassion or remorse. They're a bit like robots really.

I'd be fine even with that. I just dislike it when angels and demons are played white and black.

Granted I'm just tired of not evil demons. After meeting a plane full of neutral imps I kinda had enough (homebrew campaign so it's within reason. Though the good paladin/wizard having an ash like demon familiar was annoying).

[Ninja_Prawn]

Granted I'm just tired of not evil demons. After meeting a plane full of neutral imps I kinda had enough.

"Aren't you guys supposed to be evil?"

"Well yeah, but we can't really be bothered with all that anymore. Like, what's even the point of good and evil, man? We'd rather just crash here and listen to Nirvana all day."

[Ralanr]

"Aren't you guys supposed to be evil?"

"Well yeah, but we can't really be bothered with all that anymore. Like, what's even the point of good and evil, man? We'd rather just crash here and listen to Nirvana all day."

Oh if only we could give + to posts. XD

[Jeebs]

What about re-fluffing the Warlock? The Fiend's temporary HP could represent drinking blood.

[Envyus]

I think the angel alignment in the MM is off. They should be LN since the description that they follow any order of their patron without hesitation, compassion or remorse. They're a bit like robots really.

Uh no it does not say that anywhere.

This is what it says


Angels are formed from the astral essence of benevolent gods and are thus divine beings of great power and foresight.
Angels act out the will of their gods with tireless devotion. Even chaotic good deities command lawful good angels, knowing that the angels' dedication to order best allows them to fulfill divine commands. An angel follows a single driving purpose, as decreed by its deity. However, an angel is incapable of following commands that stray from the path of law and good.

So no Lawful good fits them perfectly. The only negative thing about them is that they can be rather arrogant and stubborn.